SAAC Forum

The Cars => 1966 Shelby GT350/GT350H => Topic started by: 6s1640 on February 16, 2021, 03:38:20 AM

Title: Ray Brown and Impact Seat Belts used in 1966 GT350's
Post by: 6s1640 on February 16, 2021, 03:38:20 AM
Hi all,

There has been some interest in the 66 GT350 leather fobs on the seat belts.  I have talked with Denny (6S1568), selling the fobs and have the below images to share relevant to the variations of the Ray Brown and Impact seat belts.  In summary:

1)  The latch side image shows four variations, alternating between Ray Brown and Impact.  The first image on left shows a Ray Brown latch with a closed loop on the end of the latch.  The remaining three have an open loop.  I will conjecture the closed loop is the earliest version, at least for 1966.

2)  You will also notice the left two have no metal webbing, the third from left has the beginnings of a web and the far right seat belts has a full web.  This belt is fully provision for a leather fob.  This represents a transition to leather fob on loop side to the latch side.  I will conjecture this is for very late GT350's.

3)  On the loop half of the seat belt, most common with leather fob, the image showing the Ray Brown seat belt would suggest that the rougher side was also black.  I believe it is more common to see the rough side a natural color.  I do not have an image of the latch side with leather fob.  Maybe someone can post.  There also appears to be different sets of markings on the loop half, such as "O" or a Military Standard.

4)  The adjusters are very similar with the Ray Browns appearing a little beefier.

5)  The tags are shown front and back.  They are obviously different.  Both have reference to a material standard(s) to which the belt was made.

6)  There seams to be too styles of hooks.  The short I have found is consistent with Ray Brown and the long consistent with Impact.  However, this is not an absolute.  It is also possible that Ray Brown and Impact belts could have been intermixed after the cars were new by the current owner at the time to make a repair by replacing a belt half.  I have seen Ray Browns with long hooks

I believe the Ray Browns are most common in the early GT350's and the Impacts in the later cars.  The in between cars is where it gets messy, likely a mix of both manufactures.  It also seams to be typical the belt hardware was chromed, but not an absolute.  I have heard the very early 65 GT350's may have had a dull or gray finish hardware.

As part of a survey, if you care to post what your GT350 originally came with, please answer the below questions.

1) SAI VIN

2)  Latch end - (O) Open or  (C) closed

3)  Latch end - (A) No web, (B) partial web, (C) full web with holes for leather fob

4)  (R) Ray Brown or (I) Impact

5)  (S) Short or (L) long hook.

6)  (C) Chrome or (D) dull finish

So your answer might look like  6S123, 2O, 3A, 4R, 5S and 6C.  Or just spell it out.  If your belts don't match, make two listings.  Some cars came with two styles with in same manufacture and even a mix of both manufactures.

Let see what this survey gets us.  If you have question, go ahead and post.  If I made an error, straighten me out.

Hope this is useful.  Let see what else  we can learn together.

Thanks

Cory









Title: Re: Ray Brown and Impact Seat Belts used in 1966 GT350's
Post by: 6s1640 on February 16, 2021, 03:38:53 AM
Here are the labels.  The Ray Brown Spec referenced is "SAE. 34B and GSA JJ-B-185-A "
Title: Re: Ray Brown and Impact Seat Belts used in 1966 GT350's
Post by: kingchief on February 16, 2021, 09:26:20 AM
Thanks Cory...excellent work.

Steve
Title: Re: Ray Brown and Impact Seat Belts used in 1966 GT350's
Post by: chris NOS on February 16, 2021, 10:30:32 AM
nice post!  ;)
Title: Re: Ray Brown and Impact Seat Belts used in 1966 GT350's
Post by: SFM66H on February 16, 2021, 12:03:23 PM
Cory - EXCEPTIONAL work, as always! Your comparison photos with captions are The Best! Thank You for starting this much needed thread on a very interesting component that many would like clarification on. I much look forward to your survey results.

