Hello! I have my '68 GT500 at the shop and they are having some problems with the shocks. When they tried to take the worn ones off it was noted that they were very 'tight'. Probably took them awhile but once they got them off, they went to put a new set on and were faced with the reason that the other shocks were so difficult to remove. He stated that the angle was very extreme - basically if he were to put them on as intended, they would hit the towers - hence who ever put them on (40+ years ago - during which time the car has been in pretty much storage since) must have really had to use some force to get them to even bolt on. I told him I would check with the pros on this site and see if there is something unique about the installation, or perhaps a special tool was used - or perhaps the previous owner may have done some 'improper modifications' along the way. Thank you for your assistance.
Do you have a picture? Not sure how what your describing is possible. They basically go up through the center of the tower. Unless the saddle is bolted to the upper control arm incorrectly somehow.
Agreed, you have something else going on. Pictures would be helpful. There are no tricks, this should be very easy. The shocks are replaced with weight on the suspension.
Huh? BOTH the front and rear shock installations ARE SIMPLE. A first year HS auto shop student could do them.
So therefore, as it stands, someone has absolutely no freakin' idea what they are talking about, here's a hint, it isn't me, or there has been some kind of an Alien modification done in deep space to your car?
Look, this isn't politically correct to state it this way but a RETARD could do shock replacement blindfolded? Get my drift? ;)
Exactly what kind of a shop did you bring the car to? Is it at a hair dresser's shop or something more bizarre then even that? Yikes! :o
Exactly -- it should be extremely straightforward (snide remarks by shelbydoug are not necessary -- I am a longtime member of SAAC, hence have paid a lot of money to keep this club alive as the rest of you have; if there wasn't a confusing situation going on, I would not have wasted anyone's time; I'm sure all of you would like to see an old relic back on the road?) -- but they are giving him a lot of problems; that tells me that whoever did the install last was not a 'first year HS auto shop student'. For them to be so difficult to remove tells me the install was not proper in the first place - or something else is wrong. I do not have photographs but what he showed me was that the shock tower no where near lined up with the shocks and to get them to there it will take a lot of force. Davez I will bring your point to his attention as a potential issue. What brand of shocks were original (this will let me know if they have been replaced and most likely done improperly, somehow). Thank you for your thoughts!!
The original shock was a three way Gabriel adjustable. It was painted blue.
I dont have a photo handy.
Make sure they are doing this weight on suspension (wheels on ground)
These are 1969 shocks, but look similar to the 1968 shocks.
The seat they sit on should be horizontal when the wheels are on the ground.
(http://www.thecoralsnake.com/69shocks.JPG)
Its also possible the bushings in the spring seats are moving.
I found these pictures online showing how the shock sits on the seat.
http://www.freedomcruisin.com/Hollywood's_1968_Ford_Mustang_Projects/Hollywood's%201968%20Mustang%20Front%20Suspension%20Removal%20And%20Installations.html
Thank you. coralsnake! You - and the others - have been very helpful. I appreciate that! Thanks, again.
Quote from: redpony on July 11, 2020, 01:39:16 PM
Exactly -- it should be extremely straightforward (snide remarks by shelbydoug are not necessary -- I am a longtime member of SAAC, hence have paid a lot of money to keep this club alive as the rest of you have; if there wasn't a confusing situation going on, I would not have wasted anyone's time; I'm sure all of you would like to see an old relic back on the road?) -- but they are giving him a lot of problems; that tells me that whoever did the install last was not a 'first year HS auto shop student'. For them to be so difficult to remove tells me the install was not proper in the first place - or something else is wrong. I do not have photographs but what he showed me was that the shock tower no where near lined up with the shocks and to get them to there it will take a lot of force. Davez I will bring your point to his attention as a potential issue. What brand of shocks were original (this will let me know if they have been replaced and most likely done improperly, somehow). Thank you for your thoughts!!
The Brand was Autolite. The original equipment MFG was Gabrial. That is basically irrelevant because ANY shock made for 65-70 Mustang will physically fit your 68 .Your symptoms are very strange. Consequently without pictures of the upper control arm /spring saddle and its relation to the shock tower it is hard to diagnose. Just a bunch of guess's. If too much of a angle would suggest spring perch modification or damage . Did this car have the Shelby upper control arm drop done to it? That would be evident with a extra set of holes for the upper control arm to bolt to.Keep us posted on what you find out so others in the future faced with the same problem can be helped. Plus I for one am just very curious given I have not heard of symptoms described like this before.
