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The History => Shelby American Racing => Topic started by: rockhouse66 on January 12, 2021, 08:25:04 AM

Title: R-Model - Courtland, AL SCCA 1965? 1966?
Post by: rockhouse66 on January 12, 2021, 08:25:04 AM
Can anyone ID this car?  The Walt Hane / Bolton Ford car was there too.

Title: Re: R-Model - Courtland, AL SCCA 1965
Post by: gt350cs on January 12, 2021, 09:34:44 AM
The only GT350 I have listed at Courtland 5/30/65 is the 71 driven by Ben Warren. Sorry I couldn't help.
Title: Re: R-Model - Courtland, AL SCCA 1965
Post by: rockhouse66 on January 12, 2021, 09:47:30 AM
This might possibly have been the 1966 race at Courtland.  It was the year that the Hane car was there because I have a picture of it in this same group of slides.
Title: Re: R-Model - Courtland, AL SCCA 1965
Post by: Richstang on January 12, 2021, 09:54:48 AM
This appears to be 5r100 the (1965 Berry Ford, NJ) 1966 Dockery Ford, NJ sponsored car driven by Marty Krinner.

We currently have no records of him racing at Courtland, AL, which is well out of his Northeast SCCA region.
Also, the photo appears to be from 1966 as the rear wheel is slotted, not the typical torque thrust style.

Can I ask where the photo was sourced from?
There may be more hints to see in other photos to confirm the correct year and location.
Title: Re: R-Model - Courtland, AL SCCA 1965? 1966?
Post by: Richstang on January 12, 2021, 10:01:04 AM
The SCCA region he (5r100) raced in consisted of the following tracks;

-Marlboro MD
-Cumberland, MD
-Vineland, NJ
-Lime Rock, CT
-Thompson, CT
-Bridgehampton, NY
-Watkins Glen, NY
-Connellsville, PA

Nat'l Championship races at Daytona followed by Riverside the next year

Title: Re: R-Model - Courtland, AL SCCA 1965? 1966?
Post by: rockhouse66 on January 12, 2021, 10:08:31 AM
It is/was not uncommon for racers to stray from their Division looking for extra points.  This is a scan of a slide my father shot.  I will post another and the full size version of the previous photo.  I assumed these were at Pensacola until I looked at all of them and I am now pretty sure it was Courtland, AL.  Wide open spaces, pine trees on the property line.  Also, John Gunn is on the 1966 entry list driving an Alfa, and my father helped John with that car and travelled with him a few times to races.

Title: Re: R-Model - Courtland, AL SCCA 1965? 1966?
Post by: Richstang on January 12, 2021, 10:24:22 AM
Alabama seems a bit too far from the Northeast to jump regions for just one race.
In 1966 Dockery Ford (NJ based) had a second team car 5r105 that you might see in the photos from your source.

It looks like it might be at Daytona (11/28/65 Runoffs practice(?) before correcting to the actual race number 15B)...
I noticed the possible embankment of the track in the background of your original photo.

My issue is that slotted wheels showed up later in 1966, and they raced at Riverside for the championship in 1966.
5r100 (15B race number) ran torque thrusts at Daytona in '65.
Title: Re: R-Model - Courtland, AL SCCA 1965? 1966?
Post by: Tom Honegger on January 12, 2021, 03:22:22 PM
Didn't Mark Donohue run wheels in the rear like that? Could this be the Donohue R Model (105?) after he moved on to other rides (1966?)
Title: Re: R-Model - Courtland, AL SCCA 1965? 1966?
Post by: rockhouse66 on January 12, 2021, 03:34:08 PM
I think I can now answer my own question.  This is definitely Courtland, Alabama May, 1966.  I am certain of this because of the other cars present in other photos that are on the entry list for that weekend.  An example being the George Barber Brabham BT-8 which is visible behind the other cars, next to the Barber van.

Looking at my own picture in more detail, and my higher resolution version, I can read Dockery Ford, Morristown NJ on the sail panel.  So with your input I believe this to be 5R100.

