The add claims "One of the nicest 65 Shelbys in existence!! This car is a 99 point #1 car " I think seller means to imply 99 point out of 100 by the attitude and also using #1. It talks about award winning restoration however with a claimed Aug 2020 restoration completion date I am unaware of any concours venues the car could have entered to attain awards. Those are quite the bragging points . I see many Shelby 101 mistakes and out of the ordinary build techniques . Does anyone else?. Of course it still looks like a outstanding car but before someone flames me for picking on the car think about when someone makes brags on such lofty claims and then puts them on the premier Shelby information forum on the planet it is not unreasonable to expect there might be some push back. It is a little insulting given the mistakes seen that nothing would be said . If nothing is said being posted with those claims on this forum can have a tendency to add legitimacy to the mistakes to the uninformed. The seller needs to do more homework because it would be far from 99 point out of 100 in the present state if entered in MCA trailered or SAAC concours in it's present state.
https://www.saacforum.com/index.php?topic=12696.0;topicseen
Bill
Quote from: Bob Gaines on November 14, 2020, 09:17:41 PM
The add claims "One of the nicest 65 Shelbys in existence!! This car is a 99 point #1 car " I think seller means to imply 99 point out of 100 by the attitude and also using #1. It talks about award winning restoration however with a claimed Aug 2020 restoration completion date I am unaware of any concours venues the car could have entered to attain awards. Those are quite the bragging points . I see many Shelby 101 mistakes and out of the ordinary build techniques . Does anyone else?. Of course it still looks like a outstanding car but before someone flames me for picking on the car think about when someone makes brags on such lofty claims and then puts them on the premier Shelby information forum on the planet it is not unreasonable to expect there might be some push back. It is a little insulting given the mistakes seen that nothing would be said . If nothing is said being posted with those claims on this forum can have a tendency to add legitimacy to the mistakes to the uninformed. The seller needs to do more homework because it would be far from 99 point out of 100 in the present state if entered in MCA trailered or SAAC concours in it's present state.
Bob, you are 100% on point here. I glanced through and saw a number of things that aren't correct but could be corrected. My thought was he should have had yourself or one of the other authorities on these cars take a look and recommend some things before he offered for sale. I wish him the best but I believe he is going to be upset when others start helping him see incorrect things.
Agreed Bob, it was a little hard to listen to the videos. A good car will speak for itself, there's no need to add all the hype. There's no such thing as a perfect restoration.
It looks like a nice car, most of the improvement areas could be easily corrected.
The write up is awkward. The car seems to present well. The seller seems to go to great effort to deflect or inoculate anticipated 'witnesses from the past' stepping forth. In my opinion all of the warts mentioned are entirely normal for a 1965 GT-350. So the quarters were hacked up (perhaps w 70's IMSA flares) and later metalwork repaired, or the front end may have been bashed in losing its fenders (or more). Those are entirely normal occurrences in the 1965 fleet throughout its existence for the majority of 65s. Especially throughout the early 70's ~ late 80's.
The stratospheric rise in value, accompanied by a boutique industry of incredible craftsmanship (and of course 'experts'), wherein virginal 'Day 1' cars appear thence disappear in collections perhaps led poor Ron to this blubbering presentation. Or its just a simple blubbering presentation.
Oh, I just got a shooting pain. That reminds me why I am so over the detailing marks.
They are ridiculous on this example.
Quote from: Coralsnake on November 15, 2020, 10:00:02 AM
Oh, I just got a shooting pain. That reminds me why I am so over the detailing marks.
They are ridiculous on this example.
A shooting pain? Yeh. The shoulder pad for my shotgun is inadequate.
Thank you, Bob, for starting this topic. You are absolutely correct. To allow unfounded claims to go unchallenged on this forum is to (silently) endorse them.
I've seen some GREAT cars that I'd love to own get soured by unrealistic claims. It's completely unnecessary and (for me) detracts from the appeal of an otherwise worthy car.
Steve
In its present state this is a fantastic looking car that "speaks for itself". The seller would be better off not over-explaining & embellishing (in the written SAAC ad). Any serious buyer would certainly get an "expert" to thoroughly inspect a car making such lofty claims, especially at this price point! Because these cars from new were fairly raw race cars, many if not most were ridden hard & put away wet, modded, cut up, etc. in their early years, this one apparently being no exception, ie: is that a sales receipt for $500 from 1987 in the documentation video? It is better to embrace the honest history of these amazing cars then attempt to rewrite it in a grab for $$.
As a fellow '65 owner I am not slagging the owner or the car, just the sales approach.
I am wondering it is the same Ron Miller that used to be Ford Power parts?
Quote from: Bob Gaines on November 15, 2020, 01:43:57 PM
I am wondering it is the same Ron Miller that used to be Ford Power parts?
My thoughts too. Very likely.
"Pride cometh before a fall". . I live by that quote although--for me-- it's not difficult-- there's nothing in my life to be proud of...
Quote from: 69mach351w on November 15, 2020, 01:50:10 PM
Quote from: sfm5 on November 15, 2020, 01:39:49 PM
As a fellow '65 owner I am not slagging the owner or the car, just the sales approach.
Well, maybe some here that knows should school this guy. Does anyone know who he is? Maybe he's just ignorant about the specific, correct details that some of you guys know, and he would probably appreciate Any help. I'm sure he knows of the high dollar this car can bring, just don't know that there are several areas that need to be corrected for that price he's asking.
That is typically a reasonable sentiment. If it is the same Ron Miller some of use think it is then he will not very easily take guidance ::). He is very knowledgeable in Ford performance but is not up to speed in Shelby history and build techniques. The impression I get from the few times that I have interacted with him is that he is one of those people that think they know better then anyone else. I have had first hand experience in trying to help him short out Shelby issues in the past . My time was wasted and ignored.