They aren't snide remarks. They are a warning to you to get the car back away from them as soon as possible.
This one stinks so bad, I can smell it from here.
That was my initial point. There is NO situation where there can be any difficulty in removing them with one possible scenario, someone welded them in. ;)
I guess I should just mind my own business and let them walk all over you? So are you going to pay them the extra labor they are going to charge for the "unusual shocks"?
There must be a communication issue there's no way that shock can hit the shock Tower. it's in the middle of the coil spring it's just not possible. The only thing that is tight or snug is the bottom inner nut on the shock can be difficult to get to with a socket around the bushing for the spring saddle. you may not be able to get a socket on it it may have to be done with an open-ended wrench. My guess is to confirm what Pete coral snake said they tried to do it with the suspension unloaded and extended. you have to compress the suspension, or it's difficult next to impossible to get the lower inner nut off
Keep us posted redpony - I too am very curious what the issue is.
- Phillip
The upper and lower arms tilt at an extreme angle that doesn't allow installation of the front shocks if you do not follow the shop manual procedure. The shop manual tells you to support the upper control arm using the tool shown in order to remove or replace the front shocks. Alternatively you can use a floor jack on the lower arm and allow the weight of the car to hold it in place level with the wheel removed so the shock can be installed.
Quote from: Royce Peterson on July 11, 2020, 06:19:19 PM
The upper and lower arms tilt at an extreme angle that doesn't allow installation of the front shocks if you do not follow the shop manual procedure. The shop manual tells you to support the upper control arm using the tool shown in order to remove or replace the front shocks. Alternatively you can use a floor jack on the lower arm and allow the weight of the car to hold it in place level with the wheel removed so the shock can be installed.
Yes I think you are right to post this Royce but it illustrates that this is trivially basic tech info? I am very suspicious of a shop who doesn't know this yet or purposely making grumbling sounds to an unsuspecting owner in order to take advantage of them.
Quote from: Royce Peterson on July 11, 2020, 06:19:19 PM
The upper and lower arms tilt at an extreme angle that doesn't allow installation of the front shocks if you do not follow the shop manual procedure. The shop manual tells you to support the upper control arm using the tool shown in order to remove or replace the front shocks. Alternatively you can use a floor jack on the lower arm and allow the weight of the car to hold it in place level with the wheel removed so the shock can be installed.
Royce ,you and I both know that the useful tool you posted a illustration for is only needed if the suspension is unsupported or hanging. On the ground or on a four post lift it is not needed to change shocks . Of course we don't know if that is the issue but it could very well be. Redpony you should confirm if they have the car up in the air with the suspension hanging or on the ground or on a 4 post lift(one with ramps).if the suspension is hanging then that is the problem. I am suspicious like Doug that this might be the problem (suspension hanging which would make it hard to remove shocks) and the mechanics don't know any better. That is Mustang 101 and is scary if they don't know that. If that is the case then redpony needs to get his car out of there before they break something or over charge him because of the extra time it takes them to figure things out.
Quote from: Bob Gaines on July 11, 2020, 08:19:54 PM
Quote from: Royce Peterson on July 11, 2020, 06:19:19 PM
The upper and lower arms tilt at an extreme angle that doesn't allow installation of the front shocks if you do not follow the shop manual procedure. The shop manual tells you to support the upper control arm using the tool shown in order to remove or replace the front shocks. Alternatively you can use a floor jack on the lower arm and allow the weight of the car to hold it in place level with the wheel removed so the shock can be installed.
Royce ,you and I both know that the useful tool you posted a illustration for is only needed if the suspension is unsupported or hanging. On the ground or on a four post lift it is not needed to change shocks . Of course we don't know if that is the issue but it could very well be. Redpony you should confirm if they have the car up in the air with the suspension hanging or on the ground or on a 4 post lift(one with ramps).if the suspension is hanging then that is the problem. I am suspicious like Doug that this might be the problem (suspension hanging which would make it hard to remove shocks) and the mechanics don't know any better. That is Mustang 101 and is scary if they don't know that. If that is the case then redpony needs to get his car out of there before they break something or over charge him because of the extra time it takes them to figure things out.
I hope it is just some type of strange miscommunication? However, witnessing a rape can put a person in a precarious situation? If you say anything about it will you get "called out"?
You need to get the front wheels off Bob. For me it's the easy way. You may have other ideas but the fact is many of us use a two post lift and this is how it is done.
