I have recently seen a number of wanted posts for 66 gt350's, the common thread is that the people posting these wants (for the most part) are looking for a car below it's market value, in some cases less then 50% of market value.
The question is, would owners here on the saac forum sell their car for a reduce price because the buyer is on the saac forum as well?
The world is full of opportunists.
Quote from: gt350hr on July 06, 2021, 12:44:02 PM
The world is full of opportunists.
The question is would you?
Well hello friends,
funny I did post an inquiry on purchasing a 1966 GT350 yesterday. Unlike others I did put out my expectations on what I wanted and unlike others I did put my budget on the vehicle.
I did receive a private message today inquiring if I would consider a rebody and of course the answer is a firm NO.
So if anyone should know of an available vehicle please advise. Thanks to ALL IN advance:
Are you really expecting people to sell you a car that fits within your description for 80k? That's ridiculous.
I put my car on the market without any clue as to the recent rise in prices. I am building a comically large garage and by selling my 2 personal cars it took any pressure off for the build cost. Both my cars sold much faster than expected. I put a price on my Shelby that was exactly what I had in it and several folks contacted. One decided the price was good for him and he bought it. Amazing sale. I am happy and now that he has received it, he has confirmed he is happy.
https://youtu.be/NIo5eQ5dujk
Quote from: pchmotoho on July 06, 2021, 01:42:19 PM
Are you really expecting people to sell you a car that fits within your description for 80k? That's ridiculous.
Hi Mr. X,
I am not putting a price on anyone's car. I am not telling anyone to sell me their car.
All I did is put out my expectations on a car and the amount of money that I have available for that car.
Thank you
Might as well as for a 65 Competition model with extensive vintage racing history retaining all born with sheet metal and drivetrain. Willing to pay 180.
Not Earl
Quote from: pchmotoho on July 06, 2021, 01:53:29 PM
Might as well as for a 65 Competition model with extensive vintage racing history retaining all born with sheet metal and drivetrain. Willing to pay 180.
Not Earl
Hello Mr. X
Nope, I want a 1966 not a 1965
Thanks again
Best of luck with your 80k 66. Not sure why you previously called me Earl but it must be nice modifying your posts to fit your needs. I saw you previously deleted all the comments in your original WTB 66 post. Using your admin powers well I see.
Mr X
Quote from: pchmotoho on July 06, 2021, 02:13:37 PM
Best of luck with your 80k 66. Not sure why you previously called me Earl but it must be nice modifying your posts to fit your needs. I saw you previously deleted all the comments in your original WTB 66 post. Using your admin powers well I see.
Mr X
Let's address your distress:
Best of luck with your 80k 66.
thank you so much again
Not sure why you previously called me Earl but it must be nice modifying your posts to fit your needs.
Nope, I thought you where EARL
I saw you previously deleted all the comments in your original WTB 66 post. Using your admin powers well I see.
Nope, the ADMIN, controller, post remover in that sector is Mr Bill (please direct your inquiries to him) I am only responsible for the FL SAAC section and let me tell you it's free range there unless your a complete a$$hat. Then and only then your posts will be deleted
Mr X
So it is Mr X
Hey take care xoxoxo
I take offense to people that assume anyone who is asking to buy something is assuming that we want to get it under "Market Value" which cannot be further from the truth! (I am speaking for MYSELF)
One: asking for a car to be no stories, numbers matching, no major wrecks, AND NO COVER UPS! Example a carryover that I knew the history of, but the person selling it would not answer my questions My question was who restored it? I knew who clipped it when it was new, but I would have liked to talked to the place that restored it later in its life. YOU SHELBY OWNERS WOULD WANT THE SAME.
Two: You, come up with a price, it is a number that would make you happy to receive for your car. WE have a choice to pay or not pay, we have a choice to offer less, and or we have a choice to say, OK thank you, it is more than I want to pay. SIMPLE.
Three: If I say, "wanted, 66 GT350, DRIVER CONDITION, MANUAL, WHITE, RED, or BLUE. I think that means: "wanted, 66 GT350, DRIVER CONDITION, MANUAL, WHITE, RED, or BLUE." Am I right to think that? That must mean that I do not want a concourse car, I do not want a project car. This means I want a "MIDDLE OF THE ROAD" condition car. As we can look at any for sale site or auction site, middle of the road or DRIVERS are all over in price. Depending on condition, 130K up to about 200K, therein comes, it is my choice if I want to pay 130, 145, 150, 160. 165, 175, 185, 200K. No car is out of the question at any price.....IT IS A MATTER OF CHOICE.
There is more, please lets not make this hard! I should consider the person I buy a car from my new friend, not someone I feel ripped me off, or my them. Honesty it the utmost importance. Things I do not want an automatic, I have a GT350 auto already, do not want another one....(unless the price is right....for me). Color, I listed three colors and I already have a green car, in fact I have two green cars, I do not want another one. Unless you have one of the few hertz's that are manual, I am not interested.
I am going to stop now, I find that the more I type, the madder I am getting. What a HOBBY!
Pictures of my GREEN cars. Now can you see why I do not want anymore green cars???? Or automatic cars???? AND nowhere did I say 80K! Went to post 2 pictures but could not!!! As Charlie Brown would say UUGG!
Quote from: pchmotoho on July 06, 2021, 01:42:19 PM
Are you really expecting people to sell you a car that fits within your description for 80k? That's ridiculous.
Can you tell me where I said I want to pay 80K? I am not seeing that, nor expecting to pay that.
Quote from: 67 GT350 on July 06, 2021, 02:38:40 PM
Quote from: pchmotoho on July 06, 2021, 01:42:19 PM
Are you really expecting people to sell you a car that fits within your description for 80k? That's ridiculous.
Can you tell me where I said I want to pay 80K? I am not seeing that, nor expecting to pay that.
Not directed towards you. Meant for someone else.
This is all way off topic, the question is would someone here sell their gt350 for less then market value because the buyer is on the saac forum.
Popcorn
Friend was selling a 66-350 about 2- 3 years ago. Posted it here.
Sold to a supermodel.
We put a number on it and that's what sellers need to do.
......
Would he sell under market:
Probably not.
.........
As was often quoted ,..."buy it or let it pass I by.."
https://youtu.be/4ZBSGaWrEn4
Quote from: 427hunter on July 06, 2021, 03:18:01 PM
This is all way off topic, the question is would someone here sell their gt350 for less then market value because the buyer is on the saac forum.
There are circumstances where I have seen this happen. HEALTH is usually the primary cause IMPE. I have seen owner "pass" a car along to someone they feel will care for "their car" in the future. The second reason can be "the hassle" of selling a car on the open market. "Private sales" have distinct advantages for some.
"I" don't see any reason for an "automatic discount" to a SAAC member , just because, if that is what you are asking. Would I??? That my friend is the $64,000 question that I won't have to address for the 11 more years I plan to own it. If my ticket gets punched before that I don't care what is done with it (obviously).
Randy
If it's health at issue, I would drag myself to the garage and die in the driver's seat. Much like elephants have their own dying field.
White, blue, red or black with no rust or damage history? I'll tell you what I'll go 100 grand cash and take as many as there are. I'll add 20 if they're four-speed
I could imagine multiple scenarios where someone would sell something under market in the interest of a VERY quick sale.However if that number was below wholesale I can't imagine why they wouldn't engage a reputable classic car broker.........My 2 cents.
Again the question is would YOU sell below market because the buyer was on the saac forum..
Quote from: deathsled on July 06, 2021, 05:05:15 PM
If it's health at issue, I would drag myself to the garage and die in the driver's seat. Much like elephants have their own dying field.
Maybe that's what this guy (https://heavy.com/news/breonna-taylor-rental-car/) was doing???
You bring up a good point Richard - how would the price of the car be affected if you knew that the owner died in it? Or was "buried" in it? I've heard tell that some car buyers found cremains in the vehicle!
Quote from: 427hunter on July 06, 2021, 05:27:26 PM
Again the question is would YOU sell below market because the buyer was on the saac forum..
Not generally. But if it was a SAAC member in South Florida I might triple the price. ;D
Quote from: kjspeed on July 06, 2021, 05:30:33 PM
Quote from: deathsled on July 06, 2021, 05:05:15 PM
If it's health at issue, I would drag myself to the garage and die in the driver's seat. Much like elephants have their own dying field.
Maybe that's what this guy (https://heavy.com/news/breonna-taylor-rental-car/) was doing???
You bring up a good point Richard - how would the price of the car be affected if you knew that the owner died in it? Or was "buried" in it? I've heard tell that some car buyers found cremains in the vehicle!
If the owner died in his car that would be a no starter for me. He died in it for a reason. He wanted to be one with the car. Gotta respect that level of devotion so pass. There is always another one out there.
Quote from: kjspeed on July 06, 2021, 05:32:33 PM
Quote from: 427hunter on July 06, 2021, 05:27:26 PM
Again the question is would YOU sell below market because the buyer was on the saac forum..
Not generally. But if it was a SAAC member in South Florida I might triple the price. ;D
Why so mad ....not easy being green LMAO !
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1966-shelby-mustang-hertz-gt350h-7/
I had a friend who had his wish respected and had some of his cremated remains (sifted I think) poured down the carb. It was like pouring sand into the carb I was told by the pourer but that is what he wanted. I didn't hear how the engine ran after . The engine wasn't ruined but I am sure it did a number on the insides . The wife sold the car and It has a new owner now.