Yes I owned Ford Power Parts. If anyone notices something that is incorrectly done or incorrect part I would appreciate knowing exactly what it is. The $500 receipt from the third owners was done for DMV purposes to save on sales tax. He paid $7500 for the car and an extra $1k for the 8v intake, Cobra valve covers and extra spare parts. This car has not been judged at a Shelby event, this is my opinion and others that have seen the car. I read your comments, so I put a note on the ad to clarify this. The main reason I mentioned the corrections to the SAAC registry is the first person that was very interested in the car said NO because of what he read in the registry and he (incorrectly) thought that the stripe overspray in the door jambs was not the way that Shelby did it and therefore the restoration shop did not know what they were doing. I have approximately 300 pictures of this car and each engine part and no one from this ad has asked to see them yet. Bob, I DO NOT and have NEVER claimed to be a Shelby expert. I DO claim to be an expert on Ford V8 1960's engines especially the FE series which I have designed and manufactured parts on a shoestring budget better than gigantic aftermarket companies. I am trying to be 100% transparent, so again, if you see something that is not correct, please point it out. thanks in advance, Ron Miller
That's a nice car ,to get it more correct , One thing that' is obvious it's missing the pinch weld rocker area black out and the overspray that 's going with it .I think this car suppose to have a hood prop and no spring for the hood, the master cylinder cap should be black.
chris NOS - It appears that the radiator support does have a hole for the prop rod
Quote from: RPMRon on November 15, 2020, 02:49:42 PM
............... if you see something that is not correct, please point it out. thanks in advance, Ron Miller
Hi Ron
So just starting from the grill in the lower picture
- Horn mounting hardware would have been plated phosphate and oil not painted black
- Horns would have been painted semi-gloss back after they were assembled not painted before with the rivets and gaskets finished differently
- Front fender bolts would have been replaced with the hood bumpers that would have been removed when the hood pins were installed leaving a mark/depression in the fender paint where the bolt had originally been located.
- Paint marks/writing show would have been under the black paint applied to the bare sheet metal and painted over when the engine compartment was painted black
That's it for now
To add on to the list of things already mentioned and seen from the pictures posted on the SAAC forum ad and not the YouTube videos and in the context for SAAC concours or MCA trailered expectations, hoods pins wrong style,brake master cylinder and lid were painted black ,should have radio resistance plug wires not SX. It is hard to tell because of resolution but it looks like driver side plug wires are indexed incorrectly, poor version of hipo air cleaner lid sticker, typically 65 had the straight sticker in the back not the curved,distributor is typically indexed so that clip is almost straight forward when timed correctly. It looks like it is a couple teeth off, wrong radiator -should be G2 not M2,heater hose routing is out of the ordinary,no sealant on firewall,what little that can be seen in the pictures of the carb indicate wrong hardware on carb accelerator pump lever. On the underside -unusual assemblyline paint identification marks on trans mount ,e brake equalizer ,tip of side exhaust . It is better to not put anything at all rather then copy a incorrect marking. In concours you are not deducted for if marks are not there because they were not there on every car. However there is deduction for incorrect marks. There is lack of body color overspray on floor pans .What with 60's assemblyline paint gun spray volume when the rockers were painted would have laid down significantly more body color on the pans. As mentioned before the pinch weld black out is missing but so is the corresponding black overspray on the floor pans from the same process.The floor pan metal plugs are installed upside down,The pinion shield should be bare steel not painted black, the rebound bumper brackets above the axle tube are the wrong finish plus they are missing the welding blackout paint,wrong clamps on fuel sender fuel line. These things are all that really stand out to me . There may be things that stand out differently to others . The issues I and others have mentioned would have to be corrected to get on a path to the 99 out of 100 car claim. There are other issues not mentioned here but seen in the You Tube video . Also FYI although the paint looks shiny and is hard to evaluate from the pictures alone the claimed just like the factory is contradicted by the fact that it is polished which makes it other then factory and there would be a deduction if not orange peel like factory paint . Also if in person the paint can be determined to be base coat clear coat and not single stage like factory then that is another issue. You might like the slick look better and that is fine just understand you can't make the claim it is like factory and be accurate. These issues are those that can be seen from the pictures so keep in mind if the same ratio of incorrect items are in areas not seen in the pictures then there is even more work to be done. Not a undo-able job . It would have been more prudent to have asked for evaluation from this forum prior to making the unfounded claims .We would rather see you succeed then to fail . It helps everyone when another successfully restored car gets done right to preserve the Marque .Best of luck with the sale.
If sincere about making the car better, share the pictures. The ones in the for sale ad were extremely low resolution.
Quote from: RPMRon on November 15, 2020, 02:49:42 PM
Yes I owned Ford Power Parts. If anyone notices something that is incorrectly done or incorrect part I would appreciate knowing exactly what it is. The $500 receipt from the third owners was done for DMV purposes to save on sales tax. He paid $7500 for the car and an extra $1k for the 8v intake, Cobra valve covers and extra spare parts. This car has not been judged at a Shelby event, this is my opinion and others that have seen the car. I read your comments, so I put a note on the ad to clarify this. The main reason I mentioned the corrections to the SAAC registry is the first person that was very interested in the car said NO because of what he read in the registry and he (incorrectly) thought that the stripe overspray in the door jambs was not the way that Shelby did it and therefore the restoration shop did not know what they were doing. I have approximately 300 pictures of this car and each engine part and no one from this ad has asked to see them yet. Bob, I DO NOT and have NEVER claimed to be a Shelby expert. I DO claim to be an expert on Ford V8 1960's engines especially the FE series which I have designed and manufactured parts on a shoestring budget better than gigantic aftermarket companies. I am trying to be 100% transparent, so again, if you see something that is not correct, please point it out. thanks in advance, Ron Miller
Ron first, you have a really nice car and being that you are open, the folks here can provide information to get it to as high a level as it can achieve. Please don't make the mistake some folks make by getting offended and looking at the comments as criticism or an attack, I assure you it is not. Most of the experts here want to see every car achieve its maximum potential so my advice is to listen, appreciate the points and correct where you feasibly can. I wish you the best with the sale, someone will get a very nice car!