I also have discussed this with “leather pad” Denny (6S1568), and we came to the same conclusion about mid-series cars like ours, that unless one happened to be at the dealership on day one, it’s about impossible to know for sure which brand of belts a car came with when shipped from Shelby American.

I personally agree with your assessment of Ray Browns early and Impacts late. It’s where to add the word “mid” that gets difficult!

Thanks again,
Kieth
Title: Re: Ray Brown and Impact Seat Belts used in 1966 GT350's
Post by: Steve McDonald Formally known as Mcdonas on February 16, 2021, 01:14:35 PM
mine must be a "Middle car" as it has one of each
Title: Re: Ray Brown and Impact Seat Belts used in 1966 GT350's
Post by: 6s1640 on February 16, 2021, 02:19:36 PM
Hi all,

Here is a correction on one of the images with labeling.  Thanks Keith, you pass the test.  I also added images to show closed and open loop on the latch.  Hope that helps.

Cory
Title: Re: Ray Brown and Impact Seat Belts used in 1966 GT350's
Post by: 6S1568 on February 16, 2021, 03:00:09 PM
6S2344      2C, 3A, 4R, 5L, 6C
Title: Re: Ray Brown and Impact Seat Belts used in 1966 GT350's
Post by: Jbarela on February 16, 2021, 04:11:41 PM
Seller states these are from 6S2052
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1966-SHELBY-ORIGINAL-GT350-MUSTANG-SEAT-BELTS/184617522362?ul_ref=https%3A%2F%2Frover.ebay.com%2Frover%2F0%2Fe11051.m43.l1123%2F7%3Feuid%3D03713ff301e9478bb9a20bc7bcfb903c%26bu%3D43143284322%26segname%3D11051%26crd%3D20210213201107%26osub%3D-1~1%26ch%3Dosgood%26loc%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fwww.ebay.com%252Fulk%252Fitm%252F184617522362%26sojTags%3Dbu%3Dbu%2Cch%3Dch%2Csegname%3Dsegname%2Ccrd%3Dcrd%2Curl%3Dloc%2Cosub%3Dosub%26srcrot%3De11051.m43.l1123%26rvr_id%3D0%26rvr_ts%3Dacadc9aa1770a7b30a60d45afffd2419&ul_noapp=true&pageci=d58a576d-9990-478d-8349-e3f4480cf24a
Title: Re: Ray Brown and Impact Seat Belts used in 1966 GT350's
Post by: gt350hr on February 16, 2021, 04:52:46 PM
   On another post I mentioned SAI never used "Cummings and Sanders" which got me some backlash. I DO realize that Impact was made by Cummings and Sanders. My comment came from the fact that there are belts "out there" that have a LABEL that does NOT say Impact nor do they have the CS logo , BUT they do say Cummings and Sanders only. I will say these have been olive drab or dark gray and were probably government surplus. My point was simply ''that" label was not used for SAI. Later belts say Impact by American Safety . IIRC these were '67 vintage.
Title: Re: Ray Brown and Impact Seat Belts used in 1966 GT350's
Post by: J_Speegle on February 16, 2021, 05:47:06 PM

3)  On the loop half of the seat belt, most common with leather fob, the image showing the Ray Brown seat belt would suggest that the rougher side was also black.  I believe it is more common to see the rough side a natural color.  I do not have an image of the latch side with leather fob.  Maybe someone can post.  There also appears to be different sets of markings on the loop half, such as "O" or a Military Standard.


Here are a couple of pictures of the leather fobs from a set of original Ray Browns

(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/15/6-160221173444.jpeg)


A few close up of the markings (same Ray Brown set) of the markings I found on the  loop half (front "O"s and back circle inside circles) and on the hook that might help the over all details. These are originals and left unrepaired since 1973 when I first rode in the car.

(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/15/6-160221174611.jpeg)


Title: Re: Ray Brown and Impact Seat Belts used in 1966 GT350's
Post by: SFM66H on February 16, 2021, 06:31:19 PM
Hi all,

Here is a correction on one of the images with labeling.  Thanks Keith, you pass the test.  I also added images to show closed and open loop on the latch.  Hope that helps.

