Hello,
Looking for recommendations for aftermarket headers for my 67 GT500. Just discovered the set that is on the car now (I have had it for a few weeks) is incorrect for the model year and has some serious leaks. I am aware that FPA makes a decent set up, but could use this forums input on alternatives.
Thank you,
K
FPA
Fitment on these FPA units?Require much massaging?
It depends on what you're looking for. Short or long tube.I am running the Hooker 6114. They needed absolutely no hammering what so ever. The down side was the sacrifice of a little bit of ground clearance. I would stay away from the large tube as they often don't clear reinforcements or towers that have leaned in a bit.
I assume you're aware that headers are also not a factory item? I have some pictures if need be.
Quote from: The Going Thing on May 27, 2020, 08:20:09 PM
It depends on what you're looking for. Short or long tube.I am running the Hooker 6114. They needed absolutely no hammering what so ever. The down side was the sacrifice of a little bit of ground clearance. I would stay away from the large tube as they often don't clear reinforcements or towers that have leaned in a bit.
I assume you're aware that headers are also not a factory item? I have some pictures if need be.
The Hookers are more then adequate and actually a good choice. It's more the angling down of the collectors that gives the appearance of low clearance.
If you had the time and can weld you could mess with changing the angle of the collector?
The good thing is they do fit out of the box. Stan's headers have had some complaints against the flanges not fitting right.
Tri-y's give up power. Period. If you don't care being down on power, then run iron CJ manifolds rather then tri-y's.
I use the "old" rule of thumb (because I'm old most likely) that the inside diameter of the tube should match the outside diameter of the exhaust valve. With that in mind, the Hookers are the right tube size.
2" tubes are likely torque reducers on an FE.
The coolest pipes are the Hooker Super Comps. They are individual tubes, thin metal (for weight savings), are 2-1/8" tubes and hang down and from the front view, look like a gorilla's knuckles hanging down. They have slip collectors.
They will scrape and are loud and leak because of the slip tubes. But cool? Just plain sick! ;)
Doug, I guess the 1.76 exhaust valve was justified with the new engine so the Hookers breath correctly. <snicker> I had never heard that correlation between primary tube and exhaust valve size before. I can't find the flow sheet from the my Edelbrocks that Keith Black ported, but I think the flow on the exhaust side was in the 220 CFM range.
There was a trade off Vs. the C6AE-R heads I had on the 428. Even with bowl clean up, unshrouding and the 2.09 1.65 CJ valve the heads had more port velocity on the lower end of the RPM range.
The ported Edelbrock heads seem to run in the 3200-6000 rpm range so it moved the torque band. In some respects it keeps one from smoking the tires every time you accelerate too hard in the first two gears.
Quote from: The Going Thing on May 28, 2020, 12:29:55 AM
Doug, I guess the 1.76 exhaust valve was justified with the new engine so the Hookers breath correctly. <snicker> I had never heard that correlation between primary tube and exhaust valve size before. I can't find the flow sheet from the my Edelbrocks that Keith Black ported, but I think the flow on the exhaust side was in the 220 CFM range.
There was a trade off Vs. the C6AE-R heads I had on the 428. Even with bowl clean up, unshrouding and the 2.09 1.65 CJ valve the heads had more port velocity on the lower end of the RPM range.
The ported Edelbrock heads seem to run in the 3200-6000 rpm range so it moved the torque band. In some respects it keeps one from smoking the tires every time you accelerate too hard in the first two gears.
I think that the valve size is as much a tuning thing as anything. With iron heads the dyno sheets I saw the engine already had 450lb-ft in the 1,500 to 2,000 rpm range and was pretty much flat all the way to almost 6,000 rpm's.
I'm thinking about a set of Edelbrock heads. I already have a set of List 3300 and 3301 carbs. I already dimpled the roof on the '68. I don't want to do that again. ;)
My engine builder likes them and you run around Dallas terrorizing the locals with them so that wakes me up in the middle of the night. I hate that.
I can believe you never heard the tube size correlation. Most of us who know that are already dead. You weren't born yet.
My SB AFR heads exhausts flow in that vicinity. 210 to 215. Those are 1.60 valves and I'm using 1-3/4" long tube headers.
The only engine that I know of that contradicts this but only just a bit is the Cleveland in my Pantera.
