https://www.ebay.com/itm/1970-Ford-Mustang-Shelby-GT500/233627091720?hash=item3665428308:g:4YwAAOSw8lle8OyK
Barn Find. Easy restoration? Theft recovery?
No VIN tag, no good. Parts car only.
You can't title a car with the vin stamped on top of the shock towers, only with the one riveted on the cowl.
Nobody reproduces replacement vin tags because it's illegal.
There might even be an outside chance the original vin tag was moved to another car.
Interesting taillight panel and or choice
As far as dash VIN tags maybe some future owner will "find" the correct one for the car. Lots of things are illegal in this country though it doesn't doesn't seem to stop everyone ::) Will make things a little more questionable IMHO given the post and the ad
Looks "turnkey" to me.... :P
Quote from: scottwo on June 23, 2020, 05:43:44 PM
No VIN tag, no good. Parts car only.
You can't title a car with the vin stamped on top of the shock towers, only with the one riveted on the cowl.
Nobody reproduces replacement vin tags because it's illegal.
There might even be an outside chance the original vin tag was moved to another car.
yes you can
that riveted tag can be removed or lost
What's most inportant is what is permantly stamped in the metal structure of the vehicle.
None of our 1966 shelbys and other years even have riveted cowl tags. I think you mean on the dash behind the windshield.
If you show up with the correct paperwork the car never gets looked at in most states.
Ive seen cars titled where someone in the past swapped out complete bolt in dash assemblies. The wanted a different dash setup. the tags didnt get moved back to the correct cars and now the dash and stamped aprons dont match. The cars still had titles matching their stamped in numbers on the aprons.
Quote
You can't title a car with the vin stamped on top of the shock towers, only with the one riveted on the cowl.
Nobody reproduces replacement vin tags because it's illegal.
There might even be an outside chance the original vin tag was moved to another car.
It has been my experience that you can have a car inspected and titled with the apron VINs. You might end up with a state issued VIN attached to the car, but it can be done.
There are people that reproduce replacement VIN tags.
The possibility that the tag is on another car is real. That is a good observation.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
Quote from: Coralsnake on June 23, 2020, 06:52:07 PM
Quote
It has been my experience that you can have a car inspected and titled with the apron VINs. You might end up with a state issued VIN attached to the car, but it can be done.
+1
Depends on the state when it was done and sometimes the inspector. In Calif have seen them issues a new tag, often attached in the door jamb on cars were the VIN is not visible in the engine compartment. Sometimes it's a new VIN number (made up by the state) other times its the cars original VIN on a sate tag again depending on the inspector and the determination.
The person selling the car is on the forum and posted it for sale in the Cars For Sale section. Not sure how to post the listing but I will try.
http://www.saacforum.com/index.php?topic=11042.0
Quote from: scottwo on June 23, 2020, 05:43:44 PM
No VIN tag, no good. Parts car only.
You can't title a car with the vin stamped on top of the shock towers, only with the one riveted on the cowl.
Nobody reproduces replacement vin tags because it's illegal.
There might even be an outside chance the original vin tag was moved to another car.
Uh yes you can get a VIN tag made if you can prove the car is legit....with vin stamped on aprons Or wherever the MFG stamps them and a legal document like a title.......and have the car inspected and titled in your name.......
There are hundreds if not thousands of high end cars dating way back like a Dusenberg, Bugatti and even Shelbys running around with reproduction tags.....as long as the car had the right items to prove car was legit a company will make the tags........now yes tags are made by others for all the wrong reasons
The FIRST THING YOU DO when considering a vehicle like the one posted here is have your friendly police officer run the vin and see who last registered to and if stolen.....once that's done then do your homework
The thing is not if you can get a window vin tag made . The thing is if it is worth it to go to the trouble and expense given how much it needs and what you would have in it once done even to marginal restored standards vs. starting with a more expensive but more complete 70 GT500 car needing restoration.
Having the VIN run through the authorities would be the first thing to do. Just as the OP indicated and IMO it seems awfully strange that someone would take a Shelby and try to make Mach 1 out of it unless you were trying to cover something up.
First....
The VINs are stamped on the aprons of the car but the tag is missing
If this were a 66 Shelby with all the numbers but the Shelby tag missing it would be sought after and the
missing tag would be quickly forgiven.
Second..
There's really no evidence that someone knowingly tried to make a Shelby into a Mach 1.