Quote from: FL SAAC on July 06, 2021, 05:54:52 PM
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1966-shelby-mustang-hertz-gt350h-7/
Well bought. One could always sell family members to Eli Lilly for product testing to make up the difference. I am truly a horrible person, I know. Since I am already going to hell, why hold back, right?
Quote from: 557 on July 06, 2021, 05:15:46 PM
I could imagine multiple scenarios where someone would sell something under market in the interest of a VERY quick sale.However if that number was below wholesale I can't imagine why they wouldn't engage a reputable classic car broker.........My 2 cents.
I agree with the quick sale under market
Quote from: Bob Gaines on July 06, 2021, 06:01:33 PM
I had a friend who had his wish respected and had some of his cremated remains (sifted I think) poured down the carb. It was like pouring sand into the carb I was told by the pourer but that is what he wanted. I didn't hear how the engine ran after . The engine wasn't ruined but I am sure it did a number on the insides . The wife sold the car and It has a new owner now.
I highly respect that final gesture. My hat off especially to the widow if she facilitated the ceremony.
I could see a scenario where a divorce might facilitate a quick sale or a sale below market value to be malicious and make her suffer financially. I mean why not?
Quote from: deathsled on July 06, 2021, 06:17:14 PM
I could see a scenario where a divorce might facilitate a quick sale or a sale below market value to be malicious and make her suffer financially. I mean why not?
Works both ways, if she is awarded the property she can turn around and sell it for $1
I saw this happen once, posted in the local newspapers everyone thought it was a typo but it was not
To answer your question: no (hope this makes you happy)
But having said that here are some reasons why cars are sold under market value :
You meet me, a personable, sweet, loving, kind person and fall in love with me
Death of an owner
Health
Divorce
Cash is involved
Get rid of the good or bad memories
Car is not operable
Selling to a friend
Can't wait for a higher offer
Changing circumstances in life
Being at the right place at the right time
Car missing parts
Selling to someone that will use as intended
Lastly because they wanted to.....
Quote from: kjspeed on July 06, 2021, 05:32:33 PM
Quote from: 427hunter on July 06, 2021, 05:27:26 PM
Again the question is would YOU sell below market because the buyer was on the saac forum..
Not generally. But if it was a SAAC member in South Florida I might triple the price. ;D
LOLOL
Quote from: 427hunter on July 06, 2021, 05:27:26 PM
Again the question is would YOU sell below market because the buyer was on the saac forum..
OK My 2 cents
Is market value
Ebay
BJ
Mecum
???????
Re-list-ville on ebay is not reality, so being a private guy that would just be selling my car, I probably would end up getting less than market value.
I can not think of any reason that I would sell below market value for my cars. I have instructed my wife to wait at least a year before selling anything. Also like the Godfather suggests never take the advice of the first person who offers to help her with the liquidation of any of our assets. (We also have a good guy/bad guy list for her to reference and we keep up with the values and note them on an Excel spreadsheet that my daughter and I keep updated.
There is no reason to give anything away.
John
You guy's are just slaying me....
Quote from: FL SAAC on July 06, 2021, 07:05:33 PM
To answer your question: no (hope this makes you happy)
But having said that here are some reasons why cars are sold under market value :
You meet me, a personable, sweet, loving, kind person and fall in love with me
Death of an owner
Health
Divorce
Cash is involved
Get rid of the good or bad memories
Car is not operable
Selling to a friend
Can't wait for a higher offer
Changing circumstances in life
Being at the right place at the right time
Car missing parts
Selling to someone that will use as intended
Lastly because they wanted to.....
Those all good reasons someone might sell a car under value.....but it would still sell for a lot more than $80,000!!!!!
Not sure who determines what "market value " is ?? Its what a willing, able buyer is ready to hand you in cash. Not what some auction house, dealer , or Ebay says. No two cars are exactly alike or have an exact history that might make it more or less valuable to a given buyer. JMHO
Quote from: corbins on July 07, 2021, 07:24:59 AM
Not sure who determines what "market value " is ?? Its what a willing, able buyer is ready to hand you in cash. Not what some auction house, dealer , or Ebay says. No two cars are exactly alike or have an exact history that might make it more or less valuable to a given buyer. JMHO
It's what the seller says it is. If you don't like the price, go find another one.
Remember the "barn find" CSX32oo Cobra? It went for over a million at auction. Who is going to sell at less then auction price?
Sure, beat me, kick me, degrade me, just give me the money pal. It's not me that's weeping, it's you smart ass.
Quote from: shelbydoug on July 07, 2021, 07:44:26 AM
Quote from: corbins on July 07, 2021, 07:24:59 AM
Not sure who determines what "market value " is ?? Its what a willing, able buyer is ready to hand you in cash. Not what some auction house, dealer , or Ebay says. No two cars are exactly alike or have an exact history that might make it more or less valuable to a given buyer. JMHO
It's what the seller says it is. If you don't like the price, go find another one.
Remember the "barn find" CSX32oo Cobra? It went for over a million at auction. Who is going to sell at less then auction price?
Sure, beat me, kick me, degrade me, just give me the money pal. It's not me that's weeping, it's you smart ass.
If it is what the seller says it is, no wonder ebay has sooooo many cars that do not sell. I have said this many times. If you want to do the auction gig, "List it for $1.00 starting bid with no reserve, what it sells for is market value." OR "List it with a 10 million reserve, open the bid at $1.00, it will not sell and you can see what the market value is on your car at that particular time."
Quote from: 67 GT350 on July 07, 2021, 08:05:00 AM
Quote from: shelbydoug on July 07, 2021, 07:44:26 AM
Quote from: corbins on July 07, 2021, 07:24:59 AM
Not sure who determines what "market value " is ?? Its what a willing, able buyer is ready to hand you in cash. Not what some auction house, dealer , or Ebay says. No two cars are exactly alike or have an exact history that might make it more or less valuable to a given buyer. JMHO
It's what the seller says it is. If you don't like the price, go find another one.
Remember the "barn find" CSX32oo Cobra? It went for over a million at auction. Who is going to sell at less then auction price?
Sure, beat me, kick me, degrade me, just give me the money pal. It's not me that's weeping, it's you smart ass.
If it is what the seller says it is, no wonder ebay has sooooo many cars that do not sell. I have said this many times. If you want to do the auction gig, "List it for $1.00 starting bid with no reserve, what it sells for is market value." OR "List it with a 10 million reserve, open the bid at $1.00, it will not sell and you can see what the market value is on your car at that particular time."
ALL of YOUR arguments are just camouflage and distraction. You are using the wrong data.
Wherever that car is for sale, however it is for sale, if you want it YOU need to pay enough for the seller to let it go. PERIOD.
The Universe is full of possibilities. Yet we as mortals need to deal with probabilities.
Call probabilities the likeliness for success if you choose, that's just semantics.
The LIKELINESS of you being successful of buying the car with the characteristics that you listed for $80,000 when the seller is asking $150,000, is very low to the extent of it being non-existent.
EVEN the poor wretched soul, who set herself on fire in suicide over it, who had the doctor's Daytonna Coupe, got $2.5 million for it and she had absolutely no idea what it was. Is this who Tony is looking to find and being generous at offering $80?
WHAT A TOTAL EMBARRASSMENT TO EVERYONE INVOLVED FOR A KNOWLEDGEABLE PERSON TO POST THAT WANTED AD HERE OF ALL PLACES! But then time and time again his posts PROVE who he is. That's for all to see. I'm not getting into that again.
It is true that there is someone who will beat the odds and win the big Power Ball but I haven't seen any "Shelby's" available in that kind of a sale and for only a buck too.
Is it presumptuous of me to presume that is what you are willing to pay. Absolutely but the general suggestion in this "discussion" is that a number around $80,000 is it.
IF you actually find "your car" I WILL bet VERY HEAVILY that you paid much closer to "market" (or going rate) then you did to $80k.
My GUESS, which is worth a pile of beans to Navy credits, is that it is around $125,000.
Not that anyone cares what I think, but I would define "market value" as the general PERCEIVED value.
Now not to change the subject but the current Cobra buyer (originals not continuation cars) is that the higher the sale prices go, the better the investment is.
There is definitely at least a trickle down effect on other "genuine Shelby cars", but the that thinking is not lost on a '66 GT350.
No arguments here just an open discussion.
Hey did everyone hear that the president of Haiti got massacred ? Talk about turmoil
Quote from: shelbydoug on July 07, 2021, 09:07:15 AM
Quote from: 67 GT350 on July 07, 2021, 08:05:00 AM
Quote from: shelbydoug on July 07, 2021, 07:44:26 AM
Quote from: corbins on July 07, 2021, 07:24:59 AM
Not sure who determines what "market value " is ?? Its what a willing, able buyer is ready to hand you in cash. Not what some auction house, dealer , or Ebay says. No two cars are exactly alike or have an exact history that might make it more or less valuable to a given buyer. JMHO
It's what the seller says it is. If you don't like the price, go find another one.
Remember the "barn find" CSX32oo Cobra? It went for over a million at auction. Who is going to sell at less then auction price?
Sure, beat me, kick me, degrade me, just give me the money pal. It's not me that's weeping, it's you smart ass.
If it is what the seller says it is, no wonder ebay has sooooo many cars that do not sell. I have said this many times. If you want to do the auction gig, "List it for $1.00 starting bid with no reserve, what it sells for is market value." OR "List it with a 10 million reserve, open the bid at $1.00, it will not sell and you can see what the market value is on your car at that particular time."