The bottom is a 357 but the top uses A3 Motorsport heads with a 1.71 exhaust and 2" primary headers with 180 configuration.
Those exhausts only flow around 180 AND that is with a radically raised exhaust port.
I put this all down to tuning the engine to a particular rpm range. In the case of a BB "Mustang" the chassis is more of a limiting factor and determines more then it should.
ANYTHING other then stock is going to have a drastic positive effect on power in that instance. Even tri-y's.
If anyone wants to use BB tri-y's, you won't be disappointed since ANY headers are better then ANY iron manifolds and you won't need to spend the rest of your life screwing with the engine configuration. Go for it BUT you ARE giving away power there. How much? Let's go to the dyno.
Quote from: The Going Thing on May 28, 2020, 12:29:55 AM
Doug, I guess the 1.76 exhaust valve was justified with the new engine so the Hookers breath correctly. <snicker> I had never heard that correlation between primary tube and exhaust valve size before. I can't find the flow sheet from the my Edelbrocks that Keith Black ported, but I think the flow on the exhaust side was in the 220 CFM range.
There was a trade off Vs. the C6AE-R heads I had on the 428. Even with bowl clean up, unshrouding and the 2.09 1.65 CJ valve the heads had more port velocity on the lower end of the RPM range.
The ported Edelbrock heads seem to run in the 3200-6000 rpm range so it moved the torque band. In some respects it keeps one from smoking the tires every time you accelerate too hard in the first two gears.
Wow, you must have had a very close relationship with Keith Black to get him to port aluminum Edelbrock FE heads, tell us about how you managed to get that done?
Quote from: 427hunter on May 28, 2020, 10:16:27 AM
Quote from: The Going Thing on May 28, 2020, 12:29:55 AM
Doug, I guess the 1.76 exhaust valve was justified with the new engine so the Hookers breath correctly. <snicker> I had never heard that correlation between primary tube and exhaust valve size before. I can't find the flow sheet from the my Edelbrocks that Keith Black ported, but I think the flow on the exhaust side was in the 220 CFM range.
There was a trade off Vs. the C6AE-R heads I had on the 428. Even with bowl clean up, unshrouding and the 2.09 1.65 CJ valve the heads had more port velocity on the lower end of the RPM range.
The ported Edelbrock heads seem to run in the 3200-6000 rpm range so it moved the torque band. In some respects it keeps one from smoking the tires every time you accelerate too hard in the first two gears.
Wow, you must have had a very close relationship with Keith Black to get him to port aluminum Edelbrock FE heads, tell us about how you managed to get that done?
Keith? I thought he said Clint? Sorry, my hearing isn't what it used to be. What? Did you say something? Open side pipes, you know?
I bought a set of shorty FPA headers. I had to cut the corners off both engine isolators. I had to cut the corner of the engine block off at the lower driver's side because I did not want to dent the powder coated headers. I had to hammer the lid of the starter bendix cover and beat the tar out of the header tube to get 1/8" clearance between that tube and the starter bendix.
Otherwise they fit fine.
I called Stan to tell him the fit was off. Maybe my set got made on a Monday by a trainee? He told me that my low mileage unmolested one owner car and engine block were all out of whack and proceeded to get really nasty before I finally hung up on him in disgust.
Quote from: 557 on May 27, 2020, 05:51:01 PM
Fitment on these FPA units?Require much massaging?
Last year I installed a set of JBA shorty headers on a GT500 convertible with a stroked 427. Compared to FPA the difference was night and day. The JBA headers are perfectly fitted. They are stainless so no coating is needed. The H pipe from JBA is also a masterpiece of fit and finish. They also offer an X pipe if you prefer. Outstanding product. Cleared the power steering with no drop bracket needed.
Quote from: shelbydoug on May 28, 2020, 10:39:33 AM
Quote from: 427hunter on May 28, 2020, 10:16:27 AM
Quote from: The Going Thing on May 28, 2020, 12:29:55 AM
Doug, I guess the 1.76 exhaust valve was justified with the new engine so the Hookers breath correctly. <snicker> I had never heard that correlation between primary tube and exhaust valve size before. I can't find the flow sheet from the my Edelbrocks that Keith Black ported, but I think the flow on the exhaust side was in the 220 CFM range.
