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SAAC Forum => SAAC Forum Discussion Area => Topic started by: 64cobra on December 26, 2020, 09:32:49 PM

Title: 67 289 hipo Crane fireball heads
Post by: 64cobra on December 26, 2020, 09:32:49 PM
I have a set of these I need to list on Ebay.  They are dated 7B2.  Were they just an aftermarket part offered by Crane or were they used by Ford/SA in some capacity.
Title: Re: 67 289 hipo Crane fireball heads
Post by: Bob Gaines on December 26, 2020, 09:49:05 PM
I have a set of these I need to list on Ebay.  They are dated 7B2.  Were they just an aftermarket part offered by Crane or were they used by Ford/SA in some capacity.
They weren't used by Ford or SA but that does not diminish the fact that they are still very extremely desirable heads . Especially for the day 2 crowd. 
Title: Re: 67 289 hipo Crane fireball heads
Post by: 6s1640 on December 26, 2020, 09:53:01 PM
Well, I can't find them.  Anyone?  I found other HiPo 289 heads, but not Fireball.

Thanks

Cory
Title: Re: 67 289 hipo Crane fireball heads
Post by: Bob Gaines on December 26, 2020, 10:20:29 PM
Well, I can't find them.  Anyone?  I found other HiPo 289 heads, but not Fireball.

Thanks

Cory
If you are not familiar with Fireball heads they were a Crane Cam produced item back in the day . I am not sure when they stopped producing them. Crane typically took original hipo heads then did some combustion chamber work and ported the intake and polished the intake and exhaust ports. They also installed the largest intake and exhaust valves you could squeeze in.
Title: Re: 67 289 hipo Crane fireball heads
Post by: CSX2259 on December 26, 2020, 10:37:46 PM
I believe they also reshaped the exhaust port to a round configuration vs the rectangular shape.
Title: Re: 67 289 hipo Crane fireball heads
Post by: 64cobra on December 27, 2020, 06:50:33 AM
Correct.  These have a round exhaust port
Title: Re: 67 289 hipo Crane fireball heads
Post by: 68GT350roadracer on December 28, 2020, 06:51:10 AM
What are you asking for them?
Title: Re: 67 289 hipo Crane fireball heads
Post by: 64cobra on December 28, 2020, 08:29:17 AM
I’ll put them up on ebay at no reserve if anyone is interested
No clue what they are worth.
Title: Re: 67 289 hipo Crane fireball heads
Post by: roddster on December 28, 2020, 10:12:58 AM
  Another way of finding them: Post your seller ID here on the forum.
Title: Re: 67 289 hipo Crane fireball heads
Post by: gt350hr on December 28, 2020, 11:46:50 AM
    The round port idea was unique to the Crane heads. "In the day"  , virtually ANYTHING you ground on the head made it better! Harvey knew the SBFord needed help so he began offering them. The round port is not "ideal" and racers soon figured that out so the idea never really "caught on". When Ford stopped producing the heads ( '68) Crane bought pallets of them and offered them until they ran out ( around '72). To work "properly" the header flange should be round as well and the only way to get that was custom headers "back then". They are still C5OE castings but are out performed by ANY aluminum aftermarket head even one from China. The technology is just that much better.
    Randy
Title: Re: 67 289 hipo Crane fireball heads
Post by: 6s1640 on December 28, 2020, 05:29:38 PM
Well, I can't find them.  Anyone?  I found other HiPo 289 heads, but not Fireball.

Thanks

Cory
If you are not familiar with Fireball heads they were a Crane Cam produced item back in the day . I am not sure when they stopped producing them. Crane typically took original hipo heads then did some combustion chamber work and ported the intake and polished the intake and exhaust ports. They also installed the largest intake and exhaust valves you could squeeze in.

Hi Bob, Thank you for the info.  I am familiar with the modified heads.  I still can’t find them.  Can you please post the link?

Thanks

Cory
Title: Re: 67 289 hipo Crane fireball heads
Post by: 64cobra on December 28, 2020, 06:40:37 PM
I havent had time to grab them from the shop.  I’ll put on ebay soon.   
I’ll try to attach a pic here
Title: Re: 67 289 hipo Crane fireball heads
Post by: Bob Gaines on December 28, 2020, 06:50:41 PM
Well, I can't find them.  Anyone?  I found other HiPo 289 heads, but not Fireball.

Thanks

Cory
If you are not familiar with Fireball heads they were a Crane Cam produced item back in the day . I am not sure when they stopped producing them. Crane typically took original hipo heads then did some combustion chamber work and ported the intake and polished the intake and exhaust ports. They also installed the largest intake and exhaust valves you could squeeze in.

