Funny commentary
This 1970 Shelby Mustang GT500 convertible was sold new by Minar Ford of Minneapolis, Minnesota, and was refurbished under previous ownership before being imported to Canada on its acquisition by the selling dealer in 2017. The car is finished in special-order Grabber Yellow over black vinyl, and power comes from a 428ci Cobra Jet V8 paired with a three-speed Cruise-O-Matic transmission and a Traction-Lok differential with 3.50:1 gears. Additional equipment includes a white soft top, optional heavy-duty competition suspension, a Tilt-Away steering wheel, a period Pioneer AM/FM/eight-track stereo, and more. The transmission was re-sealed in January 2020. This final-year GT500 is reportedly listed in both the SAAC registry and the Shelby American database, and is offered with a factory order sheet, a dealer invoice, original service booklet and service records from 1975 to present, a Deluxe Marti Report, and transferrable Ontario registration.
Lot #33822
Seller: segalmotorcar
Location: Concord, Ontario, Canada
Chassis: 0F03R482603
93k Miles Shown
428ci Cobra Jet V8
3-Speed C6 Automatic Transmission
3.50:1 Traction-Lok Rear End
Final-Year Shelby Mustang
One Of 350 GT500 Convertibles Built For 1969-70
Grabber Yellow w/White Convertible Top
Black Vinyl Interior
Competition Suspension
Period AM/FM/8-Track Stereo
Owner's Manuals
Factory Order Sheet & Dealer Invoice
Service Records 1975-Present
Deluxe Marti Report
Private Party or Dealer: Dealer
Additional Charges From This Dealer: USD $0
Model Pages: Shelby Mustang GT350 & GT500, Ford Mustang 1969-1973
Category: American
(https://bringatrailer.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/1970_shelby_mustang_gt500_convertible_15916483546c0db8836bfe9e97f1-2.jpg?w=940)
(https://bringatrailer.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/1970_shelby_mustang_gt500_convertible_159164835736bfe9e97f2-2.jpg?w=620&resize=620%2C413)
Extremely beautiful car . Do you think the photographer didn't see the tow hook hanging down when taking the front picture? ::)
I think it's beautiful....
But I prefer GT 350's..
Link to the Bring A Trailer auction - https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1970-shelby-mustang-gt500-convertible-2/ (https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1970-shelby-mustang-gt500-convertible-2/)
Maybe 1 of 6 yellow ones? The Marti Report says - correctly - there were 350 1970 GT500 convertibles. Got to agree it looks nice.
Quote from: silverton_ford on July 05, 2020, 04:44:47 PM
Link to the Bring A Trailer auction - https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1970-shelby-mustang-gt500-convertible-2/ (https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1970-shelby-mustang-gt500-convertible-2/)
Whoops, Thank you
Quote from: Bob Gaines on July 05, 2020, 02:34:14 PM
Extremely beautiful car . Do you think the photographer didn't see the tow hook hanging down when taking the front picture? ::)
;D ;D First thing I saw and an easy fix so you wonder why people don't. The guy has his number wrong and one guy was hung up on the 1 of 6. I believe his drag pack numbers for 70 are wrong. I corrected him on the 1 of 90 instead of 1 of 70 70s made so then he quotes the CJ forum numbers of 1 of 90. I am at the point in that I hate myself because I can pick apart whats wrong with a beautiful car like this to be concours but am keeping my mouth shut on the auction. I'm sure, Bob, that you can find more than I can also. :) . Gary
Does the car actually have the decal on the windshield?
Quote from: shelbymann1970 on July 08, 2020, 08:05:36 AM
Quote from: Bob Gaines on July 05, 2020, 02:34:14 PM
Extremely beautiful car . Do you think the photographer didn't see the tow hook hanging down when taking the front picture? ::)
;D ;D First thing I saw and an easy fix so you wonder why people don't. The guy has his number wrong and one guy was hung up on the 1 of 6. I believe his drag pack numbers for 70 are wrong. I corrected him on the 1 of 90 instead of 1 of 70 70s made so then he quotes the CJ forum numbers of 1 of 90. I am at the point in that I hate myself because I can pick apart whats wrong with a beautiful car like this to be concours but am keeping my mouth shut on the auction. I'm sure, Bob, that you can find more than I can also. :) . Gary
For the seller, it is just product that needs to be moved at the highest margin.
Took over a year to sale ?? Wow!!