There was a trade off Vs. the C6AE-R heads I had on the 428. Even with bowl clean up, unshrouding and the 2.09 1.65 CJ valve the heads had more port velocity on the lower end of the RPM range.
The ported Edelbrock heads seem to run in the 3200-6000 rpm range so it moved the torque band. In some respects it keeps one from smoking the tires every time you accelerate too hard in the first two gears.
Wow, you must have had a very close relationship with Keith Black to get him to port aluminum Edelbrock FE heads, tell us about how you managed to get that done?
Keith? I thought he said Clint? Sorry, my hearing isn't what it used to be. What? Did you say something? Open side pipes, you know?
It's just short of impossible to get Keith Black to port FE Edelbrock aluminum heads, especially since he was dead before the heads were ever made. Just digging the guy up, and bringing him back to life must have been a ton of work, then to be able to convince him to port heads - WOW !
Quote from: Royce Peterson on May 28, 2020, 10:40:16 AM
I bought a set of shorty FPA headers. I had to cut the corners off both engine isolators. I had to cut the corner of the engine block off at the lower driver's side because I did not want to dent the powder coated headers. I had to hammer the lid of the starter bendix cover and beat the tar out of the header tube to get 1/8" clearance between that tube and the starter bendix.
Otherwise they fit fine.
I called Stan to tell him the fit was off. Maybe my set got made on a Monday by a trainee? He told me that my low mileage unmolested one owner car and engine block were all out of whack and proceeded to get really nasty before I finally hung up on him in disgust.
Quote from: 557 on May 27, 2020, 05:51:01 PM
Fitment on these FPA units?Require much massaging?
I tried to buy a set of headers from him. I called to get a price since he had removed prices from his advertising. I asked him if I needed to do something with the equalizer bar.
Then he got nasty. He told me I was an a ss h ole. Use a hydraulic clutch like 'EVERYBODY" else was.
He didn't care that it wasn't a street rod and said that "all you Shelby guys are a ss h oles and I won't sell you a set of headers" and hung up.
What are you people who say he is a great guy all S&M folks? I would have told him to go screw himself but I'm sure he knew that and does, since no one else will and that's why he hung up.
Kiss his a ss if you want to, I won't.
Quote from: Royce Peterson on May 28, 2020, 10:43:20 AM
Last year I installed a set of JBA shorty headers on a GT500 convertible with a stroked 427. Compared to FPA the difference was night and day. The JBA headers are perfectly fitted. They are stainless so no coating is needed. The H pipe from JBA is also a masterpiece of fit and finish. They also offer an X pipe if you prefer. Outstanding product. Cleared the power steering with no drop bracket needed.
Now that sounds like a header to check into ;). I was not aware that JBA offered ready built FE headers for for 67-70 Mustang/Shelby.
Quote from: Royce Peterson on May 28, 2020, 10:43:20 AM
Last year I installed a set of JBA shorty headers on a GT500 convertible with a stroked 427. Compared to FPA the difference was night and day. The JBA headers are perfectly fitted. They are stainless so no coating is needed. The H pipe from JBA is also a masterpiece of fit and finish. They also offer an X pipe if you prefer. Outstanding product. Cleared the power steering with no drop bracket needed.
+1 to Bob's statement. Do you have a link?
I went with FPA and MagnFlow 2.5 w/Tru-X. However, I did not like how the exhaust system hung with the Tru-X, so removed it.
Had to add some 304 stainless and had the system TIG welded. Looks good, tucks nice and sounds great.
Ron
^^^Same system on my KR. Like yours, it took some modification/custom work to get it to tuck up properly, but I like the result...and the sound.
The bottom of the bellhousing is closer to the ground than the headers at the collector.
Nice and sanitary. I bet it sounds good too.
Doug, I have known Stan Johnson ( FPA ) for over 45 yrs....I would say your assessment of him is spot on ! 8)
Quote from: 427hunter on May 28, 2020, 10:48:02 AM
Quote from: shelbydoug on May 28, 2020, 10:39:33 AM
Quote from: 427hunter on May 28, 2020, 10:16:27 AM
Quote from: The Going Thing on May 28, 2020, 12:29:55 AM
Doug, I guess the 1.76 exhaust valve was justified with the new engine so the Hookers breath correctly. <snicker> I had never heard that correlation between primary tube and exhaust valve size before. I can't find the flow sheet from the my Edelbrocks that Keith Black ported, but I think the flow on the exhaust side was in the 220 CFM range.