Quote from: RPMRon on November 15, 2020, 02:49:42 PM
Yes I owned Ford Power Parts. If anyone notices something that is incorrectly done or incorrect part I would appreciate knowing exactly what it is. The $500 receipt from the third owners was done for DMV purposes to save on sales tax. He paid $7500 for the car and an extra $1k for the 8v intake, Cobra valve covers and extra spare parts. This car has not been judged at a Shelby event, this is my opinion and others that have seen the car. I read your comments, so I put a note on the ad to clarify this. The main reason I mentioned the corrections to the SAAC registry is the first person that was very interested in the car said NO because of what he read in the registry and he (incorrectly) thought that the stripe overspray in the door jambs was not the way that Shelby did it and therefore the restoration shop did not know what they were doing. I have approximately 300 pictures of this car and each engine part and no one from this ad has asked to see them yet. Bob, I DO NOT and have NEVER claimed to be a Shelby expert. I DO claim to be an expert on Ford V8 1960's engines especially the FE series which I have designed and manufactured parts on a shoestring budget better than gigantic aftermarket companies. I am trying to be 100% transparent, so again, if you see something that is not correct, please point it out. thanks in advance, Ron Miller
Very, Very Well Said !!
That's a beautiful car, as shown. I'd love to own it, but it's way out of my price range. I would expect that a potential buyer, who had the wherewithal to buy it, would take the advice, often offered on this forum, to pay for a pre-sale inspection to make sure their money is properly spent.
This thread shows that the SAAC Forum and Club members, judges, and restorers, are extremely generous with supporting regular members and passersby. Where else could the seller of a $575,000 car come to ask for advice, that would be known by an extremely small percentage of people. I wish that I could find forums of doctors, lawyers, and financial advisors that were as generous with their knowledge.
Best wishes to both buyer and seller. I hope this car can serve as a benchmark for others in the perpetual pursuit of the perfected pony. Alliteration intended.
Steve
Quote from: Bob Gaines on November 15, 2020, 01:43:57 PM
I am wondering it is the same Ron Miller that used to be Ford Power parts?
Winner winner , chicken dinner. Changed from selling parts to selling cars. Certainly NOT a '65 Shelby expert. If he was he wouldn't take pictures of incorrect hood pins , fabbed up H pipe etc. And he should know that a FRONT mounted battery is MORE RARE than a trunk mount.
I would love to see him get anywhere near his "asking price" 8)
Quote from: SBCARGUY on November 16, 2020, 12:11:54 PM
I would love to see him get anywhere near his "asking price" 8)
+1
Nice car, Ron. I am not trying to stir up controversy with those who know the concours details but I have seen lesser cars in museums with rave reviews. Gold cap on fruit jar master cylinder, springs on hood plus a hood prop, incorrect headers, etc. These photos are of 5S238 up here in Oregon at Word of Speed museum before it closed. FYI, my 5S243 did not have any provision on the radiator support for a hood prop. Maybe it was deleted when a new radiator support was installed after a front end hit?
Quote from: gbart14 on November 18, 2020, 11:15:09 AM
Nice car, Ron. I am not trying to stir up controversy with those who know the concours details but I have seen lesser cars in museums with rave reviews. Gold cap on fruit jar master cylinder, springs on hood plus a hood prop, incorrect headers, etc. These photos are of 5S238 up here in Oregon at Word of Speed museum before it closed. FYI, my 5S243 did not have any provision on the radiator support for a hood prop. Maybe it was deleted when a new radiator support was installed after a front end hit?
Your post reads like you may have missed the point or didn't read the reason for the thread. No disputing that the car looks great. The issue is when a seller makes a claim of a near perfect historical restoration and award winning and it is not . Not to say it couldn't win in the future if ever entered in a Shelby venue. Hopefully constructive critique that the seller (I want to remind) ASKED FOR will help him on the way to making the restoration more historically correct. We all win if we help him try and attain his goal of better restoration and selling price.
Fully agree!
Some people do their homework before they make extraordinary claims like 99 point car. Several "classic " car sellers do the same thing and when challenged say "owner supplied information" as a cop out. Bogus or unfounded claims are still that and buyers STILL get hurt over those claims. "Standard" features are not rare and replacement/repop parts are just that. Ignorance doesn't justify misleading people in an ad. Considerable time AND money would HAVE to be spent to get this otherwise extremely nice car to a "99 point car". That is a fact.
Quote from: gt350hr on November 18, 2020, 01:21:39 PM
Some people do their homework before they make extraordinary claims like 99 point car. Several "classic " car sellers do the same thing and when challenged say "owner supplied information" as a cop out. Bogus or unfounded claims are still that and buyers STILL get hurt over those claims. "Standard" features are not rare and replacement/repop parts are just that. Ignorance doesn't justify misleading people in an ad. Considerable time AND money would HAVE to be spent to get this otherwise extremely nice car to a "99 point car". That is a fact.
+1
Also to add, there's a difference between 'regular' concours and cars restored with no reproduction parts (Div 1/T-bred)... '99 point car' can mean different things based on different standards.
Yes Randy (gt350hr)...you were right, it is the same Ron Miller from Ford Power Parts (FPP) where you worked years ago and where you met your wife Carol who was working for me at the time. Now that my history is confirmed...
As I replied to Bob Gaines I am NOT, NOR HAVE I EVER CLAIMED TO BE A SHELBY EXPERT! As I am sure you remember, I am an expert on FE Ford Engines and I am very knowledgeable on Sm blks, 351C and 460 series engines, as well as on 65-70 Mustangs, since approximately 400 went through my hands over the years. But I am not considering myself an expert on Mustangs either.
Maybe someday I can only hope to be an expert in all areas, as you seem to portrait yourself for years; I suppose that it is based on your vast knowledge that it gives you the right to criticize and bad month people that you don't consider being at your level of expertise.