Quote from: CharlesTurner on July 08, 2020, 11:17:13 AM
Does the car actually have the decal on the windshield?
yes it does. My assumption it is NOT one of 6 built in the top, interior and body color but also adding options to get there as Shelbys had limited options so there are rarely one of one 69-70s unless they are like Bob and Ed's purple cars or Randy Sizemore's yellow spec paint DP car. Gary
Quote from: Royce Peterson on July 05, 2020, 07:34:36 PM
Maybe 1 of 6 yellow ones? The Marti Report says - correctly - there were 350 1970 GT500 convertibles. Got to agree it looks nice.
there were 90 total GT500 verts vinned for 1970. 57 Gt350s and 147 total. Those are the numbers I have gotten through SAAC years ago. Marti says 147 70 Shelby verts with the same DSO(all had the same DSO). Gary
Bill C had a yellow 70-500 convertible about 10 years ago. I believe he or Ed could chime in on this particular color on this year/make/body.
People seem to have a hard time reading Marti reports.
According to that report, there were 58 yellow 1970 convertibles. That includes all 1970 yellow convertibles. 37 of those were yellow with the black (FAA) interior. So 21, were yellow with other interior call outs.
Im guessing "1 of 6" is a further breakdown from and elite report where is says something like six of these cars were sent to New England. Not really relevant in my opinion.
1 of 6 might also refer to yellow exterior/ black interior/ GT500/ auto trans/ white convertible top/ no ac convertible cars. Again, after you pile on a half dozen qualifiers it kind of dilutes the "rare" statement in my opinion.
The DSO is meaningless. It only refers to a batch of cars built with similar features and sent to AOSmith for conversion.
Shelbys not selling for a year is not unusual. We think of the cars as desirable, most were sales dogs. The orange 1968 was built in May 68 and didnt sell until Jan 70.
All 9 of the yellow gt500 verts were late built having HXD F-60-15 big suspension. All 3 of the 69 gt500 yellow verts had factory A/C and tilt. 6 1970 yellow gt500 verts built and of the 9 total all were automatics except for 1 4-speed and that 70 4-speed was the only drag pack yellow vert built and guess who owns it? The yellow 69-70 shelbys were the only color that used the black stripes and that's just the way it is!!!
Quote from: Coralsnake on July 10, 2020, 08:39:49 AM
People seem to have a hard time reading Marti reports.
According to that report, there were 58 yellow 1970 convertibles. That includes all 1970 yellow convertibles. 37 of those were yellow with the black (FAA) interior. So 21, were yellow with other interior call outs.
Im guessing "1 of 6" is a further breakdown from and elite report where is says something like six of these cars were sent to New England. Not really relevant in my opinion.
1 of 6 might also refer to yellow exterior/ black interior/ GT500/ auto trans/ white convertible top/ no ac convertible cars. Again, after you pile on a half dozen qualifiers it kind of dilutes the "rare" statement in my opinion.
The DSO is meaningless. It only refers to a batch of cars built with similar features and sent to AOSmith for conversion.
Absolutely agree, guys really think there is value in having the only car that came with a tissue dispenser making it 1 of 1
Quote from: Greg on July 10, 2020, 08:51:15 AM
Quote from: Coralsnake on July 10, 2020, 08:39:49 AM
People seem to have a hard time reading Marti reports.
According to that report, there were 58 yellow 1970 convertibles. That includes all 1970 yellow convertibles. 37 of those were yellow with the black (FAA) interior. So 21, were yellow with other interior call outs.
Im guessing "1 of 6" is a further breakdown from and elite report where is says something like six of these cars were sent to New England. Not really relevant in my opinion.
1 of 6 might also refer to yellow exterior/ black interior/ GT500/ auto trans/ white convertible top/ no ac convertible cars. Again, after you pile on a half dozen qualifiers it kind of dilutes the "rare" statement in my opinion.
The DSO is meaningless. It only refers to a batch of cars built with similar features and sent to AOSmith for conversion.
Absolutely agree, guys really think there is value in having the only car that came with a tissue dispenser making it 1 of 1
and you can't get the "Clueless" to understand that. And I here them go around at mustang shows saying "This car is a 1 of 6". And come to find out it is something so meaningless. BUT....They think they have a car much more valuable than the identical sitting right next to them ::)
Quote from: 69mach351w on July 10, 2020, 11:48:05 AM
Quote from: Greg on July 10, 2020, 08:51:15 AM
Quote from: Coralsnake on July 10, 2020, 08:39:49 AM
People seem to have a hard time reading Marti reports.
According to that report, there were 58 yellow 1970 convertibles. That includes all 1970 yellow convertibles. 37 of those were yellow with the black (FAA) interior. So 21, were yellow with other interior call outs.
Im guessing "1 of 6" is a further breakdown from and elite report where is says something like six of these cars were sent to New England. Not really relevant in my opinion.
