This is the reistance wire I bought. It has male bullet connectors at both ends.
It is obvious that one end will just plug into the bullet connector on the tach output.
Why is there a bullet connector on the coil end? Is there an adapter to use on the coil?
Which end goes on the tach?
Doug: When you take the fire-retardant wrap off you'll find the other end.
There are male bullets on both ends. You take the insulation off? Why?
I think my 67 was enclosed, I don't remember it being outside the wrapping of the harness. I could be wrong in this case.
What does the pigtail to the coil look like? I can't find that anywhere.
Doug, what are you trying to accomplish?
I dont think the Ford tach takes its signal directly from the coil.
The wire at the firewall end of the existing harness must be cut as close to the firewall as possible. An insulated female connector must be crimped on to accept the Ford resistance wire repair kit.
The tachometer in this car is a current sensing unit. In order to be accurate it needs to see 12 volts input from the ignition switch and then the resistance wire and coil on the other side. The coil needs to be either an original yellow top or another coil with the same resistance so that current is the same as stock.
Yes the tachometer gets it's signal directly from the coil.
Quote from: Coralsnake on August 01, 2020, 07:36:19 AM
Doug, what are you trying to accomplish?
I dont think the Ford tach takes its signal directly from the coil.
This is the type of connector that is needed at the firewall:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/100-Pack-16-14-Gauge-Blue-Female-Bullet-Connector-Fully-Insulated-Vinyl-156-UL/222397260948?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item33c7e8e494:g:e~IAAOSw2xRYk4dH&enc=AQAFAAACcBaobrjLl8XobRIiIML1V4Imu%2Fn%2BzU5L90Z278x5ickkgCVySCgrNFPU8Iu85TabMKnoN7Woya5JxDRwdWF1XmVjPd0z2Avflgc8NESbYXrprtA0hkygfe1%2BsFj5MCmNR1ztAWVGs59Rv7tw18JP4G7L%2FT1lnqZy61LnEWqmoztvOqwVkOixTe2vW6JLrNzWL5krWhTQYvo%2F7BCHWB2976qSWboBWh6FXBTtn%2FVEa9PtfNv%2FmdYfD4h6tmnUFutMBPa1l9tf%2BhPbPK6bfFUCsbp2FxoG%2FOiG6zxslyIzqflmIiDG17azc0MUeS1FRtUtJ2eWMSQqiMIDgjXQv7JVexUCNhayw%2FempKFJYlapPDKI1Yg%2F9c4V49mMhCQ3Ad5ipCO5LLuf%2FKZPwkDXCh80G%2Bv0%2FSgxK8%2BFNz8%2BshU7R8cvdwb7GuoNNyFIRVIQhTql5N5xwmqnTLYAduLEIYo2o%2BZK0C%2FmHWdWJB22V8aJGh5%2BLdAyKRUb30Em%2F3mzL44XWQf6ReZ7g8imUZ5qCjhaweRgjdJp1tvWhbvLvP6RjYSkwzM9yaPuqKldoB7AkHTqRsUZ7T7t0Ylo6r2q%2FX7AVzov73Qw2Jqt3qGwPKOmJy1o2rinWS%2FZjYtY51UazdLBHgQZc8AbBk0%2BGI1uZSrGzLuGe5jAfRPWJ4c4lAYttedQJFUyu%2BBuVHg5uU73s8EzJNqYJ7KYlNE3oYk%2BVWHwMHNNq9NKdDbEcGaZ382x7t5WqzHJ503eMBM8stQPwy8kBT4mgndGa4z4rQjmX3JHV%2F5WQQE54gHRTMNacEbhAZxqR2BSzg%2B9tvo13vZdyvi9fw%3D%3D&checksum=222397260948a360b7da21634af1b3ac5e16efb4f92c (https://www.ebay.com/itm/100-Pack-16-14-Gauge-Blue-Female-Bullet-Connector-Fully-Insulated-Vinyl-156-UL/222397260948?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item33c7e8e494:g:e~IAAOSw2xRYk4dH&enc=AQAFAAACcBaobrjLl8XobRIiIML1V4Imu%2Fn%2BzU5L90Z278x5ickkgCVySCgrNFPU8Iu85TabMKnoN7Woya5JxDRwdWF1XmVjPd0z2Avflgc8NESbYXrprtA0hkygfe1%2BsFj5MCmNR1ztAWVGs59Rv7tw18JP4G7L%2FT1lnqZy61LnEWqmoztvOqwVkOixTe2vW6JLrNzWL5krWhTQYvo%2F7BCHWB2976qSWboBWh6FXBTtn%2FVEa9PtfNv%2FmdYfD4h6tmnUFutMBPa1l9tf%2BhPbPK6bfFUCsbp2FxoG%2FOiG6zxslyIzqflmIiDG17azc0MUeS1FRtUtJ2eWMSQqiMIDgjXQv7JVexUCNhayw%2FempKFJYlapPDKI1Yg%2F9c4V49mMhCQ3Ad5ipCO5LLuf%2FKZPwkDXCh80G%2Bv0%2FSgxK8%2BFNz8%2BshU7R8cvdwb7GuoNNyFIRVIQhTql5N5xwmqnTLYAduLEIYo2o%2BZK0C%2FmHWdWJB22V8aJGh5%2BLdAyKRUb30Em%2F3mzL44XWQf6ReZ7g8imUZ5qCjhaweRgjdJp1tvWhbvLvP6RjYSkwzM9yaPuqKldoB7AkHTqRsUZ7T7t0Ylo6r2q%2FX7AVzov73Qw2Jqt3qGwPKOmJy1o2rinWS%2FZjYtY51UazdLBHgQZc8AbBk0%2BGI1uZSrGzLuGe5jAfRPWJ4c4lAYttedQJFUyu%2BBuVHg5uU73s8EzJNqYJ7KYlNE3oYk%2BVWHwMHNNq9NKdDbEcGaZ382x7t5WqzHJ503eMBM8stQPwy8kBT4mgndGa4z4rQjmX3JHV%2F5WQQE54gHRTMNacEbhAZxqR2BSzg%2B9tvo13vZdyvi9fw%3D%3D&checksum=222397260948a360b7da21634af1b3ac5e16efb4f92c)
