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SAAC Forum => SAAC Forum Discussion Area => Topic started by: dggilbert on July 26, 2020, 05:31:44 PM

Title: ENOUGH! Bill Kolb Jr recommended KR, SHELBY flat out lied! Does the truth matter
Post by: dggilbert on July 26, 2020, 05:31:44 PM
During an amazing mecum auction I was reminded, after Bill Stephens read the tired old narrative that Carroll had his lawyer beat Chevy to the trademark office, the historical record is as phony as a 3 dollar bill, compliments of the snake oil salesman. Growing up at Tasca I only ever heard about the KR8, which my father built, being a Tasca creation. It wasn't until I read the Shelby version I realized it was all a lie! We all know the story of Shelby's lawyer running to the trademark office to beat Chevy to the punch and secure the "King of the Road" moniker, NEVER HAPPENED! Not only did Shelby not trademark it but neither did Chevy, Ford, or Tasca! Roger Miller was the first, go look for yourself. The infamous Bill Kolb Jr, a very good friend of the Tasca's, recommended the KR for the 1968 GT500 428 CJ powered Shelby not Carroll Shelby, who had much less influence at that point. In a letter from Shelby Auto Marketing, Ray Geddes thanks Bill Kolb Jr for his recent recommendations made at a marketing forum in Dearborn. A quote from Geddes "Many of the recommendations you made at the Mar 19, 1968 meeting have been passed on to senior management, including the GT350-500 series for at least the 69-70 model years. In accordance with your recommendations,  WE HAVE DESIGNATED THE 428CJ SHELBY GT AS THE GT500KR!! Can someone with more pull than I please check these facts and correct the narrative so the history of this amazing model can be truth not fiction?!?! This narrative is a complete falsehood with absolutely no basis in fact and needs to be corrected before all who can verify the truth are gone. Please don't shoot the messenger.
Title: Re: ENOUGH! Bill Kolb Jr recommended KR, SHELBY flat out lied! Does the truth matter
Post by: shelbydoug on July 26, 2020, 05:39:31 PM
During an amazing mecum auction I was reminded, after Bill Stephens read the tired old narrative that Carroll had his lawyer beat Chevy to the trademark office, the historical record is as phony as a 3 dollar bill, compliments of the snake oil salesman. Growing up at Tasca I only ever heard about the KR8, which my father built, being a Tasca creation. It wasn't until I read the Shelby version I realized it was all a lie! We all know the story of Shelby's lawyer running to the trademark office to beat Chevy to the punch and secure the "King of the Road" moniker, NEVER HAPPENED! Not only did Shelby not trademark it but neither did Chevy, Ford, or Tasca! Roger Miller was the first, go look for yourself. The infamous Bill Kolb Jr, a very good friend of the Tasca's, recommended the KR for the 1968 GT500 428 CJ powered Shelby not Carroll Shelby, who had much less influence at that point. In a letter from Shelby Auto Marketing, Ray Geddes thanks Bill Kolb Jr for his recent recommendations made at a marketing forum in Dearborn. A quote from Geddes "Many of the recommendations you made at the Mar 19, 1968 meeting have been passed on to senior management, including the GT350-500 series for at least the 69-70 model years. In accordance with your recommendations,  WE HAVE DESIGNATED THE 428CJ SHELBY GT AS THE GT500KR!! Can someone with more pull than I please check these facts and correct the narrative so the history of this amazing model can be truth not fiction?!?! This narrative is a complete falsehood with absolutely no basis in fact and needs to be corrected before all who can verify the truth are gone. Please don't shoot the messenger.

Next you are going to tell me that the tale of the headless horseman is a fantasy too?

What a bummer. Do you go to kids parties and pop the balloons?  :o

Leave it be.
Title: Re: ENOUGH! Bill Kolb Jr recommended KR, SHELBY flat out lied! Does the truth matter
Post by: Bill on July 26, 2020, 05:58:32 PM
Didn't we go round and round with this here:
http://www.saacforum.com/index.php?topic=1638.msg14183#msg14183

Perhaps we can get your new post merged with the original thread
Title: Re: ENOUGH! Bill Kolb Jr recommended KR, SHELBY flat out lied! Does the truth matter
Post by: Coralsnake on July 26, 2020, 06:28:44 PM
Unfortunately, there are many stories that are incomplete or just wrong. Those that have studied, know the truth. Others copy and paste.

See it everyday on this forum.   
Title: Re: ENOUGH! Bill Kolb Jr recommended KR, SHELBY flat out lied! Does the truth matter
Post by: 427heaven on July 26, 2020, 07:11:13 PM
If your father built the first KR you can cherish that, and carry it with you for a lifetime. But as with most all of OL SHELS life, most of it is half truths to complete BULL SH.. How he got the Cobra name that came to him in a dream... to the GT 350 moniker came from the engine room was 350 feet from where they were standing. He had the gift of gab and we for the most part accept history with all the crossed up sideways dealings, the chicken rancher either said or did. It is all part of the SHELBY lore, and like BLACK BEARD the PIRATE that came before... Some of what history has said is true, the rest just fills in the story line of a man with a dream. (CS)  At this point in time most of those that were there in the beginning are gone, and their stories, just like the mens faces fade into the sunset. So if someone like wild Bill at the auction embelishes a bit on the story line I dont think most give it any 2nd thoughts. It just adds to the already wild ride that is our cars.
Title: Re: ENOUGH! Bill Kolb Jr recommended KR, SHELBY flat out lied! Does the truth matter
Post by: Chris Thauberger on July 26, 2020, 07:15:03 PM
Unfortunately, there are many stories that are incomplete or just wrong. Those that have studied, know the truth. Others copy and paste.

See it everyday on this forum.