1 of 6 might also refer to yellow exterior/ black interior/ GT500/ auto trans/ white convertible top/ no ac convertible cars. Again, after you pile on a half dozen qualifiers it kind of dilutes the "rare" statement in my opinion.
The DSO is meaningless. It only refers to a batch of cars built with similar features and sent to AOSmith for conversion.
Absolutely agree, guys really think there is value in having the only car that came with a tissue dispenser making it 1 of 1
and you can't get the "Clueless" to understand that. And I here them go around at mustang shows saying "This car is a 1 of 6". And come to find out it is something so meaningless. BUT....They think they have a car much more valuable than the identical sitting right next to them ::)
I hear you and understand your point. In this case the car being discussed is 1 of 5 1970 Yellow GT500 convertibles that were automatic. That is a little more significant the a tissue dispenser. Ed has the one 4 speed 70 yellow convertible and its a drag pack too.
That yellow Shelby is 1 of 5 automatic 1970 gt500 verts but it had AAR A/C installed when new so that makes it RARE AIR!! Back a few years ago a 69 yellow gt500 vert sold in texas auction bought big $ as these rare yellow Shelby verts don't come around to often for sale.
Quote from: Coralsnake on July 10, 2020, 08:39:49 AM
People seem to have a hard time reading Marti reports.
According to that report, there were 58 yellow 1970 convertibles. That includes all 1970 yellow convertibles. 37 of those were yellow with the black (FAA) interior. So 21, were yellow with other interior call outs.
Im guessing "1 of 6" is a further breakdown from and elite report where is says something like six of these cars were sent to New England. Not really relevant in my opinion.
1 of 6 might also refer to yellow exterior/ black interior/ GT500/ auto trans/ white convertible top/ no ac convertible cars. Again, after you pile on a half dozen qualifiers it kind of dilutes the "rare" statement in my opinion.
The DSO is meaningless. It only refers to a batch of cars built with similar features and sent to AOSmith for conversion.
Shelbys not selling for a year is not unusual. We think of the cars as desirable, most were sales dogs. The orange 1968 was built in May 68 and didnt sell until Jan 70.
While I agree in the DSO is meaningless but in how Marti runs them for 69-70 Shelbys it gives you the exact total of both models . 90 +57=147. It is meaningless on exact breakdown though between the 2 models but it gives the total of verts vinned for 70. Gary
Quote from: Special Ed on July 10, 2020, 03:25:36 PM
That yellow Shelby is 1 of 5 automatic 1970 gt500 verts but it had AAR A/C installed when new so that makes it RARE AIR!! Back a few years ago a 69 yellow gt500 vert sold in texas auction bought big $ as these rare yellow Shelby verts don't come around to often for sale.
So Ed is the 428 Cobrajet forum numbers wrong on drag pack verts? I asked Nate but he hasn't answered me yet. how many drag pack verts for 69-70 total? Gary
428 cj registry production #s are correct 43 drag pack 69-70 gt500 verts total built and 90 total 1970 gt500 verts built. Depends on how u read the marti report stats. Years ago lots of confusion on the marti reports since he was including shelbys and mustangs together till I told him it would be better to keep the numbers separate since 69 shelbys were all coded starting with 48xxxx #.
Quote from: Special Ed on July 10, 2020, 05:54:34 PM
428 cj registry production #s are correct 43 drag pack 69-70 gt500 verts total built and 90 total 1970 gt500 verts built. Depends on how u read the marti report stats. Years ago lots of confusion on the marti reports since he was including shelbys and mustangs together till I told him it would be better to keep the numbers separate since 69 shelbys were all coded starting with 48xxxx #.
Thanks for clarifying this as the CJ site I thought was pretty correct throughout. the low number in the 20s i thought I heard you mention years ago must have been for 69s. Do these 2 cars look familiar Ed? Gary
The subject of the raised clock binnacle was brought up in the commentary.
What is the story on that?
Quote from: 2112 on July 10, 2020, 11:35:34 PM
The subject of the raised clock binnacle was brought up in the commentary.
What is the story on that?
Most likely talking about the add on air components of that particular car which requires the clock to protrude unlike the more conventional factory air that the other yellow cars (excluding the one 4 speed) had which components fit behind dash panel allowing the clock to be recessed .
Thanks gary nice photo u took at fords 100 year event in Dearborn almost 20 years ago. We had our 2 consecutive serial # 482655 & 482656 70 gt500 4-speed drag pack verts & both were originally used as Shelby company cars (see photos and story page 1247 of the new Shelby registry). Both orange cars are loaded with same options & original drivetrains with 2655 being grabber orange/black int. & top & 2656 being competition orange/white int. & top. These 2 orange shelby drag pack verts along with 3 other drag pack Shelby verts (purple yellow black jade) were used in my LAST wedding party cruise 10 years ago.