There was a trade off Vs. the C6AE-R heads I had on the 428. Even with bowl clean up, unshrouding and the 2.09 1.65 CJ valve the heads had more port velocity on the lower end of the RPM range.
The ported Edelbrock heads seem to run in the 3200-6000 rpm range so it moved the torque band. In some respects it keeps one from smoking the tires every time you accelerate too hard in the first two gears.
Wow, you must have had a very close relationship with Keith Black to get him to port aluminum Edelbrock FE heads, tell us about how you managed to get that done?
Keith? I thought he said Clint? Sorry, my hearing isn't what it used to be. What? Did you say something? Open side pipes, you know?
It's just short of impossible to get Keith Black to port FE Edelbrock aluminum heads, especially since he was dead before the heads were ever made. Just digging the guy up, and bringing him back to life must have been a ton of work, then to be able to convince him to port heads - WOW !
You really are an idiot. Keith Black Racing Engines did the porting work. Keith Black has been dead for the better part of 30 years. However, the business was ran by his son for some time. You can return to your regularly scheduled wife and dog beatings while attempting to make your miserable existence tolerable with daily over-indulgences in alcohol.
I don't drink, but there is always time to start. It would explain why I see dead guys all the time. I ignore them though. They don't know nothin'. They're dead for a reason. 8)
When we placed the order the headers and H pipe shipped the same day. If you get the headers you will want the H pipe - it uses modern style ball connections with no gaskets. Very high end system compared to the old style junk.
For some reason they are not listed on the JBA website but if you call them you can place the order.
Quote from: Bob Gaines on May 28, 2020, 12:41:01 PM
Quote from: Royce Peterson on May 28, 2020, 10:43:20 AM
Last year I installed a set of JBA shorty headers on a GT500 convertible with a stroked 427. Compared to FPA the difference was night and day. The JBA headers are perfectly fitted. They are stainless so no coating is needed. The H pipe from JBA is also a masterpiece of fit and finish. They also offer an X pipe if you prefer. Outstanding product. Cleared the power steering with no drop bracket needed.
Now that sounds like a header to check into ;). I was not aware that JBA offered ready built FE headers for for 67-70 Mustang/Shelby.
With advancement in aftermarket, cylinder head options well designed headers have become more critical. Unfortunately, reliable, published dyno tests are lacking. On my build struggle with choices. Budget dictated a 3rd set of soon to be asphalt assaulted, SuperComps. Would be interested in first hand feedback on Kooks and Stainless Works products.
Quote from: The Going Thing on May 29, 2020, 01:17:23 AM
Quote from: 427hunter on May 28, 2020, 10:48:02 AM
Quote from: shelbydoug on May 28, 2020, 10:39:33 AM
Quote from: 427hunter on May 28, 2020, 10:16:27 AM
Quote from: The Going Thing on May 28, 2020, 12:29:55 AM
Doug, I guess the 1.76 exhaust valve was justified with the new engine so the Hookers breath correctly. <snicker> I had never heard that correlation between primary tube and exhaust valve size before. I can't find the flow sheet from the my Edelbrocks that Keith Black ported, but I think the flow on the exhaust side was in the 220 CFM range.
There was a trade off Vs. the C6AE-R heads I had on the 428. Even with bowl clean up, unshrouding and the 2.09 1.65 CJ valve the heads had more port velocity on the lower end of the RPM range.
The ported Edelbrock heads seem to run in the 3200-6000 rpm range so it moved the torque band. In some respects it keeps one from smoking the tires every time you accelerate too hard in the first two gears.
Wow, you must have had a very close relationship with Keith Black to get him to port aluminum Edelbrock FE heads, tell us about how you managed to get that done?
Keith? I thought he said Clint? Sorry, my hearing isn't what it used to be. What? Did you say something? Open side pipes, you know?
It's just short of impossible to get Keith Black to port FE Edelbrock aluminum heads, especially since he was dead before the heads were ever made. Just digging the guy up, and bringing him back to life must have been a ton of work, then to be able to convince him to port heads - WOW !