AMEN
Title: Re: ENOUGH! Bill Kolb Jr recommended KR, SHELBY flat out lied! Does the truth matter
Post by: dggilbert on July 26, 2020, 08:21:18 PM
Sorry you consider my father's legacy and one of the most innovative and economical performance upgrades in automotive history popping balloons at the party. With regards to the 428CJ, on a scale of 1-10 Tasca was a 10 and Shelby a 1. Most period articles credit Tasca for the KR moniker that is undisputed to most outside this site. But I'll end with the only facts, Roger Miller first trademarked "King of the Road" on April 29,1969, not Shelby, Chevy, Ford or Tasca. In a letter dated May 28, 1968 Ray Geddes, Manager of Shelby Auto Marketing,  thanked Bill Kolb Jr for his KR recommendation on the end of GT500. For those who don't already know, between Larsen Ford(319 Shelbys) and Gotham Ford(479 Shebys) sold a total of 798 Shelby branded cars and was the reason he was invited to participate in a special Shelby marketing forum for Ford executives on Mar 19, 1968. Of course you all knew that, history is great and even better when it's accurate. What's next who cares about nos parts? Truth is truth, sorry about all the balloons.
Title: Re: ENOUGH! Bill Kolb Jr recommended KR, SHELBY flat out lied! Does the truth matter
Post by: shelbydoug on July 26, 2020, 08:47:13 PM
Sorry you consider my father's legacy and one of the most innovative and economical performance upgrades in automotive history popping balloons at the party. With regards to the 428CJ, on a scale of 1-10 Tasca was a 10 and Shelby a 1. Most period articles credit Tasca for the KR moniker that is undisputed to most outside this site. But I'll end with the only facts, Roger Miller first trademarked "King of the Road" on April 29,1969, not Shelby, Chevy, Ford or Tasca. In a letter dated May 28, 1968 Ray Geddes, Manager of Shelby Auto Marketing,  thanked Bill Kolb Jr for his KR recommendation on the end of GT500. For those who don't already know, between Larsen Ford(319 Shelbys) and Gotham Ford(479 Shebys) sold a total of 798 Shelby branded cars and was the reason he was invited to participate in a special Shelby marketing forum for Ford executives on Mar 19, 1968. Of course you all knew that, history is great and even better when it's accurate. What's next who cares about nos parts? Truth is truth, sorry about all the balloons.

If you want to come here and start a fight with someone, it isn't me. If you are pissed off at the world, join the club but go beat up your wife or kick the dog and get the heck out of here.

Go write a complaint letter to the appropriate department. See if they care.

We don't need another sorry ass troll here.

Title: Re: ENOUGH! Bill Kolb Jr recommended KR, SHELBY flat out lied! Does the truth matter
Post by: Bob Gaines on July 26, 2020, 09:07:48 PM
[color=red]Sorry you consider my father's legacy and one of the most innovative and economical performance upgrades in automotive history popping balloons at the party. [/color]With regards to the 428CJ, on a scale of 1-10 Tasca was a 10 and Shelby a 1. Most period articles credit Tasca for the KR moniker that is undisputed to most outside this site. But I'll end with the only facts, Roger Miller first trademarked "King of the Road" on April 29,1969, not Shelby, Chevy, Ford or Tasca. In a letter dated May 28, 1968 Ray Geddes, Manager of Shelby Auto Marketing,  thanked Bill Kolb Jr for his KR recommendation on the end of GT500. For those who don't already know, between Larsen Ford(319 Shelbys) and Gotham Ford(479 Shebys) sold a total of 798 Shelby branded cars and was the reason he was invited to participate in a special Shelby marketing forum for Ford executives on Mar 19, 1968. Of course you all knew that, history is great and even better when it's accurate. What's next who cares about nos parts? Truth is truth, sorry about all the balloons.
I think that you were ready for someone to shoot the messenger and when none did you carried on as if. After reading all of the posts including the one sarcastic one which was meant in jest in a positive way toward your narrative I don't see anyone saying disparaging remarks toward your farther ,Tasca or your narrative. On the contrary the posts seemed to be in agreement to the truth being stretched by Shelby. The majority of us have learned the CS history all to well. You have a great legacy to be proud of regardless of if the KR story gets sorted out in the future or not.
Title: Re: ENOUGH! Bill Kolb Jr recommended KR, SHELBY flat out lied! Does the truth matter
Post by: 68krrrr on July 26, 2020, 09:11:17 PM
If your father built the first KR you can cherish that, and carry it with you for a lifetime. But as with most all of OL SHELS life, most of it is half truths to complete BULL SH.. How he got the Cobra name that came to him in a dream... to the GT 350 moniker came from the engine room was 350 feet from where they were standing. He had the gift of gab and we for the most part accept history with all the crossed up sideways dealings, the chicken rancher either said or did. It is all part of the SHELBY lore, and like BLACK BEARD the PIRATE that came before... Some of what history has said is true, the rest just fills in the story line of a man with a dream. (CS)  At this point in time most of those that were there in the beginning are gone, and their stories, just like the mens faces fade into the sunset. So if someone like wild Bill at the auction embelishes a bit on the story line I dont think most give it any 2nd thoughts. It just adds to the already wild ride that is our cars.

Perfectly said & just part of the history that we love & why were all here
Title: Re: ENOUGH! Bill Kolb Jr recommended KR, SHELBY flat out lied! Does the truth matter
Post by: papa scoops on July 26, 2020, 09:12:35 PM
WHAT! no easter bunny???? phred
Title: Re: ENOUGH! Bill Kolb Jr recommended KR, SHELBY flat out lied! Does the truth matter
Post by: trotrof1 on July 26, 2020, 10:20:11 PM
What do you think a week or two with Elon Musk would be like? Probably make ole CS look like a choir boy.
Title: Re: ENOUGH! Bill Kolb Jr recommended KR, SHELBY flat out lied! Does the truth matter
Post by: TA Coupe on July 27, 2020, 03:41:41 AM
Let's lighten up things a little bit. Do any of you know the true meaning for the car GLHS? I know what Carroll told me when I was sitting with him at the SEMA show in Vegas in 1988 or 89.

   Roy
Title: Re: ENOUGH! Bill Kolb Jr recommended KR, SHELBY flat out lied! Does the truth matter
Post by: Coralsnake on July 27, 2020, 07:07:40 AM
Have to agree. On the whopper scale this probably doesnt make the top five of Shelby’s fabrications.

I understand this is important to you, because your dad was involved. To most people its a footnote in a long sorted story.

Remember when Shelby “found” a bunch of “unbuilt” 427 Cobra chassis and “NOS” parts to build them? Funny how he had misplaced them until the point the prices had risen to (then) historical highs.