If you re-read my text of the car for sale, you will notice that as soon as it was brought to my attention that this car has not been judged at a Shelby event, please note that I rectified it immediately because I realized that it was not accurate for me to claim that it was a 99 point car. With an add on note, I specified that it has not been judged and never graded at a Shelby car show. Also on my outgoing emails in relation with this car, I removed the "99 point car", but I left it listed as a #1 car, which I don't think that this statement could be debatable.
This being said, if for years you kept some grudge against me, about which I totally ignored the cause... or if you have some kind of a personal vendetta against me, why don't you simply come to me directly, either by getting together, or by emailing me or write me a letter to let me know what are the unresolved issues, so we can "bury the hatchet" instead of all this ongoing behind the scenes back stabbing? Who knows, maybe I'll even buy you a chicken dinner!
This country (and the world at large) are in enough turmoil right now, so all of our energies should be focused on healing, being proactive in trying to fix the problems, and helping each other before it is too late, instead of quibbling over some possible minor issues that may have happened 25+ years ago.
And in closing I really appreciate all the feedback received here about what is incorrect about this car and I am looking into everything suggested. Thank you!!
Ron- To address a few issues here, as we get older many begin to complain harder , louder , and faster. I for one became a fan of HP FORDS after attending some of your early shows at your business back in the day. Your involvement in the performance Ford world was a special place for many to be a part of. I seemingly spent every paycheck to make my cars faster, cooler than all of my buddies because of your involvement of the hobby. I bought, sold, traded, many engines and components with you over the years, and learned what worked and didnt work with different engine combinations. The engine that sits in the engine bay of my 67 currently was a HOLMAN MOODY 427 medium riser with race history behind it it. This is the engine combo that I hope to be the fastest original SHELBY, besting the super snakes speed of 175 mph. You planted the seed for a pimply faced teenager... With a need for speed! As a side note on occasion you would make your way out to the valley where we street racers would gather with your 67... HIGH RISER bad boy and tell everyone it was a worn out 390! ;D Ahh lessons learned for those that paid attention. One of my last dealings with you, I brought 2 HOLMAN MOODY 427 cammers, that were crate engines. One was an injected version making over 700 hp the other was a dual quad version making around 650 hp. Glad your still involved with the hobby, dont let the small stuff get to you. Be healthy , be safe. ;)
Well said.
As a former judge I would throw this out there...
Most of the nicest concours Gold cars score around 94-96%. So if you are going to make a claim you have a 99 percent car and it has never been judged nationally, you should expect some blow back.
I believe the original poster asked for criticism.
Just my observation from reading this thread.
Criticism...Critique... close but 2 different meanings.
SUPER NICE CAR!!!
Quote from: Clone65 on November 25, 2020, 12:15:10 PM
Criticism...Critique... close but 2 different meanings.
SUPER NICE CAR!!!
LOL !!
She is now in France: the 6 ° in France and the 3 ° in the south of France :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyjK91lOcdM
Quote from: RPMRon on November 22, 2020, 03:37:52 AM
Yes Randy (gt350hr)...you were right, it is the same Ron Miller from Ford Power Parts (FPP) where you worked years ago and where you met your wife Carol who was working for me at the time. Now that my history is confirmed...
As I replied to Bob Gaines I am NOT, NOR HAVE I EVER CLAIMED TO BE A SHELBY EXPERT! As I am sure you remember, I am an expert on FE Ford Engines and I am very knowledgeable on Sm blks, 351C and 460 series engines, as well as on 65-70 Mustangs, since approximately 400 went through my hands over the years. But I am not considering myself an expert on Mustangs either.
Maybe someday I can only hope to be an expert in all areas, as you seem to portrait yourself for years; I suppose that it is based on your vast knowledge that it gives you the right to criticize and bad month people that you don't consider being at your level of expertise.
If you re-read my text of the car for sale, you will notice that as soon as it was brought to my attention that this car has not been judged at a Shelby event, please note that I rectified it immediately because I realized that it was not accurate for me to claim that it was a 99 point car. With an add on note, I specified that it has not been judged and never graded at a Shelby car show. Also on my outgoing emails in relation with this car, I removed the "99 point car", but I left it listed as a #1 car, which I don't think that this statement could be debatable.
This being said, if for years you kept some grudge against me, about which I totally ignored the cause... or if you have some kind of a personal vendetta against me, why don't you simply come to me directly, either by getting together, or by emailing me or write me a letter to let me know what are the unresolved issues, so we can "bury the hatchet" instead of all this ongoing behind the scenes back stabbing? Who knows, maybe I'll even buy you a chicken dinner!
This country (and the world at large) are in enough turmoil right now, so all of our energies should be focused on healing, being proactive in trying to fix the problems, and helping each other before it is too late, instead of quibbling over some possible minor issues that may have happened 25+ years ago.
And in closing I really appreciate all the feedback received here about what is incorrect about this car and I am looking into everything suggested. Thank you!!
Yes it IS a free country and "I" choose to not be your friend. I see no benefit. I ignore you because I can and there is no grudge or vendetta as you imply. Yes I met my future wife while moonlighting for you , but why does that matter? For the record , I enjoyed helping you at FPP . It's too bad it is no more. You know why Carol and I left , enough said.
When ANYONE makes statements like you did on this car , I respond . If you need to continue this I suggest you go to PMs.
Randy
Its good to know that after many decades of holding feelings in... that we can sorta all get along. Couple of take aways from this, Ron does come across some very good cars for resale- Randy builds some fantastic engines. There is a place for ALL to play in this sandbox. Be well !
Ron has helped many and again , I have no ill will . I chose a different path 34 years ago and I'm still on it. I don't expect (or care) anyone to understand , it's "MY" choice.
Back to the car , no more personal stuff please.
Great looking car, has a few issues, but I'll take it as is !
Why don't the critics post their cars for comparison.
Mine will never be a "99 point" car as long as I own it , but I still know what one should look like /have.
Quote from: gt350hr on September 20, 2021, 05:47:54 PM
Mine will never be a "99 point" car as long as I own it , but I still know what one should look like /have.