I do not see this particular car in online action pictures so it may not have run at all during the weekend or, more likely, ran a Saturday race but not the Sunday race.
Title: Re: R-Model - Courtland, AL SCCA 1965? 1966?
Post by: deathsled on January 12, 2021, 08:53:35 PM
I recognize 78B as the Dockery Ford.  I had a ride in this car back at the Lime Rock Park meeting I believe in 1996.  I also believe that the Dockery family bought the car back at some point and took the car to Peter Klutt of Legendary Motor Car who did an amazing concours restoration that brought the car back to the way it was like ditching the fuel cell it had back in 1996 and so on.  I recall seeing the car in epoxy primer at Klutt's shop quite a while ago.  Thanks for sharing these back-in-the-day pictures....
Title: Re: R-Model - Courtland, AL SCCA 1965? 1966?
Post by: Richstang on January 12, 2021, 10:18:21 PM
I think I can now answer my own question.  This is definitely Courtland, Alabama May, 1966.  I am certain of this because of the other cars present in other photos that are on the entry list for that weekend.  An example being the George Barber Brabham BT-8 which is visible behind the other cars, next to the Barber van.

Looking at my own picture in more detail, and my higher resolution version, I can read Dockery Ford, Morristown NJ on the sail panel.  So with your input I believe this to be 5R100.

I do not see this particular car in online action pictures so it may not have run at all during the weekend or, more likely, ran a Saturday race but not the Sunday race.

Thanks for sharing the other photos and confirming the 'Dockery Ford" lettering on 5r100.

Walt Hane raced 5r103 (#8 BP) on 5/28/66 at Courtland, AL taking 1st place in the BP class.
CSX2448 was in the same race and finished 2nd in the AP class.
Title: Re: R-Model - Courtland, AL SCCA 1965? 1966?
Post by: mgreene on January 13, 2021, 08:17:05 AM
This is a pic a now deceased friend of mine took at Courtland around the same time frame. Appears to be an R-model behind the Corvette on the left side of the pic.
Title: Re: R-Model - Courtland, AL SCCA 1965? 1966?
Post by: mgreene on January 13, 2021, 08:19:04 AM
He also took this one and said it was at Courtland, but he had the pics mixed in with some he took at Sebring, so I am not sure...
Title: Re: R-Model - Courtland, AL SCCA 1965? 1966?
Post by: rockhouse66 on January 13, 2021, 08:59:02 AM
This is a pic a now deceased friend of mine took at Courtland around the same time frame. Appears to be an R-model behind the Corvette on the left side of the pic.

I would say that is definitely Courtland and probably the same race.  The R-Model has the painted sail, which would be the Hane car, and that same Porsche 904 was at this race too.
Title: Re: R-Model - Courtland, AL SCCA 1965? 1966?
Post by: rockhouse66 on January 13, 2021, 10:05:10 AM
He also took this one and said it was at Courtland, but he had the pics mixed in with some he took at Sebring, so I am not sure...

This would be the Roger West / Charlie Kemp R-Model, 5R538.  A friend of mine suggests that could be at Daytona?
Title: Re: R-Model - Courtland, AL SCCA 1965? 1966?
Post by: mgreene on January 13, 2021, 10:55:42 AM
Here are some more shots for historical perspective, but not with Shelby cars in them.
Title: Re: R-Model - Courtland, AL SCCA 1965? 1966?
Post by: mgreene on January 13, 2021, 10:56:49 AM
More...
Title: Re: R-Model - Courtland, AL SCCA 1965? 1966?
Post by: FL SAAC on January 13, 2021, 10:57:57 AM
More...

Very kool pics thanks for posting
Title: Re: R-Model - Courtland, AL SCCA 1965? 1966?
Post by: kranky on January 13, 2021, 11:39:57 AM
Your second round of photos look to be from the July 1966 races-#17 Charlie Kolb-Porsche 906 (winner), #21-George Avent-Lotus 23, #77-John Lewis-Scorpion (Troutman and Barnes Scorpion)...etc.

In agreement with rockhouse66-#18 GT350 is the Roger West 5r538 R-model at Daytona 1967, not Sebring (#18 for Sebring 1967-is the Dos Caballos Van Beuren GT350 R-model 5r108).
Title: Re: R-Model - Courtland, AL SCCA 1965? 1966?
Post by: CSX 4133 on January 13, 2021, 12:04:54 PM

The following link has a fair amount of photo's, entry lists, etc of the Courtland races in the 60's.

https://www.racingsportscars.com/track/archive/Courtland.html
Title: Re: R-Model - Courtland, AL SCCA 1965? 1966?
Post by: deathsled on January 13, 2021, 10:27:14 PM
As an aside, it is interesting to note how many people in the photos are slim and in prime physical shape compared to people of comparable age today.
Title: Re: R-Model - Courtland, AL SCCA 1965? 1966?
Post by: NC TRACKRAT on January 14, 2021, 10:21:09 AM
#18 is definitely at Daytona waiting to get to the gas pumps on the right, not visible in the picture.