Mr Gaines correctly pointed out,  you’re not going to get a fight here. But, you might get questions about your approach and style.

Maybe you should write your own book? Let us know if you need some help...
Title: Re: ENOUGH! Bill Kolb Jr recommended KR, SHELBY flat out lied! Does the truth matter
Post by: Royce Peterson on July 27, 2020, 07:51:52 AM
Carroll Shelby did the best he could with what he had. Everything about him and his business was about selling the story and getting results. In today's over scrutinized and humorless world it doesn't look as good as it did then. Rewriting his story to be politically correct is not going to save anything or improve anything.

Eat a bowl of Shelby's chili. It's good stuff. He made a ton of money with it and didn't invent anything.
Title: Re: ENOUGH! Bill Kolb Jr recommended KR, SHELBY flat out lied! Does the truth matter
Post by: shelbyhertz66 on July 27, 2020, 08:52:51 AM
Just be happy they are talking about Shelbys and not Pintos
Title: Re: ENOUGH! Bill Kolb Jr recommended KR, SHELBY flat out lied! Does the truth matter
Post by: shelbydoug on July 27, 2020, 09:29:05 AM
Just be happy they are talking about Shelbys and not Pintos

You starting up with us Pinto owners?  >:(
Title: Re: ENOUGH! Bill Kolb Jr recommended KR, SHELBY flat out lied! Does the truth matter
Post by: gt350hr on July 27, 2020, 11:08:51 AM
   For those of you who don't know , when CS was invited to the '75 SOA convention, his "memory" was not as good as it was in the last 20 years of his life. Back then "HE" speculated the 350 came from the horsepower the race engine made and the 350 ft idea "didn't sound right". So did he have amnesia in '75? No , he just had to read the P.T. Barnum book. He was a different man back then and was totally surprised "by the interest in my old cars" as he spoke at that banquet. As his popularity grew again , he took on a different persona. Enter Carroll "the opportunist" for the second time. He could make money by just being Carroll Shelby!. This led to the "leftover' Cobras and the rebirth of SAI. CS "remembered" all kinds of things like "experimental aluminum driveshafts" on '67s (NOT) and sent a letter to the NHRA stating that. MANY other things "he remembered" were embellished as well.
     WE wouldn't have the cars and be here now if it weren't for him but he really "worked the crowd" to his benefit after he was "reborn".
Title: Re: ENOUGH! Bill Kolb Jr recommended KR, SHELBY flat out lied! Does the truth matter
Post by: Coralsnake on July 27, 2020, 11:20:47 AM
Actually, I think it was the readers of Hot Rod magazine that convinced Ford to build the Cobra Jet.

🤨
Title: Re: ENOUGH! Bill Kolb Jr recommended KR, SHELBY flat out lied! Does the truth matter
Post by: Greg on July 27, 2020, 11:22:51 AM
Let's lighten up things a little bit. Do any of you know the true meaning for the car GLHS? I know what Carroll told me when I was sitting with him at the SEMA show in Vegas in 1988 or 89.

   Roy

Don't leave us hanging Roy, share what he told you  :)
Title: Re: ENOUGH! Bill Kolb Jr recommended KR, SHELBY flat out lied! Does the truth matter
Post by: OldMil on July 27, 2020, 11:27:28 AM
Let's lighten up things a little bit. Do any of you know the true meaning for the car GLHS? I know what Carroll told me when I was sitting with him at the SEMA show in Vegas in 1988 or 89.

   Roy

Don't leave us hanging Roy, share what he told you  :)

Guess- Goes Like Hell Sh*t-box ?
Title: Re: ENOUGH! Bill Kolb Jr recommended KR, SHELBY flat out lied! Does the truth matter
Post by: FL SAAC on July 27, 2020, 11:32:05 AM
He has risen....can we get an amen hallelujah.. 

   For those of you who don't know , when CS was invited to the '75 SOA convention, his "memory" was not as good as it was in the last 20 years of his life. Back then "HE" speculated the 350 came from the horsepower the race engine made and the 350 ft idea "didn't sound right". So did he have amnesia in '75? No , he just had to read the P.T. Barnum book. He was a different man back then and was totally surprised "by the interest in my old cars" as he spoke at that banquet. As his popularity grew again , he took on a different persona. Enter Carroll "the opportunist" for the second time. He could make money by just being Carroll Shelby!. This led to the "leftover' Cobras and the rebirth of SAI. CS "remembered" all kinds of things like "experimental aluminum driveshafts" on '67s (NOT) and sent a letter to the NHRA stating that. MANY other things "he remembered" were embellished as well.
     WE wouldn't have the cars and be here now if it weren't for him but he really "worked the crowd" to his benefit after he was "reborn".
Title: Re: ENOUGH! Bill Kolb Jr recommended KR, SHELBY flat out lied! Does the truth matter
Post by: shelbydoug on July 27, 2020, 01:20:26 PM
   For those of you who don't know , when CS was invited to the '75 SOA convention, his "memory" was not as good as it was in the last 20 years of his life. Back then "HE" speculated the 350 came from the horsepower the race engine made and the 350 ft idea "didn't sound right". So did he have amnesia in '75? No , he just had to read the P.T. Barnum book. He was a different man back then and was totally surprised "by the interest in my old cars" as he spoke at that banquet. As his popularity grew again , he took on a different persona. Enter Carroll "the opportunist" for the second time. He could make money by just being Carroll Shelby!. This led to the "leftover' Cobras and the rebirth of SAI. CS "remembered" all kinds of things like "experimental aluminum driveshafts" on '67s (NOT) and sent a letter to the NHRA stating that. MANY other things "he remembered" were embellished as well.
     WE wouldn't have the cars and be here now if it weren't for him but he really "worked the crowd" to his benefit after he was "reborn".

Long periods under anastesia effect long term memory. The heart transplant for one surgery account for that alone.

He definitely was not a perfect human being by any stretch of the imagination but there in lies a tale?

The film Ford v Ferrari is actually quite kind to at least Ken Miles and probably Carroll too? Ken was known for his aggressive behaviors and that was actually the crux of the issue Bebe had with him.

That was all a very long time ago and I for one can't think of ever having a perfect person as a friend but I can think of those who I miss, warts and all, and wish still were around. Shelby and Miles are certainly two up there somewhere on my list?


