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SAAC Forum => SAAC Forum Discussion Area => Topic started by: greekz on June 24, 2020, 03:47:10 PM

Title: Marti Auto Works Strikes Again.....Maybe
Post by: greekz on June 24, 2020, 03:47:10 PM
I purchased a new 5/16" Marti Auto Works Concours Fuel Hose kit from NPD yesterday.  Cut a short length when I reinstalled the carburetor on my '67 GT-350.  The hose leaked badly.  I checked the hose I.D. with that of a generic 5/16" I.D. hose purchased from NAPA.  The NAPA hose is visibly smaller and fits much tighter.  I am using the spring clamps, not the crimp ones.

Just wondering if anyone else has experienced any problems with these fuel hose kits.

Greek
Title: Re: Marti Auto Works Strikes Again.....Maybe
Post by: Bob Gaines on June 24, 2020, 03:54:17 PM
I purchased a new 5/16" Marti Auto Works Concours Fuel Hose kit from NPD yesterday.  Cut a short length when I reinstalled the carburetor on my '67 GT-350.  The hose leaked badly.  I checked the hose I.D. with that of a generic 5/16" I.D. hose purchased from NAPA.  The NAPA hose is visibly smaller and fits much tighter.  I am using the spring clamps, not the crimp ones.

Just wondering if anyone else has experienced any problems with these fuel hose kits.

Greek
My first thought is that a 3/8 hose got mixed up with a 5/16 hose when it came time to apply ink stamps. It also may be that the metric equivalent size will run slightly larger in diameter which may explain things. Ordinarily a screw clamp would make the difference irrelevant however for the historic look using the spring clamps may not supply the necessary squeeze to keep them from leaking. Keep us posted.
Title: Re: Marti Auto Works Strikes Again.....Maybe
Post by: Royce Peterson on June 24, 2020, 06:41:24 PM
Sounds like you might have a '68 kit that was mis marked? Everything in '67 should be 5/16".

I purchased a new 5/16" Marti Auto Works Concours Fuel Hose kit from NPD yesterday.  Cut a short length when I reinstalled the carburetor on my '67 GT-350.  The hose leaked badly.  I checked the hose I.D. with that of a generic 5/16" I.D. hose purchased from NAPA.  The NAPA hose is visibly smaller and fits much tighter.  I am using the spring clamps, not the crimp ones.

Just wondering if anyone else has experienced any problems with these fuel hose kits.

Greek
Title: Re: Marti Auto Works Strikes Again.....Maybe
Post by: greekz on June 24, 2020, 07:04:53 PM
Very well could be 3/8" mismarked or metric.  Returning kit tomorrow and see if another kit is correct.  Will let you know what happens.
Title: Re: Marti Auto Works Strikes Again.....Maybe
Post by: The Going Thing on June 25, 2020, 12:14:35 AM
As noted in previous post. The hoses on my Shelby all had to be changed that were just over a year old.  The fuel hoses from the fuel log to the carburetors were hard as a rock . The line from the apron to the pump was in the same condition and had cracked. Even the sender to main fuel line was brittle.
I might expect a little bit of hardening in the engine compartment, but it makes little sense at the tank. I had no issue with loose hoses and used both sizes.  The main line is 3/8 and the fuel log to carb are 5/16"  I used the spring clamps at the fuel line to sender and pinch clamps everywhere else as per factory.
Title: Re: Marti Auto Works Strikes Again.....Maybe
Post by: Bob Gaines on June 25, 2020, 12:29:42 AM
As noted in previous post. The hoses on my Shelby all had to be changed that were just over a year old.  The fuel hoses from the fuel log to the carburetors were hard as a rock . The line from the apron to the pump was in the same condition and had cracked. Even the sender to main fuel line was brittle.
I might expect a little bit of hardening in the engine compartment, but it makes little sense at the tank. I had no issue with loose hoses and used both sizes.  The main line is 3/8 and the fuel log to carb are 5/16"  I used the spring clamps at the fuel line to sender and pinch clamps everywhere else as per factory.
Maybe a typo but for the 67 historic look pinch clamps from fuel line to sender and  olive drab marked spring clamps everywhere else .
Title: Re: Marti Auto Works Strikes Again.....Maybe
Post by: The Going Thing on June 25, 2020, 12:32:22 AM
Bob:
The quads and fuel log had stainless crimps in '82 when I purchased the car. As for the fuel line I went to the 3/8" feed tank to pump down the outside of the rocker. So all clamps at the log and the main feed to the pump should be Olive pinch clamps?
Title: Re: Marti Auto Works Strikes Again.....Maybe
Post by: QuickSilverShelby on June 25, 2020, 09:38:33 AM
So if I order a set of these and they happen to come in Metric will they fit my car perfectly since I'm in Canada?  :D