Cory

Thanks Cory - all good now!

Kieth
Title: Re: Ray Brown and Impact Seat Belts used in 1966 GT350's
Post by: J_Speegle on February 16, 2021, 07:39:15 PM
1) 6S1203
2)  Latch end - (C) closed
3)  Latch end - (A) No web
4)  (R) Ray Brown
5)  (L) long hook
6)  (C) Chrome
Title: Re: Ray Brown and Impact Seat Belts used in 1966 GT350's
Post by: 6S280 on February 16, 2021, 10:29:28 PM
1) 6S280
2)  Latch end - (O) Open
3)  Latch end - (B) partial web
4)  (R) Ray Brown
5)  (L) long hook
6)  (C) Chrome
Title: Re: Ray Brown and Impact Seat Belts used in 1966 GT350's
Post by: KR500 on February 17, 2021, 09:20:38 AM
1. 6S2069
2. 1 ea. Open; 1ea. Closed
3. 1 ea. A no web; 1 ea B partial web, this web is only about 1/3 the size as in the examples above.
4. Impact
5. Long
6. Chrome
Title: Re: Ray Brown and Impact Seat Belts used in 1966 GT350's
Post by: JD on February 17, 2021, 10:14:45 AM
1. 6S2069
2. 1 ea. Open; 1ea. Closed
3. 1 ea. A no web; 1 ea B partial web, this web is only about 1/3 the size as in the examples above.
4. Impact
5. Long
6. Chrome

Rod was having some problems posting images and asked that I post images of the belts in #2069.

Here is a photo of the very small webbing on the one belt and of the front and back of the label.

In the bottom photo the top belt does not have any webbing on the latch wire and closed end, the bottom belt has the extra small webbing and open end.
Title: Re: Ray Brown and Impact Seat Belts used in 1966 GT350's
Post by: SFM66H on February 17, 2021, 11:15:44 AM
1. 6S1615
2. (O) Open
3. (A) No web
4. (I) Impact
5. (L) Long
6. (C) Chrome
Title: Re: Ray Brown and Impact Seat Belts used in 1966 GT350's
Post by: march66 on February 17, 2021, 05:57:39 PM
(1) 6S299
(2) Latch end (0) open
(3) Latch end  (A) no web
                     (C) full web w/holes for Leather
(4) Ray Brown
(5) (L)  long hook
(6) Chrome
Title: Re: Ray Brown and Impact Seat Belts used in 1966 GT350's
Post by: NC TRACKRAT on February 18, 2021, 08:59:24 AM
1) 6S1467
2) C (closed)
3) A (no web)
4) R (Ray Brown)
5) L (long hook)
6) C (chrome)
Title: Re: Ray Brown and Impact Seat Belts used in 1966 GT350's
Post by: StanG on February 21, 2021, 02:40:02 AM
1) 6S1534
2) O (open)
3) C (full square web with holes for leather)
4) I (Impact)
5) L ( long hook)
6) D (dull finish)
Title: Re: Ray Brown and Impact Seat Belts used in 1966 GT350's
Post by: jk66gt350 on February 21, 2021, 09:33:41 AM
1) 6S1575
2) C (closed)
3) A (no web)
4) R (Ray Browns)
5) L (long hook)
6) C (chrome)
Title: Re: Ray Brown and Impact Seat Belts used in 1966 GT350's
Post by: Harris Speedster on February 21, 2021, 10:43:47 AM
In this picture it , * Seat Belts IMPACT 9658 B.jpg (60.77 kB, 753x600 - viewed 51 times.)

I take it that it is showing a fang type end in the circled picture, and the 2nd one displays it goes  rounds around the hook. ?
Correct?

These all seem to be for 66. correct?
What are different in the 1965 belts>
Did some not use the hook snap end that anchors the belts?

Have two 1/2 sets for 65's and 66.
maybe a one set is ac cobra., do they look the same as a 66 or a 65 if they "are"in fact different.
Unsure, been decades since I looked at them, drug them out this morning.