If you want an orginal style connector check with Mike Williams with Orlando Mustang. He had custom molds made for doing this.
Quote from: Coralsnake on August 01, 2020, 07:36:19 AM
Doug, what are you trying to accomplish?
I dont think the Ford tach takes its signal directly from the coil.
Generally...getting the tach to work right with a Petronix ignior.
Getting specific information from others is dental surgery...pulling teeth.
Key details are always emmitted.
At the moment, I am down to connecting the resistance wire to the coil. I don't remember specifically what the pigtail on that wire to the coil + terminal looked like.
IF this service part is the same as production line then there is a pigtail required to connect to the coil? Maybe it's different then production?
I'm thinking it was a white wire with a molded female bullet on one end and a 90 molded push on post terminal on the other? I don't have any pictures of that detail.
The Ford Service part has male bullet ends at either end. One is very thick. One thin. I think the thin one goes to the tach output?
I think the fat one connects to the coil pigtail and just lays on the intake manifold?
Hearing from several here running a similar set up, the wiring plan of leaving the resistance wire in place from the tach to the coil, and running a seperate ignition switched 12v wire to the coil holds the most hope of success.
My original resistance wire was cut out years ago, so I'm rewiring from scratch, so to speak.
Again, what does that coil end pigtail look like? Anyone have a picture?
I do remember the discussion Pete habout the replacement yellow top coils vaguely since I wasn't running that set up but is a consideration right now.
A high likeliness of a melted coil is not a big selling point but that coil just came up in a Google search this morning and refreshed my memory a little with blurry details?
Hey. It's the same for me as it was eons ago. If I had instant technical recall, I could have been smart? Sometimes I misspell my own name? NOT a big plus on my part.
The kit that you bought is a repair part that can be used on any Ford product. It requires that the wire to the coil be cut at the interior side firewall. Then install an insulated female connector. Then plug it in.
It's really simple to do.
Quote from: Royce Peterson on August 01, 2020, 10:19:26 AM
The kit that you bought is a repair part that can be used on any Ford product. It requires that the wire to the coil be cut at the interior side firewall. Then install an insulated female connector. Then plug it in.
It's really simple to do.
thank you Royce. The tach end is not the question, the coil end is. If I was going to cut and splice I would have gone to a universal part and saved the effort.
If the answer is to cut the bullet ends off and crip an eyelet onto the wire, it kind of defeats the effort?
The resistance wire doesn't continue past the firewall connector. The engine harness is regular wire.
Exactly right. Here's what the factory harness looks like. Note that the Resistance wire is the pink wire that goes from the tachometer to the neutral safety switch harness at the firewall. It is identified as a squiggly line on wire #16A. You will be able to easily tell where the resistance wire is spliced to regular wire. That's where the connector goes.