ALL of YOUR arguments are just camouflage and distraction. You are using the wrong data.
Wherever that car is for sale, however it is for sale, if you want it YOU need to pay enough for the seller to let it go. PERIOD.
The Universe is full of possibilities. Yet we as mortals need to deal with probabilities.
Call probabilities the likeliness for success if you choose, that's just semantics.
The LIKELINESS of you being successful of buying the car with the characteristics that you listed for $80,000 when the seller is asking $150,000, is very low to the extent of it being non-existent.
EVEN the poor wretched soul, who set herself on fire in suicide over it, who had the doctor's Daytonna Coupe, got $2.5 million for it and she had absolutely no idea what it was. Is this who Tony is looking to find and being generous at offering $80?
WHAT A TOTAL EMBARRASSMENT TO EVERYONE INVOLVED FOR A KNOWLEDGEABLE PERSON TO POST THAT WANTED AD HERE OF ALL PLACES! But then time and time again his posts PROVE who he is. That's for all to see. I'm not getting into that again.
It is true that there is someone who will beat the odds and win the big Power Ball but I haven't seen any "Shelby's" available in that kind of a sale and for only a buck too.
Is it presumptuous of me to presume that is what you are willing to pay. Absolutely but the general suggestion in this "discussion" is that a number around $80,000 is it.
IF you actually find "your car" I WILL be VERY HEAVILY that you paid much closer to "market" (or going rate) then you did to $80k.
My GUESS, which is worth a pile of beans to Navy credits, is that it is around $125,000.
Now not to change the subject but the current Cobra buyer (originals not continuation cars) is that the higher the sale prices go, the better the investment is.
There is definitely at least a trickle down effect on other "genuine Shelby cars", but the that thinking is not lost on a '66 GT350.
Quote from: FL SAAC on July 07, 2021, 09:11:26 AM
No arguments here just an open discussion.
Hey did everyone hear that the president of Haiti got massacred ? Talk about turmoil
Quote from: shelbydoug on July 07, 2021, 09:07:15 AM
Quote from: 67 GT350 on July 07, 2021, 08:05:00 AM
Quote from: shelbydoug on July 07, 2021, 07:44:26 AM
Quote from: corbins on July 07, 2021, 07:24:59 AM
Not sure who determines what "market value " is ?? Its what a willing, able buyer is ready to hand you in cash. Not what some auction house, dealer , or Ebay says. No two cars are exactly alike or have an exact history that might make it more or less valuable to a given buyer. JMHO
It's what the seller says it is. If you don't like the price, go find another one.
Remember the "barn find" CSX32oo Cobra? It went for over a million at auction. Who is going to sell at less then auction price?
Sure, beat me, kick me, degrade me, just give me the money pal. It's not me that's weeping, it's you smart ass.
If it is what the seller says it is, no wonder ebay has sooooo many cars that do not sell. I have said this many times. If you want to do the auction gig, "List it for $1.00 starting bid with no reserve, what it sells for is market value." OR "List it with a 10 million reserve, open the bid at $1.00, it will not sell and you can see what the market value is on your car at that particular time."
ALL of YOUR arguments are just camouflage and distraction. You are using the wrong data.
Wherever that car is for sale, however it is for sale, if you want it YOU need to pay enough for the seller to let it go. PERIOD.
The Universe is full of possibilities. Yet we as mortals need to deal with probabilities.
Call probabilities the likeliness for success if you choose, that's just semantics.
The LIKELINESS of you being successful of buying the car with the characteristics that you listed for $80,000 when the seller is asking $150,000, is very low to the extent of it being non-existent.
EVEN the poor wretched soul, who set herself on fire in suicide over it, who had the doctor's Daytonna Coupe, got $2.5 million for it and she had absolutely no idea what it was. Is this who Tony is looking to find and being generous at offering $80?
WHAT A TOTAL EMBARRASSMENT TO EVERYONE INVOLVED FOR A KNOWLEDGEABLE PERSON TO POST THAT WANTED AD HERE OF ALL PLACES! But then time and time again his posts PROVE who he is. That's for all to see. I'm not getting into that again.
It is true that there is someone who will beat the odds and win the big Power Ball but I haven't seen any "Shelby's" available in that kind of a sale and for only a buck too.
Is it presumptuous of me to presume that is what you are willing to pay. Absolutely but the general suggestion in this "discussion" is that a number around $80,000 is it.
IF you actually find "your car" I WILL be VERY HEAVILY that you paid much closer to "market" (or going rate) then you did to $80k.
My GUESS, which is worth a pile of beans to Navy credits, is that it is around $125,000.
Now not to change the subject but the current Cobra buyer (originals not continuation cars) is that the higher the sale prices go, the better the investment is.
There is definitely at least a trickle down effect on other "genuine Shelby cars", but the that thinking is not lost on a '66 GT350.
In the spoken English vernacular, defense of one's position or actions is called an "argument".
Some were defending their actions and thus they are arguments.
Haiti? That's where your from? Explains a lot.
Good morning Papa Doc Shelbydoug,
We see you are in command of a English dictionary
Please read slowly and absorb:
Arguments and discussion both are the noun which involves people talking with one another and telling what they think, feel or know to be true. Argument generally means an angry disputes or disagreement whereas discussion has much more positive fell to it.
So remember argument = angry (YOU) discussion = positive (ME)
No I am not Haitian but have many Haitian friends here in the states and on the island. The tragic assassination of President Jovenal will be felt all over the USA with a major hiatus of its citizens.
Papa Doc Shelbydoug I see you still have not been snt to sensitivity trained
Quote from: shelbydoug on July 07, 2021, 09:34:32 AM
Quote from: FL SAAC on July 07, 2021, 09:11:26 AM
No arguments here just an open discussion.
Hey did everyone hear that the president of Haiti got massacred ? Talk about turmoil
Quote from: shelbydoug on July 07, 2021, 09:07:15 AM
Quote from: 67 GT350 on July 07, 2021, 08:05:00 AM
Quote from: shelbydoug on July 07, 2021, 07:44:26 AM
Quote from: corbins on July 07, 2021, 07:24:59 AM
Not sure who determines what "market value " is ?? Its what a willing, able buyer is ready to hand you in cash. Not what some auction house, dealer , or Ebay says. No two cars are exactly alike or have an exact history that might make it more or less valuable to a given buyer. JMHO
It's what the seller says it is. If you don't like the price, go find another one.
Remember the "barn find" CSX32oo Cobra? It went for over a million at auction. Who is going to sell at less then auction price?
Sure, beat me, kick me, degrade me, just give me the money pal. It's not me that's weeping, it's you smart ass.
If it is what the seller says it is, no wonder ebay has sooooo many cars that do not sell. I have said this many times. If you want to do the auction gig, "List it for $1.00 starting bid with no reserve, what it sells for is market value." OR "List it with a 10 million reserve, open the bid at $1.00, it will not sell and you can see what the market value is on your car at that particular time."
ALL of YOUR arguments are just camouflage and distraction. You are using the wrong data.
Wherever that car is for sale, however it is for sale, if you want it YOU need to pay enough for the seller to let it go. PERIOD.
The Universe is full of possibilities. Yet we as mortals need to deal with probabilities.
Call probabilities the likeliness for success if you choose, that's just semantics.
The LIKELINESS of you being successful of buying the car with the characteristics that you listed for $80,000 when the seller is asking $150,000, is very low to the extent of it being non-existent.
EVEN the poor wretched soul, who set herself on fire in suicide over it, who had the doctor's Daytonna Coupe, got $2.5 million for it and she had absolutely no idea what it was. Is this who Tony is looking to find and being generous at offering $80?
WHAT A TOTAL EMBARRASSMENT TO EVERYONE INVOLVED FOR A KNOWLEDGEABLE PERSON TO POST THAT WANTED AD HERE OF ALL PLACES! But then time and time again his posts PROVE who he is. That's for all to see. I'm not getting into that again.
It is true that there is someone who will beat the odds and win the big Power Ball but I haven't seen any "Shelby's" available in that kind of a sale and for only a buck too.
Is it presumptuous of me to presume that is what you are willing to pay. Absolutely but the general suggestion in this "discussion" is that a number around $80,000 is it.
IF you actually find "your car" I WILL be VERY HEAVILY that you paid much closer to "market" (or going rate) then you did to $80k.
My GUESS, which is worth a pile of beans to Navy credits, is that it is around $125,000.
Now not to change the subject but the current Cobra buyer (originals not continuation cars) is that the higher the sale prices go, the better the investment is.
There is definitely at least a trickle down effect on other "genuine Shelby cars", but the that thinking is not lost on a '66 GT350.
In the spoken English vernacular, defense of one's position or actions is called an "argument".
Some were defending their actions and thus they are arguments.
Haiti? That's where your from? Explains a lot.
I just got back from the 7th dimension and saw that Carroll Shelby is President of the United States and there is a Shelby Mustang in everyone's driveway plus if you don't burn petrol you are accused of contributing to global warming because in the seventh dimension the combustion engine actually stops global warming.
Going back to the question in the original post, my answer is a simple NO.
Quote from: FL SAAC on July 07, 2021, 09:51:00 AM
Good morning Papa Doc Shelbydoug,
We see you are in command of a English dictionary
Please read slowly and absorb:
Arguments and discussion both are the noun which involves people talking with one another and telling what they think, feel or know to be true. Argument generally means an angry disputes or disagreement whereas discussion has much more positive fell to it.