Quote from: Bob Gaines on July 11, 2020, 08:19:54 PM
Quote from: Royce Peterson on July 11, 2020, 06:19:19 PM
The upper and lower arms tilt at an extreme angle that doesn't allow installation of the front shocks if you do not follow the shop manual procedure. The shop manual tells you to support the upper control arm using the tool shown in order to remove or replace the front shocks. Alternatively you can use a floor jack on the lower arm and allow the weight of the car to hold it in place level with the wheel removed so the shock can be installed.
Royce ,you and I both know that the useful tool you posted a illustration for is only needed if the suspension is unsupported or hanging. On the ground or on a four post lift it is not needed to change shocks . Of course we don't know if that is the issue but it could very well be. Redpony you should confirm if they have the car up in the air with the suspension hanging or on the ground or on a 4 post lift(one with ramps).if the suspension is hanging then that is the problem. I am suspicious like Doug that this might be the problem (suspension hanging which would make it hard to remove shocks) and the mechanics don't know any better. That is Mustang 101 and is scary if they don't know that. If that is the case then redpony needs to get his car out of there before they break something or over charge him because of the extra time it takes them to figure things out.
I used to have a big band saw so I just made my own tools out of chunks of 3/4" steel plate with a notch cut in one end. Normally it is more convenient to support the front of the car and use a floor jack to elevate the suspension on the side where I am changing the shock. That way the shock lower end is at perfect eye level when I am on my roll around milk stool.
Quote from: shelbydoug on July 11, 2020, 07:54:03 PM
Quote from: Royce Peterson on July 11, 2020, 06:19:19 PM
The upper and lower arms tilt at an extreme angle that doesn't allow installation of the front shocks if you do not follow the shop manual procedure. The shop manual tells you to support the upper control arm using the tool shown in order to remove or replace the front shocks. Alternatively you can use a floor jack on the lower arm and allow the weight of the car to hold it in place level with the wheel removed so the shock can be installed.
Yes I think you are right to post this Royce but it illustrates that this is trivially basic tech info? I am very suspicious of a shop who doesn't know this yet or purposely making grumbling sounds to an unsuspecting owner in order to take advantage of them.
Quote from: Royce Peterson on July 11, 2020, 10:01:14 PM
You need to get the front wheels off Bob. For me it's the easy way. You may have other ideas but the fact is many of us use a two post lift and this is how it is done.
Quote from: Bob Gaines on July 11, 2020, 08:19:54 PM
Quote from: Royce Peterson on July 11, 2020, 06:19:19 PM
The upper and lower arms tilt at an extreme angle that doesn't allow installation of the front shocks if you do not follow the shop manual procedure. The shop manual tells you to support the upper control arm using the tool shown in order to remove or replace the front shocks. Alternatively you can use a floor jack on the lower arm and allow the weight of the car to hold it in place level with the wheel removed so the shock can be installed.
Royce ,you and I both know that the useful tool you posted a illustration for is only needed if the suspension is unsupported or hanging. On the ground or on a four post lift it is not needed to change shocks . Of course we don't know if that is the issue but it could very well be. Redpony you should confirm if they have the car up in the air with the suspension hanging or on the ground or on a 4 post lift(one with ramps).if the suspension is hanging then that is the problem. I am suspicious like Doug that this might be the problem (suspension hanging which would make it hard to remove shocks) and the mechanics don't know any better. That is Mustang 101 and is scary if they don't know that. If that is the case then redpony needs to get his car out of there before they break something or over charge him because of the extra time it takes them to figure things out.
If you do it with a two post lift yes you need the support. If you do it on the ground or on a 4 post lift like many of us use for car storage then you don't need the support. The point I was trying to make is that there is another way which takes comparable time without using the support tool. Maybe not what you meant but it could be interpreted that you were trying to say that was the only way of doing it. FYI I always use the support tool when lifting up the front of the car to change tires etc. because it puts less stress on the upper shock and strut rod bushings . Original bushings are hard to find if having to replace. Many of the repro bushings will not take half the stress of a OEM and fail .
I am often installing NOS suspension parts like shocks or sway bar bushings and they do not like being overstressed. Or I am removing all the suspension for a restoration. Either way the wheels are off and the body is either supported by a lift or jack stands while the work is being done. Often I am removing or installing shocks to do something else like remove a spring or spring perch. So a variety of tools come into play.
In any case the shocks can't be installed if the suspension is hanging and that sounds like the issue presented by the OP.