Quote from: KR Convertible on August 01, 2020, 11:20:37 AM
The resistance wire doesn't continue past the firewall connector. The engine harness is regular wire.
You can wire the Pertronix without any cutting or splicing. A simple scotch lok on the right side (Ign side) of the harness where it's plugged into the tach. Pull a 14ga wire through the engine harness boot at the firewall and run it parallel with the existing engine harness under the clips on the valve cover. butt splice it to the red wire from the Pertronix module to the wire you just pulled. The ford wiring and the black wire go on the coil as it did from Ford.
I'll be in LGA about 1600. I'll check my messages before my last leg of the day.
`
Doug: If this is what you are needing, shot of '68 GT500 (PI). 90 degree male is white for this application. Others are different. Sorry about the focus.
Quote from: 68blk500c on August 01, 2020, 02:46:39 PM
Doug: If this is what you are needing, shot of '68 GT500 (PI). 90 degree male is white for this application. Others are different. Sorry about the focus.
Is the white elbow on a pigtail or is it part of the resistance wire?
Quote from: shelbydoug on August 01, 2020, 07:24:25 PM
Quote from: 68blk500c on August 01, 2020, 02:46:39 PM
Doug: If this is what you are needing, shot of '68 GT500 (PI). 90 degree male is white for this application. Others are different. Sorry about the focus.
Is the white elbow on a pigtail or is it part of the resistance wire?
The white elbow is the primary wire from the distributor on a 68 up FE.
Quote from: Bob Gaines on August 02, 2020, 01:13:49 AM
Quote from: shelbydoug on August 01, 2020, 07:24:25 PM
Quote from: 68blk500c on August 01, 2020, 02:46:39 PM
Doug: If this is what you are needing, shot of '68 GT500 (PI). 90 degree male is white for this application. Others are different. Sorry about the focus.
Is the white elbow on a pigtail or is it part of the resistance wire?
The white elbow is the primary wire from the distributor on a 68 up FE.
Thanks for clarifying that Bob. Some accurate original pics of the coil connections would help much more though? Got any you can post? Please?
Quote from: 68blk500c on August 01, 2020, 02:46:39 PM
Doug: If this is what you are needing, shot of '68 GT500 (PI). 90 degree male is white for this application. Others are different. Sorry about the focus.
It actually does. It shows a factory molded on elbow on the pink resistance wire. Thank you. It does answer my question. ;D
On your harness, is there ANY heat shielding sleeve on that wire AT ALL? It doesn't appear to be?
Just realized the '68 drawing from the factory vacuum / electrical manual is in error. Here's the '67 drawing which is correct. The resistance wire comes from the tach and connects to 16B just inside the firewall on the passenger side.
The resistance wire connects to the wire going through the firewall to the neutral lockout / reverse lamp switch. Or if you have a four speed, it has a loop on the plug for the reverse lamp harness so that the starter engages any time the key is turned. As the drawing shows. Eventually this circuit leads to the coil through several other harnesses. It's wire # 16A.
Quote from: shelbydoug on August 02, 2020, 09:58:30 AM
Quote from: 68blk500c on August 01, 2020, 02:46:39 PM
Doug: If this is what you are needing, shot of '68 GT500 (PI). 90 degree male is white for this application. Others are different. Sorry about the focus.
It actually does. It shows a factory molded on elbow on the pink resistance wire. Thank you. It does answer my question. ;D
On your harness, is there ANY heat shielding sleeve on that wire AT ALL? It doesn't appear to be?
Deleted not needed image
Here are the color codes.
No, Doug, there isn't any; just normal wire loop wrap tape.
Quote from: 68blk500c on August 02, 2020, 12:16:22 PM
No, Doug, there isn't any; just normal wire loop wrap tape.
;)
Not to confuse the issue,but trying to help..... Ford used that COLF # to service many years/applications and the service part from most any supplier will have the bullet connector at each end. The resistor wire is marked" do not cut or splice" along the pink wire. When servicing the resistor wire ( not real common) the splice must be made before/after the resistor wire. Just add a female connector to the loom so that the resistor wire is not spliced,but plugged into the circuit. The resistor wire is NOT meant to be modified. It is only designed to replace the original wire,and equal same resistance. Just do what is required to plug in the replacement wire. Make your cut/splice as needed in the non-resistor wiring....... Ford's 65/up ignition has been a very reliable system. Most issues arise from lack of understanding the design. I still use stock Ford ignition coil/points,cap,etc on my drag car just to confuse the kids that don't know what non-electronic ignition is >:(
I was following you however, I was distracted when I got to "but plugged"
Good post !