So remember argument = angry (YOU) discussion = positive (ME)
No I am not Haitian but have many Haitian friends here in the states and on the island. The tragic assassination of President Jovenal will be felt all over the USA with a major hiatus of its citizens.
Papa Doc Shelbydoug I see you still have not been snt to sensitivity trained
Quote from: shelbydoug on July 07, 2021, 09:34:32 AM
Quote from: FL SAAC on July 07, 2021, 09:11:26 AM
No arguments here just an open discussion.
Hey did everyone hear that the president of Haiti got massacred ? Talk about turmoil
Quote from: shelbydoug on July 07, 2021, 09:07:15 AM
Quote from: 67 GT350 on July 07, 2021, 08:05:00 AM
Quote from: shelbydoug on July 07, 2021, 07:44:26 AM
Quote from: corbins on July 07, 2021, 07:24:59 AM
Not sure who determines what "market value " is ?? Its what a willing, able buyer is ready to hand you in cash. Not what some auction house, dealer , or Ebay says. No two cars are exactly alike or have an exact history that might make it more or less valuable to a given buyer. JMHO
It's what the seller says it is. If you don't like the price, go find another one.
Remember the "barn find" CSX32oo Cobra? It went for over a million at auction. Who is going to sell at less then auction price?
Sure, beat me, kick me, degrade me, just give me the money pal. It's not me that's weeping, it's you smart ass.
If it is what the seller says it is, no wonder ebay has sooooo many cars that do not sell. I have said this many times. If you want to do the auction gig, "List it for $1.00 starting bid with no reserve, what it sells for is market value." OR "List it with a 10 million reserve, open the bid at $1.00, it will not sell and you can see what the market value is on your car at that particular time."
ALL of YOUR arguments are just camouflage and distraction. You are using the wrong data.
Wherever that car is for sale, however it is for sale, if you want it YOU need to pay enough for the seller to let it go. PERIOD.
The Universe is full of possibilities. Yet we as mortals need to deal with probabilities.
Call probabilities the likeliness for success if you choose, that's just semantics.
The LIKELINESS of you being successful of buying the car with the characteristics that you listed for $80,000 when the seller is asking $150,000, is very low to the extent of it being non-existent.
EVEN the poor wretched soul, who set herself on fire in suicide over it, who had the doctor's Daytonna Coupe, got $2.5 million for it and she had absolutely no idea what it was. Is this who Tony is looking to find and being generous at offering $80?
WHAT A TOTAL EMBARRASSMENT TO EVERYONE INVOLVED FOR A KNOWLEDGEABLE PERSON TO POST THAT WANTED AD HERE OF ALL PLACES! But then time and time again his posts PROVE who he is. That's for all to see. I'm not getting into that again.
It is true that there is someone who will beat the odds and win the big Power Ball but I haven't seen any "Shelby's" available in that kind of a sale and for only a buck too.
Is it presumptuous of me to presume that is what you are willing to pay. Absolutely but the general suggestion in this "discussion" is that a number around $80,000 is it.
IF you actually find "your car" I WILL be VERY HEAVILY that you paid much closer to "market" (or going rate) then you did to $80k.
My GUESS, which is worth a pile of beans to Navy credits, is that it is around $125,000.
Now not to change the subject but the current Cobra buyer (originals not continuation cars) is that the higher the sale prices go, the better the investment is.
There is definitely at least a trickle down effect on other "genuine Shelby cars", but the that thinking is not lost on a '66 GT350.
In the spoken English vernacular, defense of one's position or actions is called an "argument".
Some were defending their actions and thus they are arguments.
Haiti? That's where your from? Explains a lot.
Look A hole. This is more a reflection on SAAC that they infact commissioned a piece of mouse dung like you to be any kind of a moderator or even permit a troll like you to continue to post.
That's a shame and shows how the mighty have fallen.
If you want to debate, go back to your hole in the wall and do cave drawings with your own feces since you and only you are going to appreciate anything your rodent mind can conceive of.
This is just another example of how this forum is completely without moderation and fails to respond to the slightest requests and concerns of it's positive members.
You hurry along now with your beach combing metal detector and see if you can find your Shelby buried in the sand so you can dance in celebration at your own brilliance. As for me, responding to you anymore simply isn't worth wasting another 5 minutes of the rest of my life on it.
What goes around, comes around. You'll get your just reward.
Quote from: deathsled on July 07, 2021, 10:25:21 AM
I just got back from the 7th dimension and saw that Carroll Shelby is President of the United States and there is a Shelby Mustang in everyone's driveway plus if you don't burn petrol you are accused of contributing to global warming because in the seventh dimension the combustion engine actually stops global warming.
Perhaps I should post my April 1st "Free" Shelby wanted ad from the old saacforum 1.0 :D
I recently posted a real wanted ad, found what I was looking for, and I can assure you, I am happily paying the seller for it, as I'm not getting any younger. he is happy, I'll be happy once I have the car in my garage, why anything else matters in regards to this equation, I'll never know.
Bill
OK To answer the original question.
YES AND NO
I might sell my car under market value if I want to buy another car and need the money.
I might not if it is just too low. (Its my opinion)
I might if I have had it for sale for a long period of time.
It is so sad how some can be so nasty to others on here...I think what this is all about is Some Shelby owners have bought their cars cheap, like back in the 70's like I did. Therefore we have had lots of fun with them, thus we might be more willing to sell a car faster without hassle for less. Other's bought when all the hype and value came out, they might and I say might be defending what they paid and therefore get upset with the loss of any, ANY, value.
Moderators don't suppress free speech only abusive or explicit language.
And you sir do not follow directions well:
Arguments and discussion both are the noun which involves people talking with one another and telling what they think, feel or know to be true. Argument generally means an angry disputes or disagreement whereas discussion has much more positive fell to it.
So remember argument = angry (YOU) discussion = positive (ME)
Let's keep this positive and get back on topic, I already answered the question. Now it's your turn would you sell uour car for less than market value ?
Quote from: shelbydoug on July 07, 2021, 10:46:49 AM
Quote from: FL SAAC on July 07, 2021, 09:51:00 AM
Good morning Papa Doc Shelbydoug,
We see you are in command of a English dictionary
Please read slowly and absorb:
Arguments and discussion both are the noun which involves people talking with one another and telling what they think, feel or know to be true. Argument generally means an angry disputes or disagreement whereas discussion has much more positive fell to it.
So remember argument = angry (YOU) discussion = positive (ME)
No I am not Haitian but have many Haitian friends here in the states and on the island. The tragic assassination of President Jovenal will be felt all over the USA with a major hiatus of its citizens.
Papa Doc Shelbydoug I see you still have not been snt to sensitivity trained
Quote from: shelbydoug on July 07, 2021, 09:34:32 AM
Quote from: FL SAAC on July 07, 2021, 09:11:26 AM
No arguments here just an open discussion.
Hey did everyone hear that the president of Haiti got massacred ? Talk about turmoil
Quote from: shelbydoug on July 07, 2021, 09:07:15 AM
Quote from: 67 GT350 on July 07, 2021, 08:05:00 AM
Quote from: shelbydoug on July 07, 2021, 07:44:26 AM
Quote from: corbins on July 07, 2021, 07:24:59 AM
Not sure who determines what "market value " is ?? Its what a willing, able buyer is ready to hand you in cash. Not what some auction house, dealer , or Ebay says. No two cars are exactly alike or have an exact history that might make it more or less valuable to a given buyer. JMHO
It's what the seller says it is. If you don't like the price, go find another one.
Remember the "barn find" CSX32oo Cobra? It went for over a million at auction. Who is going to sell at less then auction price?
Sure, beat me, kick me, degrade me, just give me the money pal. It's not me that's weeping, it's you smart ass.
If it is what the seller says it is, no wonder ebay has sooooo many cars that do not sell. I have said this many times. If you want to do the auction gig, "List it for $1.00 starting bid with no reserve, what it sells for is market value." OR "List it with a 10 million reserve, open the bid at $1.00, it will not sell and you can see what the market value is on your car at that particular time."
ALL of YOUR arguments are just camouflage and distraction. You are using the wrong data.
Wherever that car is for sale, however it is for sale, if you want it YOU need to pay enough for the seller to let it go. PERIOD.
The Universe is full of possibilities. Yet we as mortals need to deal with probabilities.
Call probabilities the likeliness for success if you choose, that's just semantics.
The LIKELINESS of you being successful of buying the car with the characteristics that you listed for $80,000 when the seller is asking $150,000, is very low to the extent of it being non-existent.
EVEN the poor wretched soul, who set herself on fire in suicide over it, who had the doctor's Daytonna Coupe, got $2.5 million for it and she had absolutely no idea what it was. Is this who Tony is looking to find and being generous at offering $80?
WHAT A TOTAL EMBARRASSMENT TO EVERYONE INVOLVED FOR A KNOWLEDGEABLE PERSON TO POST THAT WANTED AD HERE OF ALL PLACES! But then time and time again his posts PROVE who he is. That's for all to see. I'm not getting into that again.
It is true that there is someone who will beat the odds and win the big Power Ball but I haven't seen any "Shelby's" available in that kind of a sale and for only a buck too.
Is it presumptuous of me to presume that is what you are willing to pay. Absolutely but the general suggestion in this "discussion" is that a number around $80,000 is it.
IF you actually find "your car" I WILL be VERY HEAVILY that you paid much closer to "market" (or going rate) then you did to $80k.
