I started this discussion with Dave Redman but thought that you folks would also have some relevant opinions. As I wrote to Dave, I am probably not going to get around to restoring what had been a B-Production SCCA school car (6S2021). It had been stripped down with the glass and rollcage removed in the early 80's. With the best of intentions, and many life changes later, it has become a repository of other non-moving things in my garage. It's been in the registry since the 80's and has some cute anecdotes but nothing particularly exceptional.
Hagerty Insurance has a Valuation tool that says that the Average value for a 1966 GT-350 runs $198,000 for a #2 Excellent car (and $250,000 for a concours example). Numbers like this scare me since I've hung onto these cars for what feels like just short of forever (I've owned this one since the early 70's). But just for the sake of argument, let's say that if it would take $100,000 to get the chassis into #2 condition, does that mean that my chassis could be worth $98,000 give or take?
I understand that it's only worth what someone is willing to pay for it, but what is a fair method of establishing its worth as it stands? Obviously, it's much easier for completed cars, there are more comparables. The car has significant value but I am in a quandary as to what would be a fair valuation or how to determine it. Asking the folks in the Shelby community seemed like the most reasonable starting point.
jim
Quote from: jamesfee on January 20, 2018, 11:00:49 PM
I started this discussion with Dave Redman but thought that you folks would also have some relevant opinions. As I wrote to Dave, I am probably not going to get around to restoring what had been a B-Production SCCA school car (6S2021). It had been stripped down with the glass and rollcage removed in the early 80's. With the best of intentions, and many life changes later, it has become a repository of other non-moving things in my garage. It's been in the registry since the 80's and has some cute anecdotes but nothing particularly exceptional.
Hagerty Insurance has a Valuation tool that says that the Average value for a 1966 GT-350 runs $198,000 for a #2 Excellent car (and $250,000 for a concours example). Numbers like this scare me since I've hung onto these cars for what feels like just short of forever (I've owned this one since the early 70's). But just for the sake of argument, let's say that if it would take $100,000 to get the chassis into #2 condition, does that mean that my chassis could be worth $98,000 give or take?
I understand that it's only worth what someone is willing to pay for it, but what is a fair method of establishing its worth as it stands? Obviously, it's much easier for completed cars, there are more comparables. The car has significant value but I am in a quandary as to what would be a fair valuation or how to determine it. Asking the folks in the Shelby community seemed like the most reasonable starting point.
jim
In case he dosn't read this you should reach out to Bret at Cape Cod Mustang (formally ShelbyMustang .com) he has more experience selling basket case type Shelby's then anyone I know.
Thank you, Bob.
Hagerty quotes are a bit optimistic !!!
Chris, I fully understand that. Part of the problem is that there are so few resources for our specific cars which is what led me to posting the issue here.
Jim, this is strictly my OPINION.
I think you're on the right track. If a car would take $80K in work to be worth $200K, then its current value is probably $120K – give or take a little.
If the car is anything close to presentable, a buyer might pay a little more than that with the idea in mind to simply enjoy the car as it is.
But if the car would require a restoration, then any buyer will probably subtract a little from that $120K number as compensation for their time and trouble during the restoration, and to have a little in reserve for the inevitable and expensive unknowns that always surface during that process.
Again, just my OPINION.
Steve
Steve, I appreciate your opinion on this. Yes, there is a bit of latitude (maybe a bunch) necessary due to any circumstances not in the ordinary run of things. While I quoted Hagerty's rates, my point was, would that method of calculation be a reasonable way of determining value.
jim
I think the day to day values on a really nice 66 are slightly lower than Your figures.
No offense to you 66 guys.
Buddy bought a pristine black 66, stick, no stripe SAAC concours car about 2 years ago and I keep up on values and advised him on that purchase. So I know a little.
I really depends (I know a generic statment). If you look at the current private market, 65's are worth about $300K. There are quite a few 65's that are priced at $450-$500K, but most of them don't sell. I see the 66's in two markets, the Hertz and non-Hertz. Since yours is not a Hertz car lets focus on "general sale" cars. For a restored car I've seen 66's in the $180-$200K range and ones that need a lot of help as low as $90K. Cars with their original engines will always command a higher price.
I will take a stab at the value....