Hi Bob, Thank you for the info.  I am familiar with the modified heads.  I still can’t find them.  Can you please post the link?

Thanks

Cory
Cory, in his first post he said "I have a set of these I need to list on Ebay" . Since the post reads like they were not on ebay yet and you were asking about them I thought you were unaware of what they were. I can't post a link because at this time they are still not on ebay. Sorry for the confusion.
Title: Re: 67 289 hipo Crane fireball heads
Post by: 6s1640 on December 28, 2020, 07:14:55 PM
Hi Bob, Okay. That makes sense why can’t find.  Thank you.  I am not sure then why the OP
posted the thread if he was not going to do it right away or was hoping to get an offer before posting.  His posted intensions really had me confused.  Thanks for the clarification.

Cory
Title: Re: 67 289 hipo Crane fireball heads
Post by: 64cobra on December 28, 2020, 08:45:13 PM
If its not snowing tomorrow I will get to the shop to take pictures tomorrow.  They will be listed tomorrow night at no reserve like every other part from JC.  Search seller: mblackmd
Title: Re: 67 289 hipo Crane fireball heads
Post by: s2ms on December 29, 2020, 12:19:10 PM
https://www.ebay.com/itm/193826868354
Title: Re: 67 289 hipo Crane fireball heads
Post by: pbf777 on December 29, 2020, 04:58:58 PM
     The examples of the Crane "Fire-Ball" heads that have come through our shop over the decades had that stamped in the end of the head castings, do these?

     The port work was done by hand and it would vary some in it's presentation, but those that I have been exposed to looked different from yours?  But maybe not?      :-\

      Scott.

     
Title: Re: 67 289 hipo Crane fireball heads
Post by: 64cobra on December 29, 2020, 07:04:34 PM
No stamping that I can see.  Do you have a picture of what yours looked like?
Title: Re: 67 289 hipo Crane fireball heads
Post by: 6s2055 on December 30, 2020, 12:52:37 AM
Bob,
Your description of these heads almost sound the same as Mondello (sp) heads I had on my second Cobra. Larger valves to go along with the Webers.
Title: Re: 67 289 hipo Crane fireball heads
Post by: Bob Gaines on December 30, 2020, 12:55:16 AM
Bob,
Your description of these heads almost sound the same as Mondello (sp) heads I had on my second Cobra. Larger valves to go along with the Webers.
Yep kind of the same.
Title: Re: 67 289 hipo Crane fireball heads
Post by: 427heaven on December 30, 2020, 07:27:08 AM
Cool piece of history! Looks Like the motor let go at some point and had pieces of pistons and valves rattling around in the combustion chambers, or is that the way they were sold? :(
Title: Re: 67 289 hipo Crane fireball heads
Post by: shelbydoug on December 30, 2020, 09:18:39 AM
Cool piece of history! Looks Like the motor let go at some point and had pieces of pistons and valves rattling around in the combustion chambers, or is that the way they were sold? :(

Details like that are sometimes difficult to tell.

Those heads had lots of welding put into them during the modification.

KNOWING how thin the original castings are in the ports themselves makes me question their long term durability to begin with as the exhausts often will hole out.

Ironically those heads were advertised in a Sears "high-performance" catalog of the day. I had one but my father kept throwing out anything to do with cars back then.
That catalog would be cool to still have.

The other thing is that apparently even the GT40 castings would only produce head flow numbers around 240 with the regular k heads maxed out at around 220 so performance is all relative.

The AFR sb heads I have are advertised as flowing 296 @ .500. That is better then a stock Boss 302 head and a considerable difference to the original, even professionally ported castings.
Title: Re: 67 289 hipo Crane fireball heads
Post by: gt350hr on December 30, 2020, 12:37:43 PM
   Crane did NOT do any welding on the head to get the round ports. That was part of the problems with the porting . The port wasn't designed to be round and round is NOT the most efficient design. In this case a rounded top , flat bottom would have been better. ALSO , "flow bench" numbers are not absolutes. If they were , flow benches would have drag slicks so we could race them.
    Randy
Title: Re: 67 289 hipo Crane fireball heads
Post by: shelbydoug on December 30, 2020, 12:56:52 PM
   Crane did NOT do any welding on the head to get the round ports. That was part of the problems with the porting . The port wasn't designed to be round and round is NOT the most efficient design. In this case a rounded top , flat bottom would have been better. ALSO , "flow bench" numbers are not absolutes. If they were , flow benches would have drag slicks so we could race them.
    Randy

Those heads pictured appear to have the exhaust port air injector holes welded up so apparently there was welding done to them. Service heads had air injector holes by the date of those castings I think?