My GUESS, which is worth a pile of beans to Navy credits, is that it is around $125,000.
Now not to change the subject but the current Cobra buyer (originals not continuation cars) is that the higher the sale prices go, the better the investment is.
There is definitely at least a trickle down effect on other "genuine Shelby cars", but the that thinking is not lost on a '66 GT350.
In the spoken English vernacular, defense of one's position or actions is called an "argument".
Some were defending their actions and thus they are arguments.
Haiti? That's where your from? Explains a lot.
Look A hole. This is more a reflection on SAAC that they infact commissioned a piece of mouse dung like you to be any kind of a moderator or even permit a troll like you to continue to post.
That's a shame and shows how the mighty have fallen.
If you want to debate, go back to your hole in the wall and do cave drawings with your own feces since you and only you are going to appreciate anything your rodent mind can conceive of.
This is just another example of how this forum is completely without moderation and fails to respond to the slightest requests and concerns of it's positive members.
You hurry along now with your beach coming metal detector and see if you can find your Shelby buried in the sand so you can dance in celebration at your own brilliance. As for me, responding to you anymore simply isn't worth wasting another 5 minutes of the rest of my life on it.
What goes around, comes around. You'll get your just reward.
Bill
Felicitations and congratulations on your acquisition!).
Much love !
Quote from: Bill on July 07, 2021, 10:54:03 AM
Quote from: deathsled on July 07, 2021, 10:25:21 AM
I just got back from the 7th dimension and saw that Carroll Shelby is President of the United States and there is a Shelby Mustang in everyone's driveway plus if you don't burn petrol you are accused of contributing to global warming because in the seventh dimension the combustion engine actually stops global warming.
Perhaps I should post my April 1st "Free" Shelby wanted ad from the old saacforum 1.0 :D
I recently posted a real wanted ad, found what I was looking for, and I can assure you, I am happily paying the seller for it, as I'm not getting any younger. he is happy, I'll be happy once I have the car in my garage, why anything else matters in regards to this equation, I'll never know.
Bill
You Sir are a wise man and a great response !
Quote from: 67 GT350 on July 07, 2021, 11:00:15 AM
OK To answer the original question.
YES AND NO
I might sell my car under market value if I want to buy another car and need the money.
I might not if it is just too low. (Its my opinion)
I might if I have had it for sale for a long period of time.
It is so sad how some can be so nasty to others on here...I think what this is all about is Some Shelby owners have bought their cars cheap, like back in the 70's like I did. Therefore we have had lots of fun with them, thus we might be more willing to sell a car faster without hassle for less. Other's bought when all the hype and value came out, they might and I say might be defending what they paid and therefore get upset with the loss of any, ANY, value.
Boom! Youtube just fed this one to me while listening to other Vinwiki stories. Right on point!
"How to make a lowball offer a seller will accept."
https://youtu.be/Rh7m90X6jojU
Listening to it now.
Well,I did recently pick up a nice 67 gt500 for $6k.....Of course that depends on your def. of "recently ".The year was 1982 and.................. ;D ;)
Quote from: 557 on July 07, 2021, 11:37:05 AM
Well,I did recently pick up a nice 67 gt500 for $6k.....Of course that depends on your def. of "recently ".The year was 1982 and.................. ;D ;)
That is great! I got my "recently" (same year you did) for 2500 offf the original owner, original paint! I do not have it today, but I traded it for another GT350.
I would like to get a fair price for my car when I sell it. Would I discount it to a SAAC member...depends on the time and circumstances. We all know the value of the cars...low$$ to mega$$. The value of a car is what both the seller and buyer agree to at one point in time; the beauty of an open market. Some are looking for complete numbers matching, others want something they can enjoy. At the end of the day a solid driver that drives well and presents well does it for me. If I had the means...a really nice carryover would be my ideal ride. As it is, I'm lucky to have a nice driver later production 66.
GentleMEN ,
PLEASE take you personal bashing to PM's and duke it out there away from the public eye.
Quote from: SFM6S on July 07, 2021, 12:26:46 PM
I would like to get a fair price for my car when I sell it. Would I discount it to a SAAC member...depends on the time and circumstances. We all know the value of the cars...low$$ to mega$$. The value of a car is what both the seller and buyer agree to at one point in time; the beauty of an open market. Some are looking for complete numbers matching, others want something they can enjoy. At the end of the day a solid driver that drives well and presents well does it for me. If I had the means...a really nice carryover would be my ideal ride. As it is, I'm lucky to have a nice driver later production 66.
That was PERFECT!! 100 Percent!
No need to overthink this. Should be relatively easy to find owners willing to sell their gt350 well below current market value. Only need these three things:
1.) DeLorean
2.) 1.21 gigawatt power supply
3.) Flux capacitor
Quote from: 557 on July 07, 2021, 11:37:05 AM
Well,I did recently pick up a nice 67 gt500 for $6k.....Of course that depends on your def. of "recently ".The year was 1982 and.................. ;D ;)
Did you say 1982
What happened in 1982 Major News Stories include Michael Jackson releases Thriller Album, First CD player sold in Japan, Dutch Elm Disease destorys millions of Elm Trees, Tylenol capsules laced with potassium cyanide kill 7 in Chicago, Times man of The Year is THE COMPUTER, Disney Futuristic Park EPCOT opens, Recession starts in the United States, The Mary Rose, flagship of Henry VIII raised in the Solent. New technology continues to change our buying habits with smaller and cheaper electronic gadgets appearing including and a new industry is just beginning with the use of Genetic Engineering human insulin produced by bacteria is sold for the first time. On the world stage Argentina invades the Falkland Islands and Argentina and the UK go to war over a small island thousands of miles away. After many reports of Whales becoming and endangered species the International Whaling Commission decides to end commercial whaling, and a major recession hits the United States.
The Whales story reminds me of the time....
The collector car market is like any other investment market, it will go up and it will go down. There was a day when $80,000 was top dollar for a pristine numbers matching '66 Shelby. That day may come again, possibly sooner than you think. I would consider the Shelby market to be quite small for a couple reasons, a) the number of cars available, b) the limited number of buyers (baby boomers and Gen X'ers are primary buyers), c) and the small number of buyers who can actually afford to make a substantial purchase on an old car. When this small group of buyers is gone one day, this collector car market will dwindle and anyone invested in a collector car may be willing to take whatever they can get for it.
Stop crucifying a guy because he put a dollar amount on what he has to spend. If he can't locate a car for his set budget, he will likely realize he may have to up his ante if he wants to continue his hunt for a 66 Shelby. If you feel your car doesn't fit his criteria, just keep scrolling past his want ad until you find the right buyer for your car. Opportunities arise every day, with the right time and right place he may find what he is looking for.
This is petty nonsense. Leave it be and instead discuss the correct finish on your original parts and the correct methods of restoring these cars!! Isn't that what this site is supposed to be for?!
That's my 2 cents!!
I still like the idea of selling a family member to a drug manufacturer to make up the difference. I mean c'mon man, it's for a Shelby...
Quote from: George Schalk on July 07, 2021, 02:32:24 PM
The collector car market is like any other investment market, it will go up and it will go down. There was a day when $80,000 was top dollar for a pristine numbers matching '66 Shelby. That day may come again, possibly sooner than you think. I would consider the Shelby market to be quite small for a couple reasons, a) the number of cars available, b) the limited number of buyers (baby boomers and Gen X'ers are primary buyers), c) and the small number of buyers who can actually afford to make a substantial purchase on an old car. When this small group of buyers is gone one day, this collector car market will dwindle and anyone invested in a collector car may be willing to take whatever they can get for it.
Stop crucifying a guy because he put a dollar amount on what he has to spend. If he can't locate a car for his set budget, he will likely realize he may have to up his ante if he wants to continue his hunt for a 66 Shelby. If you feel your car doesn't fit his criteria, just keep scrolling past his want ad until you find the right buyer for your car. Opportunities arise every day, with the right time and right place he may find what he is looking for.
This is petty nonsense. Leave it be and instead discuss the correct finish on your original parts and the correct methods of restoring these cars!! Isn't that what this site is supposed to be for?!
That's my 2 cents!!
A+
+ 2
Quote from: George Schalk on July 07, 2021, 02:32:24 PM
The collector car market is like any other investment market, it will go up and it will go down. There was a day when $80,000 was top dollar for a pristine numbers matching '66 Shelby. That day may come again, possibly sooner than you think. I would consider the Shelby market to be quite small for a couple reasons, a) the number of cars available, b) the limited number of buyers (baby boomers and Gen X'ers are primary buyers), c) and the small number of buyers who can actually afford to make a substantial purchase on an old car. When this small group of buyers is gone one day, this collector car market will dwindle and anyone invested in a collector car may be willing to take whatever they can get for it.
Stop crucifying a guy because he put a dollar amount on what he has to spend. If he can't locate a car for his set budget, he will likely realize he may have to up his ante if he wants to continue his hunt for a 66 Shelby. If you feel your car doesn't fit his criteria, just keep scrolling past his want ad until you find the right buyer for your car. Opportunities arise every day, with the right time and right place he may find what he is looking for.
This is petty nonsense. Leave it be and instead discuss the correct finish on your original parts and the correct methods of restoring these cars!! Isn't that what this site is supposed to be for?!
That's my 2 cents!!
Just spoke to a close friend of mine from Chicagoland he wants to remit this message :
You're still here? It's over!