GREAT POST. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++

WHY doesn't somebody start a main topic which definitely include these? . All you want to know about Ray Brown and impact
Have asked the same thing about Paxtons. >> to clear up irregularities, air cleaners and all with era correct pictures. topics scattered and never a complete concise answer.

Searching information is a real bummer, when it could be all in one neat and concise spot.
Good current example>> another 600 or so views trying to find concise info>>>>http://www.saacforum.com/index.php?topic=13616.0
Not criticizing, buy hey should would be nice.
Respectfully John
Title: Re: Ray Brown and Impact Seat Belts used in 1966 GT350's
Post by: J_Speegle on February 21, 2021, 01:33:21 PM
I take it that it is showing a fang type end in the circled picture, and the 2nd one displays it goes  rounds around the hook. ?
Correct?

Guess your referring to reply #6 Bottom picture. Yes the "closed end" wraps around the end of the plate and encloses the hook while the open does not


Think we need to focus on one year at a time for clarity but it's up to the OP IMHO since it is their survey and thread

Easy enough to start a 65 thread for that matter

A large part of the challenge is so few of us bough unrestored cars or cars where the belts were not repaired or restored adding to different features, details and sometimes even labels
Title: Re: Ray Brown and Impact Seat Belts used in 1966 GT350's
Post by: Karguy on February 21, 2021, 04:51:11 PM
Unfortunately the seatbelts for 6S281 Were stolen sometime around 1971. I have recently put together all the pieces to make one good set of Ray brown belts. However, after researching 280 and 273 I believe I should have Open buckles with partial webbing instead of the closed buckles with no webbing that I currently have. If anyone has a pair of the open buckles with partial webbing they would consider selling I would greatly appreciate it!
Because I doubt that 273 will see the light of day anytime soon, I’m going to take the liberty of sharing  the seatbelt information just for research and informational purposes.

1. 6S273
2. O -open
3. B -partial web
4. R -Ray Brown
5. S -Short
6. C -Chrome
Title: Re: Ray Brown and Impact Seat Belts used in 1966 GT350's
Post by: Harris Speedster on February 22, 2021, 08:29:53 PM
J_Speegle,
So, the loop rather than fanged end, is for a ray brown, and is not for a 66 but, not to dirty and change topic, a 65?
I know it is a small detail, almost like a fanged valve cover to a trained Judge.

Karguy,
it looks like the receiver is the long one with web correct? is that early and late 66 shelby ?
Looks like the eyelet clip latch is short version too, correct ? I take it that is both early and late also for 66 shelby?

Our old buddy Jim Cowles once told me there were two different styles of anchor eyebolts> ?

I am going to sort my belts from this thread.

I hope that this topic can merge into the other topic posted herein to preserve this knowledge on
65-66 belts.
Very good job guys. Belts are in sight and very obvious in a shelby, so any mixed parts spells doom !!!!!
Respectfully
John

Title: Re: Ray Brown and Impact Seat Belts used in 1966 GT350's
Post by: J_Speegle on February 22, 2021, 09:22:18 PM
J_Speegle,
So, the loop rather than fanged end, is for a ray brown, and is not for a 66 but, not to dirty and change topic, a 65?
I know it is a small detail, almost like a fanged valve cover to a trained Judge.

We've not collected all the data nor have it been determined at this point in the process. There have been reports of both open and closed versions with the Ray Brown label in the prior posts.

Not focused on 65's at all at this time though that would be a good topic for another thread IMHO if someone wanted to start that. I'm still going through all my 66 Shelby pictures and collecting examples on this subject as well as maybe ten other subjects for other discussions
Title: Re: Ray Brown and Impact Seat Belts used in 1966 GT350's
Post by: Harris Speedster on February 23, 2021, 10:15:17 AM
J_Speegle,
Great job as I mentioned.

Key words are and >>>  you are spot on; quote>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  in the prior posts.
I have begged to get all in one post, and seal /lock it.

There are probably 15 posts talking about what we are discussing; one>> http://www.saacforum.com/index.php?topic=13616.0

I will wait to sort my belts, all I can do.
Respectfully,
John