As far as who is responsible for the KR, it doesn't matter. It exists and is just part of the Shelby legend and mystique. Arguing over it can do two things. One disparage it. Two, the controversy can bring it more into the eyes of the public in general, which is probably a good thing.

Here's to the good things.
Title: Re: ENOUGH! Bill Kolb Jr recommended KR, SHELBY flat out lied! Does the truth matter
Post by: Coralsnake on July 27, 2020, 01:29:26 PM
His first six wifes would probably agree he was not perfect.

 ;)
Title: Re: ENOUGH! Bill Kolb Jr recommended KR, SHELBY flat out lied! Does the truth matter
Post by: shelbydoug on July 27, 2020, 01:42:29 PM
His first six wifes would probably agree he was not perfect.

 ;)

They only married him to get a Cobra.
Title: Re: ENOUGH! Bill Kolb Jr recommended KR, SHELBY flat out lied! Does the truth matter
Post by: Greg on July 27, 2020, 02:16:06 PM
I get it that you want the record to be set straight as you put it, but unless you or I were in the room, a story rarely ever gets told 100% straight. 

At the end of the day, Shelby's name is on the car therefore, it will always be regarded as his.  Would the KR been born without him, who knows, but it is in the history books because of him (being a great snake oil salesman :)). 

It has been my experience that most of the behind the scenes folks don't get the credit they deserve. Does this mean that CS is a bad guy, no it just makes him human because he made a living from marketing his name and legacy.  I think this could be said of others for every industry from personal computers, cell phones to clothing. 

Relax, there are way more important things to get twisted up about than this. 
Title: Re: ENOUGH! Bill Kolb Jr recommended KR, SHELBY flat out lied! Does the truth matter
Post by: Chad on July 27, 2020, 03:25:13 PM
Bottom line if it had not been for Carroll Shelby there never would have been a KR much less a GT500 so he is responsible for everything that came out of SA, whether he named it or not!!!
Title: Re: ENOUGH! Bill Kolb Jr recommended KR, SHELBY flat out lied! Does the truth matter
Post by: Side-Oilers on July 27, 2020, 03:59:14 PM
As Doug said, "warts and all".  I spent a lot of time with Carroll over the years, worked for him, wrote about him, traveled with him, etc.

I loved the guy.  He was one of a kind, and literally the most interesting man I've ever known.

Yes, he got more irascible as he aged. He did some things that I don't agree with.  But my admiration of what he accomplished with those early cars and racing has never diminished.

None of us would be doing these Shelby car things we enjoy so much if not for CS. Because there would never have been any Shelby cars to do them with.  I'd probably be a Corvette guy instead. (I've owned a C1, two C2s, two C3s and a C6, but I'm still first and foremost a "Shelby guy.")

Pick at his bones if it makes you feel better.  That's not how I care to spend my time.  Plenty of other things on earth these days to be concerned about. 
Anything "Shelby" for me is part of my fun.
Title: Re: ENOUGH! Bill Kolb Jr recommended KR, SHELBY flat out lied! Does the truth matter
Post by: Steve McDonald Formally known as Mcdonas on July 27, 2020, 04:06:30 PM
I heard he could talk birds out of tree and women out of their panties, two skills I have tried but certainly did not have the skill set he had. Imagine if he didn't  B/S his way into Ford to get an engine or two and charm AC Cars out out of a car, none of us would be on the forum and talking about the bits and pieces of Shelby history. I don't see the Yenko forum having this much discussion (if it even exists) or the Motion Performance or Nickey Chevrolet, all great cars in their own right, but Shelby was able to capture lightening in a bottle, package it and sell it.
God bless that old chicken farming, snake oil salesman, race car driving, Texan, without him we wouldn't have such great cars, amazing stories and fond memories. Heroes' always die but legends live forever, to me Shelby is a legend.
I think I'll take the car out for a ride this evening 
Title: Re: ENOUGH! Bill Kolb Jr recommended KR, SHELBY flat out lied! Does the truth matter
Post by: Side-Oilers on July 27, 2020, 04:14:40 PM
^^+1 Steve^^

I hope the next thing, in our politically-correct & humorless society, isn't to want to desecrate CS because of his often colorful language and down-home sayings. 

The order he gave me (when I was his personal PR man at the '91 Indy 500) about how clean he wanted the Viper Pace Car still makes me laugh:

"I want that car as shiny as a kernel of corn in a goat's ass."

Tell me that isn't priceless.
Title: Re: ENOUGH! Bill Kolb Jr recommended KR, SHELBY flat out lied! Does the truth matter
Post by: Greg on July 27, 2020, 04:34:45 PM
^^+1 Steve^^

I hope the next thing, in our politically-correct & humorless society, isn't to want to desecrate CS because of his often colorful language and down-home sayings. 

The order he gave me (when I was his personal PR man at the '91 Indy 500) about how clean he wanted the Viper Pace Car still makes me laugh:

"I want that car as shiny as a kernel of corn in a goat's ass."

Tell me that isn't priceless.

.... be careful, you don't want them to hear you..... they will be demanding everyone to remove his name from anything.  Then just like that, it never happened and history is rewritten!
Title: Re: ENOUGH! Bill Kolb Jr recommended KR, SHELBY flat out lied! Does the truth matter
Post by: trotrof1 on July 27, 2020, 07:44:58 PM
I was at Indy in 91 on a practice day. I remember the announcer saying, "CARROLL SHELBY ON TRACK RIGHT NOW" as he wheeled the new Viper around the track. There was a problem with the Dodge Stealth not being a USA built car and the Viper became the pace car.
Title: Re: ENOUGH! Bill Kolb Jr recommended KR, SHELBY flat out lied! Does the truth matter
Post by: 98SVT - was 06GT on July 27, 2020, 08:04:25 PM
The stories I saw and heard in the late 60s don't match a lot of the "facts" that were spouted from the same lips 30 years later.
Title: Re: ENOUGH! Bill Kolb Jr recommended KR, SHELBY flat out lied! Does the truth matter
Post by: Side-Oilers on July 27, 2020, 10:29:52 PM
I was at Indy in 91 on a practice day. I remember the announcer saying, "CARROLL SHELBY ON TRACK RIGHT NOW" as he wheeled the new Viper around the track. There was a problem with the Dodge Stealth not being a USA built car and the Viper became the pace car.