A 66 shelby with the original engine and Al manual trans in non-driveable condition and all there $140-150K
A 66 Shelby with the original engine, Al manual trans in driver condition $160-$175K
Restored 66 with the original engine, Al manual trans $190-$200K
If yours needs a lot of help not original and not running but complete $100K
If yours is missing a lot of parts, rough condition and not running $90K
All this is my humble opinion and what I have seen....
non-driver for 140-150k? IDK about that. You can buy a nice driver+ all day long around 120-130k.
Just look at past auctions and car listed for sale.
Here is one at 129k
https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/shelby/gt350/1971588.html
Quote from: Ldouble619 on January 21, 2018, 09:14:37 PM
non-driver for 140-150k? IDK about that. You can buy a nice driver+ all day long around 120-130k.
Just look at past auctions and car listed for sale.
Here is one at 129k
https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/shelby/gt350/1971588.html
My evaluation is for one that is complete and original but not a driver due to it sitting for many years (this is not a basket case car, just a car that sat in someones garage). You can find cars for less $ but most are automatics or coverted to manual and very little is original. Try to find one that is all original from hood, and air cleaner to oil pan, bumper to bumper with original sheet metal. It is very, very hard and worth $140 to $150K as you would pay $15K + for just the original date coded parts.
Quote from: Greg on January 21, 2018, 08:37:47 PM
I really depends (I know a generic statment). If you look at the current private market, 65's are worth about $300K. There are quite a few 65's that are priced at $450-$500K, but most of them don't sell. I see the 66's in two markets, the Hertz and non-Hertz. Since yours is not a Hertz car lets focus on "general sale" cars. For a restored car I've seen 66's in the $180-$200K range and ones that need a lot of help as low as $90K. Cars with their original engines will always command a higher price.
I will take a stab at the value....
A 66 shelby with the original engine and Al manual trans in non-driveable condition and all there $140-150K
A 66 Shelby with the original engine, Al manual trans in driver condition $160-$175K
Restored 66 with the original engine, Al manual trans $190-$200K
If yours needs a lot of help not original and not running but complete $100K
If your is missing a lot of parts, rough condition and not running $90K
All this is my humble opinion and what I have seen....
Thanks Greg,
I tend to agree with your line of reasoning. When I started this I was looking for a rational way to bridge the gap between the sensational numbers we tend to see from the auctions and the reality of what's sitting in my garage.
I appreciate your input.
jim
Interesting line of discussion. 30+ years around these cars and I agree with the methodology that you can base the asking price on the finalized value post restoration. The problem is getting a buyer to agree to that finalized value. The market for these cars is all over the place right now, but let's take the example of an incorrect date code non-original block/transmission driver quality restoration. Right now in early 2018, that seems to be a $130-140k car at most. If you have a chassis with a good history but incorrect engine and transmission, obvious street to track to street conversion, that's probably the most you can reasonably expect the car to be worth. If the current condition of the chassis would require $50k to make it a $140k car, no investor will give you $90k for it, you're looking at offers of $60k-$75k at most, leaving an acceptable margin in the car to profit even in the event of market fluctuations.
I made the critical error of not researching deeply enough this past fall and openly contemplated selling 6S1523. Like you, the Hagerty info seemed an enticing guideline. 1523 needs less than $20k in restoration to be an excellent correct appearing driver, and the car has a papered history back to February 1967. But in this market of buyers wanting "original survivors" no matter the correctness or pedigree, buyers are fierce to the point of being insulting. One offer I received would have been a tidy 20% profit on the cars 1987 sale price, to which I politely declined. The car is currently undergoing mechanicals in my garage and if all goes well I hope to have it in the correct red with white hue next year.
Good luck, don't over estimate your car's worth, don't underestimate the potential for insulting offers.
Quote from: 6S1523 on January 23, 2018, 02:31:38 AM
Interesting line of discussion. 30+ years around these cars and I agree with the methodology that you can base the asking price on the finalized value post restoration. The problem is getting a buyer to agree to that finalized value. The market for these cars is all over the place right now, but let's take the example of an incorrect date code non-original block/transmission driver quality restoration. Right now in early 2018, that seems to be a $130-140k car at most. If you have a chassis with a good history but incorrect engine and transmission, obvious street to track to street conversion, that's probably the most you can reasonably expect the car to be worth. If the current condition of the chassis would require $50k to make it a $140k car, no investor will give you $90k for it, you're looking at offers of $60k-$75k at most, leaving an acceptable margin in the car to profit even in the event of market fluctuations.