You really are an idiot. Keith Black Racing Engines did the porting work. Keith Black has been dead for the better part of 30 years. However, the business was ran by his son for some time. You can return to your regularly scheduled wife and dog beatings while attempting to make your miserable existence tolerable with daily over-indulgences in alcohol.
I'll give Ken a call and ask him about your port work, the old man used to say an FE was only good for a boat anchor. When did you have the port work done? I can get you a copy of the flow sheet, they keep all those records.
Quote from: vtgt500 on May 29, 2020, 09:37:13 AM
With advancement in aftermarket, cylinder head options well designed headers have become more critical. Unfortunately, reliable, published dyno tests are lacking. On my build struggle with choices. Budget dictated a 3rd set of soon to be asphalt assaulted, SuperComps. Would be interested in first hand feedback on Kooks and Stainless Works products.
I can't recall EVER seeing a dyno test just for headers but that could go a long way to illustrating the value of various exhaust modifications and improvements?
Must dyno pulls I've read use the shops "dyno headers". God knows what kind of trash those things are?
When I was looking for SB heads, I came across a comparison test of heads. The problem was that the 9th graders who did it used a cam that was not complimentary to the flow of the heads. So there wasn't much point to the entire thing.
Going from 180 intake flow on iron heads to 300 on aluminum heads showed no improvements in power. It was basically an RV type cam they tested with.
Dummer then dirt.
In the "old days", 427 Cobras came with these Thunderbird cast iron exhaust manifolds.
The thought at the time was that S/C type exhausts were worth something like 100hp.
That might have been the conclusion after drinking a six pack of Piels shorties? I'm not sure? Needless to say, tube headers help quite a bit.
The thing now in the digital age where beer doesn't help the dyno, everything is tunable.
You should consider though that by playing with the header configurations in attempts to maximize power, you need to constantly match cam profiles and inductions.
On EFI cars, guys spend maybe thousands of dollars to get the last 10hp out of the engine.
On a big block Mustang, good luck with that.
Before I went to the Super Comps, I'd try Doug's 180s. Either way you need to remove the power steering.
The Doug's are big tube and cross over behind the oil pan drop. Much more streetable then the Hooker's which are really for the drag strip with wheel stand starts.
Quote from: shelbydoug on May 29, 2020, 12:05:04 PM
Before I went to the Super Comps, I'd try Doug's 180s.
The Doug's are big tube and cross over behind the oil pan drop.
Not to quibble, but the Doug's cylinder #4 & #8 crossover header really isn't a true 180° header; but it's still a good product. :)
Scott.
Quote from: pbf777 on May 29, 2020, 02:36:05 PM
Quote from: shelbydoug on May 29, 2020, 12:05:04 PM
Before I went to the Super Comps, I'd try Doug's 180s.
The Doug's are big tube and cross over behind the oil pan drop.
Not to quibble, but the Doug's cylinder #4 & #8 crossover header really isn't a true 180° header; but it's still a good product. :)
Scott.
The only thing with 180's is that they TEND to be tuned for one rpm peak.
I have that with my Pantera and as it works out 6,500 seems to be the peak?
With a big cube engine, I don't know where you are at with peak? It might work out since I'd suspect that with something like 468 cubes at 7,500 rpm, you might need to go to a full tube chassis to keep this thing from shaking itself apart in short order?
Again, it would be nice to see the specific "Mustang" BB headers tested on a dyno to help make the decision. Is it worth an extra $5,000, to get another 25 hp out of the exhausts?
I'd wager that the gorilla knuckles are probably as extreme as you might practically want to go? You won't need power steering because you won't be going around any corners anyway.
Quote from: shelbydoug on May 29, 2020, 03:19:49 PM
I'd wager that the gorilla knuckles are probably as extreme as you might practically want to go? You won't need power steering because you won't be going around any corners anyway.
True......... but this should be because the front tires are in the air! :o
And if one is stuck driving "around town", with your fat front tired (we had F60's), over-weighted big block monster with no power assisted steering, you learn to lean on the steering wheel hard, and let out the clutch, and the wheel turns! ::)
Aaaah...........the fun!
Scott.
Quote from: pbf777 on May 29, 2020, 07:48:33 PM
Quote from: shelbydoug on May 29, 2020, 03:19:49 PM
I'd wager that the gorilla knuckles are probably as extreme as you might practically want to go? You won't need power steering because you won't be going around any corners anyway.