Ferris Bhueller
Watch "You're Still Here?" on YouTube
https://youtu.be/Fc0V_o-IzME
Quote from: George Schalk on July 07, 2021, 02:32:24 PM
That day may come again, possibly sooner than you think. I would consider the Shelby market to be quite small for a couple reasons, a) the number of cars available, b) the limited number of buyers (baby boomers and Gen X'ers are primary buyers), c) and the small number of buyers who can actually afford to make a substantial purchase on an old car. When this small group of buyers is gone one day, this collector car market will dwindle and anyone invested in a collector car may be willing to take whatever they can get for it.
Agree x10 - I think the Shelby foodchain will spread even further - R's will always command top dollar given history/rarity but late driver 66's (like mine) will at best hold I reckon.
Looking at my own kids, they are into cars and are lucky to have a couple of what they consider classics (80/90's) - would love for them to takeover my cars one day but I am also very conscious that it could be a burden and I don't want them doing it just for sentimental reasons (especially if they are trying to buy a house etc, just too much money tied up when you are young)
To the OPs post, no harm in asking - for anyone that has sold a car online, sure you have had worse with "low ballers" and "tire kickers"
cheers
I just also need to say another view. I will speak for myself. I have a few cars that are worth good money. On the "passing" subject. If I was to pass on and my wife ws left with my cars, I would want her to sell them sooner than later due to having them sit for a year or two is not good for them. Nothing makes a car sell for less than it not starting. My cars are all paid for, we have money to live, we have a nice place to live, thus if they were sold for less than they should have been sold for, that is OK. It would also be OK with ME.....do you understand why I say that? (Although I do know a few people that think they will be able to take everything they have with them).
As usual everything on this forum has to take a giant S#$%.
The only question was would you sell your car for under market to someone because they are a forum member.
Then (as is always the case) we have to hear the same old tune, "my adult child only like pokemon and takes the bus", "everyone is going to die therefore no one will want our cars" Yes your child is the bench mark for the future, and since we are all going to die you should sell all your stuff and eat dirt, better yet sell what you own to leave to your heirs so they can buy a time share and a Prius.
Though you can't take the car(s) with you, they can certainly take you with them.
(https://i.imgur.com/JSx4iTZ.gif)
Wow, 5 pages of interesting reading but 1 factor on why someone might sell a car under market value wasn't discussed and 1 I have seen before. TAXES. I have 1 friend who bought a 67 GT500 under market many years ago. He put cash on the table and his gun(hey his story). Sellers had a choice for a private sale cash or maybe a more open market with a paper trail. They took the cash. Now my situation. A "good" friend of mine bought a Shelby around 2001 before the market jumped and got a good deal on it thanks to really low ball offers the prior owner got at a SAAC-MCR show. He paid 35K. Fast forward to last year. This same car in #1 is 250K plus but his car is a #4 to me. I know, I have done work on his car and know it. So I get my 69 428 SCJ Mach1 about ready to put back on the street and sell to buy his Vert. Now he said to me more than once "you know what I paid for it. You know what it needs. I'm not looking for top dollar and if you want it I'll give you a good deal". He is a business owner who knows what his capital gains will be if sold on consignment or auction. Cash sale to me means possibly he is looking to skirt the tax bill or not get scammed or open up his "privacy". We both save. So a few months ago I stop by. Go over the car again. Well when he said 140K and my Mach1(200K plus total for a 130K car) it was game over. I didn't say a word. I'll be having fun with my Mach for the time being. While it would have been nice to have Shelby "bookends" it wouldn't be at his "good price". The Shelby needed a full restoration including metal work and what happened to his engine (broken valve spring and bent pushrod) 2 years ago the engine would come out for a rebuild immediately. I even fabricated a tool to replace the valve spring with the head still on to get the car back running.
Market value fluctuates, could one be purchased under current market value, absolutely. There are enough dealers in the Shelby arena that can attest to that, if they weren't, those resellers wouldn't be in business.
The original question about selling it to a SAAC member at a discount, for some reason the OP implies that being a member affords you some discount. It does not, in fact, a current SAAC member should know what the current market is doing and be prepared to purchase a vehicle at that level.
As always, cash is king and some folks will take $20-30K less to have cash in hand and not a lot of folks keep $200-300K laying around.
Quote from: shelbymann1970 on July 08, 2021, 06:58:45 AM
Wow, 5 pages of interesting reading but 1 factor on why someone might sell a car under market value wasn't discussed and 1 I have seen before. TAXES. I have 1 friend who bought a 67 GT500 under market many years ago. He put cash on the table and his gun(hey his story). Sellers had a choice for a private sale cash or maybe a more open market with a paper trail. They took the cash. Now my situation. A "good" friend of mine bought a Shelby around 2001 before the market jumped and got a good deal on it thanks to really low ball offers the prior owner got at a SAAC-MCR show. He paid 35K. Fast forward to last year. This same car in #1 is 250K plus but his car is a #4 to me. I know, I have done work on his car and know it. So I get my 69 428 SCJ Mach1 about ready to put back on the street and sell to buy his Vert. Now he said to me more than once "you know what I paid for it. You know what it needs. I'm not looking for top dollar and if you want it I'll give you a good deal". He is a business owner who knows what his capital gains will be if sold on consignment or auction. Cash sale to me means possibly he is looking to skirt the tax bill or not get scammed or open up his "privacy". We both save. So a few months ago I stop by. Go over the car again. Well when he said 140K and my Mach1(200K plus total for a 130K car) it was game over. I didn't say a word. I'll be having fun with my Mach for the time being. While it would have been nice to have Shelby "bookends" it wouldn't be at his "good price". The Shelby needed a full restoration including metal work and what happened to his engine (broken valve spring and bent pushrod) 2 years ago the engine would come out for a rebuild immediately. I even fabricated a tool to replace the valve spring with the head still on to get the car back running.
I had asked, why would you sell at an auction for what 20K more and much more in "fees"?
many are not commenting but watching silently, I love it when this forum comes to life
Quote from: shelbymann1970 on July 08, 2021, 06:58:45 AM
Wow, 5 pages of interesting reading but 1 factor on why someone might sell a car under market value wasn't discussed and 1 I have seen before. TAXES. I have 1 friend who bought a 67 GT500 under market many years ago. He put cash on the table and his gun(hey his story). Sellers had a choice for a private sale cash or maybe a more open market with a paper trail. They took the cash. Now my situation. A "good" friend of mine bought a Shelby around 2001 before the market jumped and got a good deal on it thanks to really low ball offers the prior owner got at a SAAC-MCR show. He paid 35K. Fast forward to last year. This same car in #1 is 250K plus but his car is a #4 to me. I know, I have done work on his car and know it. So I get my 69 428 SCJ Mach1 about ready to put back on the street and sell to buy his Vert. Now he said to me more than once "you know what I paid for it. You know what it needs. I'm not looking for top dollar and if you want it I'll give you a good deal". He is a business owner who knows what his capital gains will be if sold on consignment or auction. Cash sale to me means possibly he is looking to skirt the tax bill or not get scammed or open up his "privacy". We both save. So a few months ago I stop by. Go over the car again. Well when he said 140K and my Mach1(200K plus total for a 130K car) it was game over. I didn't say a word. I'll be having fun with my Mach for the time being. While it would have been nice to have Shelby "bookends" it wouldn't be at his "good price". The Shelby needed a full restoration including metal work and what happened to his engine (broken valve spring and bent pushrod) 2 years ago the engine would come out for a rebuild immediately. I even fabricated a tool to replace the valve spring with the head still on to get the car back running.
Quote from: 67 GT350 on July 08, 2021, 09:33:50 AM
Quote from: shelbymann1970 on July 08, 2021, 06:58:45 AM
Wow, 5 pages of interesting reading but 1 factor on why someone might sell a car under market value wasn't discussed and 1 I have seen before. TAXES. I have 1 friend who bought a 67 GT500 under market many years ago. He put cash on the table and his gun(hey his story). Sellers had a choice for a private sale cash or maybe a more open market with a paper trail. They took the cash. Now my situation. A "good" friend of mine bought a Shelby around 2001 before the market jumped and got a good deal on it thanks to really low ball offers the prior owner got at a SAAC-MCR show. He paid 35K. Fast forward to last year. This same car in #1 is 250K plus but his car is a #4 to me. I know, I have done work on his car and know it. So I get my 69 428 SCJ Mach1 about ready to put back on the street and sell to buy his Vert. Now he said to me more than once "you know what I paid for it. You know what it needs. I'm not looking for top dollar and if you want it I'll give you a good deal". He is a business owner who knows what his capital gains will be if sold on consignment or auction. Cash sale to me means possibly he is looking to skirt the tax bill or not get scammed or open up his "privacy". We both save. So a few months ago I stop by. Go over the car again. Well when he said 140K and my Mach1(200K plus total for a 130K car) it was game over. I didn't say a word. I'll be having fun with my Mach for the time being. While it would have been nice to have Shelby "bookends" it wouldn't be at his "good price". The Shelby needed a full restoration including metal work and what happened to his engine (broken valve spring and bent pushrod) 2 years ago the engine would come out for a rebuild immediately. I even fabricated a tool to replace the valve spring with the head still on to get the car back running.
I had asked, why would you sell at an auction for what 20K more and much more in "fees"?
Yup those hidden fees +, +, + also many do not want to be on camera and be exposed to the world
Commenting just feeds the Troll.