True.  And other machinations from behind the scenes.
Title: Re: ENOUGH! Bill Kolb Jr recommended KR, SHELBY flat out lied! Does the truth matter
Post by: Side-Oilers on July 27, 2020, 10:39:24 PM
The stories I saw and heard in the late 60s don't match a lot of the "facts" that were spouted from the same lips 30 years later.

I've not met many men whose stories don't get "better" with time.  ;D
Title: Re: ENOUGH! Bill Kolb Jr recommended KR, SHELBY flat out lied! Does the truth matter
Post by: Don Johnston on July 27, 2020, 11:18:16 PM


I've not met many men whose stories don't get "better" with time.  ;D
[/quote]

You mean like at high school reunions and SAAC conventions, for example?   ::)
Title: Re: ENOUGH! Bill Kolb Jr recommended KR, SHELBY flat out lied! Does the truth matter
Post by: TA Coupe on July 28, 2020, 05:59:22 AM
Let's lighten up things a little bit. Do any of you know the true meaning for the car GLHS? I know what Carroll told me when I was sitting with him at the SEMA show in Vegas in 1988 or 89.

   Roy

Don't leave us hanging Roy, share what he told you  :)
 

How about a few more guesses first. Once I tell you, you will know it came straight  from the old man.

                 Roy
Title: Re: ENOUGH! Bill Kolb Jr recommended KR, SHELBY flat out lied! Does the truth matter
Post by: trotrof1 on July 28, 2020, 06:46:32 AM
I thought it was goes like hell Shelby.
Title: Re: ENOUGH! Bill Kolb Jr recommended KR, SHELBY flat out lied! Does the truth matter
Post by: shelbydoug on July 28, 2020, 06:59:26 AM
Who got the other "I-talian" stop watch at Lemans?


This all strikes me as a little like a baseball call at home plate. Everyone seems to disagree with the home plate umpire and after looking at the replay from every angle it becomes very clear that the issue is depending on where you were sitting and therefore your view that the runner was either safe or out? Everyone is right but someone needed to make a call.
Title: Re: ENOUGH! Bill Kolb Jr recommended KR, SHELBY flat out lied! Does the truth matter
Post by: 68gtcoupe on July 28, 2020, 05:18:09 PM
Let's lighten up things a little bit. Do any of you know the true meaning for the car GLHS? I know what Carroll told me when I was sitting with him at the SEMA show in Vegas in 1988 or 89.

   Roy

Don't leave us hanging Roy, share what he told you  :)
 

How about a few more guesses first. Once I tell you, you will know it came straight  from the old man.

                 Roy

Goddamn Little Hunk of Shit?

Title: Re: ENOUGH! Bill Kolb Jr recommended KR, SHELBY flat out lied! Does the truth matter
Post by: Steve McDonald Formally known as Mcdonas on July 28, 2020, 06:11:34 PM
Our English writing teacher in college gave me good advice , “Never let the facts get in the way of a good story” As long as it’s basically telling the story, the gist of it has a kernel of truth, it moves at a pleasant pace and everyone enjoys it, the facts just get in the way. Sort of like “Ford vs Ferrari”.  Was the Movie enjoyable? Was it 100% fact driven ?
Title: Re: ENOUGH! Bill Kolb Jr recommended KR, SHELBY flat out lied! Does the truth matter
Post by: 6s2055 on July 28, 2020, 07:12:03 PM
There are countless facts and fiction about “The Man”. If I remember right....and that’s a stretch....around 1968 Carroll decided to ride off into the sunset. Along comes SAAC a few years latter and revives his almost forgotten legacy, continues to build further towards his legacy and then years later sues the organization that kept it all going.
Title: Re: ENOUGH! Bill Kolb Jr recommended KR, SHELBY flat out lied! Does the truth matter
Post by: Side-Oilers on July 28, 2020, 09:29:37 PM

Goddamn Little Hunk of Shit?
[/quote]

 ;D ;D
I think that's probably pretty close to the truth.

They were fun to drive though.  Especially to blow the doors off the guys in IROC Camaros. 
Title: Re: ENOUGH! Bill Kolb Jr recommended KR, SHELBY flat out lied! Does the truth matter
Post by: Don Johnston on July 28, 2020, 09:35:13 PM
The GLHS was a fun toy for its time during the EPA hammerings and speed limit era.  It was an affordable and  amazing little power box for its time.  However, it was an instant rust bucket and that is another reason why few remain. 8)
Title: Re: ENOUGH! Bill Kolb Jr recommended KR, SHELBY flat out lied! Does the truth matter
Post by: owenkelley on July 29, 2020, 12:41:39 AM
I thought I read somewhere that it supposedly stood for "Goes Like Hell Summore", but that may be the PG rated version.

That's what I had always heard - GLH - Goes like Hell - GLHS - Goes Like Hell S'more.....

Bash 'em all ya want, it's still fun to drive, and it's way more rare than my '67 GT500!
Title: Re: ENOUGH! Bill Kolb Jr recommended KR, SHELBY flat out lied! Does the truth matter
Post by: TA Coupe on July 29, 2020, 02:45:45 AM
All right here is the non PC version that he told me: "Goes like hot sh?t"
Were any of you around for the Cobra open track at Willow Springs when the factory sent a few of them out? The guys in the Shelbys got there ass kicked by them. The factory did send out some hot shoes to drive them though. Talk about a huge surprise🤤

     Roy
Title: Re: ENOUGH! Bill Kolb Jr recommended KR, SHELBY flat out lied! Does the truth matter
Post by: Coralsnake on July 29, 2020, 09:15:13 AM
Perhsps the OP should contact the Mecum announcers?