True......... but this should be because the front tires are in the air! :o
And if one is stuck driving "around town", with your fat front tired (we had F60's), over-weighted big block monster with no power assisted steering, you learn to lean on the steering wheel hard, and let out the clutch, and the wheel turns! ::)
Aaaah...........the fun!
Scott.
I live on a mountain. The road has no guardrails.
The Mounties take a dim view of wheelie bars.
Quote from: shelbydoug on May 29, 2020, 08:34:37 PM
I live on a mountain. The road has no guardrails.
The Mounties take a dim view of wheelie bars.
In the past when I rode my KZ1000 & CB1100F (rather aggressively) on the Blue Ridge Parkway, I was amused by the "guardrail" along the drops; these consisting of a long length of four-by-four lumber laying horizontal stacked upon a short piece positioned at the joints below thereby providing a approximately a twelve inch height. This appearing just sufficient to provide some pitch if you engaged it so as to be sure you to acquire some air so as to clear edge of the crevasse ensuring a long tumble down. :o
Oh, and "Wheelie-Bars" are for little girls! ::)
Scott.
Quote from: Royce Peterson on May 29, 2020, 09:24:49 AM
When we placed the order the headers and H pipe shipped the same day. If you get the headers you will want the H pipe - it uses modern style ball connections with no gaskets. Very high end system compared to the old style junk.
For some reason they are not listed on the JBA website but if you call them you can place the order.
Do you have any pictures?
Sorry I did not take any pics of the exhaust system. Here's the car in my shop.
Quote from: Royce Peterson on May 30, 2020, 11:33:04 PM
Sorry I did not take any pics of the exhaust system. Here's the car in my shop.
Do you have a part #?
JBA doesn't even have their own website, and those under Hedman or Pertronix JBA pages show nothing at all.
Quote from: pbf777 on May 30, 2020, 12:54:32 PM
Quote from: shelbydoug on May 29, 2020, 08:34:37 PM
I live on a mountain. The road has no guardrails.
The Mounties take a dim view of wheelie bars.
In the past when I rode my KZ1000 & CB1100F (rather aggressively) on the Blue Ridge Parkway, I was amused by the "guardrail" along the drops; these consisting of a long length of four-by-four lumber laying horizontal stacked upon a short piece positioned at the joints below thereby providing a approximately a twelve inch height. This appearing just sufficient to provide some pitch if you engaged it so as to be sure you to acquire some air so as to clear edge of the crevasse ensuring a long tumble down. :o
Oh, and "Wheelie-Bars" are for little girls! ::)
Scott.
Those girls WERE NOT LITTLE. Wheelie bars makes them flash. Those were pretty big.
The bikes are annoying. They just make sport for us. They can be tough to hit firing from a tri-pod at a thousand yards but that's the fun.
QuoteSorry I did not take any pics of the exhaust system. Here's the car in my shop.
What's the other car???
TOB
You can see a 1914 Model T Ford on the left and a 1915 Model T Ford behind the guy in the white shirt. Behind those two is my 1968 W code Cougar GT-E. Two other cars are behind the camera.
Sorry I don't have any record of the part numbers ordered.
Quote from: TOBKOB on May 31, 2020, 12:06:48 PM
QuoteSorry I did not take any pics of the exhaust system. Here's the car in my shop.
What's the other car???
TOB
If anyone is really interested in the jba shorty headers I can text Jay and ask him about them.
Roy
Quote from: TA Coupe on May 31, 2020, 01:42:07 PM
If anyone is really interested in the jba shorty headers I can text Jay and ask him about them.
Roy
Ask him about "the best set of 67 GT500 headers ever made" while you are at it. Something like 40 years ago he was going to build them for his own car.
They are according to him, "big tube/long tube" headers. I've never seen them but that doesn't mean he never made them? ;)
Quote from: TA Coupe on May 31, 2020, 01:42:07 PM
If anyone is really interested in the jba shorty headers I can text Jay and ask him about them.
Roy
Are the stainless FE shortys and H pipes still being made ?
Quote from: shelbydoug on May 31, 2020, 07:27:59 PM
Quote from: TA Coupe on May 31, 2020, 01:42:07 PM
If anyone is really interested in the jba shorty headers I can text Jay and ask him about them.