Flow numbers are an indication of performance potential. The numbers make it possible, the humans screw it up. It's kind of a necessary balance to keep the Universe from blowing up. ;)

An intake flow number of 100cfm is an indication of don't even bother.  ;D
Title: Re: 67 289 hipo Crane fireball heads
Post by: gt350hr on December 30, 2020, 02:57:13 PM
 Doug ,
     The smog ports were likely plugged with the plugs provided by Ford with the heads and machined flat then ported. "Welding them" would have shot the price out of site and "back then" the heads retailed for $500 or less.
    Cylinder head flow numbers aren't always indicative of more power. Dale Eicke (rip) "picked up" my "Pro Stock" Cleveland heads 25 CFM with a "trick" valve job and the ET didn't change at all when I put them back on the engine. For airflow gains ( or literally any other modification) to show an improvement , the engine had to be lacking in that area. "Most" of the time that is true , but not "always". I see this allot in my "day job".
    Randy.
Title: Re: 67 289 hipo Crane fireball heads
Post by: shelbydoug on December 30, 2020, 03:07:41 PM
Doug ,
     The smog ports were likely plugged with the plugs provided by Ford with the heads and machined flat then ported. "Welding them" would have shot the price out of site and "back then" the heads retailed for $500 or less.
    Cylinder head flow numbers aren't always indicative of more power. Dale Eicke (rip) "picked up" my "Pro Stock" Cleveland heads 25 CFM with a "trick" valve job and the ET didn't change at all when I put them back on the engine. For airflow gains ( or literally any other modification) to show an improvement , the engine had to be lacking in that area. "Most" of the time that is true , but not "always". I see this allot in my "day job".
    Randy.

I'm not arguing but one factor that is overlooked on air flow is that there is no point at making the ports flow more then an engine can pump at it's maximum used rpm.

A Boss 302 that flows 380 on the intakes is pointless unless you ARE actually going to turn 10,000 rpm with it.

240 to 250 on a 289 in the day actually might in fact be as much air as that displacement could pump at 7,000 rpm?


Look at the bump at 10 o'clock on this pic. That's a welded up air injector hole. A very nice job I might add too. Look at the corresponding shadow line inside the port. See it?
Title: Re: 67 289 hipo Crane fireball heads
Post by: gt350hr on December 31, 2020, 11:42:31 AM
     I see the circle in the port but not a weld on the outside. '67 and '68 ( C7ZE/C8ZE) castings have the "bump" at 10 o'clock but it isn't always drilled. When the heads were sold new over the counter , they came with intake valves and four plugs for the smog ports. Notice the semicircle in the blue paint.The is where the exhaust manifold was notched for tube clearance. My "street" tunnelport 302 heads had plugged smog ports. When ported they had a similar circle in the port too where the end of the plug was ground off to match the porting.
Title: Re: 67 289 hipo Crane fireball heads
Post by: shelbydoug on December 31, 2020, 03:10:16 PM
In any case, it doesn't really matter. My injector ports are simply plugged with a socket set screw. That works fine, but the plugs are ground back at the point they project into the ports.

More importantly, having had mine hole through into the water jacket on one exhaust with much less porting then those, realistically I wouldn't expect those heads to have great longevity.

As you pointed out the lower portion of the port isn't nearly as important as the top and ironically there isn't any water jacket to hole through into on the exterior top of the port. The bottom is another issue.

I MAY have seen a similar "porting" on similar heads in a "D" shape with the bottoms left alone and basically flat? I don't have pictures of those. That was before electricity and before cameras were invented. ;D

These are a very interesting and cool '60's artifact to have and play with now and again though and having the heads in hand would end this idle speculation as well.  8)
Title: Re: 67 289 hipo Crane fireball heads
Post by: 2112 on December 31, 2020, 11:08:47 PM
If I needed the top of the line iron head, I would look for N351 heads;

https://performanceparts.ford.com/download/pdfs/N351_Sportsman_Head_Product_Specs.pdf

Of course, probably against the rules of your sanctioning body.
Title: Re: 67 289 hipo Crane fireball heads
Post by: shelbydoug on January 01, 2021, 08:15:14 AM
If I needed the top of the line iron head, I would look for N351 heads;

https://performanceparts.ford.com/download/pdfs/N351_Sportsman_Head_Product_Specs.pdf

Of course, probably against the rules of your sanctioning body.