QSS
Title: Re: Marti Auto Works Strikes Again.....Maybe
Post by: FL SAAC on June 25, 2020, 09:42:16 AM
We had not thought of that but after pondering on it. That is truly a profound and deep statement

So if I order a set of these and they happen to come in Metric will they fit my car perfectly since I'm in Canada?  :D

QSS
Title: Re: Marti Auto Works Strikes Again.....Maybe
Post by: Chris Thauberger on June 25, 2020, 09:48:23 AM
So if I order a set of these and they happen to come in Metric will they fit my car perfectly since I'm in Canada?  :D

QSS

Well technically speaking they are metric so they will fit if you live anywhere except Federated States of Micronesia, Liberia, Marshall Islands, Myanmar, Palau, Samoa, and the United States.

Theses are the only countries that do not use the metric system  (sort of)  ;)
Title: Re: Marti Auto Works Strikes Again.....Maybe
Post by: highland green on June 25, 2020, 10:22:33 AM
i had the same experience. rummaged through some old parts and found original line and spring clamps. original much tighter, :)
Title: Re: Marti Auto Works Strikes Again.....Maybe
Post by: Bob Gaines on June 25, 2020, 11:21:43 AM
Bob:
The quads and fuel log had stainless crimps in '82 when I purchased the car. As for the fuel line I went to the 3/8" feed tank to pump down the outside of the rocker. So all clamps at the log and the main feed to the pump should be Olive pinch clamps?
5/16 fuel log hose used the crimp clamps. Stainless is typically too brittle and expensive to be used in crimp clamps so they are typically a bright zinc plated steel . Short hose between sender and fuel line used crimp clamps.  Just the fuel line past the sender to the pump used the spring clamps. The olive identification color is for 5/16. If using 3/8 line on a 67 but wanted the historic look you could paint the silver color 3/8 spring clamps olive drab so as to not draw attention to the larger 68 model line on a 67.That is if you cared to disguise it.
Title: Re: Marti Auto Works Strikes Again.....Maybe
Post by: 69mach351w on June 25, 2020, 03:16:32 PM
So if I order a set of these and they happen to come in Metric will they fit my car perfectly since I'm in Canada?  :D

QSS

Well technically speaking they are metric so they will fit if you live anywhere except Federated States of Micronesia, Liberia, Marshall Islands, Myanmar, Palau, Samoa, and the United States.

Theses are the only countries that do not use the metric system  (sort of)  ;)
You missed Bangledesh  ;D
Title: Re: Marti Auto Works Strikes Again.....Maybe
Post by: Bob Gaines on June 25, 2020, 04:38:01 PM
So others reading can understand better what the discussion is about,  over the years the Marti hoses and cables have transitioned to the metric size. In the cables it means that the diameter of the cable is larger. In some cases it is easier to distinguish the larger metric then others. For example the positive battery cables are pretty easy to distinguish the larger metric form the original diameter 65-70. Easy for me because I have a number of original that I am used to comparing to. Sometimes ebay sellers try to pass off the metric cables as original. I haven't had any experience yet of problems associated with larger diameter fuel line ,heater or radiator hoses but I image it is coming. 
Title: Re: Marti Auto Works Strikes Again.....Maybe
Post by: Chris Thauberger on June 25, 2020, 05:59:12 PM
So if I order a set of these and they happen to come in Metric will they fit my car perfectly since I'm in Canada?  :D

QSS

Well technically speaking they are metric so they will fit if you live anywhere except Federated States of Micronesia, Liberia, Marshall Islands, Myanmar, Palau, Samoa, and the United States.