You've really nailed it! I am very grateful for the responses here. I honestly *do* understand that this is a fluid market and that it is quite different from where/when I started. Unfortunately, my cars are a reflection of me - I have a replaced shoulder and hip, the cars have their own analog. We will never be original again but we seem to be doing OK all the same - even if I'm not "numbers matching" <g>. I am learning what those differences are "worth".
Best of luck to you on 1523!
jim
I tend to stay away from the valuation tools unless no "actual" sales results are available. I like to go to E Bay and enter a car and select "sold" search criteria to get realistic sales results. Obviously there are other better ways of getting values- its just quick and easy. In the case of 66's there's been a number listed but no actual recent sales history (probably due to the lofty asking prices).
I've seen running driving NOM 66's in 2017 with asking prices in the 90's (in Hemmings etc), contemplated buying a mostly complete but apart one needing full restoration in the 60/70k range and know of one without a motor or trans with cosmetic exterior fire damage that sold in the 20's out of New England- all in 2017. I believe Brett at Cape Cod Mustang currently has a decent driver with a "asking price" of around 140k. I'm sure many will disagree but my opinion is that someone would actually get 80-90k for one that doesn't have the original drivetrain and doesn't run or drive (less if its rusty) and take home 90-100k for a very tired one that requires full resto but isn't rusted and runs and drives well. The caveat is that we've also seen bad or good ones unexpectedly bring crazy high and very low numbers- like rolling dice. Just one mans opinion based on some actual 2017 sales :)
I tend to agree with Bigfoot that some of the numbers mentioned here sound aggressive...but I think also some might possibly be confusing carryover values with other 66 values?
My general opinion...carryovers are easily high 100s to low 200k cars right now. Really good carryovers can go in the mid 2s. Other 66s, generally hertz cars can range from 100k-145k depending on the quality of an automatic car..factory 4 speed cars are obviously much more. Automatic 66 non hertz cars are about the same or maybe a bit more than the equivalent hertz car. Factory 4 speed 66s tend to range from what I see from 140-175k for most cars.
Keep in mind, the prices i am quoting are for nicely restored cars that can also be driven. Concours cars are more and so are totally unrestored cars. The better unrestored car the higher the price. Just a lot of moving parts to consider.
I will say that the $200k assumed above would be tough to get for a late 66, even in concours spec. Before the forum went down, an early to mid production over ride traction bar car in red which was concours condition was listed at either 185k or 195k, does anyone remember? Seemed like a nice car, none of my business what it ended up bringing, but that is a good comparison to make. An earlier 66 is technically going to be better than a later one for market value (even though Ill be the first to debate how much serial number really matters unless we are talking carryovers). $200k is just a tough number to get to on a 66 other than a carryover unless the car is a truly spectacular restoration which costs lots of $$$ to do above and beyond your typical resto which itself can be very expensive.
Also, rarely does the costs of car+restoration costs= end value equation actually work. If that were true, then mathematically the end value-restoration costs= costs to buy the project car. Often times a project is worth more than this equation would imply.
Just this guy's 2 cents..
Vern
Vern, thanks for mentioning the carryovers. They do usually bring a slight premium over a full production '66 GT350. Hagerty's is now putting that premium at +35%. I'm not sure how accurate that is, but it's a reasonable starting point.
BTW, the guides like Hagerty Online Valuation Tools, and CPI (Cars of Particular Interest) seem to be on the high side to me. I know they must have some kind of tangible data to base their prices on, but their numbers don't generally match the few sales I hear about.
Steve
Quote from: Vernon Estes on January 23, 2018, 06:33:48 PM
I tend to agree with Bigfoot that some of the numbers mentioned here sound aggressive...but I think also some might possibly be confusing carryover values with other 66 values?
My general opinion...carryovers are easily high 100s to low 200k cars right now. Really good carryovers can go in the mid 2s. Other 66s, generally hertz cars can range from 100k-145k depending on the quality of an automatic car..factory 4 speed cars are obviously much more. Automatic 66 non hertz cars are about the same or maybe a bit more than the equivalent hertz car. Factory 4 speed 66s tend to range from what I see from 140-175k for most cars.
Keep in mind, the prices i am quoting are for nicely restored cars that can also be driven. Concours cars are more and so are totally unrestored cars. The better unrestored car the higher the price. Just a lot of moving parts to consider.