They of course will be open to correcting the record.
Title: Re: ENOUGH! Bill Kolb Jr recommended KR, SHELBY flat out lied! Does the truth matter
Post by: gt350hr on July 29, 2020, 10:26:07 AM
   GLHS=POS , everyone ELSE can enjoy them as there will never be one in my driveway! LOL
Title: Re: ENOUGH! Bill Kolb Jr recommended KR, SHELBY flat out lied! Does the truth matter
Post by: owenkelley on July 29, 2020, 11:52:45 AM
   GLHS=POS , everyone ELSE can enjoy them as there will never be one in my driveway! LOL

POS is a bit harsh.....not everyone can afford a classic Shelby, and the GLHS did actually go through Shelby's shop in California for it's modifications. Does that make it more of a purebred Shelby product than a 68-70 Shelby?  ;)
Title: Re: ENOUGH! Bill Kolb Jr recommended KR, SHELBY flat out lied! Does the truth matter
Post by: shelbydoug on July 29, 2020, 11:59:22 AM
Well all of this was done while Iococca was head of Chrysler and seemingly Shelby's efforts were an attempt by him to get back into the good graces at Ford?

What did it in for me was when the Shelby Team had one of these cigar boxes running around one of the race tracks with the turbo dialed up faster then they could get an R model to go.

I mean, to me, this was like a crime against Nature. A crime against the Universe.


In addition it seemed like the base vehicle wasn't ugly and repulsive enough? Shelby had to enhance that.

Talking about a counter culture personality? Wow. This must be what Devil worship is like?



Iococca was doing the "the Deuce" song and dance again about having a real Italian sportscar. He bought about a dozen Detomaso Panteras and sent a couple out to Shelby in California. There they pulled out the Cleveland and installed a 318 turbocharged in two of them.

Fortunately those are the only two, This was when Lamborghini was in financial trouble and Chrysler bought them out. The 91 Diablos have Chrysler VIN tags on them. Fortunately Iococca forgot about the 318 engine in those and left the Lamborghini v12's in.

The only way I'd have one of these Shelby Dodges in my driveway would be if I was having a "let's set it on fire and burn it to the ground" party?


Even with the Viper, it's an ok car especially if you consider this ass backwards design philosophy over at Chrysler that they have to redefine ugly as desirable, but with all of their engineering prowess, they needed a V10 to equal the performance of a Ford 427?
Really? Something definitely wrong with them over there?

Get out of here with that Dodge crap. That's all it is.

Title: Re: ENOUGH! Bill Kolb Jr recommended KR, SHELBY flat out lied! Does the truth matter
Post by: shelbydoug on July 29, 2020, 12:38:03 PM
   GLHS=POS , everyone ELSE can enjoy them as there will never be one in my driveway! LOL

POS is a bit harsh.....not everyone can afford a classic Shelby, and the GLHS did actually go through Shelby's shop in California for it's modifications. Does that make it more of a purebred Shelby product than a 68-70 Shelby?  ;)

Harsh? Hum?

"A rose by any name would be as sweet".  ;)
Title: Re: ENOUGH! Bill Kolb Jr recommended KR, SHELBY flat out lied! Does the truth matter
Post by: gt350hr on July 29, 2020, 12:47:48 PM
   GLHS=POS , everyone ELSE can enjoy them as there will never be one in my driveway! LOL

POS is a bit harsh.....not everyone can afford a classic Shelby, and the GLHS did actually go through Shelby's shop in California for it's modifications. Does that make it more of a purebred Shelby product than a 68-70 Shelby?  ;)

        Owen,
         I'm not dissing "you" personally , but I hear this all the time . IF "someone" REALLY wants to own a classic Shelby , they should make it a goal and really work towards realizing that goal. That's how "I" got through life. 46 years ago my Hertz car wasn't a "six figure" car and I DAMN sure wasn't making six figures , but "somehow" I managed to buy my second Shelby.
     The GLHS is still a POS IMHO. Harsh , NO , JMPO ( Just My Personal Opinion)
and others are welcome to disagree!
       Besides it has nothing to do with a KR.
   Randy
Title: Re: ENOUGH! Bill Kolb Jr recommended KR, SHELBY flat out lied! Does the truth matter
Post by: trotrof1 on July 29, 2020, 01:22:36 PM
GLHSKR     Now your talkin  And make the decal big like the 1978 Cobra 2. Can be seen from space.
Title: Re: ENOUGH! Bill Kolb Jr recommended KR, SHELBY flat out lied! Does the truth matter
Post by: SBCARGUY on July 29, 2020, 01:42:47 PM
What do any of the past several posts have to do with the original post???

NOTHING....  8)
Title: Re: ENOUGH! Bill Kolb Jr recommended KR, SHELBY flat out lied! Does the truth matter
Post by: Coralsnake on July 29, 2020, 03:04:43 PM
Just think if people asked themselves that question more 🤗
Title: Re: ENOUGH! Bill Kolb Jr recommended KR, SHELBY flat out lied! Does the truth matter
Post by: shelbydoug on July 29, 2020, 03:37:38 PM
What do any of the past several posts have to do with the original post???

NOTHING....  8)

Oh no. I hear the rustling of the Shelby Secret Police again. Is that part of the DHS?
Title: Re: ENOUGH! Bill Kolb Jr recommended KR, SHELBY flat out lied! Does the truth matter
Post by: Don Johnston on July 29, 2020, 03:59:59 PM
So then who is the real originator of the GT500 moniker? 8)
Title: Re: ENOUGH! Bill Kolb Jr recommended KR, SHELBY flat out lied! Does the truth matter
Post by: Chris Thauberger on July 29, 2020, 04:09:07 PM
What do any of the past several posts have to do with the original post???

NOTHING....  8)

Haven’t you heard? Its a battle of words and most of them are lies....
Title: Re: ENOUGH! Bill Kolb Jr recommended KR, SHELBY flat out lied! Does the truth matter
Post by: shelbydoug on July 29, 2020, 04:42:10 PM
What do any of the past several posts have to do with the original post???

NOTHING....  8)

What does the original post have to do with anything?
Title: Re: ENOUGH! Bill Kolb Jr recommended KR, SHELBY flat out lied! Does the truth matter
Post by: Bill on July 29, 2020, 04:45:47 PM

What does the original post have to do with anything?

And Doug knocks one out of the park  ;)
Title: Re: ENOUGH! Bill Kolb Jr recommended KR, SHELBY flat out lied! Does the truth matter
Post by: Bob Gaines on July 29, 2020, 05:22:59 PM
Stick a fork in it.Please
Title: Re: ENOUGH! Bill Kolb Jr recommended KR, SHELBY flat out lied! Does the truth matter
Post by: SBCARGUY on July 29, 2020, 05:24:04 PM
I stand corrected...