Quote from: Bob Gaines on July 11, 2020, 10:34:11 PM
Quote from: Royce Peterson on July 11, 2020, 10:01:14 PM
You need to get the front wheels off Bob. For me it's the easy way. You may have other ideas but the fact is many of us use a two post lift and this is how it is done.
Quote from: Bob Gaines on July 11, 2020, 08:19:54 PM
Quote from: Royce Peterson on July 11, 2020, 06:19:19 PM
The upper and lower arms tilt at an extreme angle that doesn't allow installation of the front shocks if you do not follow the shop manual procedure. The shop manual tells you to support the upper control arm using the tool shown in order to remove or replace the front shocks. Alternatively you can use a floor jack on the lower arm and allow the weight of the car to hold it in place level with the wheel removed so the shock can be installed.
Royce ,you and I both know that the useful tool you posted a illustration for is only needed if the suspension is unsupported or hanging. On the ground or on a four post lift it is not needed to change shocks . Of course we don't know if that is the issue but it could very well be. Redpony you should confirm if they have the car up in the air with the suspension hanging or on the ground or on a 4 post lift(one with ramps).if the suspension is hanging then that is the problem. I am suspicious like Doug that this might be the problem (suspension hanging which would make it hard to remove shocks) and the mechanics don't know any better. That is Mustang 101 and is scary if they don't know that. If that is the case then redpony needs to get his car out of there before they break something or over charge him because of the extra time it takes them to figure things out.
If you do it with a two post lift yes you need the support. If you do it on the ground or on a 4 post lift like many of us use for car storage then you don't need the support. The point I was trying to make is that there is another way which takes comparable time without using the support tool. Maybe not what you meant but it could be interpreted that you were trying to say that was the only way of doing it. FYI I always use the support tool when lifting up the front of the car to change tires etc. because it puts less stress on the upper shock and strut rod bushings . Original bushings are hard to find if having to replace. Many of the repro bushings will not take half the stress of a OEM and fail .
Lets get to the root of the problem... Its the lack of knowledge and understanding of the shop or individual, that cant figure out how to install a shock on a Mustang. Pick up your checkbook and car, Then drive as fast and far as you can possibly go from that shop. Like Doug said in a direct sort of way, if you dont have a shop that is qualified to install a set of shocks on a 1960s car shame on you, or shame on them. Either way most of us were changing these things out when we were 14- 15 years old and all we had was a set of Crescent wrenches, Channel lock pliers, and a screw drivers to do any job. ;D
I am sure all this constructive help will encourage more participation on the forum.
God, I love a good free for all.
Quote from: 427heaven on July 12, 2020, 09:04:49 AM
Lets get to the root of the problem... Its the lack of knowledge and understanding of the shop or individual, that cant figure out how to install a shock on a Mustang. Pick up your checkbook and car, Then drive as fast and far as you can possibly go from that shop. Like Doug said in a direct sort of way, if you dont have a shop that is qualified to install a set of shocks on a 1960s car shame on you, or shame on them. Either way most of us were changing these things out when we were 14- 15 years old and all we had was a set of Crescent wrenches, Channel lock pliers, and a screw drivers to do any job. ;D
You had a set of channel lock pliers too.....WOW your family must have been rich :)
Quote from: Coralsnake on July 12, 2020, 09:41:01 AM
I am sure all this constructive help will encourage more participation on the forum.
God, I love a good free for all.
(https://emoticons.datahamster.com/argue.gif)
When was the last time a car with shock towers and suspension like this was produced in this country? I believe that was the 1980 Ford Granada and Mercury Monarch. That was 40 years ago! The majority of these cars probably left the road as daily drivers 20 years ago. That being said, the shop still should have knowledge of working on cars they choose to bring into their shop. Ironically, I had a guy I know call me and asked me this exact same question about 2 months ago. He was trying to install the shock with the suspension down. As soon as he jacked it up like I told him to, he had no issues. Given my age and time I started working on cars, (1980 or so) I consider myself very lucky because I got a taste of the old cars as well as the new technology coming along. I know mechanics 10 to 15 years younger than me that have no conception of a point ignition system and just look at them funny when they take the cap off. And the carburetors? What is that thing???😁
Quote from: Chris Thauberger on July 12, 2020, 09:57:12 AM
Quote from: Coralsnake on July 12, 2020, 09:41:01 AM
I am sure all this constructive help will encourage more participation on the forum.
God, I love a good free for all.