Quote from: 67 GT350 on July 08, 2021, 09:33:50 AM
Quote from: shelbymann1970 on July 08, 2021, 06:58:45 AM
Wow, 5 pages of interesting reading but 1 factor on why someone might sell a car under market value wasn't discussed and 1 I have seen before. TAXES. I have 1 friend who bought a 67 GT500 under market many years ago. He put cash on the table and his gun(hey his story). Sellers had a choice for a private sale cash or maybe a more open market with a paper trail. They took the cash. Now my situation. A "good" friend of mine bought a Shelby around 2001 before the market jumped and got a good deal on it thanks to really low ball offers the prior owner got at a SAAC-MCR show. He paid 35K. Fast forward to last year. This same car in #1 is 250K plus but his car is a #4 to me. I know, I have done work on his car and know it. So I get my 69 428 SCJ Mach1 about ready to put back on the street and sell to buy his Vert. Now he said to me more than once "you know what I paid for it. You know what it needs. I'm not looking for top dollar and if you want it I'll give you a good deal". He is a business owner who knows what his capital gains will be if sold on consignment or auction. Cash sale to me means possibly he is looking to skirt the tax bill or not get scammed or open up his "privacy". We both save. So a few months ago I stop by. Go over the car again. Well when he said 140K and my Mach1(200K plus total for a 130K car) it was game over. I didn't say a word. I'll be having fun with my Mach for the time being. While it would have been nice to have Shelby "bookends" it wouldn't be at his "good price". The Shelby needed a full restoration including metal work and what happened to his engine (broken valve spring and bent pushrod) 2 years ago the engine would come out for a rebuild immediately. I even fabricated a tool to replace the valve spring with the head still on to get the car back running.
I had asked, why would you sell at an auction for what 20K more and much more in "fees"?
Fees was a little vague for me but duly noted. Fees are what politicians hit us with and then say they do not raise TAXES. Ditto for hotels in many areas. To me they are taxes.
Not making this political but the new administration is or has been working on a revised capital gains tax. Attached you will see current and proposed capital gains structures.
Biden is a financial genius. Lol. Barf.
Quote from: FL SAAC on July 08, 2021, 02:55:27 PM
Not making this political but the new administration is or has been working on a revised capital gains tax. Attached you will see current and proposed capital gains structures.
More taxes planned...?
We don't have a tax problem.
We have a spending problem.
Just my .02...
Bret
Quote from: capecodmustang.com on July 08, 2021, 03:23:14 PM
Quote from: FL SAAC on July 08, 2021, 02:55:27 PM
Not making this political but the new administration is or has been working on a revised capital gains tax. Attached you will see current and proposed capital gains structures.
More taxes planned...?
We don't have a tax problem.
We have a spending problem.
Just my .02...
Bret
Agreed my amigo.
Back to the topic at hand, who would sell their GT350 for less than its market value?
Take it a little further..... Would anyone sell something of value, (ANYTHING) below what would be considered normal for said item? Not unless substance abuse or cognitive decline of some sort was at play- No one cares if its your friend, or a fellow SAAC-ER involved...
Well the answer to your second question would be :
Yes, read through pages one through six and you will see many views as to why anyone would sell under any items true value. Betcha we even missed a few more reason why
Quote from: 427heaven on July 08, 2021, 08:12:34 PM
Take it a little further..... Would anyone sell something of value, (ANYTHING) below what would be considered normal for said item? Not unless substance abuse or cognitive decline of some sort was at play- No one cares if its your friend, or a fellow SAAC-ER involved...
"You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometime, you get what you nee-eed."
Quote from: 427heaven on July 08, 2021, 08:12:34 PM
Take it a little further..... Would anyone sell something of value, (ANYTHING) below what would be considered normal for said item? Not unless substance abuse or cognitive decline of some sort was at play- No one cares if its your friend, or a fellow SAAC-ER involved...
Well if they didn't dealers would be out of business or at least most of them for used car sales. The only reason I can think of other than the ones you mentioned is convenience of a quick sale and not opening up your life to any stranger that may answer your ad. My old 68 Shelby the prior owner to me got it for a good deal because the owner was hooked on crack(late 80s). He had already sold a garage full of goodies his dad had gave him and then the steering wheel and console were sold before my friend bought the car. The guys wife was pissed when she found out he had the money. She told my 2 friends that he will just blow it on crack. Fast forward 2 decades later the I find the guy and he beat his addiction and inherited his dads trucking firm and was doing well. The trail stopped with him as he could only remember the kid's first name he bought the car off of. The last name he wasn't 100 percent sure and a search of that name yielded zero results.
Have you notice that since this discussion has started, there are no cars for sale on the forum? Coincidence? You be the judge.
I guess all of the potential sellers considered all of the sound arguments posted here and ended up giving their cars away.
At the end of the day... isn't buying and selling just a matter of a yes or no.
I recently had someone make an unsolicited offer on my GT350 that was double what I paid for it.
In short my response was no. He commented 'Yeah, I wouldn't have sold it for that either'.
Did he make me a fair offer...... oh yes he did. More than fair, in fact probably twenty to thirty more that its worth. He was willing to overpay IMHO, and then let me know that he would pay even more by his parting comment. I truly believe I could have upped his offer by twenty five, and he would have bought it..... it was lunch money for him, and condo in the mountains money for me.
In my opinion he was and is ready to buy and get what he wants. Me, regardless of price I am not ready to sell.... its only been mine for 3 or 4 years, and I still have work to do to get it where it needs to be IMO and more driving enjoyment is in our future.
At the end of the day.... it's just a simple yes or no.... whether you are holding the keys, or the checkbook.
Quote from: oldcanuck on July 09, 2021, 09:00:08 AM
At the end of the day... isn't buying and selling just a matter of a yes or no.
I recently had someone make an unsolicited offer on my GT350 that was double what I paid for it.
In short my response was no. He commented 'Yeah, I wouldn't have sold it for that either'.
Did he make me a fair offer...... oh yes he did. More than fair, in fact probably twenty to thirty more that its worth. He was willing to overpay IMHO, and then let me know that he would pay even more by his parting comment. I truly believe I could have upped his offer by twenty five, and he would have bought it..... it was lunch money for him, and condo in the mountains money for me.
In my opinion he was and is ready to buy and get what he wants. Me, regardless of price I am not ready to sell.... its only been mine for 3 or 4 years, and I still have work to do to get it where it needs to be IMO and more driving enjoyment is in our future.
At the end of the day.... it's just a simple yes or no.... whether you are holding the keys, or the checkbook.
I've had my vert for 36 years now and I'm not ready to sell. :)
Dang we just hit page 7 !
It's the same trolls that make every discussion about them, they have ruined this forum.
Some of us can not embrace change but truly struggle because they lack the necessary know-how to connect
In working with people, we embark together on a process of change that involves 8 stages of transformation:
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2. Disidentification
3. Disorientation
4. Letting Go
5. Reengagement
6. Discovery
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For more help follow my daily "Fighting Negativity" tips to guide you through these stressful times
Thank you
Less is more
Quote from: Bill on July 09, 2021, 12:40:35 PM
Less is more
+ 1 I agree Bill all this sesquipedalianism loquaciousness is truly unnecessary.
I'm sticking with Bhueller y'all still here.....
Quote from: FL SAAC on July 09, 2021, 12:53:35 PM
Quote from: Bill on July 09, 2021, 12:40:35 PM
Less is more
+ 1 I agree Bill all this sesquipedalianism loquaciousness is truly unnecessary.
I'm sticking with Bhueller y'all still here.....
You are truly a master of destruction, you have almost single handedly annoyed every member yet keep plugging away. I have not seen narcissism on display like this in many years.
You have truly disenchanted me with your statements.
I leave you with this advice "Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome" let me add smile !
Back to the topic :
Who would sell their gt350 for less then it's market value?
Who cares ?
Quote from: 427hunter on July 09, 2021, 01:19:10 PM
Quote from: FL SAAC on July 09, 2021, 12:53:35 PM
Quote from: Bill on July 09, 2021, 12:40:35 PM
Less is more
+ 1 I agree Bill all this sesquipedalianism loquaciousness is truly unnecessary.
I'm sticking with Bhueller y'all still here.....
You are truly a master of destruction, you have almost single handedly annoyed every member yet keep plugging away. I have not seen narcissism on display like this in many years.
Quote from: FL SAAC on July 09, 2021, 01:38:25 PM
You have truly disenchanted me with your statements.
I leave you with this advice "Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome" let me add smile !
Back to the topic :
Who would sell their gt350 for less then it's market value?
Who cares
[/quote]
I would think you would care, as you are the one trying to buy a gt350 for 80k. Or did you forget your prior insanity?
This is how we always get off topic, please refer to the original post.
As far as what one wants and what one gets, that would be another discussion to be held.
No need to loose sleep or worry your head over a hypothetical question.
Cheers !
Quote from: 427hunter on July 06, 2021, 12:40:27 PM
I have recently seen a number of wanted posts for 66 gt350's, the common thread is that the people posting these wants (for the most part) are looking for a car below it's market value, in some cases less then 50% of market value.
The question is, would owners here on the saac forum sell their car for a reduce price because the buyer is on the saac forum as well?
Researcher Ben Radford wrote about the phenomenon of clowns in history and modern day in his book Bad Clowns, and found that bad clowns have evolved into Internet trolls. They do not dress up as traditional clowns but, for their own amusement, they tease and exploit "human foibles" in order to speak the "truth" and gain a reaction. Like clowns in make-up, Internet trolls hide behind "anonymous accounts and fake usernames". In their eyes, they are the trickster and are performing for a nameless audience via the Internet. Studies conducted in the fields of human–computer interaction and cyberpsychology by other researchers have corroborated Radford's analysis on the phenomenon of Internet trolling as a form of deception-serving entertainment and its correlations to aggressive behavior, katagelasticism, black humor, and the Dark tetrad.