That was more of an observation Randy, I appreciate your knowledge but this was direct more at the forum - IMO it's really a nasty place full of what appear to be envious people looking to S#!t on everything. Most have nothing to show but opinions.
When real questionable cars come up, if said car is owned or approved/inspected by the in crowd then even re-stamped numbers are ignored on this forum.
I am glad the registry has no relationship with this forum, if they did they would loose credibility.
I think SAAC should consider calling this forum something other then a SAAC forum, this would avoid any confusion that there may be a connection between the registry and this mess.
Lol, A similar Thread is going on elsewhere on this forum.
https://www.saacforum.com/index.php?topic=16247.0
The supposed Experts and the layman here on the "SAAC" forum will always be butting heads..........It never Ends ::)
There is a lot of back and forth between the claims and the facts. It all started with the fan sticker.
It's certainly helpful to point out the dogs and repro/missing/wrong parts on a car someone is selling.
It's educational for the buyer who is spending his $$$ and even the seller may see why his wrongly restored car isn't worth Barrett Jackson Saturday night prices.
Sometimes though a "100 point" car gets sold without some of those OEM parts that helped it get the score - so it pays to have your purchase preinspected by one of the pros, not the handyman appraiser guy you find in the back of Hemmings.
I've been around these cars for nearly 50 years and don't have the knowledge of the current Concours Judges even though I did help the Yates' judge one year (that was enough for me - I prefer day 2 cars and history). If they are noticing problems in poor quality internet photos I'd believe them.
The criticism I gave would be the same regardless of who represented it OR owned it. It was PURELY in response to the "99 point" assertion , NOTHING more. As I have said from the begining the car is beautiful , just not a 99 pointer.
Quote from: 427hunter on September 20, 2021, 06:05:07 PM
Quote from: gt350hr on September 20, 2021, 05:47:54 PM
Mine will never be a "99 point" car as long as I own it , but I still know what one should look like /have.
That was more of an observation Randy, I appreciate your knowledge but this was direct more at the forum - IMO it's really a nasty place full of what appear to be envious people looking to S#!t on everything. Most have nothing to show but opinions.
When real questionable cars come up, if said car is owned or approved/inspected by the in crowd then even re-stamped numbers are ignored on this forum.
I am glad the registry has no relationship with this forum, if they did they would loose credibility.
I think SAAC should consider calling this forum something other then a SAAC forum, this would avoid any confusion that there may be a connection between the registry and this mess.
You are way off base and if you feel this way why are you even a member of this forum. You obviously got your feelings hurt by one of the experts and you keep grinding your axe. Lay it down and if you have something positive to contribute then do so.
Quote from: Greg on September 21, 2021, 10:58:43 AM
Quote from: 427hunter on September 20, 2021, 06:05:07 PM
Quote from: gt350hr on September 20, 2021, 05:47:54 PM
Mine will never be a "99 point" car as long as I own it , but I still know what one should look like /have.
That was more of an observation Randy, I appreciate your knowledge but this was direct more at the forum - IMO it's really a nasty place full of what appear to be envious people looking to S#!t on everything. Most have nothing to show but opinions.
When real questionable cars come up, if said car is owned or approved/inspected by the in crowd then even re-stamped numbers are ignored on this forum.
I am glad the registry has no relationship with this forum, if they did they would loose credibility.
I think SAAC should consider calling this forum something other then a SAAC forum, this would avoid any confusion that there may be a connection between the registry and this mess.
You are way off base and if you feel this way why are you even a member of this forum. You obviously got your feelings hurt by one of the experts and you keep grinding your axe. Lay it down and if you have something positive to contribute then do so.
Not true at all, look through every post I made or respond to, it's an open book. I just think you (and those like you) have nothing to show us but your opinion. You can see what I own, what do you own ?
Quote from: 427hunter on September 21, 2021, 11:02:39 AM
Quote from: Greg on September 21, 2021, 10:58:43 AM
Quote from: 427hunter on September 20, 2021, 06:05:07 PM
Quote from: gt350hr on September 20, 2021, 05:47:54 PM
Mine will never be a "99 point" car as long as I own it , but I still know what one should look like /have.
That was more of an observation Randy, I appreciate your knowledge but this was direct more at the forum - IMO it's really a nasty place full of what appear to be envious people looking to S#!t on everything. Most have nothing to show but opinions.
When real questionable cars come up, if said car is owned or approved/inspected by the in crowd then even re-stamped numbers are ignored on this forum.
I am glad the registry has no relationship with this forum, if they did they would loose credibility.
I think SAAC should consider calling this forum something other then a SAAC forum, this would avoid any confusion that there may be a connection between the registry and this mess.
You are way off base and if you feel this way why are you even a member of this forum. You obviously got your feelings hurt by one of the experts and you keep grinding your axe. Lay it down and if you have something positive to contribute then do so.
Not true at all, look through every post I made or respond to, it's an open book. I just think you (and those like you) have nothing to show us but your opinion. You can see what I own, what do you own ?
As I said, be positive. I don't know why you care or it even matters but for information, I own a 65 GT350, 66 GT350 and a 70 GT500.
I dont feel anyone here that is passionate about these cars are off base. There are a handful of hard core people on here, feel that a concourse car is the best- only way to enjoy their cars. While 99.3 percent would rather enjoy their cars at social gatherings, race events, working on them by themselves and basically enjoying them as they were intended to be enjoyed. Where the OMG moment occurs is when people will pay for something other then a concourse car, and this leaves them in a scratching ass position that is hard for them to digest. Its like a freight train that cant be stopped, people want what they want and will pay what they want! Why fight the system... enjoy everyone and their cars for what they are, there are so few running around any more. Look at the latest SAAC event... 25-30 cars thats not a good thing. All the condemnation of everyone and their cars makes this place less and less every year. How bout a few atta boys instead of a F U your car doesnt live up to my expectations. From a casual observer of 45 years-
Quote from: Greg on September 21, 2021, 11:13:28 AM
Quote from: 427hunter on September 21, 2021, 11:02:39 AM
Quote from: Greg on September 21, 2021, 10:58:43 AM
Quote from: 427hunter on September 20, 2021, 06:05:07 PM
Quote from: gt350hr on September 20, 2021, 05:47:54 PM
Mine will never be a "99 point" car as long as I own it , but I still know what one should look like /have.