Theses are the only countries that do not use the metric system  (sort of)  ;)
You missed Bangledesh  ;D

Bangladesh Adopted the metric system July 1, 1982
Title: Re: Marti Auto Works Strikes Again.....Maybe
Post by: 557 on June 25, 2020, 06:11:43 PM
Heard Bangladesh is lovely this time of year..... :o
Title: Re: Marti Auto Works Strikes Again.....Maybe
Post by: greekz on June 25, 2020, 07:19:19 PM
Here is the outcome.

I stopped by NPD to show them the hose was too large for 5/16" fuel line.  Told the salesperson I installed a short section and it leaked.  He promptly measured the hose I.D and said "it is 5/16" so nothing is wrong.  He went and got another hose kit and measured the hose I.D. and said "it is 5/16". 

I said, " here is a piece of hose I bought for 5/16' tubing and it fits perfectly."  He measured my piece of hose and said,"it is a 1/4" I.D., it is miss marked.  No matter how hard I tried to convince him that the Marti hose was too big he would not relent.  I told him this hose is useless to me for may application I want to return it.  Since I had cut off a short section, he would not take it back.  Could be my last purchase from NPD.

My understanding has been a hose for a specific size tube has a smaller I.D. than the tube so it can seal better.  Maybe I am wrong, but logic tells me something different.
Title: Re: Marti Auto Works Strikes Again.....Maybe
Post by: 69mach351w on June 25, 2020, 07:54:36 PM
So if I order a set of these and they happen to come in Metric will they fit my car perfectly since I'm in Canada?  :D

QSS

Well technically speaking they are metric so they will fit if you live anywhere except Federated States of Micronesia, Liberia, Marshall Islands, Myanmar, Palau, Samoa, and the United States.

Theses are the only countries that do not use the metric system  (sort of)  ;)
You missed Bangledesh  ;D

Bangladesh Adopted the metric system July 1, 1982
I knew that, I was just testing you ::)  ;D
Title: Re: Marti Auto Works Strikes Again.....Maybe
Post by: Bob Gaines on June 25, 2020, 11:55:19 PM
Here is the outcome.

I stopped by NPD to show them the hose was too large for 5/16" fuel line.  Told the salesperson I installed a short section and it leaked.  He promptly measured the hose I.D and said "it is 5/16" so nothing is wrong.  He went and got another hose kit and measured the hose I.D. and said "it is 5/16". 

I said, " here is a piece of hose I bought for 5/16' tubing and it fits perfectly."  He measured my piece of hose and said,"it is a 1/4" I.D., it is miss marked.  No matter how hard I tried to convince him that the Marti hose was too big he would not relent.  I told him this hose is useless to me for may application I want to return it.  Since I had cut off a short section, he would not take it back.  Could be my last purchase from NPD.

My understanding has been a hose for a specific size tube has a smaller I.D. than the tube so it can seal better.  Maybe I am wrong, but logic tells me something different.
It is the metric scenario I suspected. You need to talk to Scott. He is a concerned Mustang car guy ,MCA concours judge and best of all part of the NPD hierarchy . I will try and find contact info for him.
Title: Re: Marti Auto Works Strikes Again.....Maybe
Post by: cbrown on June 26, 2020, 12:55:37 AM
Shalseth@npdlink.com.   ;)

Chris
Title: Re: Marti Auto Works Strikes Again.....Maybe
Post by: jswoody on June 26, 2020, 08:02:19 AM
Bob:
The quads and fuel log had stainless crimps in '82 when I purchased the car. As for the fuel line I went to the 3/8" feed tank to pump down the outside of the rocker. So all clamps at the log and the main feed to the pump should be Olive pinch clamps?
5/16 fuel log hose used the crimp clamps. Stainless is typically too brittle and expensive to be used in crimp clamps so they are typically a bright zinc plated steel . Just the fuel line past the sender to the pump used the spring clamps. The olive identification color is for 5/16. If using 3/8 line on a 67 but wanted the historic look you could paint the silver color 3/8 spring clamps olive drab so as to not draw attention to the larger 68 model line on a 67.That is if you cared to disguise it.