You're missing the point Kemosabe.  As the theme lyrics say, "let us return to the days of yesteryear".

It's all about what was, how these machines ARE time machines and how they continue to be relevant today.

You don't need to pretend to be Zorro, the Lone Ranger or Batman. Drive one of Shelby's magical concoctions and YOU are "the Man". You're in a better place then fiction could ever put you into.

Those Crane heads are just another really good trip to back when.
Title: Re: 67 289 hipo Crane fireball heads
Post by: 64cobra on January 01, 2021, 08:36:19 AM
Well said.  I have had many people email me about these heads wanting to build a “vintage” race engine.  They are not wanting the new stuff.   They want a period correct part so they can recreate an authentic race engine from the 60’s.




If I needed the top of the line iron head, I would look for N351 heads;

https://performanceparts.ford.com/download/pdfs/N351_Sportsman_Head_Product_Specs.pdf

Of course, probably against the rules of your sanctioning body.

You're missing the point Kemosabe.  As the theme lyrics say, "let us return to the days of yesteryear".

It's all about what was, how these machines ARE time machines and how they continue to be relevant today.

You don't need to pretend to be Zorro, the Lone Ranger or Batman. Drive one of Shelby's magical concoctions and YOU are "the Man". You're in a better place then fiction could ever put you into.

Those Crane heads are just another really good trip to back when.
Title: Re: 67 289 hipo Crane fireball heads
Post by: shelbydoug on January 01, 2021, 12:04:57 PM
Well said.  I have had many people email me about these heads wanting to build a “vintage” race engine.  They are not wanting the new stuff.   They want a period correct part so they can recreate an authentic race engine from the 60’s.




If I needed the top of the line iron head, I would look for N351 heads;

https://performanceparts.ford.com/download/pdfs/N351_Sportsman_Head_Product_Specs.pdf

Of course, probably against the rules of your sanctioning body.

You're missing the point Kemosabe.  As the theme lyrics say, "let us return to the days of yesteryear".

It's all about what was, how these machines ARE time machines and how they continue to be relevant today.

You don't need to pretend to be Zorro, the Lone Ranger or Batman. Drive one of Shelby's magical concoctions and YOU are "the Man". You're in a better place then fiction could ever put you into.

Those Crane heads are just another really good trip to back when.

I understand how some just don't get it without the magic glasses. It's about owning "ultimate's". It takes some a good deal of time to realize that.

I'm still on the high that started almost 60 years ago. I've never regretted the trip.
Title: Re: 67 289 hipo Crane fireball heads
Post by: 2112 on January 01, 2021, 01:14:10 PM
If I needed the top of the line iron head, I would look for N351 heads;

https://performanceparts.ford.com/download/pdfs/N351_Sportsman_Head_Product_Specs.pdf

Of course, probably against the rules of your sanctioning body.

You're missing the point Kemosabe.  As the theme lyrics say, "let us return to the days of yesteryear".

It's all about what was, how these machines ARE time machines and how they continue to be relevant today.

You don't need to pretend to be Zorro, the Lone Ranger or Batman. Drive one of Shelby's magical concoctions and YOU are "the Man". You're in a better place then fiction could ever put you into.

Those Crane heads are just another really good trip to back when.

I am not missing the point. You don't want aluminum heads, right? I get that.

Are you going to be subject to tear down and inspection or just a visual check? Why attempt to polish a turd when there is an iron head, from the factory that will blow the doors off anything from the 60's and appear to be at least somewhat stock?
Title: Re: 67 289 hipo Crane fireball heads
Post by: shelbydoug on January 01, 2021, 02:30:43 PM
I rest my case.  ;)
Title: Re: 67 289 hipo Crane fireball heads
Post by: 2112 on January 01, 2021, 07:05:04 PM
I rest my case.  ;)

To the guy who loves Hooker headers, I say Polish away.
Title: Re: 67 289 hipo Crane fireball heads
Post by: shelbydoug on January 01, 2021, 07:54:09 PM
I rest my case.  ;)

To the guy who loves Hooker headers, I say Polish away.

Not me. Hookers no. (that's Dual 4 barrel) Bellanger's yes.  (...and SuperSnake headers on the '67 500) ;D

Do you mean Polish like from Poland?  :o
Title: Re: 67 289 hipo Crane fireball heads
Post by: 2112 on January 01, 2021, 09:15:13 PM
Polish as in port and polish.