Roy
Ask him about "the best set of 67 GT500 headers ever made" while you are at it. Something like 40 years ago he was going to build them for his own car.
They are according to him, "big tube/long tube" headers. I've never seen them but that doesn't mean he never made them? ;)
Jay made some for his car but I don't think he made many more . I don't think he was running PS on his car ether which effects what you can do with header design.I had him make me a set based on what he made for himself.
Quote from: Bob Gaines on May 31, 2020, 09:51:09 PM
Quote from: shelbydoug on May 31, 2020, 07:27:59 PM
Quote from: TA Coupe on May 31, 2020, 01:42:07 PM
If anyone is really interested in the jba shorty headers I can text Jay and ask him about them.
Roy
Ask him about "the best set of 67 GT500 headers ever made" while you are at it. Something like 40 years ago he was going to build them for his own car.
They are according to him, "big tube/long tube" headers. I've never seen them but that doesn't mean he never made them? ;)
Jay made some for his car but I don't think he made many more . I don't think he was running PS on his car ether which effects what you can do with header design.I had him make me a set based on what he made for himself.
I had been dealing with JBA over issues with the SB set of headers I bought from them and while I was talking to them (a series of calls) I asked about the headers.
They got back to me and referred me to the set of shorties they had in the catalog at that point.
To me, there is a way of dealing with the power steering ram including not needing an extension so I feel blaming it all on the power steering is a cop out and a panic attack on the part of the header manufacturer?
The set on the Supersnake was built on the car and couldn't come off without hacking them off. Maybe that's just the real reality of the situation?
Is the finished result of J's likely to be a nightmare to install? Likely but that's not what I was asking Bittle about.
I would assume, since there are only so many alternatives on where to run the primaries, that they would likely look like the set that you had on your 67 500?
How do you bolt them to the heads? I think with some type of velcro? ;)
There just is not a perfect solution to the FE/Mustang header dilemma. Anything will be better then an iron exhaust manifold.
Even in it's heyday, the 427 Ford was a 450hp/450ft-lb engine. RPM's were limited by valve spring technology. So tales of 800hp, 8,000rpm 427's to me are just fairy tales anyway.
I'm just using the Hookers and occasional grumble over the lack of perfection but "that's just the way it is?" ;D
Has anyone ever tried having their stock exhaust extrude honed?
https://www.extrudehoneafm.com/industries/automotive/
Roy
Quote from: TA Coupe on June 01, 2020, 07:42:35 PM
Has anyone ever tried having their stock exhaust extrude honed?
https://www.extrudehoneafm.com/industries/automotive/
Roy
I have wondered if that would make much of a difference. Dyno results would be best, and hard to come by.
I would liken that to breathing thru a garden hose vs a straw, not nearly the same .
Quote from: TA Coupe on June 01, 2020, 07:42:35 PM
Has anyone ever tried having their stock exhaust extrude honed?
https://www.extrudehoneafm.com/industries/automotive/
Roy
$700.
Quote from: 427heaven on June 01, 2020, 08:41:38 PM
I would liken that to breathing thru a garden hose vs a straw, not nearly the same .
It all depends on what somebody is looking for. I'll bet if it were ceramic coated inside once it's extrude honed it would probably pick up round 30 horsepower.
Roy
I texted Jay tonight so we will see what he has to say.
Roy
Quote from: TA Coupe on June 02, 2020, 02:04:52 AM
Quote from: 427heaven on June 01, 2020, 08:41:38 PM
I would liken that to breathing thru a garden hose vs a straw, not nearly the same .
It all depends on what somebody is looking for. I'll bet if it were ceramic coated inside once it's extrude honed it would probably pick up round 30 horsepower.
Roy
Not sure many of are looking to build a real racing engine at this point. 30 would be a nice bump.
Quote from: TA Coupe on June 02, 2020, 02:06:01 AM
I texted Jay tonight so we will see what he has to say.
Roy
He probably still has something to say but I thought Jay sold JBA some years ago?
