SAAC Forum

The Cars => 1969-1970 Shelby GT350/500 => Topic started by: Dan353 on July 18, 2020, 06:27:48 PM

Title: Hood screens
Post by: Dan353 on July 18, 2020, 06:27:48 PM
Does anyone know how the  screens where originally attached to the hood were they glued or screwed on?   If you would please post pictures.   Thank you
Dan
Title: Re: Hood screens
Post by: J_Speegle on July 18, 2020, 10:36:50 PM
Believe you will find that typically it depended on which screens your asking about. Might even help if we knew when your car was built (in this case converted as best you can tell)

Forward screen examples

(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/14/6-180720223624.jpeg)

Rearward screen examples

(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/14/6-180720223607.jpeg)
Title: Re: Hood screens
Post by: Dan353 on July 19, 2020, 01:51:33 PM
Jeff,  thank you for the pictures.  My car was built January 6 1969  I donít know when it was converted to a Shelby GT350.  Iím guessing from the pictures that the rear screens are glue only and the fronts are glued and have the two fasteners.  The screens on my car look like the pictures but are loose (one forward and one of the rears has half the glue missing) and need to be secured.  Is there any special tricks to installing them? It looks pretty straight forward. Thanks again for your help.
Thank you    Dan
 
Title: Re: Hood screens
Post by: Bob Gaines on July 19, 2020, 04:41:30 PM
Jeff,  thank you for the pictures.  My car was built January 6 1969  I donít know when it was converted to a Shelby GT350.  Iím guessing from the pictures that the rear screens are glue only and the fronts are glued and have the two fasteners.  The screens on my car look like the pictures but are loose (one forward and one of the rears has half the glue missing) and need to be secured.  Is there any special tricks to installing them? It looks pretty straight forward. Thanks again for your help.
Thank you    Dan
Fronts don't use glue. Two screws in the front and two screws in the back just like in the picture.
Title: Re: Hood screens
Post by: Dan353 on July 19, 2020, 06:22:21 PM
Thank you for the information Bob who ever installed my front screens used silicone.  What material was used to glue in the back screens?
Dan
Title: Re: Hood screens
Post by: Coralsnake on July 19, 2020, 06:58:11 PM
I believe its the same ted red bonding agent used to attach pieces of FRP together. (KR plenum glue)
Title: Re: Hood screens
Post by: Dan353 on July 21, 2020, 08:17:04 PM
 Sorry but I donít know what a Ted bonding agent is or what FRP stands for.  Is there a place to purchase these materials?  Or what else can be used to secure the screens
Title: Re: Hood screens
Post by: Bob Gaines on July 21, 2020, 08:30:56 PM
Sorry but I donít know what a Ted bonding agent is or what FRP stands for.  Is there a place to purchase these materials?  Or what else can be used to secure the screens
JB weld epoxy.
Title: Re: Hood screens
Post by: Special Ed on July 21, 2020, 10:12:29 PM
Pete is correct rear screens are bonded on same reddish brown sealant like 68 KR ram air chamber that was added to 68 Shelby  hood.
Title: Re: Hood screens
Post by: Coralsnake on July 22, 2020, 08:10:15 AM
ďTedĒ should have been red,  my apologies

FRP = fiberglass reinforced plastic ( shelby fiberglass)

http://www.thecoralsnake.com/FRP
Title: Re: Hood screens
Post by: Bob Gaines on July 22, 2020, 11:42:49 AM
JB weld can be tinted for the occasion.
Title: Re: Hood screens
Post by: shelbymann1970 on July 22, 2020, 02:50:42 PM
JB weld can be tinted for the occasion.
did they bond them before or after the underside black paint was done? Gary
Title: Re: Hood screens
Post by: Bob Gaines on July 22, 2020, 03:11:20 PM
JB weld can be tinted for the occasion.
did they bond them before or after the underside black paint was done? Gary
I believe after.
Title: Re: Hood screens
Post by: J_Speegle on July 22, 2020, 03:53:42 PM
Pete is correct rear screens are bonded on same reddish brown sealant like 68 KR ram air chamber that was added to 68 Shelby  hood.

Guess what is most important for the viewers is what finish is visible to the eye once the hood is complete and on the finished vehicle :)

Believe that is what shelbymann1970 is asking about.   