That was more of an observation Randy, I appreciate your knowledge but this was direct more at the forum - IMO it's really a nasty place full of what appear to be envious people looking to S#!t on everything. Most have nothing to show but opinions.
When real questionable cars come up, if said car is owned or approved/inspected by the in crowd then even re-stamped numbers are ignored on this forum.
I am glad the registry has no relationship with this forum, if they did they would loose credibility.
I think SAAC should consider calling this forum something other then a SAAC forum, this would avoid any confusion that there may be a connection between the registry and this mess.
You are way off base and if you feel this way why are you even a member of this forum. You obviously got your feelings hurt by one of the experts and you keep grinding your axe. Lay it down and if you have something positive to contribute then do so.
Not true at all, look through every post I made or respond to, it's an open book. I just think you (and those like you) have nothing to show us but your opinion. You can see what I own, what do you own ?
As I said, be positive. I don't know why you care or it even matters but for information, I own a 65 GT350, 66 GT350 and a 70 GT500.
Great, now please share what number cars you own and some photos so we can see your proper restoration in comparison. If you actually own these cars and they are correctly restored I will gladly eat my words. I found that most on the shelby forum lie and currently don't own a Shelby.
427hunter,
I would like to ask a simple question. "In your opinion , is the subject car a 99 point restoration?"
Quote from: 427heaven on September 21, 2021, 11:19:23 AMa handful of hard core people on here, feel that a concourse car is the best- only way to enjoy their cars. While 99.3 percent would rather enjoy their cars at social gatherings, race events, working on them by themselves and basically enjoying them as they were intended to be enjoyed.
I think your percentage is off. A simple look at the number of early cars at a convention will easily show owners now prefer to park and store their cars no matter what their point total is. Also more and more cars have disappeared into private collections never to be seen again until the owner decides to auction it off for his next whim.
Quote from: gt350hr on September 21, 2021, 12:03:05 PM
427hunter,
I would like to ask a simple question. "In your opinion , is the subject car a 99 point restoration?"
The car was/is not my point, my point is this forum has turned into a S#!t show. There are few actual Shelby owners on the forum, as you know most lie about what the own, most can't turn a wrench, and clearly have never restored a car themselves. If you or Bob get on the finer details of things I listen and respect your observations and opinions, many here have nothing, not a car or a valid opinion since they have no concept of what it takes to restore a car. You notice the usual suspects never share their vin numbers or a photo. My opinion is if you don't own a shelby, can't turn a wrench, your car is a POS , you shouldn't be throwing rocks.
Quote from: 427hunter on September 21, 2021, 11:21:42 AM
Quote from: Greg on September 21, 2021, 11:13:28 AM
Quote from: 427hunter on September 21, 2021, 11:02:39 AM
Quote from: Greg on September 21, 2021, 10:58:43 AM
Quote from: 427hunter on September 20, 2021, 06:05:07 PM
Quote from: gt350hr on September 20, 2021, 05:47:54 PM
Mine will never be a "99 point" car as long as I own it , but I still know what one should look like /have.
That was more of an observation Randy, I appreciate your knowledge but this was direct more at the forum - IMO it's really a nasty place full of what appear to be envious people looking to S#!t on everything. Most have nothing to show but opinions.
When real questionable cars come up, if said car is owned or approved/inspected by the in crowd then even re-stamped numbers are ignored on this forum.
I am glad the registry has no relationship with this forum, if they did they would loose credibility.
I think SAAC should consider calling this forum something other then a SAAC forum, this would avoid any confusion that there may be a connection between the registry and this mess.
You are way off base and if you feel this way why are you even a member of this forum. You obviously got your feelings hurt by one of the experts and you keep grinding your axe. Lay it down and if you have something positive to contribute then do so.
Not true at all, look through every post I made or respond to, it's an open book. I just think you (and those like you) have nothing to show us but your opinion. You can see what I own, what do you own ?
As I said, be positive. I don't know why you care or it even matters but for information, I own a 65 GT350, 66 GT350 and a 70 GT500.
Great, now please share what number cars you own and some photos so we can see your proper restoration in comparison. If you actually own these cars and they are correctly restored I will gladly eat my words. I found that most on the shelby forum lie and currently don't own a Shelby.
It's funny how you think that owning a Shelby is an entry card to enter or speak in some mysterious world or it makes a person special, sir it doesn't. Like me, you have been blessed to be a caretaker of the brand, it will outlive you and someone else will carry it on.
BTW.... in the background is a 66 Rcode Fairlane (1 of 57 factory ford drag cars). Not in the picture is Phil Bonners 64 LW Rcode Galaxie 1 or 25 HiRiser 4speed cars and 63 1/2 rode Galaxie. I don't have pictures of the 66 on my computer but call Howard if you need assurance he can verify.
The 65 is number 109 original paint, drivetrain, unrestored car. The 66 is 1078 undergoing restoration the original engine has been restored and was submitted to this site for their review and critique (of which I was not offended but glad to have the comments). The 70 is previous bronze winner at a SAAC meet a number of years ago is number is 483281 (SCJ, drag pack, 4speed).
One question, how old are you?
427hunter,
I asked you a question. By your definition you are "qualified" to give your opinion. Is it a 99 point car?
Quote from: gt350hr on September 21, 2021, 01:01:43 PM
427hunter,
I asked you a question. By your definition you are "qualified" to give your opinion. Is it a 99 point car?
No, but sh!ting on everything is not the answer.