Quote from: Bob Gaines on July 11, 2020, 12:37:28 AM
Quote from: 2112 on July 10, 2020, 11:35:34 PM
The subject of the raised clock binnacle was brought up in the commentary.
What is the story on that?
Most likely talking about the add on air components of that particular car which requires the clock to protrude unlike the more conventional factory air that the other yellow cars (excluding the one 4 speed) had which components fit behind dash panel allowing the clock to be recessed .
If I just had to add A/C, I would have deleted the clock rather than have that binnacle.
Quote from: Special Ed on July 11, 2020, 07:45:02 AM
Thanks gary nice photo u took at fords 100 year event in Dearborn almost 20 years ago. We had our 2 consecutive serial # 482655 & 482656 70 gt500 4-speed drag pack verts & both were originally used as Shelby company cars (see photos and story page 1247 of the new Shelby registry). Both orange cars are loaded with same options & original drivetrains with 2655 being grabber orange/black int. & top & 2656 being competition orange/white int. & top. These 2 orange shelby drag pack verts along with 3 other drag pack Shelby verts (purple yellow black jade) were used in my LAST wedding party cruise 10 years ago.
Even though I was not there I got pics. LOL
Thanks gary the specialed wedding caravan 10 years ago. We drove the cars together from donnas home town Ferdinand church to Huntingburg event center reception 15 miles stopping at 2 bars along the way. About 600 or so people were at the wedding.
Quote from: Special Ed on July 11, 2020, 01:57:31 PM
Thanks gary the specialed wedding caravan 10 years ago. We drove the cars together from donnas home town Ferdinand church to Huntingburg event center reception 15 miles stopping at 2 bars along the way. About 600 or so people were at the wedding.
Yeah those hard old tires would light up pretty easily when I pushed down on the gas. ;)
Quote from: Bob Gaines on July 11, 2020, 02:11:10 PM
Quote from: Special Ed on July 11, 2020, 01:57:31 PM
Thanks gary the specialed wedding caravan 10 years ago. We drove the cars together from donnas home town Ferdinand church to Huntingburg event center reception 15 miles stopping at 2 bars along the way. About 600 or so people were at the wedding.
Yeah those hard old tires would light up pretty easily when I pushed down on the gas. ;)
Did he let you drive the purple Shelby since you own one? ;D Gary Speaking of old tires my friend Seraphim drag raced his 69 original Boss 429 once back in the late 90s. He didn't like how the "repo" tires were on the car and bought a new set. Well in 2008 I date coded those repo tires for him as I thought about buying them for 500 bucks for my Shelby. Luckily he put them away. YEP they were 69 DATE CODED original F-60-15s.
Quote from: shelbymann1970 on July 11, 2020, 03:13:57 PM
Quote from: Bob Gaines on July 11, 2020, 02:11:10 PM
Quote from: Special Ed on July 11, 2020, 01:57:31 PM
Thanks gary the specialed wedding caravan 10 years ago. We drove the cars together from donnas home town Ferdinand church to Huntingburg event center reception 15 miles stopping at 2 bars along the way. About 600 or so people were at the wedding.
Yeah those hard old tires would light up pretty easily when I pushed down on the gas. ;)
Did he let you drive the purple Shelby since you own one? ;D Gary Speaking of old tires my friend Seraphim drag raced his 69 original Boss 429 once back in the late 90s. He didn't like how the "repo" tires were on the car and bought a new set. Well in 2008 I date coded those repo tires for him as I thought about buying them for 500 bucks for my Shelby. Luckily he put them away. YEP they were 69 DATE CODED original F-60-15s.
I drove it down at Tulsa show one Saturday evening cruising around close to the convention hotel while Ed was holding court.Tony King had his purple Mach I there that year too. Not really anywhere practical to get on it for more then a second I so can't report how stout the engine was .
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Are these referred to as a 70 "carryover" car like the early 66's, or just 70 since they were all technically 69 carryover's?
1966s are 1966s
1970s are 1970s
"Carryover" is a term invented to differentiate a group of cars that some people perceive to have a higher value.
Quote from: Coralsnake on July 13, 2020, 05:40:27 PM
1966s are 1966s
1970s are 1970s
"Carryover" is a term invented to differentiate a group of cars that some people perceive to have a higher value.
Are we seriously going to go there, Pete? Your response is reminiscent of your nemesis ;).
The difference is I am willing to learn.
Let me know what is objectionable?