I will say that the $200k assumed above would be tough to get for a late 66, even in concours spec. Before the forum went down, an early to mid production over ride traction bar car in red which was concours condition was listed at either 185k or 195k, does anyone remember? Seemed like a nice car, none of my business what it ended up bringing, but that is a good comparison to make. An earlier 66 is technically going to be better than a later one for market value (even though Ill be the first to debate how much serial number really matters unless we are talking carryovers). $200k is just a tough number to get to on a 66 other than a carryover unless the car is a truly spectacular restoration which costs lots of $$$ to do above and beyond your typical resto which itself can be very expensive.
Also, rarely does the costs of car+restoration costs= end value equation actually work. If that were true, then mathematically the end value-restoration costs= costs to buy the project car. Often times a project is worth more than this equation would imply.
Just this guy's 2 cents..
Vern
I couldn't agree more, Vern. BTW - the lack sleep induced by the "Little Estes" doesn't seem to be clouding your thinking! Congrats again!
It's so hard to read the market at times, and I'm certainly no expert. However, it Hagerty values do seem extremely high on 66s right now. I also read an article in a magazine recently stating that regular 66s were worth the low $200s...and these were non-carryover cars.
I don't know what happens with private sales, but I have yet to find anything that backs the high prices that Hargerty gives for 66s.
Also, my 2 cents worth.
Quote from: Shelby_0022 on January 23, 2018, 08:06:37 PM
I couldn't agree more, Vern. BTW - the lack sleep induced by the "Little Estes" doesn't seem to be clouding your thinking! Congrats again!
Thanks dude!...yea it just depends on what day you catch me..the little stinker loves to sleep all the time...except when shes supposed to be sleep!! ;D
Quote from: Ldouble619 on January 21, 2018, 09:14:37 PM
non-driver for 140-150k? IDK about that. You can buy a nice driver+ all day long around 120-130k.
Just look at past auctions and car listed for sale.
Here is one at 129k
https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/shelby/gt350/1971588.html
This same 66 Shelby (1433) was offered for $195K in 2017 by the same dealer.
IMO right now the 66's are the best "value for money" cars because the 65's will naturally pull them up. Its not unreasonable for 66's to be priced in the $200K range as some prices that people are asking for 65's are North of $400K. I'm not saying that "non-provenance, non-original drivetrain" 65 or 66's are selling at those levels, but we witnessed the same thing in the 427 vs 289 cobra's. If the 65's are predicted to go north of $500k then the 66's will be pushed to north of $300K.
And just to confuse everyone...
I sold three 66's last year for under 95K........
Quote from: capecodmustang.com on January 25, 2018, 06:21:26 PM
And just to confuse everyone...
I sold three 66's last year for under 95K........
I bet they weren't cars that had their original, born with drive train, rust free and 4 speed cars. If they were, then someone got a smokin deal.
Quote from: capecodmustang.com on January 25, 2018, 06:21:26 PM
I sold three 66's last year for under 95K........
So your the guy pulling the averages down!!!! LOL
Meant in a fun - kidding way Sure miss the Emojis to suggest intent
Greg: Actually last year I sold (4) 66's under 95K....
Three out of the four had original engine's...
By saying someone got a "smokin deal" is really suggesting I didn't realize what I was selling....
There's very few 66's worth 175K plus in my opinion.
I own carryover's and I've owned one of the (11) factory 66 Paxton cars. (The white automatic)
I'd put 4 Speed black Hertz's in that group too.
Just my opinion's.....
Bret
Quote from: Shelby_0022 on January 23, 2018, 08:06:37 PM
Quote from: Vernon Estes on January 23, 2018, 06:33:48 PM
I tend to agree with Bigfoot that some of the numbers mentioned here sound aggressive...but I think also some might possibly be confusing carryover values with other 66 values?
My general opinion...carryovers are easily high 100s to low 200k cars right now. Really good carryovers can go in the mid 2s. Other 66s, generally hertz cars can range from 100k-145k depending on the quality of an automatic car..factory 4 speed cars are obviously much more. Automatic 66 non hertz cars are about the same or maybe a bit more than the equivalent hertz car. Factory 4 speed 66s tend to range from what I see from 140-175k for most cars.
Keep in mind, the prices i am quoting are for nicely restored cars that can also be driven. Concours cars are more and so are totally unrestored cars. The better unrestored car the higher the price. Just a lot of moving parts to consider.