The new resistance wire in the repair kit has a plug on each end. You have to add a single connector just to the rear of the firewall so that it may plug in at both ends. Not hard to do if the dash is removed. Very hard to do laying on your back looking up under the instrument panel.
Quote from: Coralsnake on August 02, 2020, 08:01:02 PM
I was following you however, I was distracted when I got to "but plugged"
Good post !
Quote from: Rukiddin on August 02, 2020, 07:49:50 PM
Not to confuse the issue,but trying to help..... Ford used that COLF # to service many years/applications and the service part from most any supplier will have the bullet connector at each end. The resistor wire is marked" do not cut or splice" along the pink wire. When servicing the resistor wire ( not real common) the splice must be made before/after the resistor wire. Just add a female connector to the loom so that the resistor wire is not spliced,but plugged into the circuit. The resistor wire is NOT meant to be modified. It is only designed to replace the original wire,and equal same resistance. Just do what is required to plug in the replacement wire. Make your cut/splice as needed in the non-resistor wiring....... Ford's 65/up ignition has been a very reliable system. Most issues arise from lack of understanding the design. I still use stock Ford ignition coil/points,cap,etc on my drag car just to confuse the kids that don't know what non-electronic ignition is >:(
There were no instructions included with it. Neither did I find ANY reference to it anywhere and close to little response to my inquiry here.
The service part obviously varies from an original equipment part so that likely is the answer to little or no response here? Cranky as they are, most here genuinely like to help.
My original resistance wire is long gone so there was/is nothing there to compare to. In addition, the differences between the service part and the original installs are significant enough to produce doubt or confuion on the subject.
In my case I am not running the yellow top coil. I have an up and running engine and I'm just trying to get the tach to operate accurately by simulating the original design parameters.
I actually do have an electrical consultant more familiar with the Pantera system that thought the Ford tach should be installed on the negative terminal of the coil? The only issue there was that if you do that then there is no power to the Petronix from the coil since the Ford tach is literally spliced into the power to the coil from the 12v ignition switch. Just a little bit of an oops by the expert who now is pissed at me and told me not to bother him anymore.
So you see, it isn't just here that everyone seems pissy. It's everywhere, even with your own "friends"?
Buddy Hacket had an interesting bit about "friends". It's a little dated now but still a funny one.
I'll find out soon if the re-wiring with the resistance wiring is going to work.
Incidentally Royce and others. YOU try to find those bullet connectors that Ford used. I can't. Nothing here is that size. I came to the conclusion that they are as popular as a Druid convention in the Vatican? :)
Obviously he hasn't seen the circuit or he would know that is not true.
Here's how to install the Pertronix with a factory tach in any 1967 - 68 Mustang Shelby or Cougar. The coil must be the same resistance as a stock yellow top coil or the tach will not be accurate.
Note 1 - to the "S" terminal of the solenoid through the neutral safety circuit and / or tilt - away circuits.
Note 2 - From the "I" terminal of the solenoid.
There are a thousand ways to achieve this without cutting any wires. If you know anyone who can read a schematic this should be extremely simple to understand and accomplish.
Quote - "I actually do have an electrical consultant more familiar with the Pantera system that thought the Ford tach should be installed on the negative terminal of the coil? The only issue there was that if you do that then there is no power to the Petronix from the coil since the Ford tach is literally spliced into the power to the coil from the 12v ignition switch. Just a little bit of an oops by the expert who now is pissed at me and told me not to bother him anymore." - End Quote
;)
Correct and obviously it wasn't even a caution flag, it was a red flag or if he was on the track a black flag. Even I knew there was no power going to the coil.
The thought occurred to me, "better find another expert".
Pertronix used to have a high output (blaster) coil alternate to the typical coil they offered that was potted in epoxy instead of oil for heavy duty operation. For what ever reason it was shorter then the typical GM style after market coil that they sold then and still sell now . The now obsolete coil was the same approximate size as the yellow top coil except it put out 3 times the power that the stock coil does. I would paint the top with a close yellow top color to disguise the coil as OEM better. They are of course not a exact copy of a yellow top coil and not for concours but look very similar. It will make a informed enthusiast look twice. When Pertronix discontinued them I bought up a few and still have some left . I have some that are designed to work with factory resistant wire or some that work without the resistor (straight 12V) . PM me if you want to have your cake and eat it too.