Quote from: Greg on September 21, 2021, 12:59:42 PM
Quote from: 427hunter on September 21, 2021, 11:21:42 AM
Quote from: Greg on September 21, 2021, 11:13:28 AM
Quote from: 427hunter on September 21, 2021, 11:02:39 AM
Quote from: Greg on September 21, 2021, 10:58:43 AM
Quote from: 427hunter on September 20, 2021, 06:05:07 PM
Quote from: gt350hr on September 20, 2021, 05:47:54 PM
Mine will never be a "99 point" car as long as I own it , but I still know what one should look like /have.
That was more of an observation Randy, I appreciate your knowledge but this was direct more at the forum - IMO it's really a nasty place full of what appear to be envious people looking to S#!t on everything. Most have nothing to show but opinions.
When real questionable cars come up, if said car is owned or approved/inspected by the in crowd then even re-stamped numbers are ignored on this forum.
I am glad the registry has no relationship with this forum, if they did they would loose credibility.
I think SAAC should consider calling this forum something other then a SAAC forum, this would avoid any confusion that there may be a connection between the registry and this mess.
You are way off base and if you feel this way why are you even a member of this forum. You obviously got your feelings hurt by one of the experts and you keep grinding your axe. Lay it down and if you have something positive to contribute then do so.
Not true at all, look through every post I made or respond to, it's an open book. I just think you (and those like you) have nothing to show us but your opinion. You can see what I own, what do you own ?
As I said, be positive. I don't know why you care or it even matters but for information, I own a 65 GT350, 66 GT350 and a 70 GT500.
Great, now please share what number cars you own and some photos so we can see your proper restoration in comparison. If you actually own these cars and they are correctly restored I will gladly eat my words. I found that most on the shelby forum lie and currently don't own a Shelby.
It's funny how you think that owning a Shelby is an entry card to enter or speak in some mysterious world or it makes a person special, sir it doesn't. Like me, you have been blessed to be a caretaker of the brand, it will outlive you and someone else will carry it on.
BTW.... in the background is a 66 Rcode Fairlane (1 of 57 factory ford drag cars). Not in the picture is Phil Bonners 64 LW Rcode Galaxie 1 or 25 HiRiser 4speed cars and 63 1/2 rode Galaxie. I don't have pictures of the 66 on my computer but call Howard if you need assurance he can verify.
The 65 is number 109 original paint, drivetrain, unrestored car. The 66 is 1078 undergoing restoration the original engine has been restored and was submitted to this site for their review and critique (of which I was not offended but glad to have the comments). The 70 is previous bronze winner at a SAAC meet a number of years ago is number is 483281 (SCJ, drag pack, 4speed).
One question, how old are you?
52, I am actually shocked you own anything based on your postings here. I'll have to eat my words if you can turn a wrench and restored the 70 yourself.
So that makes you and I in agreement that it is not a 99 point car . Now for those here that are not "qualified" to offer their opinions like you and I , "I" offered some key things ( in my original critique ) that kept it from being a 99 pointer as Ron felt it was. My comments were not to degrade the car , just the claim.
Quote from: gt350hr on September 21, 2021, 01:48:21 PM
So that makes you and I in agreement that it is not a 99 point car . Now for those here that are not "qualified" to offer their opinions like you and I , "I" offered some key things ( in my original critique ) that kept it from being a 99 pointer as Ron felt it was. My comments were not to degrade the car , just the claim.
I just hate the pile on nonsense here, it's a lot of work to restore a car, lots of critics few have anything. I own a few early Vette's, everyone you meet claims to be an NCRS judge but funny enough few if any have a car. Drives me nuts to hear a bunch of B.S. from people that don't have any idea what it takes.
Not everyone is as fortunate as we are.
I think you should call those people by their screen names, since the purge has started!
I mean heck, why not include the members who never post anything helpful or constructive.
Quote from: 427hunter on September 21, 2021, 01:57:19 PM
I just hate the pile on nonsense here, it's a lot of work to restore a car, lots of critics few have anything. I own a few early Vette's, everyone you meet claims to be an NCRS judge but funny enough few if any have a car. Drives me nuts to hear a bunch of B.S. from people that don't have any idea what it takes.
It's not a lot more work to restore it right the first time. More expensive for correct date code or NOS parts but nearly the same labor. I wouldn't call it pile on - since people have cited different problems they see. I've owned 4 vettes (54, 63, 66, 86) and never wanted or felt a need to see an NCRS Judge even though the 86 was a garage kept sub 20,000 mile car when I got it around 2010 the only thing not original was the battery. The guy in New Zealand who bought it was happy to pay 3+ times what I paid for it 6 months earlier.
I'm in the same boat as Randy - my cars will never be 100 pointers. They are too much fun to drive. And you are right I no longer have any CS products but do have 50+ years experience with the Marque.
Quote from: 427hunter on September 21, 2021, 01:57:19 PM
Quote from: gt350hr on September 21, 2021, 01:48:21 PM
So that makes you and I in agreement that it is not a 99 point car . Now for those here that are not "qualified" to offer their opinions like you and I , "I" offered some key things ( in my original critique ) that kept it from being a 99 pointer as Ron felt it was. My comments were not to degrade the car , just the claim.
I just hate the pile on nonsense here, it's a lot of work to restore a car, lots of critics few have anything. I own a few early Vette's, everyone you meet claims to be an NCRS judge but funny enough few if any have a car. Drives me nuts to hear a bunch of B.S. from people that don't have any idea what it takes.
As we can agree, I don't know you and you don't know me but you made an assumption about me that was incorrect. I do all my own engine SB and FE's builds, metal work, research, parts sourcing so I am use to getting my hands dirty. This forum has many, many great aspects and we have to focus on that, the nonsense you are talking about is a very small portion of this site.
You may have a lot to contribute to the community but your posts seem to come from a disposition of "everyone is a bunch of kick stands that don't know" but that is not always the case. Let's be positive and move the SAAC forward.
Amen to that.
Quote from: Greg on September 21, 2021, 04:13:40 PM
Quote from: 427hunter on September 21, 2021, 01:57:19 PM
Quote from: gt350hr on September 21, 2021, 01:48:21 PM
So that makes you and I in agreement that it is not a 99 point car . Now for those here that are not "qualified" to offer their opinions like you and I , "I" offered some key things ( in my original critique ) that kept it from being a 99 pointer as Ron felt it was. My comments were not to degrade the car , just the claim.