My guess would be 95 percent of 428 owners don't need any more help then what came original on their cars. For the few of us that require much more then what came stock, it is a balance between cost vs reward. Is spending 1000- 1800 rewarding to get those performance gains? Different answer to each owner. I would rather pay 300- 400$ and put a performance carb on instead maybe much less if you have some friends that can hook you up to get that extra 20 - 30 HP. ;)
I heard back from Jay today and this is what he texted me:
Hi Roy,
Good to here from you. Thanks for the tip. That is a great question.
Purchase JBA 6655S it is stainless TRI-Y design for CJ not a shorty. Order same part number with H not S for the bolt up H-pipe. They are available on JBA Speed Shop .com for 730 and 210. Many tests make great power. Major good ground clearance. PS bracket required. Factory Z bar fits many happy customers. Thick 3/8 flange can be close to reinforced shock towers and can be trimmed if needed. J.
I have always known JBA products to be of highest quality.
https://jbaspeedshop.com/i-22725929-67-70-mustang-390-427-428cj.html?ref=search:https%3A%2F%2Fjbaspeedshop.com%2Fsearch.html%3Fq%3DJBA%2B6655S
https://jbaspeedshop.com/i-22726071-h-pipe-for-6655s-390-427.html?ref=search:https%3A%2F%2Fjbaspeedshop.com%2Fsearch.html%3Fq%3DJBE%252F6655Sh
Wonder where Stan got his design? ::)
Not shortys but allowing equalizer bar and being stainless are big pluses.
Not hanging down too low and dragging the biggest upside of all.
Thanks Roy
Those are extremely cool looking
Hello,
0100 now has the JBA SS Tri-Y headers on it. This is the best photo that I have right now that gives you an idea of how well the headers and the exhaust system tuck up to the underside of the car. As you can see, the ground clearance is really nice.
Thanks,
Eric
Please remind me the difference between the PI & CJ Bolt pattern. Is just one extra bolt on the end port?
Quote from: 67411F--0100-ENG. on June 03, 2020, 02:00:58 AM
Hello,
0100 now has the JBA SS Tri-Y headers on it. This is the best photo that I have right now that gives you an idea of how well the headers and the exhaust system tuck up to the underside of the car. As you can see, the ground clearance is really nice.
Thanks,
Eric
Your traction bars hang down lower.
How was installation? Sound?
Since you took off other headers, was there a noticeable power difference?
Hello,
I believe CJ heads have 16 bolts and the C7AE-A GT390 heads are 14 bolts (the middle two ports only have 3 bolts). Installation was time consuming, but not too bad. We used bolts with 5/16" heads. Quality is excellent. We did not have to ding them anywhere for additional clearance. I think they sound nice in combination with the rest of the exhaust. This was part of a complete engine swap, so I cannot compare power levels. The engine was dynoed with these headers installed. The engine made great power and I do not believe the headers hindered the power production.
Thanks,
Eric
Quote from: TA Coupe on June 02, 2020, 08:57:10 PM
I heard back from Jay today and this is what he texted me:
Hi Roy,
Good to here from you. Thanks for the tip. That is a great question.
Purchase JBA 6655S it is stainless TRI-Y design for CJ not a shorty. Order same part number with H not S for the bolt up H-pipe. They are available on JBA Speed Shop .com for 730 and 210. Many tests make great power. Major good ground clearance. PS bracket required. Factory Z bar fits many happy customers. Thick 3/8 flange can be close to reinforced shock towers and can be trimmed if needed. J.
That is what I was told also.
I can't argue that the system doesn't look good on the car, it does. However, you didn't ask him if this design is what he made for his car? I don't think so though?
I think J's answer is for an audience of one, JBA, not me or you? ;)
The H-pipe clearly states that it is constructed of 409 stainless. That is the material that by design, develops a brown oxidized coating on it under normal use.
I didn't see the material of the headers stated but I may have missed that?
Personally I'd want the 409 ceramic coated. I think I like their "titanium" color the best but the flat black would look nice as well.
Tri-y's are a practical solution to a street car and no-one can prove hp unless they dyno the same engine with various header designs.
The question always was what is the best combination of power and practical.
Quote from: 2112 on June 03, 2020, 02:03:01 AM
Please remind me the difference between the PI & CJ Bolt pattern. Is just one extra bolt on the end port?
They are the same other than the front and rear upper flange bolt. All headers for the 14-16 bolt patterns have incorporated the ability to use with the "GT" head pattern as well. My Hookers 6114 headers do.