Sorry to back track to this, however I need a little clarification.  I thought 1967 used all crimp clamps.   Is this the connection between the fuel tank sender and undercarriage fuel line? 
Title: Re: Marti Auto Works Strikes Again.....Maybe
Post by: JD on June 26, 2020, 08:20:43 AM
Bob this is not correct - crimp clamps on rubber section at the sender?

Also line to the carb - spring clamps Olive color/finish?
Title: Re: Marti Auto Works Strikes Again.....Maybe
Post by: greekz on June 26, 2020, 09:39:56 AM
Shalseth@npdlink.com.   ;)

Chris

Thanks for the information.  I will send him an email.
Title: Re: Marti Auto Works Strikes Again.....Maybe
Post by: Bob Gaines on June 26, 2020, 11:38:02 AM
Bob this is not correct - crimp clamps on rubber section at the sender?

Also line to the carb - spring clamps Olive color/finish?
JD,crimp clamp on rubber section at sender is correct. GT350 or GT500. The assemblyline manual confirms although small illustration. Crimp clamp is the same type as your picture. I never addressed the smallblock fuel pump to carb given the GT500 Going Thing posed question at the time. On the GT350 it should be spring clamp for a GT350 however in that case for what ever reason I do not believe olive drab like the other spring clamps on th fuel line. I have found those to be a dark black oxide. Like what is found in fuel filter kits. I don't know if that is where they came from in the case of the GT350 just that they coincidentally look the same.   
Title: Re: Marti Auto Works Strikes Again.....Maybe
Post by: Bob Gaines on June 26, 2020, 11:54:26 AM
Bob this is not correct - crimp clamps on rubber section at the sender?

Also line to the carb - spring clamps Olive color/finish?
JD, I amended my earlier post to make it more clear.
Title: Re: Marti Auto Works Strikes Again.....Maybe
Post by: JD on June 26, 2020, 12:13:00 PM
Bob - THANKS for the clarification. 

I think that since the original poster (greekz) was asking about '67 GT350 at the carb some of us were looking that way not so much the GT500 direction.

JD

Title: Re: Marti Auto Works Strikes Again.....Maybe
Post by: Bob Gaines on June 26, 2020, 12:18:24 PM
Bob - THANKS for the clarification. 

I think that since the original poster (greekz) was asking about '67 GT350 at the carb some of us were looking that way not so much the GT500 direction.

JD
Not the first time a thread has taken a RIGHT TURN . :o
Title: Re: Marti Auto Works Strikes Again.....Maybe
Post by: Bossbill on June 26, 2020, 12:56:54 PM
(https://www.saacforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=11071.0;attach=47495;image)

The crimp clamps with the indentation are later reproductions that are visually incorrect for Concours.
The original clamps do not have the indentation as far as I know...
Title: Re: Marti Auto Works Strikes Again.....Maybe
Post by: Bob Gaines on June 26, 2020, 01:29:55 PM
(https://www.saacforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=11071.0;attach=47495;image)

The crimp clamps with the indentation are later reproductions that are visually incorrect for Concours.
The original clamps do not have the indentation as far as I know...
+1 . The clamps with the indents are not the type used on the assemblyine. The indents are not reproduction but the evolution of the design. The later clamps incorporate the indent as a way to strengthen the crimp part of the clamp. It is incorported into the design to help keep it from collapsing when crimped.
Title: Re: Marti Auto Works Strikes Again.....Maybe
Post by: JD on June 26, 2020, 01:52:41 PM
Bob, so the later dimpled version is OK for Division II concours?

(and yes we do seem to veer around on topics don't we ;-) )
Title: Re: Marti Auto Works Strikes Again.....Maybe
Post by: Bob Gaines on June 26, 2020, 02:39:13 PM
Bob, so the later dimpled version is OK for Division II concours?