I just hate the pile on nonsense here, it's a lot of work to restore a car, lots of critics few have anything. I own a few early Vette's, everyone you meet claims to be an NCRS judge but funny enough few if any have a car. Drives me nuts to hear a bunch of B.S. from people that don't have any idea what it takes.
As we can agree, I don't know you and you don't know me but you made an assumption about me that was incorrect. I do all my own engine SB and FE's builds, metal work, research, parts sourcing so I am use to getting my hands dirty. This forum has many, many great aspects and we have to focus on that, the nonsense you are talking about is a very small portion of this site.
You may have a lot to contribute to the community but your posts seem to come from a disposition of "everyone is a bunch of kick stands that don't know" but that is not always the case. Let's be positive and move the SAAC forward.
Well I have to eat my words then, I assume that most who can turn a wrench can appreciate how hard it all is. It just appears every time a car comes up for sale or auction the seagulls fly in. I stand corrected on my assumption.
My cars are strictly drivers and I obviously don't make many inputs to the forum myself. However, I'm appreciative of those experts that take the time to do so. If I want to refurb or replace something on my cars I still refer to concours level critiques/discussion as a benchmark or guideline. Also, sometimes use the forum as "database" to do specific searches. That's one of the ways I enjoy the hobby. The critiques I've seen generally seem to focus on the car and not the owner/buyer with exception of apparent deception or fraud. I would hate to see suppression of expert or knowledgeable input (regardless of how much wrench turning they're doing or cars they currently own) by a few who want to determine the criteria for who's worthy of making inputs to this forum.
Ron I don't know much about that (or any other) 1965 Shelby. But I do know that as a former customer of yours you always treated me well and sold me things at fair prices. I went to your store fronts a couple times in the 1990's, can't remember exactly where they were (Paramount and maybe Garden Grove?) but OMG the Ford FE parts were there and the prices were excellent. Later, after your stores were gone, I bought things from you at the Long Beach Hi Performance swap meet several times. Dealing with you when I lived in Texas and you were sending out the fliers every month - it was special.
Keep up the good work and don't let the internet experts get you down.
Quote from: RPMRon on November 22, 2020, 03:37:52 AM
Yes Randy (gt350hr)...you were right, it is the same Ron Miller from Ford Power Parts (FPP) where you worked years ago and where you met your wife Carol who was working for me at the time. Now that my history is confirmed...
As I replied to Bob Gaines I am NOT, NOR HAVE I EVER CLAIMED TO BE A SHELBY EXPERT! As I am sure you remember, I am an expert on FE Ford Engines and I am very knowledgeable on Sm blks, 351C and 460 series engines, as well as on 65-70 Mustangs, since approximately 400 went through my hands over the years. But I am not considering myself an expert on Mustangs either.
Maybe someday I can only hope to be an expert in all areas, as you seem to portrait yourself for years; I suppose that it is based on your vast knowledge that it gives you the right to criticize and bad month people that you don't consider being at your level of expertise.
If you re-read my text of the car for sale, you will notice that as soon as it was brought to my attention that this car has not been judged at a Shelby event, please note that I rectified it immediately because I realized that it was not accurate for me to claim that it was a 99 point car. With an add on note, I specified that it has not been judged and never graded at a Shelby car show. Also on my outgoing emails in relation with this car, I removed the "99 point car", but I left it listed as a #1 car, which I don't think that this statement could be debatable.
This being said, if for years you kept some grudge against me, about which I totally ignored the cause... or if you have some kind of a personal vendetta against me, why don't you simply come to me directly, either by getting together, or by emailing me or write me a letter to let me know what are the unresolved issues, so we can "bury the hatchet" instead of all this ongoing behind the scenes back stabbing? Who knows, maybe I'll even buy you a chicken dinner!
This country (and the world at large) are in enough turmoil right now, so all of our energies should be focused on healing, being proactive in trying to fix the problems, and helping each other before it is too late, instead of quibbling over some possible minor issues that may have happened 25+ years ago.
And in closing I really appreciate all the feedback received here about what is incorrect about this car and I am looking into everything suggested. Thank you!!
Quote from: Royce Peterson on September 21, 2021, 08:31:58 PM
Ron ...went to your store fronts a couple times in the 1990's, can't remember exactly where they were
Got ya beat bought and sold stuff with Ron when he was just starting out in his mom's garage in Arcadia.
I only heard about FPP after I went to the Columbus All Ford Swap meet in 1991. Wish I had known him earlier.
We're talkin Leda Lane. Early 70s. when Ron pulled the garage roof down w a block-and-tackle, but the FE wasn't hurt!
So back to the 99 percent car or maybe it was a 79 percent car? It might have been raced, had flares, upside down floor plugs, cheap HIPO 289 air cleaner sticker... One thing we know, it is amongst the finest and rarest of the breed. Someone bought it, and someone sold it, they agreed on price so all is good. Bad thing is many are going to foreign lands to never be seen again stateside. That must be a Hot bed for classic cars as I sold an A sedan 66 coupe race car there awhile back. They are going to have some fantastic cars, roaring up and down the French Riviera... Good on them! ;)
There has never been a question that Ron brokered some of the world's rarest Ford parts. Jay Cushman would be his only rival if Ron were still in business.
Quote from: gt350hr on September 22, 2021, 10:57:41 AM
There has never been a question that Ron brokered some of the world's rarest Ford parts. Jay Cushman would be his only rival if Ron were still in business.
The parts that went through Ron's business were phenomenal and the best variety of parts I ever saw were the private collections that showed up after hours. All of the remaining patterns that Art Francis showed up with. The day the pallet of medium riser new castings arrived. I found a ton , no actually of 427 and BOSS 429 stuff there. But the best things I ever got out of FPP was my friendship with Randy Gillis and Gus Tarrab.
John
+1 John