Most people perceive a 66 carryover, continuation, 65 1/2 whatever they choose to call it worth a good deal more than a post 252 66.
Is the difference in price worth more than the differences between the two cars? Thats up to the buyer and seller but yes the price difference is there. I know I would love to have one of the first 66 GT350s but that just me.
Ive seen seen 65s broken down into Venice / LAX, front battery / rear battery, double digit vin etc etc so why shouldn't their be a premium (which once again their most assuredly is) on an early 66 GT350 vs a later one?
I think these first 252 cars are very special. For the record I own 1117.
Not directed at pchmotoho.
"You can get anything you want at Alice's Restaurant....."
Good question, Pete. To me, what is questionable is saying, "'Carryover" is a term invented to differentiate a group of cars that some people perceive to have a higher value.'"
First, the term wasn't simply invented, as there were other names / terms used to identify the first 252 cars produced for the 1966 model year of Shelbys in the past (Holdover, Leftover, 65 1/2, etc.). Different names have been in use for several decades, and it's my understanding that a (then) current group of owners wanted to coin a universal term to identify these specific cars, especially given there were several names being used. So, they took a vote and decided to call them "Carryover" cars, based on the fact that the cars themselves started out as 1965 Mustangs (unlike any other 66 Shelbys), but were produced as 1966 Shelby GT350s.
Second, there are numerous items found on the first 252 1966 Shelby GT350s that either didn't carry over into the rest of the 66s, or were phased out early in production after these cars were finished (example: Koni Shocks were installed on the first 252 GT350s for 66; however, they were phased out around car 6s952). Here are some items as a sampling:
1965 Seat upholstery – All smooth; no "weave pattern" texture in the center as in 1966
1965 Door panels & hardware – Vertical upholstery pattern, not horizontal as in 1966
1965 Dash pad – No "eyebrows" in the center as in 1966
1965 Radio blockoff plate – Concave on the sides with 4 sharp corners, not convex on the sides with the 2 top corners rounded off as in 1966.
1965 Glove box door – Curved, not flat as in 1966
1965 Glove box liner – No bracket for the owner card as in 1966
1965 Glove box – No 4-way flasher switch in glove box like the other 1966 GT350s had
1965 Door hinge bolts – 3/8" diameter with 9/16" head and star washers. Not 5/16" diameter with 1/2″ heads and round washers as was common in 1966.
1965 Ford VIN on car chassis & engine (starts with 5R09K.....)
1965-style Shelby VIN tag. There were two VIN tag styles for the first two years of the GT350 – 1965-style and 1966-style. Carryovers have the 1965-style. The change to the 1966-style tag did not occur immediately with 6S253, but did happen within the next hundred or so vehicles.
1965 Dates on all date coded parts
Third, perception and reality are two different things. It's true that value can be found in the eye of the beholder. However, sales (both public and private) have shown that the first 252 cars sell for a premium over the other 1966 Shelby GT350s, with the exception of truly unique cars (Paxton, convertibles, etc.). Without pulling a list of recent sales to compare the first 252 66 Shelbys, it's easier to point out that Hagerty values the first 252 66 Shelbys as such:
"For fastback: +35% for 1965 carry-over cars up to S/N 252". Given Hagerty tracks both sale prices and insured values, I take their input as solid in the eyes of the market.
Forth, for anyone interested in learning more about the first 252 cars (notice that I have not referred to them as "Carryover" since it's the car that is of value, not the name), here is a website that will provide much more background on these cars:
https://carryovergt350.com
Finally, I know that I'm basically telling multiple clockmakers how to read a clock, and it's my hope that this post will clear things up for some of those who are new to these specific cars.
Thanks!
Anyone know what Carroll Shelby's position was?
I have no idea but my guess is he never even thought about it or if he did he would've laughed that the issue even came up.
In one of the old registries it discusses the continuation cars and it does clearly say that they are 66s and nothing more. Once again though that is not the case today.
Maybe someone here can chime in on when they started seeing the early 66s recognized as unique.
Quote from: pchmotoho on July 14, 2020, 12:13:30 AM
I have no idea but my guess is he never even thought about it or if he did he would've laughed that the issue even came up.
In one of the old registries it discusses the continuation cars and it does clearly say that they are 66s and nothing more. Once again though that is not the case today.
Maybe someone here can chime in on when they started seeing the early 66s recognized as unique.
That is very correct. In fact, the latest registry "1966 Shelby Registry 2019 Edition" has multiple references and pictures showing some of the differences between the first 252 GT350s produced for 1966. Pages 6 - 9 reference the first 252 quite a bit, and page 7 (the first sentence of the first complete paragraph) states, "The first 252 cars have come to be called "carryover" cars by owners and enthusiasts since the 1970s."