I will say that the $200k assumed above would be tough to get for a late 66, even in concours spec. Before the forum went down, an early to mid production over ride traction bar car in red which was concours condition was listed at either 185k or 195k, does anyone remember? Seemed like a nice car, none of my business what it ended up bringing, but that is a good comparison to make. An earlier 66 is technically going to be better than a later one for market value (even though Ill be the first to debate how much serial number really matters unless we are talking carryovers). $200k is just a tough number to get to on a 66 other than a carryover unless the car is a truly spectacular restoration which costs lots of $$$ to do above and beyond your typical resto which itself can be very expensive.
Also, rarely does the costs of car+restoration costs= end value equation actually work. If that were true, then mathematically the end value-restoration costs= costs to buy the project car. Often times a project is worth more than this equation would imply.
Just this guy's 2 cents..
Vern
I couldn't agree more, Vern. BTW - the lack sleep induced by the "Little Estes" doesn't seem to be clouding your thinking! Congrats again!
It's so hard to read the market at times, and I'm certainly no expert. However, it Hagerty values do seem extremely high on 66s right now. I also read an article in a magazine recently stating that regular 66s were worth the low $200s...and these were non-carryover cars.
I don't know what happens with private sales, but I have yet to find anything that backs the high prices that Hargerty gives for 66s.
Also, my 2 cents worth.
Hagerty is in the business of insuring cars; they want to think it is worth a lot so you will pay more to insure it. If you told them a late 66 was worth $225 they would be happy to agree to take your premium. Classic car insurance is a low risk business with Shelby owners.
This discussion is interesting because if the Hagerty valuation is that far off and nice original 66's are being sold under $95K (which is not what I have personnally seen for nice original cars), then what are 65's truely worth....?
BTW... the 6970 mile, automatic, green, 66 shelby at Mecum just sold for $275K and the SFM1293 sold for $148,500. The 65 at Barrett Jackson sold for $325K.
Green car looked nice.
Wish it was a stick!
Yikes. Value? Well, they are worth what you can get for them on the day you go to sell it so really the significance of value is what you will get from your insurance company in the event of a total loss.
If for instance you purchase the car at BJ auction, you are going to have receipts. Receipts that you are going to show your insurance agent what it costs as a representation of value or maybe what replacement value is.
So that kind of makes all the other discussions of your tire kicker friends, dealers, brokers, etc, kind of irrelevant? You have established a MINIMUM value for THAT car and everyone else can basically go piss off.
Be careful on the wording of your policy though. Although you may think that you have an agreed value of the car, some companies will give it to their legal division and attempt to get you to agree to accept a substitute car of equal value. If they can do that, that's some trick?
Listen, they don't hire pencil neck nerds to work 24/7 for them at the risk of being deported as a penalty for settling on too much for nothing.
You are not "In good hands". More like a hand job if you don't pay attention.
You simply are going to have many people telling you that you over paid, it isn't worth that, it isn't worth more then my 69 Chevelle, Hemi Road Runner, etc. That is what is basically called hearsay evidence and means something, but probably not much.
Quote from: shelbydoug on January 27, 2018, 11:16:09 AM
Yikes. Value? Well, they are worth what you can get for them on the day you go to sell it so really the significance of value is what you will get from your insurance company in the event of a total loss.
If for instance you purchase the car at BJ auction, you are going to have receipts. Receipts that you are going to show your insurance agent what it costs as a representation of value or maybe what replacement value is.
So that kind of makes all the other discussions of your tire kicker friends, dealers, brokers, etc, kind of irrelevant? You have established a MINIMUM value for THAT car and everyone else can basically go piss off.
Be careful on the wording of your policy though. Although you may think that you have an agreed value of the car, some companies will give it to their legal division and attempt to get you to agree to accept a substitute car of equal value. If they can do that, that's some trick?
Listen, they don't hire pencil neck nerds to work 24/7 for them at the risk of being deported as a penalty for settling on too much for nothing.
You are not "In good hands". More like a hand job if you don't pay attention.
You simply are going to have many people telling you that you over paid, it isn't worth that, it isn't worth more then my 69 Chevelle, Hemi Road Runner, etc. That is what is basically called hearsay evidence and means something, but probably not much.
Great comment, your are absolutely correct!!