The whole post and topic have nothing to do with anything...

Supposedly "none of us care" but there are 5 pages and counting...   8)
Title: Re: ENOUGH! Bill Kolb Jr recommended KR, SHELBY flat out lied! Does the truth matter
Post by: Drew Pojedinec on July 29, 2020, 05:43:15 PM
Stick a fork in it.Please

Can’t we talk about something not decisive like religion or politics?
Title: Re: ENOUGH! Bill Kolb Jr recommended KR, SHELBY flat out lied! Does the truth matter
Post by: davez on July 29, 2020, 05:59:12 PM
How about cor... NOPE cant even complete the sentence.
Don't want to invite that in
Title: Re: ENOUGH! Bill Kolb Jr recommended KR, SHELBY flat out lied! Does the truth matter
Post by: shelbydoug on July 29, 2020, 07:17:46 PM
It barely made the fence.  8)
Title: Re: ENOUGH! Bill Kolb Jr recommended KR, SHELBY flat out lied! Does the truth matter
Post by: TA Coupe on July 29, 2020, 08:30:52 PM
Sorry guys, didn't mean to stir up a hornet's nest, just add a little levity.

    Roy
Title: Re: ENOUGH! Bill Kolb Jr recommended KR, SHELBY flat out lied! Does the truth matter
Post by: owenkelley on July 29, 2020, 11:34:11 PM
   GLHS=POS , everyone ELSE can enjoy them as there will never be one in my driveway! LOL

POS is a bit harsh.....not everyone can afford a classic Shelby, and the GLHS did actually go through Shelby's shop in California for it's modifications. Does that make it more of a purebred Shelby product than a 68-70 Shelby?  ;)

        Owen,
         I'm not dissing "you" personally , but I hear this all the time . IF "someone" REALLY wants to own a classic Shelby , they should make it a goal and really work towards realizing that goal. That's how "I" got through life. 46 years ago my Hertz car wasn't a "six figure" car and I DAMN sure wasn't making six figures , but "somehow" I managed to buy my second Shelby.
     The GLHS is still a POS IMHO. Harsh , NO , JMPO ( Just My Personal Opinion)
and others are welcome to disagree!
       Besides it has nothing to do with a KR.
   Randy

No personal offense taken. The Chrysler cars are what they are. They are a part of Shelby history like it or not, but believe me, I hold my '67 GT500 in much higher esteem! I don't consider my '07 GT500 a true Shelby product, it's a Ford with some stickers and badges, but it's still a fun car. Now if I had sent it to Shelby and had it Supersnaked I would have a different opinion. But for the young people just getting into the Shelby game, even if it is just a Chrysler Shelby, a GLHS may be the only way they can afford to have a true Shelby product. I have met many good Chrysler Shelby people at Shelby meets. I wouldn't want to make them feel unwanted or make them feel as though their cars don't count. They will never be as valuable or as sought after as the '60's Shelbys, but the owners should not be insulted because we like our Fords better.

And you're right! This has nothing to do with the original post! But then KR's aren't true Shelbys having been built by Ford.... ;)

Title: Re: ENOUGH! Bill Kolb Jr recommended KR, SHELBY flat out lied! Does the truth matter
Post by: Don Johnston on July 30, 2020, 01:18:07 AM
Back to the OP topic.  We know that some years of "traditional information" was considered the correct information and repeated in book after book until a strong effort was made to make the change to the correct information.  For example, or years it was published that there were six original 66 GT350 convertibles made.  Finally, the changes have been made though there are still a few referring to the facts from to out dated material.

So is this what the OP would like to happen with the KR story?  Just wondering.   History rewrite or let the legend lie because it makes for a better story.  Not trying to stir up the hornets, just going back to the original discussion. 8)
Title: Re: ENOUGH! Bill Kolb Jr recommended KR, SHELBY flat out lied! Does the truth matter
Post by: FL SAAC on July 30, 2020, 08:52:33 AM
+ 1 agreed

   GLHS=POS , everyone ELSE can enjoy them as there will never be one in my driveway! LOL

POS is a bit harsh.....not everyone can afford a classic Shelby, and the GLHS did actually go through Shelby's shop in California for it's modifications. Does that make it more of a purebred Shelby product than a 68-70 Shelby?  ;)

        Owen,
         I'm not dissing "you" personally , but I hear this all the time . IF "someone" REALLY wants to own a classic Shelby , they should make it a goal and really work towards realizing that goal. That's how "I" got through life. 46 years ago my Hertz car wasn't a "six figure" car and I DAMN sure wasn't making six figures , but "somehow" I managed to buy my second Shelby.
     The GLHS is still a POS IMHO. Harsh , NO , JMPO ( Just My Personal Opinion)
and others are welcome to disagree!
       Besides it has nothing to do with a KR.
   Randy

No personal offense taken. The Chrysler cars are what they are. They are a part of Shelby history like it or not, but believe me, I hold my '67 GT500 in much higher esteem! I don't consider my '07 GT500 a true Shelby product, it's a Ford with some stickers and badges, but it's still a fun car. Now if I had sent it to Shelby and had it Supersnaked I would have a different opinion. But for the young people just getting into the Shelby game, even if it is just a Chrysler Shelby, a GLHS may be the only way they can afford to have a true Shelby product. I have met many good Chrysler Shelby people at Shelby meets. I wouldn't want to make them feel unwanted or make them feel as though their cars don't count. They will never be as valuable or as sought after as the '60's Shelbys, but the owners should not be insulted because we like our Fords better.

And you're right! This has nothing to do with the original post! But then KR's aren't true Shelbys having been built by Ford.... ;)
Title: Re: ENOUGH! Bill Kolb Jr recommended KR, SHELBY flat out lied! Does the truth matter
Post by: FL SAAC on July 30, 2020, 08:53:06 AM
+ 1

Back to the OP topic.  We know that some years of "traditional information" was considered the correct information and repeated in book after book until a strong effort was made to make the change to the correct information.  For example, or years it was published that there were six original 66 GT350 convertibles made.  Finally, the changes have been made though there are still a few referring to the facts from to out dated material.