It's my accretion that the first 252 cars became more recognized as people became aware of the true differences versus other 66 GT350s. And, I believe that much of the research completed (by people other than me ;)) brought about a greater understanding of these first 66s, and also dispelled some of the myths that had been floated (i.e.; the first 252 66s were originally built as 1965 Shelby GT350s and then rebuilt as 1966 GT350s) which soured people (understandably so at the time) on these cars being seen as "different".
Good stuff!
Quote from: Coralsnake on July 13, 2020, 05:40:27 PM
1966s are 1966s
1970s are 1970s
"Carryover" is a term invented to differentiate a group of cars that some people perceive to have a higher value.
Saying 1966s are 1966s is like saying 1965s are 1965s or 1967s are 1967s. We all know that certain cars within those years have different feature sets. The differences may not matter to you, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.
The carryovers are presented as being different because they are different.. Reply #43 points out some of those differences. Whether those matter to you or not is up to you. And whether those add or detract from the value is also an individual call.
I became aware that the first 252 1966 GT350's were different from the rest from an article by Rick Kopec back in the 70's. At that time I think he referred to them as leftover 65's, because their origin story had not been discovered yet. I liked their unique blend of '65 & '66 features and ended up buying one. That lead me to start doing more research on them. Some of my findings are on www.CarryoverGT350.com.
Oddly, after pointing out how the first 252 1966 GT350's were different from the rest, Rick later went on a rant about carryovers and how "a 1966 GT350 is just a 1966 GT350 – nothing more, nothing less," and accusing anyone who disagreed of being a greedy profiteer. The first half of that rant is not true, as proven by his own articles and the known facts about these cars. But the "greedy profiteer" part does have some merit. I bought my carryover in 1979 for love of the car – not for any perceived profit. And I still own it. But there have been people who have tried to pump up the resale value of their car by highlighting its status as a carryover. But I don't see that as any different than a 1965 GT350 seller who highlights his car as a "Venice car" or a "battery in the trunk car." Or a 1967 Shelby seller who demands a higher price because he has a rare, early "red light car." Are they also "greedy profiteers"?
When you write that,
"Carryover" is a term invented to differentiate a group of cars that some people perceive to have a higher value," you make is sound like there was a profit motive involved in the coining of that term. That's not true. It had nothing to do with value. And it was agreed upon because, at one point in time, a variety of terms were being used to refer to these cars – some of them misleading. It was judged that the community needed to settle on a single, standardized term to be used when referring to these cars. The word carryover was chosen because it's short and it conveys something about the history of the cars – to "carry over" the Shelby American production line during Ford's retooling shutdown. And combining the two words into one represents the combining of 1965 and 1966 features into one car. Had the motive been to pump up the value of the cars I feel certain that "65 1/2" would have been chosen.
Of all the Shelby owners who trumpet the special features that set their cars apart from the rest, only the carryover owners get accused of claiming a difference that doesn't exist. An accusation that is demonstrably false. I wonder why that is.
Steve
Thanks pchmotoho and shelbyrb
I first want to say the post was not meant to be inflammatory. I recognize the differences and the value.
I also understand all of the insightful 1966 commentary
I want to bring the dialogue back to the topic originally addressed, 1 of 6 '70 GT500 Convertibles.
Parsing out the 1970 Shelbys from the production run of the 1969 and 1970 Shelbys is an activity that I think feeds a couple of self-serving situations. Please, bear with me and hear me out.
From the "SAAC Shelby Registry 1968 – 1969 – 1970 4th Edition 2014" we'll read that...
1. "In reality, the 1969 model year only lasted nine months. While Mustang production began in August or September, Shelby did not receive cars until January."
2. "Since every 1969 and 1970 car was built during Ford's 1969 model run, they all had 1969 VINs on their inner fenders, windshield ID plates, door data plates and warranty cards."
3. "The cars were not built in strict numerical order, nor were they shipped in that manner. As a result, which cars became 1970 models is pure happenstance."
4. "Planning for the 1970 model cars began while the 1969 models were in production. However, when the Shelby Mustang program was terminated by Carroll Shelby in September of 1969, all planning ended."
There were three running production changes:
1. "5-Spoke Wheels. Incorrect bolt-hole chamfers caused all wheels manufactured before May 2, 1969 to be recalled and replaced."
2. "Fuel Cap & Venting. All GT500s produced prior to August 1 1969, were recalled and vented gas caps with non-vented caps. A new fuel tank vent was also installed."
3. "Spindles. In late March, a running production change was instituted which included the installation of Boss 302 front suspension on all cars which were equipped with the F60x15" tires."