Quote from: Greg on January 27, 2018, 08:33:01 AM
This discussion is interesting because if the Hagerty valuation is that far off and nice original 66's are being sold under $95K (which is not what I have personnally seen for nice original cars), then what are 65's truely worth....?
BTW... the 6970 mile, automatic, green, 66 shelby at Mecum just sold for $275K and the SFM1293 sold for $148,500. The 65 at Barrett Jackson sold for $325K.
Greg,
Barrett Jackson does not "make the market", they "make their market", and nothing else. If you are uncertain of the difference, feel free to ask around. Start with Vern and Bret, as they know the real world market better than just about anyone else here these days.
Totally agree.
I have to agree with Greg on some of the auction prices...
They're hard to figure out....
But overall all they're inflated in most cases..
IMHO....
Value of someone's property is a very sensitive subject....
Chances are you'll hurt someone's pride sooner or later....
Quote from: capecodmustang.com on January 27, 2018, 03:47:06 PM
I have to agree with Greg on some of the auction prices...
They're hard to figure out....
But overall all they're inflated in most cases..
IMHO....
Value of someone's property is a very sensitive subject....
Chances are you'll hurt someone's pride sooner or later....
+1
Don't forget: Excellent past history, all original, never hit, rust-free body, with matching numbers, and/or race history, "unrestored", will demand the higher prices (many privately) than most collector car auctions. This is for 65's and 66's, in my opinion. Have you seen the Shelbys at the auctions in the last 3 years? Like, up really close, in person? And the prices they get are still very high at auction.
Quote from: 5s386 on January 28, 2018, 12:16:38 AM
Have you seen the Shelbys at the auctions in the last 3 years? Like, up really close, in person? And the prices they get are still very high at auction.
This is such a true statement. Easily, 8 out of 10 Shelbys I've personally seen at auction were in horrific shape. And, most have been well sold, given their condition. Every once in a while I'll see a nice example, but the times are few and far between.
Side note - it seems like having a "Caution Fan" sticker is a prerequisite to consigning a car at most auctions. ;D
...and CS signed glove box door so the live auction camera can zoom right up to it to boost the bids! 8)
As a 1966 GT350 owner, I follow auction sales with interest.
Ten major auction sales for 2017 to January 2018 reported sales ranging from $115,500 and $297,000 and one "no sale" high bid of $200,000. The average for these 11 cars was $178,000. For most of these cars, available information explained both the lower sales (color change, incorrect transmission, etc.) and the higher prices brought by exceptionally low mileage original cars or concours quality originals. I did not count either the $550,000 sale of 6S001 or the $742,500 paid for 6S2377; one of the four original convertibles. I also left out a private sale of a condition 3 green car for $170,000 of which I am personally aware.
Hagerty's prices do tend to run a little high but they may reflect correct or unmodified cars only and not the full range of those mentioned above. Maybe some of you can provide more information on this topic.
THANKS for the info! Real world sales are really the bottom line.
BTW, Hagerty is currently showing:
$250,000 – #1 Concours
$198,000 – #2 Excellent
$146,000 – #3 Good
$120,000 – #4 Fair
Your average of $178,000 for 11 cars slides right in there between Good and Excellent. With your high of $297,000 and low of $115,500 nicely bracketing Hagerty's upper and lower figures. Maybe Hagerty is more accurate than I thought.
Steve
When I started this thread, I was concerned with the response I would get by using Hagerty. The problem is, with a limited production vehicle like ours, there aren't *that* many examples for sale at any given point in time. Compound that problem with a wide variety of conditions in the sale units and you realize that the best you are going to get is an approximation of the market (not to mention that the market itself is subject to periodic ups and downs). While I was looking at trying to establish a "value", many of you have brought up that the nature of the auctions can obscure the concept of value. Getting people pitted against each other aggressively bidding can mask a vehicles value – though it cannot be denied that it certainly drives perceived value. The problem I see is that that pricing does not always hold up when the competitive bidding environment is removed.
That said, I am grateful to everyone who commented. Our vehicles do engender passion and that is yet another component to their selling price – or the argument about it.
At the end of the day, value should remain with good examples of the Marque, be they complete or in pieces.
everybody's opinion on quality of restoration or originality is different. I may think your car is a pile of rusted crap, you may think of it as mint. bottom line? if you can't afford it, don't ask. if for insurance, todays price will change, up or down next month. phred