(and yes we do seem to veer around on topics don't we ;-) )
There would be at least a mention if not a small deduction depending on how it looks. You can metal work the dimple out without too much trouble .
Title: Re: Marti Auto Works Strikes Again.....Maybe
Post by: roddster on June 27, 2020, 11:14:52 AM
  At the carb, those squeezer type clamps.  Wasn't there an issue with  the squareness or the roundness and length of the squeeze tabs?  And where to find them.
  The olive drab color shouldn't be an issue as camo paints are popular right now at the home centers.
Title: Re: Marti Auto Works Strikes Again.....Maybe
Post by: cbrown on June 27, 2020, 11:17:28 AM
Squared off ends are assembly line style I do believe and  rounded are later reproduction.  When I go to salvage yards I always look for the squared of style on fuel lines and brake booster.

chris
Title: Re: Marti Auto Works Strikes Again.....Maybe
Post by: Bob Gaines on June 27, 2020, 11:24:36 AM
Squared off ends are assembly line style I do believe and  rounded are later reproduction.  When I go to salvage yards I always look for the squared of style on fuel lines and brake booster.

chris
+1.  However the rounded ends are not reproduction just a evolution of the part . Apparently the sharp edge were a undesirably aspect.  The reproduction companies sell the rounded ear spring clamps because that is all they can get easily. Same with the dimpled crimp clamps. It sounds like some more parts you can have made like assemblyline Chris . ;)
Title: Re: Marti Auto Works Strikes Again.....Maybe
Post by: J_Speegle on June 27, 2020, 02:05:41 PM
Think you will find that Ford and their suppliers went to the rounded corners of the squeeze clamps after the period we focus on here on this site and others. Not that it makes allot of difference since they are still not correct for our cars - just wanted to offer that .

Also the reproduction pinch clamp without dimples were available for many years. Must have just gotten cheaper or someone found an easier source for the ones with the dimples so they took over the market
Title: Re: Marti Auto Works Strikes Again.....Maybe
Post by: Bob Gaines on June 27, 2020, 02:30:09 PM
  At the carb, those squeezer type clamps.  Wasn't there an issue with  the squareness or the roundness and length of the squeeze tabs?  And where to find them.
  The olive drab color shouldn't be an issue as camo paints are popular right now at the home centers.
All of the squeeze clamps of the 60's era will have the squared off ears. The fuel filter clamps squeeze clamps were not olive drab . The other ones on a 67 were.
Title: Re: Marti Auto Works Strikes Again.....Maybe
Post by: s2ms on June 27, 2020, 04:03:45 PM
Just to add to the discussion....

Got curious and measured a couple hose pieces I had laying around. Marti piece (at least I think it's Marti) is leftover from the last hose change a couple years ago. NOS piece is from a period Autolite fuel filter kit.  Marti OD and ID are slightly larger than NOS, Marti ID is a loose 5/16, NOS a tight 5/16.

(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/236-270620155222.jpeg)

(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/236-270620155333.jpeg)

(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/236-270620155443.jpeg)
Title: Re: Marti Auto Works Strikes Again.....Maybe
Post by: greekz on June 27, 2020, 07:15:07 PM
Nice comparison.  I checked a couple of my FG-14 and FG-15 NOS Fuel Filter kits as well and the hoses in them have an inside diameter closer to the aftermarket hose from NAPA.  Somewhere I have a partial Marti hose kit from several years ago, hopefully I will find it.
Title: Re: Marti Auto Works Strikes Again.....Maybe
Post by: Bob Gaines on June 27, 2020, 09:51:05 PM
Just to add to the discussion....

Got curious and measured a couple hose pieces I had laying around. Marti piece (at least I think it's Marti) is leftover from the last hose change a couple years ago. NOS piece is from a period Autolite fuel filter kit.  Marti OD and ID are slightly larger than NOS, Marti ID is a loose 5/16, NOS a tight 5/16.

Not a big surprise given the other items in his line up that use metric equivalents. The next thing you need to check is the radiator hoses. ;)
Title: Re: Marti Auto Works Strikes Again.....Maybe
Post by: shelbydoug on June 28, 2020, 08:51:52 AM
I'm not sure entirely what issues Marti has with producing products? Perhaps it is that he uses the original materials and methods.

I just installed a set of his spark plug wires and was having "gremlins" appear all over the place.

It turns out that three wires were cracked and grounding out right out of the box. I changed back to an HEI stile and all is good.

So the wires look good on display but are just a can of worms for me to run.

As a result, I am not entirely surprised to hear of these other issues at all?