So is this what the OP would like to happen with the KR story?  Just wondering.   History rewrite or let the legend lie because it makes for a better story.  Not trying to stir up the hornets, just going back to the original discussion. 8)
Title: Re: ENOUGH! Bill Kolb Jr recommended KR, SHELBY flat out lied! Does the truth matter
Post by: gt350hr on July 30, 2020, 11:43:27 AM
   David feels he knows the REAL reason for the name association. ANYONE else who doesn't have a "first hand" account of how the name came about ( like he has) is regurgitating "lore" or what has been printed "forever".  "WE" ( who don't have that first hand info) should be respectful of that experience as it could be THE true information instead of lore. FACTS that support his information include the KR8 letters on the air cleaner of the Tasca '67 coupe , and the fact that the "lead time" at Hot Rod was usually 90 days on articles with pictures. ALL of this preceded the "public outcry" sent to FoMoCo "after" the magazine hit the news stands.
     
 SAAC is known to be THE source for the most accurate and up to the minute information unlike the other hang outs full of sheep and ostrich. David's reaching out is the same as anyone of us would do with new found info. Passion is not a fault here.
    Randy
Title: Re: ENOUGH! Bill Kolb Jr recommended KR, SHELBY flat out lied! Does the truth matter
Post by: 427heaven on July 30, 2020, 01:37:25 PM
Agreed ^^^^^^^ But in life, its often critical how things are brought to ones attention. You dont want to come on here and yell FIRE... When your holding a lighter in your hand.
Title: Re: ENOUGH! Bill Kolb Jr recommended KR, SHELBY flat out lied! Does the truth matter
Post by: shelbydoug on July 30, 2020, 05:36:34 PM
   David feels he knows the REAL reason for the name association. ANYONE else who doesn't have a "first hand" account of how the name came about ( like he has) is regurgitating "lore" or what has been printed "forever".  "WE" ( who don't have that first hand info) should be respectful of that experience as it could be THE true information instead of lore. FACTS that support his information include the KR8 letters on the air cleaner of the Tasca '67 coupe , and the fact that the "lead time" at Hot Rod was usually 90 days on articles with pictures. ALL of this preceded the "public outcry" sent to FoMoCo "after" the magazine hit the news stands.
     
 SAAC is known to be THE source for the most accurate and up to the minute information unlike the other hang outs full of sheep and ostrich. David's reaching out is the same as anyone of us would do with new found info. Passion is not a fault here.
    Randy

I am not SAAC nor are you. This forum is not SAAC. We are not a SAAC jury and none here are authorized to pass judgement.

A better venue would be to write an article describing the situation and what new information he has documented. I like investigative journalism articles.

I personally had nothing to do with naming the car and I am not guilty of anything to do with the name or believing or disbelieving past articles. Did I read them? Sure. Me bad.

If the OP feels he has a case, this forum is not a courtroom and should not be viewed as one.



It's going to help if he can get interviews with the people involved and pictures. Lots of pictures help.

As some like to say here, extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.  I'm looking forward to the article(s).
Title: Re: ENOUGH! Bill Kolb Jr recommended KR, SHELBY flat out lied! Does the truth matter
Post by: gt350hr on July 31, 2020, 10:50:20 AM
   Doug put yourself in his position. He is NO DIFFERENT than you when you "know" something rather than have a different "opinion" on something. YOU fight like hell too! I have seen you do it.  Remember "the earth is flat".
Title: Re: ENOUGH! Bill Kolb Jr recommended KR, SHELBY flat out lied! Does the truth matter
Post by: shelbydoug on July 31, 2020, 12:54:55 PM
   Doug put yourself in his position. He is NO DIFFERENT than you when you "know" something rather than have a different "opinion" on something. YOU fight like hell too! I have seen you do it.  Remember "the earth is flat".

I have no objection to that but I'm not the one that needs to be convinced of anything.

Write an  article for the magazine. Kopec always wants new blood.

Flat Earth? Not here. There isn't anything here that is flat. Everything here is either up or down the hill. You must be talking about LA?

He is preaching to the choir here. I like counter revolutionaries. They're feisty!


I remember being in New Orleans at at Mardi Gra and walking around the corner to find a "Preacher" standing on a soap box preaching fire and brimstone.

He yelded down from the podium. "All you that want to go to Heaven, step over that line." Everyone in th crowd did but me.

This infuriated him and he screamed at me, "YOU THERE, WHEN YOU DIE DON'T YOU WANT TO GO TO HEAVEN?"

I said, "OH, WHEN I DIE, I thought you were taking a load up now?"  :o


You need to take "Preachers" with a grain of salt?
Title: Re: ENOUGH! Bill Kolb Jr recommended KR, SHELBY flat out lied! Does the truth matter
Post by: roddster on August 01, 2020, 11:43:01 AM
   C'mon.  I KNOW there is a page 6 or 7 in this thread...yet.
Title: Re: ENOUGH! Bill Kolb Jr recommended KR, SHELBY flat out lied! Does the truth matter
Post by: 427hunter on August 01, 2020, 10:06:29 PM
Ray ban, Rolex, Shelby, Ferrari, etc, cool brands that made/make cool desirable products that stand the test of time. The 65-70 Shelby's are part of that cool period when racing/marketing/design came together and captured the imagination of generations. Sour grapes is all I hear these days, I am glad Carroll Shelby had the ides he had, assembled the team he did, and made the cars, brand, and legacy that I enjoy owning. Shelby did a lot for racing and marketing, without him the era would have not been the same.   
Title: Re: ENOUGH! Bill Kolb Jr recommended KR, SHELBY flat out lied! Does the truth matter
Post by: shelbydoug on August 02, 2020, 09:47:52 AM
   C'mon.  I KNOW there is a page 6 or 7 in this thread...yet.

This IS page 6!  ???
Title: Re: ENOUGH! Bill Kolb Jr recommended KR, SHELBY flat out lied! Does the truth matter
Post by: FL SAAC on August 02, 2020, 01:36:41 PM
+ 1 to +6 amazing!

   C'mon.  I KNOW there is a page 6 or 7 in this thread...yet.