On the unrestored examples I have pictures of and the ones I've owned I didn't and don't see the almost red oxide colored sealant visible on the finished product/car. Will look through the collection again
Title: Re: Hood screens
Post by: Dan353 on July 23, 2020, 10:49:58 AM
I just wanted to say thank you to everyone for the information

Dan
Title: Re: Hood screens
Post by: TOBKOB on July 23, 2020, 11:27:12 AM
Quote
did they bond them before or after the underside black paint was done? Gary

Quote
I believe after.

+1
Title: Re: Hood screens
Post by: Coralsnake on July 23, 2020, 11:29:07 AM
Well played
Title: Re: Hood screens
Post by: shelbymann1970 on July 27, 2020, 01:38:35 PM
Quote
did they bond them before or after the underside black paint was done? Gary

Quote
I believe after.

+1
This picture makes me ask some questions. Workers are very industrious. They find ways to make their jobs easier and I have seen that first hand. So I was under the impression that the front clips were assembled then painted on the cars. Has this been the assumption? Now this picture shows a fender sitting on a rack painted. We also see what appears to be a guy masking up the front fenders to paint the headlight buckets dark gray. I do not see the grill or stone guard mounted. My POINT? Well in disassembly of my car for the first time ever it appeared my headlight buckets would have been painted without the stone guard or grill on as they had dark argent in the overlap area. Also while at one time someone painted my front area black the back side of my grill and the 2 little covered areas by the stone guard on my headlight buckets were dark argent(color matched at Painters supply as dark argent). This process of painting doesn't match some photos we have seen before. I am again bringing up the possibly by this photo that the workers found out it would be much easier to paint those other pieces off the car in batches instead of assembled on the car. Any thoughts? Gary
Title: Re: Hood screens
Post by: Coralsnake on July 27, 2020, 02:04:21 PM
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/8-270720140339.jpeg)
Title: Re: Hood screens
Post by: Coralsnake on July 27, 2020, 02:05:09 PM
Parts painted on a rack. This would be before masking shown above
Title: Re: Hood screens
Post by: Coralsnake on July 27, 2020, 02:08:28 PM
Front clips were painted, then assembled, then attached to the car. Picture shows a completely assembled front clip (only) on its way to car production line
Title: Re: Hood screens
Post by: Coralsnake on July 27, 2020, 02:09:31 PM
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/8-270720135706.jpeg)
Title: Re: Hood screens
Post by: Bob Gaines on July 27, 2020, 02:11:35 PM
Quote
did they bond them before or after the underside black paint was done? Gary

Quote
I believe after.

+1
This picture makes me ask some questions. Workers are very industrious. They find ways to make their jobs easier and I have seen that first hand. So I was under the impression that the front clips were assembled then painted on the cars. Has this been the assumption? Now this picture shows a fender sitting on a rack painted. We also see what appears to be a guy masking up the front fenders to paint the headlight buckets dark gray. I do not see the grill or stone guard mounted. My POINT? Well in disassembly of my car for the first time ever it appeared my headlight buckets would have been painted without the stone guard or grill on as they had dark argent in the overlap area. Also while at one time someone painted my front area black the back side of my grill and the 2 little covered areas by the stone guard on my headlight buckets were dark argent(color matched at Painters supply as dark argent). This process of painting doesn't match some photos we have seen before. I am again bringing up the possibly by this photo that the workers found out it would be much easier to paint those other pieces off the car in batches instead of assembled on the car. Any thoughts? Gary
Pete posted pictures (thank you) before I had time to post. The assumption is that the front clip was painted off of the car as a bolted together assembly. Other pictures yet show the entire front clip being held in a fixture and lowered on to the car to be installed in one piece. I have a local restoration shop that has followed the factory sequence on a number of occasions and found it to be the easiest way compared to separate painting and assembly on the car. The front end all together is relatively light and is easily and safely managed without the use of the lifting crane by 3 people . One on each fender and one on the front . One person could easily lift the entire assembly but given the size it does take more to safely manage the assembly into position on the car by hand.  My own observations indicates that the grill was painted black from the mfg and then typically painted the dark argent front side only . I have seen evidence in the form of overlapping paint witness lines that the grill at least some of the time not all of time was positioned in the nose prior to being bolted down and painted a second time . My guess being to cover scratches to the headlight buckets and surrounding areas that may have happened during positioning. After the touch up painting the grill was bolted down.
Title: Re: Hood screens
Post by: Coralsnake on July 27, 2020, 02:13:25 PM
I am here for you Mr Gaines
Title: Re: Hood screens
Post by: TOBKOB on July 27, 2020, 10:43:19 PM
Quote
did they bond them before or after the underside black paint was done? Gary

Quote
I believe after.