If the car was stripped perhaps he thought he was restoring a 1969 Mustang....Not a real Shelby
About 20 years ago I looked at a 1970 Mach 1 for sale in New Bedford Massachusetts.
There was a 351 engine in the car and there was really nothing saying it was a Mach 1
But it had a "Z" in the VIN...
And the title said "1970 Mustang"
I'm simply saying that the VINS on aprons or the frame of any vehicle should be more important than missing tags.
Just my .02...
I still can't wrap my head around $31,000 for a shell that has absolutely nothing. Forget the tag.
I'm not well versed on 69/70's parts cost but I imagine you are looking at least another $30K in parts and $50-60K in labor and paint which is extremely conservative if someone built the car for you. $115-120K all in..... If you did most of the work yourself, you would still be in it at $80-90K IMO without good provenance if you decided to resale it.
Quote from: Greg on June 24, 2020, 09:47:26 AM
I'm not well versed on 69/70's parts cost but I imagine you are looking at least another $30K in parts and $50-60K in labor and paint which is extremely conservative if someone built the car for you. $115-120K all in..... If you did most of the work yourself, you would still be in it at $80-90K IMO without good provenance if you decided to resale it.
Correct..
Without question...
This is a beginner car for someone without a big budget but gets them into a GT 500
I think anyone would be hard pressed to find an original 65-70 Shelby project under $30k. Lots of folks cannot afford the average Shelby entry point, which is probably close to or at 6 figures these days. While this does afford someone a low initial cost, these major projects almost always end up costing more in the long run. But, to some folks, the journey to the finished car is worth more than clicking an easy button.
The dash and Shelby tags being missing does impact the car some, but it's not a kiss of death. My '68 has a repro Shelby tag. The previous owner had the car since the early 70's and used to keep it parked outside. He removed the Shelby tag in fear of someone stealing it. Unfortunately, through a couple family moves, the tag was lost. It is what it is, but there are cases where a repro tag doesn't mean someone is trying to cover up questionable/bad history.
I think it is extremely optimistic this car could be finished for $80K. It has absolutely nothing.
I am not saying someone out there isn't deserving or the car should be trashed. I am saying it is throwing good money after bad money.
Got money and time to burn? have at it.
It seems to me that basket cases bring an unreasonable amount. Most can't possibly be finished for the balance of the current remaining market value.
This car is an example of that I think?
The seller probably thought the same thoughts, build or sale so he decided to sale. Most of the time it is cheaper to buy than build but as Charles pointed out, the journey or learning about this model through the build process and seeing it resurrected is satisfying.
I think for a lot of us we have "been there and done that", so the educational experience has been well paid for :).
When a 69 was converted to a 70 was the dash VIN changed? Or did it just get the plastic covered label on the door?
Entire metal VIN plate was swapped out
Quote from: Bigblock on June 24, 2020, 02:13:06 PM
When a 69 was converted to a 70 was the dash VIN changed? Or did it just get the plastic covered label on the door?
Dash vin changed and plastic covered tamper proof label on the door.
It looks like it was just found, flipped, and now being flipped again based on some instagram posts.
Good color.
I agree with C Turner,...the VIN tag might not be a big deal here,..meaning ur getting the discount.
That said,...that car needs a ton.
But some people r handy.
Hopefully someone will purchase it , re vin it and another one is saved
Is this the same car that is listed in cars for sale on the forum
Quote from: Dan353 on June 25, 2020, 06:41:51 AM
Is this the same car that is listed in cars for sale on the forum
Yes
Indeed but he graciously gives us a $2,500 discount vs the ebayers
Quote from: Dan353 on June 25, 2020, 06:41:51 AM
Is this the same car that is listed in cars for sale on the forum
Quote from: FL SAAC on June 25, 2020, 07:37:27 AM
Indeed but he graciously gives us a $2,500 discount vs the ebayers
Quote from: Dan353 on June 25, 2020, 06:41:51 AM
Is this the same car that is listed in cars for sale on the forum
Not really, the BIN price on eBay includes a 428 block, rods, heads and tranny.
Probably can be negotiated into the deal for under 28.5
Everyday you sit on inventory it costs you money
Be happy !
Quote from: Greg on June 25, 2020, 08:03:33 AM
Quote from: FL SAAC on June 25, 2020, 07:37:27 AM
Indeed but he graciously gives us a $2,500 discount vs the ebayers
Quote from: Dan353 on June 25, 2020, 06:41:51 AM
Is this the same car that is listed in cars for sale on the forum
Not really, the BIN price on eBay includes a 428 block, rods, heads and tranny.