1970 Shelby Updates:
1. "VIN Tags. New windshield VIN tag and driver-door data labels were installed. The VINs were the same, with the exception of beginning with '0' as first character instead of '9.'"
2. "Painted Hood Stripes. A section of the hood between the forward air inlet and the rear air outlet, on both sides was painted gloss black. Black Jade cars were flat black."
3. "Chin Spoiler. Black plastic Boss 302-type spoiler (but unique to Shelbys.)"
1969 Shelby Production – 2,362
1970 Shelby Production – 788
Total 1969 & 1970 Shelby Production – 3,150
Serial numbers not used – 150
From that information, we can reasonably conclude that Shelby, or Ford, originally intended to build 3,300 1969 Shelbys and then go into 1970 Shelby production, in a manner consistent with previous production plans and activities. Things changed.
Ford began to expand their own high performance Mustangs, i.e., Mach 1, Boss 302, Boss 429, and Cobra Jet powered Mustangs, after learning from their experiment with Carroll Shelby that there is a lucrative market for high performance Pony cars. Insurance companies were upping their premiums on this niche car segment, especially if the cars had high performance engines. The price of crude oil was increasing and high performance engines generally got poorer fuel mileage. So, with lower fuel efficiency and modest price increases, demand for fuel increased. We quickly learned how that condition impacted supply and later price increases. I'm sure that Ford's "suits" anticipated how those economic conditions would require them to adjust their offering to the high performance Pony car consumer market.
Re-VINing the 1969 Shelbys, to become 1970 Shelbys was a self-serving answer to how they would market "left-overs" to a shrinking market. It was not unusual for dealers to have current leftover models for sale simultaneously with new models. The consumer could leverage that inventory situation to get a better deal on a car that sold for a premium only months earlier. Since the new models generally had significant differences from the leftover current models, the dealer had leverage and the consumer had choice. According to the registry, some of the 1970 Shelby features under review were electronic fuel injection for GT350 and GT500 models, four-wheel disc brakes, a sunroof for the sports roof models, hide-away headlights, all-wheel drive, power windows, and the possibility of a Boss 429 engine option.
That was then, this is now. There were no cars designed, built, and sold as a 1970 Shelby Mustang, but there were cars designed, modified, and sold as 1970 Shelby Mustangs. The value of collectible cars is rooted in several unique variables. Production quantity, or the perception of low and desirable production is just one variable.
The person selling the 1 of 6 '70 GT500 convertibles is hoping that focusing of the lowest number produced correlates to a higher price deserved. Again, a self-serving situation. Setting aside color and other options, in reality, there were 335 1969 and 1970 Shelbys originally built as 1969 GT500 convertibles.
I write all this, not to be divisive, but to provide my personal perception, some context, and to meaningfully differentiate the 1970 Shelbys from all other Shelbys produced. Are they 1970 Shelbys? Yes, they are. Look at the VIN. Were they designed and built as a 1970 Shelby. Based on what I learned from SAAC documentations, my answer is no. I like all the Shelbys made in the '60s. I also like most Shelby owners, especially those who share my love of the product over the value of the product. Regardless how one parses out the attributes of Shelby Mustangs, they are rare under many comparisons of production automobiles. It's been said many times, and I think it's great advice, if you buy what you like, you'll never be disappointed, after any comparison.
Steve
Quote from: 8T03S1425 on July 14, 2020, 01:30:17 PM
I want to bring the dialogue back to the topic originally addressed, 1 of 6 '70 GT500 Convertibles.
Parsing out the 1970 Shelbys from the production run of the 1969 and 1970 Shelbys is an activity that I think feeds a couple of self-serving situations. Please, bear with me and hear me out.
From the "SAAC Shelby Registry 1968 – 1969 – 1970 4th Edition 2014" we'll read that...
1. "In reality, the 1969 model year only lasted nine months. While Mustang production began in August or September, Shelby did not receive cars until January."
2. "Since every 1969 and 1970 car was built during Ford's 1969 model run, they all had 1969 VINs on their inner fenders, windshield ID plates, door data plates and warranty cards."
3. "The cars were not built in strict numerical order, nor were they shipped in that manner. As a result, which cars became 1970 models is pure happenstance."
4. "Planning for the 1970 model cars began while the 1969 models were in production. However, when the Shelby Mustang program was terminated by Carroll Shelby in September of 1969, all planning ended."
There were three running production changes:
1. "5-Spoke Wheels. Incorrect bolt-hole chamfers caused all wheels manufactured before May 2, 1969 to be recalled and replaced."