+1
This picture makes me ask some questions. Workers are very industrious. They find ways to make their jobs easier and I have seen that first hand. So I was under the impression that the front clips were assembled then painted on the cars. Has this been the assumption? Now this picture shows a fender sitting on a rack painted. We also see what appears to be a guy masking up the front fenders to paint the headlight buckets dark gray. I do not see the grill or stone guard mounted. My POINT? Well in disassembly of my car for the first time ever it appeared my headlight buckets would have been painted without the stone guard or grill on as they had dark argent in the overlap area. Also while at one time someone painted my front area black the back side of my grill and the 2 little covered areas by the stone guard on my headlight buckets were dark argent(color matched at Painters supply as dark argent). This process of painting doesn't match some photos we have seen before. I am again bringing up the possibly by this photo that the workers found out it would be much easier to paint those other pieces off the car in batches instead of assembled on the car. Any thoughts? Gary
Maybe this will help... :)

TOB

Title: Re: Hood screens
Post by: TOBKOB on July 27, 2020, 10:45:06 PM
Quote
did they bond them before or after the underside black paint was done? Gary

Quote
I believe after.

+1
This picture makes me ask some questions. Workers are very industrious. They find ways to make their jobs easier and I have seen that first hand. So I was under the impression that the front clips were assembled then painted on the cars. Has this been the assumption? Now this picture shows a fender sitting on a rack painted. We also see what appears to be a guy masking up the front fenders to paint the headlight buckets dark gray. I do not see the grill or stone guard mounted. My POINT? Well in disassembly of my car for the first time ever it appeared my headlight buckets would have been painted without the stone guard or grill on as they had dark argent in the overlap area. Also while at one time someone painted my front area black the back side of my grill and the 2 little covered areas by the stone guard on my headlight buckets were dark argent(color matched at Painters supply as dark argent). This process of painting doesn't match some photos we have seen before. I am again bringing up the possibly by this photo that the workers found out it would be much easier to paint those other pieces off the car in batches instead of assembled on the car. Any thoughts? Gary
Pete posted pictures (thank you) before I had time to post. The assumption is that the front clip was painted off of the car as a bolted together assembly. Other pictures yet show the entire front clip being held in a fixture and lowered on to the car to be installed in one piece. I have a local restoration shop that has followed the factory sequence on a number of occasions and found it to be the easiest way compared to separate painting and assembly on the car. The front end all together is relatively light and is easily and safely managed without the use of the lifting crane by 3 people . One on each fender and one on the front . One person could easily lift the entire assembly but given the size it does take more to safely manage the assembly into position on the car by hand.  My own observations indicates that the grill was painted black from the mfg and then typically painted the dark argent front side only . I have seen evidence in the form of overlapping paint witness lines that the grill at least some of the time not all of time was positioned in the nose prior to being bolted down and painted a second time . My guess being to cover scratches to the headlight buckets and surrounding areas that may have happened during positioning. After the touch up painting the grill was bolted down.
This may answer some questions... :)

TOB


Title: Re: Hood screens
Post by: J_Speegle on July 27, 2020, 11:14:28 PM
This may answer some questions... :)

TOB

Got to love the two wood tool boxes tossed/set on the air cleaner :)
Title: Re: Hood screens
Post by: Bob Gaines on July 27, 2020, 11:16:30 PM
Quote
did they bond them before or after the underside black paint was done? Gary

Quote
I believe after.