Kevin Marti has been quoted as saying "Shelby guys are just a pain in the as s". I guess he knows me pretty well? ::)
Title: Re: Marti Auto Works Strikes Again.....Maybe
Post by: greekz on June 28, 2020, 12:50:32 PM
[Kevin Marti has been quoted as saying "Shelby guys are just a pain in the as s". I guess he knows me pretty well? ::)
[/quote]

I would say to him, just improve the quality of your parts!  If it was not for the group of enthusiasts wanting original looking parts, he would have no business.  Many car enthusiasts I know do not really care if the spark plug wires, hoses, etc. have original markings or appearance.  They want their car to perform without problems.  It is not rocket science to make a correct part.  He used to do it on a regular basis.  I can remember buying his parts many years ago with little or no defects.  It is through customer feedback manufacturers maintain the integrity of their products and services. 

Would a customer pay a few dollars more for a part that fits, looks and performs correctly?  I certainly would.
Title: Re: Marti Auto Works Strikes Again.....Maybe
Post by: shelbydoug on June 28, 2020, 02:14:29 PM
[Kevin Marti has been quoted as saying "Shelby guys are just a pain in the as s". I guess he knows me pretty well? ::)

I would say to him, just improve the quality of your parts!  If it was not for the group of enthusiasts wanting original looking parts, he would have no business.  Many car enthusiasts I know do not really care if the spark plug wires, hoses, etc. have original markings or appearance.  They want their car to perform without problems.  It is not rocket science to make a correct part.  He used to do it on a regular basis.  I can remember buying his parts many years ago with little or no defects.  It is through customer feedback manufacturers maintain the integrity of their products and services. 

Would a customer pay a few dollars more for a part that fits, looks and performs correctly?  I certainly would.
[/quote]

There may be something lost when it's translated into Chinese? I don't think he makes anything. Just buys parts when and wherever he can.
Title: Re: Marti Auto Works Strikes Again.....Maybe
Post by: greekz on June 28, 2020, 03:36:56 PM
[Kevin Marti has been quoted as saying "Shelby guys are just a pain in the as s". I guess he knows me pretty well? ::)

I would say to him, just improve the quality of your parts!  If it was not for the group of enthusiasts wanting original looking parts, he would have no business.  Many car enthusiasts I know do not really care if the spark plug wires, hoses, etc. have original markings or appearance.  They want their car to perform without problems.  It is not rocket science to make a correct part.  He used to do it on a regular basis.  I can remember buying his parts many years ago with little or no defects.  It is through customer feedback manufacturers maintain the integrity of their products and services. 

Would a customer pay a few dollars more for a part that fits, looks and performs correctly?  I certainly would.

There may be something lost when it's translated into Chinese? I don't think he makes anything. Just buys parts when and wherever he can.
[/quote]

Maybe so, but he can make sure items meet specification.
Title: Re: Marti Auto Works Strikes Again.....Maybe
Post by: greekz on June 29, 2020, 09:00:46 PM
Update:

Contacted Scott at NPD and received a very quick response from NPD's Operations Manager stating he was sorry for my lack of customer service and will fully refund my money.  He also said they would be contacting Marti Auto Works to further investigate the problem.  Will keep updating as news comes in.

Thanks again for the email link.

Title: Re: Marti Auto Works Strikes Again.....Maybe
Post by: Horsman on June 30, 2020, 10:40:51 AM
I installed the Marti 5/16" fuel line kit and clamps on my 67 Mustang GT, leaked at the tank and fuel pump immediately, very disappointing. I ended up using fuel line from the local parts store that fit perfect and was not going to degrade with the ethanol found in todays fuels.
Title: Re: Marti Auto Works Strikes Again.....Maybe
Post by: Bob Gaines on June 30, 2020, 10:49:54 AM
Well the good news is that the 5/16 auto parts hose works and is readily available . If it is available at the the auto parts store then Kevin Marti should be able to source it too at a comparable price also. All of his products have been well received by our community hopefully Scott from NPD and others can get him back on the right track.
Title: Re: Marti Auto Works Strikes Again.....Maybe
Post by: greekz on June 30, 2020, 11:11:34 AM
Well the good news is that the 5/16 auto parts hose works and is readily available . If it is available at the the auto parts store then Kevin Marti should be able to source it too at a comparable price also. All of his products have been well received by our community hopefully Scott from NPD and others can get him back on the right track.

That is my hope as well.