Trolling correlates positively with sadism, trait psychopathy, and Machiavellianism (see Dark triad). Trolls take pleasure from causing pain and emotional suffering. Their ability to upset or harm gives them a feeling of power. Psychological researches conducted in the fields of personality psychology and cyberpsychology report that trolling behavior qualifies as an anti-social behavior and is strongly correlated to Sadistic personality disorder (SPD). Researches have shown that men, compared with women, are more likely to perpetrate trolling behavior; these gender differences in online anti-social behavior may be a reflection of gender stereotypes, where agentic characteristics such as competitiveness and dominance are encouraged in men. The results corroborated that gender (male) is a significant predictor of trolling behavior, alongside trait psychopathy and sadism to be significant positive predictors. Moreover, these studies have shown that people who enjoy trolling online tend to also enjoy hurting other people in everyday life, therefore corroborating a longstanding and persistent pattern of psychopathological sadism.
A psychoanalytic and sexologic study on the phenomenon of Internet trolling asserts that anonymity increases the incidence of the trolling behavior, and that "the internet is becoming a medium to invest our anxieties and not thinking about the repercussions of trolling and affecting the victims mentally and incite a sense of guilt and shame within them".
Please stay on this topic or start your own post
Thank you in advance
P.S. you have the same writing methods of someone negative who posted here in the past ...
Quote from: Krelboyne on July 09, 2021, 05:09:25 PM
Researcher Ben Radford wrote about the phenomenon of clowns in history and modern day in his book Bad Clowns, and found that bad clowns have evolved into Internet trolls. They do not dress up as traditional clowns but, for their own amusement, they tease and exploit "human foibles" in order to speak the "truth" and gain a reaction. Like clowns in make-up, Internet trolls hide behind "anonymous accounts and fake usernames". In their eyes, they are the trickster and are performing for a nameless audience via the Internet. Studies conducted in the fields of human–computer interaction and cyberpsychology by other researchers have corroborated Radford's analysis on the phenomenon of Internet trolling as a form of deception-serving entertainment and its correlations to aggressive behavior, katagelasticism, black humor, and the Dark tetrad.
Trolling correlates positively with sadism, trait psychopathy, and Machiavellianism (see Dark triad). Trolls take pleasure from causing pain and emotional suffering. Their ability to upset or harm gives them a feeling of power. Psychological researches conducted in the fields of personality psychology and cyberpsychology report that trolling behavior qualifies as an anti-social behavior and is strongly correlated to Sadistic personality disorder (SPD). Researches have shown that men, compared with women, are more likely to perpetrate trolling behavior; these gender differences in online anti-social behavior may be a reflection of gender stereotypes, where agentic characteristics such as competitiveness and dominance are encouraged in men. The results corroborated that gender (male) is a significant predictor of trolling behavior, alongside trait psychopathy and sadism to be significant positive predictors. Moreover, these studies have shown that people who enjoy trolling online tend to also enjoy hurting other people in everyday life, therefore corroborating a longstanding and persistent pattern of psychopathological sadism.
A psychoanalytic and sexologic study on the phenomenon of Internet trolling asserts that anonymity increases the incidence of the trolling behavior, and that "the internet is becoming a medium to invest our anxieties and not thinking about the repercussions of trolling and affecting the victims mentally and incite a sense of guilt and shame within them".
Quote from: Krelboyne on July 09, 2021, 05:09:25 PM
Researcher Ben Radford wrote about the phenomenon of clowns in history and modern day in his book Bad Clowns, and found that bad clowns have evolved into Internet trolls. They do not dress up as traditional clowns but, for their own amusement, they tease and exploit "human foibles" in order to speak the "truth" and gain a reaction. Like clowns in make-up, Internet trolls hide behind "anonymous accounts and fake usernames". In their eyes, they are the trickster and are performing for a nameless audience via the Internet. Studies conducted in the fields of human–computer interaction and cyberpsychology by other researchers have corroborated Radford's analysis on the phenomenon of Internet trolling as a form of deception-serving entertainment and its correlations to aggressive behavior, katagelasticism, black humor, and the Dark tetrad.
Trolling correlates positively with sadism, trait psychopathy, and Machiavellianism (see Dark triad). Trolls take pleasure from causing pain and emotional suffering. Their ability to upset or harm gives them a feeling of power. Psychological researches conducted in the fields of personality psychology and cyberpsychology report that trolling behavior qualifies as an anti-social behavior and is strongly correlated to Sadistic personality disorder (SPD). Researches have shown that men, compared with women, are more likely to perpetrate trolling behavior; these gender differences in online anti-social behavior may be a reflection of gender stereotypes, where agentic characteristics such as competitiveness and dominance are encouraged in men. The results corroborated that gender (male) is a significant predictor of trolling behavior, alongside trait psychopathy and sadism to be significant positive predictors. Moreover, these studies have shown that people who enjoy trolling online tend to also enjoy hurting other people in everyday life, therefore corroborating a longstanding and persistent pattern of psychopathological sadism.
A psychoanalytic and sexologic study on the phenomenon of Internet trolling asserts that anonymity increases the incidence of the trolling behavior, and that "the internet is becoming a medium to invest our anxieties and not thinking about the repercussions of trolling and affecting the victims mentally and incite a sense of guilt and shame within them".
+1 and sadly, "The Truth".
Holy Mackerel we is on page eight, good lawd !
WOW, maybe not a 66, BUT...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/224531935637?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=CUgHyHB2TSh%252FrgmU0yBfQT4y39o%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc
Quote from: 67 GT350 on July 13, 2021, 05:24:32 PM
WOW, maybe not a 66, BUT...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/224531935637?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=CUgHyHB2TSh%252FrgmU0yBfQT4y39o%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc
wow strange ad.
Quote from: shelbymann1970 on July 13, 2021, 05:54:24 PM
Quote from: 67 GT350 on July 13, 2021, 05:24:32 PM
WOW, maybe not a 66, BUT...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/224531935637?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=CUgHyHB2TSh%252FrgmU0yBfQT4y39o%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc
wow strange ad.
Holy Mackerel !
Quote from: shelbymann1970 on July 13, 2021, 05:54:24 PM
wow strange ad.
Guess so but kind of refreshing. Not like the seller appears to be a professional at selling on Ebay
The ad and pictures lack all the hoopla and obfuscation we typically see with all the history of the Shelby (not always the specific car) and used car sales man's slickness. May have sold for more (if it sold to a new owner) if they had constructed a better ad, with more info and detail.
Not allot of solid (don't know if that is the case here) unrestored or not fixed up cars out there and fewer every day.
Even though its not a GT350, the stated focus of this thread, it is an example of "market value" at this moment
Looked like a good buy if everything checked out. There are good deals out there from time to time. I do like the 67s and lusted after one before 843 came into my life.
Quote from: deathsled on July 13, 2021, 09:04:11 PM
Looked like a good buy if everything checked out. There are good deals out there from time to time. I do like the 67s and lusted after one before 843 came into my life.
+ 1
Quote from: J_Speegle on July 13, 2021, 08:58:03 PM
Quote from: shelbymann1970 on July 13, 2021, 05:54:24 PM
wow strange ad.
Guess so but kind of refreshing. Not like the seller appears to be a professional at selling on Ebay
The ad and pictures lack all the hoopla and obfuscation we typically see with all the history of the Shelby (not always the specific car) and used car sales man's slickness. May have sold for more (if it sold to a new owner) if they had constructed a better ad, with more info and detail.
Not allot of solid (don't know if that is the case here) unrestored or not fixed up cars out there and fewer every day.
Even though its not a GT350, the stated focus of this thread, it is an example of "market value" at this moment
While it said 1967 Mustang-1967 Shelby Mustang in sub title- there was no description at all. Nothing. Not even a little. That is what I found strange. I don't recall seeing ads with zero description for cars. Parts? Yes. Cars, no.
Well there you go... possibly a sale at less than market value.
Hell.... I would think if real, it would part out for more than that !
Just my .02
Quote from: shelbymann1970 on July 14, 2021, 09:40:33 AM
Quote from: J_Speegle on July 13, 2021, 08:58:03 PM
Quote from: shelbymann1970 on July 13, 2021, 05:54:24 PM
wow strange ad.
Guess so but kind of refreshing. Not like the seller appears to be a professional at selling on Ebay
The ad and pictures lack all the hoopla and obfuscation we typically see with all the history of the Shelby (not always the specific car) and used car sales man's slickness. May have sold for more (if it sold to a new owner) if they had constructed a better ad, with more info and detail.
Not allot of solid (don't know if that is the case here) unrestored or not fixed up cars out there and fewer every day.
Even though its not a GT350, the stated focus of this thread, it is an example of "market value" at this moment
While it said 1967 Mustang-1967 Shelby Mustang in sub title- there was no description at all. Nothing. Not even a little. That is what I found strange. I don't recall seeing ads with zero description for cars. Parts? Yes. Cars, no.
Those that remain vigilant, always watching, will be rewarded, those that dont... Well dont!
I like the ad. No two or three paragraph history of SAI , or FLOWERY descriptions . The car is what it is , let it sell itself.
in the market still looking.....