+1
picture makes me ask some questions. Workers are very industrious. They find ways to make their jobs easier and I have seen that first hand. So I was under the impression that the front clips were assembled then painted on the cars. Has this been the assumption? Now this picture shows a fender sitting on a rack painted. We also see what appears to be a guy masking up the front fenders to paint the headlight buckets dark gray. I do not see the grill or stone guard mounted. My POINT? Well in disassembly of my car for the first time ever it appeared my headlight buckets would have been painted without the stone guard or grill on as they had dark argent in the overlap area. Also while at one time someone painted my front area black the back side of my grill and the 2 little covered areas by the stone guard on my headlight buckets were dark argent(color matched at Painters supply as dark argent). This process of painting doesn't match some photos we have seen before. I am again bringing up the possibly by this photo that the workers found out it would be much easier to paint those other pieces off the car in batches instead of assembled on the car. Any thoughts? Gary
Maybe this will help... :)

TOB
Reply #24 picture shows when a grill may have been painted twice. Once off of the car prior to install then possibly a second time if when installing some scratches with the minimal clearance between the grill and headlight bucket occured. I say this because if the grill was painted in place then it would leave a unpainted witness line of the grill mesh pattern on a portion of the headlight bucket. If you take one apart it is typically painted completely grey behind the grill mesh. I have found on some but not all cars where you see a witness line of a slight shadow of gray mesh pattern which would only occur if the the bucket was already painted grey but then a second coat of grey was sprayed through the mesh. This picture could of course also be that the grill had been successfully positioned with out scratching the surrounding fiberglass and consequently didn't need the touch up second coat on the grill. The grill is ready for the install of grill bolts/ hardware,race track, fog lights and valance black out to be done prior to install on the car.
Title: Re: Hood screens
Post by: Coralsnake on July 28, 2020, 06:16:38 AM
Quote
Got to love the two wood tool boxes tossed/set on the air cleaner :)