Question: How would you go about proving to the DMV that this is one of the Re-Vined 69 Shelby's and should have a 1970 Vin #? You would have to hope that there is a "Classic Shelby Know It All" on staff and working that day because you know if the person behind the counter is under 30 most likely wont know anything about Shelby's and there is a 99.999% chance neither will their Boss.
you bring a registry in and also a letter from SAAC registrar or someone similar
Now that is a good question
Im sure a note from some guy in New Jersey will please the DMV .
Lol
Quote from: tesgt350 on June 25, 2020, 10:13:01 AM
Question: How would you go about proving to the DMV that this is one of the Re-Vined 69 Shelby's and should have a 1970 Vin #? You would have to hope that there is a "Classic Shelby Know It All" on staff and working that day because you know if the person behind the counter is under 30 most likely wont know anything about Shelby's and there is a 99.999% chance neither will their Boss.
yes most folks in the DMV know nothing about cars 25 years or older........but if you have the legal paperwork and it matches the dash vin plate (you have to get one made for the car in this topic) I would think ok......the VIN on these cars does not have the same number of characters as newer cars so that throws them off first but then they move past that and look at the paperwork
Quote from: SCJSTU on June 25, 2020, 07:12:35 PM
yes most folks in the DMV know nothing about cars 25 years or older........but if you have the legal paperwork and it matches the dash vin plate (you have to get one made for the car in this topic) I would think ok......the VIN on these cars does not have the same number of characters as newer cars so that throws them off first but then they move past that and look at the paperwork
All depends on the state your trying to register the car in and what state its coming from.
It's been my experience that after the car and paperwork does not reflect one another often the process ends or gets pushed towards assigning a new state assigned VIN if the owner doesn't put brakes on the process, thanks them and goes back to develop a second plan. Of course during the process a VIN in the system either "woken up" again or it's put back in the system along with notes from the inspector.
That's if things go well and they don't choose to keep the car/body.
Not saying this happens all the time and in every state and country - Just saying ::)
Quote from: J_Speegle on June 25, 2020, 07:25:31 PM
Quote from: SCJSTU on June 25, 2020, 07:12:35 PM
yes most folks in the DMV know nothing about cars 25 years or older........but if you have the legal paperwork and it matches the dash vin plate (you have to get one made for the car in this topic) I would think ok......the VIN on these cars does not have the same number of characters as newer cars so that throws them off first but then they move past that and look at the paperwork
All depends on the state your trying to register the car in and what state its coming from.
It's been my experience that after the car and paperwork does not reflect one another often the process ends or gets pushed towards assigning a new state assigned VIN if the owner doesn't put brakes on the process, thanks them and goes back to develop a second plan. Of course during the process a VIN in the system either "woken up" again or it's put back in the system along with notes from the inspector.
That's if things go well and they don't choose to keep the car/body.
Not saying this happens all the time and in every state and country - Just saying ::)
Words of wisdom Mr. Speegle, I would let the current owner get it all straightened out before I paid for his headache.
He states.....
"I do not know anything about the car other than what I have typed above. Car is sold as-is where is with no warranty and no refunds." Run baby run comes to mind :)
There are companies that do private vehicle registration services. Check your individual State.
When I first bought one of my Mustangs which was also missing the windshield VIN plate, and it was on a Bill of Sale. Totally legit car, but no record for the VIN in the California DMV database. This was around 2006, AAA had already lost the ability to do lost title transfers in the State of California.
Because the Mustang was a stripped rolling shell, I was turned down flat by the DMV. Went through two different managers, trying to plead my case. Their rules state that since my car was incomplete and not roadworthy, they would not give me a license plates, title and registration. I explained that was only looking to get a title, they said come back when the car is roadworthy. I even reminded them, that by their law, I had 15 days from the sale date to notify the DMV. The highest manager agreed that it was contradictory.
I contacted a private registration company. They inspected the VIN, collected my DMV fees and taxes, and filed the paperwork on my behalf. In 2006, my total cost was $55-65, which included a notary fee. Within 3 weeks, I had a title mailed to me from the California DMV.
There has to be private registration companies, that can legitimately secure a 1970 title for that car. I am sure that it is on the owner to do their "do diligence".
now reduced in price.