2. "Fuel Cap & Venting. All GT500s produced prior to August 1 1969, were recalled and vented gas caps with non-vented caps. A new fuel tank vent was also installed."
3. "Spindles. In late March, a running production change was instituted which included the installation of Boss 302 front suspension on all cars which were equipped with the F60x15" tires."
1970 Shelby Updates:
1. "VIN Tags. New windshield VIN tag and driver-door data labels were installed. The VINs were the same, with the exception of beginning with '0' as first character instead of '9.'"
2. "Painted Hood Stripes. A section of the hood between the forward air inlet and the rear air outlet, on both sides was painted gloss black. Black Jade cars were flat black."
3. "Chin Spoiler. Black plastic Boss 302-type spoiler (but unique to Shelbys.)"
1969 Shelby Production – 2,362
1970 Shelby Production – 788
Total 1969 & 1970 Shelby Production – 3,150
Serial numbers not used – 150
From that information, we can reasonably conclude that Shelby, or Ford, originally intended to build 3,300 1969 Shelbys and then go into 1970 Shelby production, in a manner consistent with previous production plans and activities. Things changed.
Ford began to expand their own high performance Mustangs, i.e., Mach 1, Boss 302, Boss 429, and Cobra Jet powered Mustangs, after learning from their experiment with Carroll Shelby that there is a lucrative market for high performance Pony cars. Insurance companies were upping their premiums on this niche car segment, especially if the cars had high performance engines. The price of crude oil was increasing and high performance engines generally got poorer fuel mileage. So, with lower fuel efficiency and modest price increases, demand for fuel increased. We quickly learned how that condition impacted supply and later price increases. I'm sure that Ford's "suits" anticipated how those economic conditions would require them to adjust their offering to the high performance Pony car consumer market.
Re-VINing the 1969 Shelbys, to become 1970 Shelbys was a self-serving answer to how they would market "left-overs" to a shrinking market. It was not unusual for dealers to have current leftover models for sale simultaneously with new models. The consumer could leverage that inventory situation to get a better deal on a car that sold for a premium only months earlier. Since the new models generally had significant differences from the leftover current models, the dealer had leverage and the consumer had choice. According to the registry, some of the 1970 Shelby features under review were electronic fuel injection for GT350 and GT500 models, four-wheel disc brakes, a sunroof for the sports roof models, hide-away headlights, all-wheel drive, power windows, and the possibility of a Boss 429 engine option.
That was then, this is now. There were no cars designed, built, and sold as a 1970 Shelby Mustang, but there were cars designed, modified, and sold as 1970 Shelby Mustangs. The value of collectible cars is rooted in several unique variables. Production quantity, or the perception of low and desirable production is just one variable.
The person selling the 1 of 6 '70 GT500 convertibles is hoping that focusing of the lowest number produced correlates to a higher price deserved. Again, a self-serving situation. Setting aside color and other options, in reality, there were 335 1969 and 1970 Shelbys originally built as 1969 GT500 convertibles.
I write all this, not to be divisive, but to provide my personal perception, some context, and to meaningfully differentiate the 1970 Shelbys from all other Shelbys produced. Are they 1970 Shelbys? Yes, they are. Look at the VIN. Were they designed and built as a 1970 Shelby. Based on what I learned from SAAC documentations, my answer is no. I like all the Shelbys made in the '60s. I also like most Shelby owners, especially those who share my love of the product over the value of the product. Regardless how one parses out the attributes of Shelby Mustangs, they are rare under many comparisons of production automobiles. It's been said many times, and I think it's great advice, if you buy what you like, you'll never be disappointed, after any comparison.
Steve
Steve ,the 69 Shelby was in production before the BOSS 302. The big suspension designed for the F 60 15 tires was used on both cars and was put into use at the same time as far as is known. Attributing the spindles to ether car therefore is not accurate IMO. You forgot to mention the early 69 Mustang changes and the early 69 Shelby changes compared to later versions which were the ones typically converted to 1970 . You also forgot to add the GT500 manual choke conversion and distributor advance curve change. These facts don't change your point but I just wanted your post to be as accurate as possible. Nice writing otherwise.
All good points but also all the paperwork on 70 shelbys were updated or changed and all glovebox papers were changed to 70 along with 2 decal changes tire and dash manual choke decal on gt500s and dual point distributors on gt500 4-speeds & all 70 changes were done at fords Kar Kraft plant before jan 1 1970 to get around the new 70 models locking ignition law.
Also 1970 GT350s had a distributor change that was a 70 and had "ED" stamped on it so it would pass 1970 emissions. My original dist also has a dual vacuum advance and as far as I know no 1969 351Ws had a dual vacuum advance from looking in my shop manuals and such. Gary