In another photo you can see carpeting on the bottom of these tool boxes
Title: Re: Hood screens
Post by: Special Ed on July 28, 2020, 10:36:12 AM
I recently color matched the unique 69 Shelby grey grill paint from a nos (leftover from the aosmith plant) stoneguard that was damaged but never installed and it isn't the 1970 dark argent grey instead its a previous ford color we found in color charts from the paint shop. I will be selling some cans shortly along with my 70 Shelby hood stripe 4 part stencil kit copy from an nos stencil out of the KK plant. The stoneguard ,grill, headlight rings were painted somehow not attached to fenders then after fenders were mounted and lined up the hheadlights and buckets and wire were installed then front splashshields and metal braces that bolt to fender wishbones. Then the stoneguard and grill were lined up and 6  bolts installed and then headlight rings install last with 6 black oxide screws. Every original paint car I inspected had paint scratch marks left in grey painted area above headlight buckets top side from when grill was installed after the headlight buckets were painted grey. There are oblong holes in grill top bar and headlight buckets for adjustments after fenders were installed so grey paint had to be under stoneguard and top grill bar areas otherwise different color would show up in the gaps after grill and stoneguard adjustments.
Title: Re: Hood screens
Post by: shelbymann1970 on August 04, 2020, 12:53:23 PM
I recently color matched the unique 69 Shelby grey grill paint from a nos (leftover from the aosmith plant) stoneguard that was damaged but never installed and it isn't the 1970 dark argent grey instead its a previous ford color we found in color charts from the paint shop. I will be selling some cans shortly along with my 70 Shelby hood stripe 4 part stencil kit copy from an nos stencil out of the KK plant. The stoneguard ,grill, headlight rings were painted somehow not attached to fenders then after fenders were mounted and lined up the hheadlights and buckets and wire were installed then front splashshields and metal braces that bolt to fender wishbones. Then the stoneguard and grill were lined up and 6  bolts installed and then headlight rings install last with 6 black oxide screws. Every original paint car I inspected had paint scratch marks left in grey painted area above headlight buckets top side from when grill was installed after the headlight buckets were painted grey. There are oblong holes in grill top bar and headlight buckets for adjustments after fenders were installed so grey paint had to be under stoneguard and top grill bar areas otherwise different color would show up in the gaps after grill and stoneguard adjustments.
you mention the stencil kit. Have you ever took numbers on the variations of the hood stripes? Mine were wide like the Larry L pic below. Can't argue with history.  ;D  Gary
 Also when disassembling my Vert in 1996 I, too found gray paint under the stone guard on my headlight buckets as a prior owner had painted all the gray areas assembled  satin black at one time. The back of the grill and that area on the head light bucket I took to a painters supply and they color matched it and told me it was dark argent metallic. The daubs they put on the original paint on both pieces sure matched to me.....Are the colors that close?
Title: Re: Hood screens
Post by: Special Ed on August 04, 2020, 03:17:41 PM
Gary when u bring your 70 Shelby to our 50th 1970 Shelby boss show u can look at 2 70 unrestored gt500s a 7000 and 500 mile original shelbys.  The hood stripes are 5 1/4''     11"       16 1/4''      11"       5  1/4" rear  and  1  5/16"    21 13/16''    1 5/16''  front in the registry book drawing. But most repainted 70 shelbys I see are wrong on the front width they paint stripe 15/16''  of which they are reading the drawing wrong  just look at spacing in drawing as the is a small gap between the 1 and 5  so its 1 5/16'' not 15/16".  I had 70 original paint car owners measure the gap and my notes always read between 1 1/4'' and 1 1/2''  BUT NEVER under 1 1/4''.  I am sure after a while Larry  L. could just guess at the widths.
Title: Re: Hood screens
Post by: Special Ed on August 04, 2020, 04:22:03 PM
Just looked at page 1286  97 registry  hood stripes drawing and I see now why restorers are getting front hood stripe width wrong as the description to the left of drawing says leading edge of hood stripe is  15/16'' wide then both stripes are 21  3/16''   so both those measurements are wrong as they should be 1 5/16''      and 21  13/16''    so drawing is correct (if u read it correctly)  but description is wrong.
Title: Re: Hood screens
Post by: nate on August 04, 2020, 06:04:45 PM
Photo of error
Title: Re: Hood screens
Post by: Special Ed on August 04, 2020, 07:48:18 PM
See the gap spacing between 1 and 5  then look at 1 and 6 those #s are tight together  so  its 1 5/16''  NOT 15/16''  Now read the description wrote to left of drawing and u can see the 2 measurement mistakes and this is why so many repainted cars have the 15/16'' front stripe mistake.
Title: Re: Hood screens
Post by: cbrown on August 04, 2020, 08:57:20 PM
We have one in shop right now that needs corrected.  Thanks to Ed I might be able to make it happen!!
Chris
Title: Re: Hood screens
Post by: Special Ed on August 04, 2020, 10:12:04 PM
After I send u my new 70 Shelby hood stripe 4 piece layout. I sent first set to bob Wilson as he is painting a 70 hood next week for  a Shelby coming to our show.   I will be painting 2 70 Shelby hoods later this month.
Title: Re: Hood screens
Post by: Bob Gaines on August 04, 2020, 10:24:02 PM
I still have my Larry Lawrence original hood strip templates on 3M paper that I got back sometime in the 80's. Just pulled them out of the tube that I keep them in since we are talking about them. They are still flexible.
Title: Re: Hood screens
Post by: shelbymann1970 on August 05, 2020, 03:26:57 PM
Gary when u bring your 70 Shelby to our 50th 1970 Shelby boss show u can look at 2 70 unrestored gt500s a 7000 and 500 mile original shelbys.  The hood stripes are 5 1/4''     11"       16 1/4''      11"       5  1/4" rear  and  1  5/16"    21 13/16''    1 5/16''  front in the registry book drawing. But most repainted 70 shelbys I see are wrong on the front width they paint stripe 15/16''  of which they are reading the drawing wrong  just look at spacing in drawing as the is a small gap between the 1 and 5  so its 1 5/16'' not 15/16".  I had 70 original paint car owners measure the gap and my notes always read between 1 1/4'' and 1 1/2''  BUT NEVER under 1 1/4''.  I am sure after a while Larry  L. could just guess at the widths.
I know my car did NOT have the original paint on it when I bought it in 1985 BUT and BUT under the hood was still factory paint and inside the trunk was still factory paint(fenders under hood and HL buckets so I knew where they masked off for the gray). Door jambs were painted that non original maroon and the "P" sticker on the DS upper jamb was very much visible. What I did note was that my hood stripes were LOWER than the repaint and the back edge of the pass side stripe was burned through to CA red paint which meant to me the stripes were the originals and back taped when my car was painted. They even masked off one of my SHELBY rear quarter emblems on the repaint so I used this as a guide to reinstall my quarter emblems. To be clear my car was NEVER stripped and repainted as CA red was under the "maroon" that was on it. My stripe width matched perfectly to the SAAC registry except the "15/16" so to speak. Now I'll have to go measure when I get home. LOL. Gary