(https://emoticons.datahamster.com/argue.gif)
Yes, that is well documented...we noticed. ;)
Red Pony- We are not trying to run you off. We dont like the shops that are not fit to touch our cars. telling us we had great difficulty removing your old shocks. Go to another shop that works on older cars or just a mechanic that understands the most basic of mechanical workings. It is a 20 minute per shock if they know what they are doing. Dont pay for 8 hours to replace shocks because it is a SHELBY upcharge or old car upcharge. >:( I understand many on here dont work on their cars and dont know what it should take to do a certain task but there are many on here that have spent a life time working or playing with these cars and will be sure to help out in those areas. We try to help others stay informed, but when someone appears to be blatantly ignorant or stirring the pot, we quickly call them out on their shananigans.
Quote from: shelbydoug on July 11, 2020, 07:54:03 PM
Quote from: Royce Peterson on July 11, 2020, 06:19:19 PM
The upper and lower arms tilt at an extreme angle that doesn't allow installation of the front shocks if you do not follow the shop manual procedure. The shop manual tells you to support the upper control arm using the tool shown in order to remove or replace the front shocks. Alternatively you can use a floor jack on the lower arm and allow the weight of the car to hold it in place level with the wheel removed so the shock can be installed.
Yes I think you are right to post this Royce but it illustrates that this is trivially basic tech info? I am very suspicious of a shop who doesn't know this yet or purposely making grumbling sounds to an unsuspecting owner in order to take advantage of them.
+1, if your shop can't install a set of frt shocks , you should be running away...
FYI : early mustang how to install shocks
Good luck
https://www.google.com/search?q=how+to+change+shocks+on+1969+mustang&oq=how+to+change+shocks+on+1969+mustang&aqs=chrome..69i57j33l3.21154j0j4&client=ms-android-hms-tmobile-us&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#kpvalbx=_FjkLX_idEM-vggfSyL7IBA58
Quote from: redpony on July 11, 2020, 12:41:42 PM
Hello! I have my '68 GT500 at the shop and they are having some problems with the shocks. When they tried to take the worn ones off it was noted that they were very 'tight'. Probably took them awhile but once they got them off, they went to put a new set on and were faced with the reason that the other shocks were so difficult to remove. He stated that the angle was very extreme - basically if he were to put them on as intended, they would hit the towers - hence who ever put them on (40+ years ago - during which time the car has been in pretty much storage since) must have really had to use some force to get them to even bolt on. I told him I would check with the pros on this site and see if there is something unique about the installation, or perhaps a special tool was used - or perhaps the previous owner may have done some 'improper modifications' along the way. Thank you for your assistance.
Quote from: Royce Peterson on July 11, 2020, 06:19:19 PM
The upper and lower arms tilt at an extreme angle that doesn't allow installation of the front shocks if you do not follow the shop manual procedure. The shop manual tells you to support the upper control arm using the tool shown in order to remove or replace the front shocks. Alternatively you can use a floor jack on the lower arm and allow the weight of the car to hold it in place level with the wheel removed so the shock can be installed.
Slight detour: Is anyone making/selling this tool ...the travel-limiting strut for upper control arm ? Yes I could make a pair but id gladly buy a set to save time. Have used wood 2x4 in the past but works half-arsed. Someone should be selling these. I'd take 2 pair forvright price.
Quote from: aj on July 13, 2020, 07:30:44 PM
Quote from: Royce Peterson on July 11, 2020, 06:19:19 PM
The upper and lower arms tilt at an extreme angle that doesn't allow installation of the front shocks if you do not follow the shop manual procedure. The shop manual tells you to support the upper control arm using the tool shown in order to remove or replace the front shocks. Alternatively you can use a floor jack on the lower arm and allow the weight of the car to hold it in place level with the wheel removed so the shock can be installed.
Slight detour: Is anyone making/selling this tool ...the travel-limiting strut for upper control arm ? Yes I could make a pair but id gladly buy a set to save time. Have used wood 2x4 in the past but works half-arsed. Someone should be selling these. I'd take 2 pair forvright price.
I have had to make several sets over the years but it takes too much time for me to make them and price them to others . I don't know if these are the right price but Marcus makes them.http://anghelrestorations.com/parts.html
Can we get an update on this OP did Manny, Moe & Jack get this figured out or what ?
I will be dropping by the shop, probably tomorrow - to drop off a part. I'll see if he has finished working on the shocks yet. He's only working on the car during his slow times so he may not have started that yet. Hopefully with all of your suggestions, one of them will be helpful. He's making the car road-ready after 40 years of sitting so a few more weeks won't be a big deal if he hasn't gotten to it yet.