Stupid question maybe but does the h-pipe need to come out to remove the transmission and bell housing? Looks like there could be enough room or am I dreaming?
Thanks!
May not need to come out... but I'd bet it needs to be dropped from the manifolds at least. probably just as easy to just take it out.
It was 1987 when I changed mine, I think I remember leaving the bell housing attached and removing the transmission and reinstalling it that way with a floor jack and alignment tool.
Someone please correct me if I am wrong.
Quote from: 67 GT350 on August 23, 2021, 09:58:37 AM
It was 1987 when I changed mine, I think I remember leaving the bell housing attached and removing the transmission and reinstalling it that way with a floor jack and alignment tool.
Someone please correct me if I am wrong.
The bell housing has to be removed to get the clutch and pressure plate out.
Well yeah, I think if I remember, I dropped the transmission then unbolted the bell housing, then removed the pressure plate/clutch....and reinstalled it in reverse....installed the PP/clutch (new pilot bussing/throw out bearing) aligned it with a tool, bolted the bell housing back on, then with a floor jack raised the transmission up and slid it into the bell housing.....I think I may have had the car as high as I could get it? Maybe higher in the front?
May not apply but last week I removed the 4 speed transmission on my GT500 by sliding the transmission on a jack having the tail shaft set on the H pipe and then lowering the front of the transmission down on the front to get it out. Did this with out removing the exhaust. Not sure about this install?
Quote from: BDT 739 on August 23, 2021, 07:52:50 PM
May not apply but last week I removed the 4 speed transmission on my GT500 by sliding the transmission on a jack having the tail shaft set on the H pipe and then lowering the front of the transmission down on the front to get it out. Did this with out removing the exhaust. Not sure about this install?
That's what I was thinking. I don't know if it would be any different in a 500 vs a 350.
My hesitation with the h-pipe is I'm sure it's not going to come apart as easily as it went together after having been clamped and I can see myself trying to jimmy it around, beating on it with a mallet and potentially making a mess of it and the surrounding area - especially after I lose my patience with it.
Quote from: corbins on August 23, 2021, 09:48:14 AM
May not need to come out... but I'd bet it needs to be dropped from the manifolds at least. probably just as easy to just take it out.
Easy? lol - Nothing is easy on this car and everything has to be done
at least twice.
All joking aside - I get your point.
I think this is what I did, if I remember:
Unbolt everything attached to the transmission,
Unbolt the 4 bolts that hold the transmission to the bell housing,
Slide a floor jack under the transmission at a point where it can balance,
Slightly jack it up to relieve and make it where you can roll it backwards, (should not have to say this but the car will need to be raised),
As you pull the transmission towards the rear, very slightly start to drop it, wait until you feel that it has cleared the pressure plate,
Carefully when you can lower it more, slide it out from under the car,
Then you can go back under and unbolt the bell housing,
Then you can unbolt all the pressure plate.
IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY, This is the way I did it. I do now recall my car did have headers, maybe that is the reason I was able to do it that this way. Maybe I am wrong, but thinking and attempting this through, the worst that might happen is you will have to do you biggest fear and drop the exhaust. PLEASE make sure you have the car raised SAFELY! OR DO NOT DO IT AT ALL. Do not attempt to remove the transmission and bell housing together (attached) as you will loose so much clearance. I may have missed something, but the fact you want to attempt this procedure, make me think you have been there done that before, thus you understand how to do this and making changes to any procedure may benefit the outcome.
OR...
Take the car to a TRUSTED mechanic and let them put it on a lift, use nice air tools, and do it for you. That's what I would probably do at the age of 62, I was 24 back then.
Quote from: DGSOH on August 24, 2021, 04:37:39 AM
Quote from: BDT 739 on August 23, 2021, 07:52:50 PM
May not apply but last week I removed the 4 speed transmission on my GT500 by sliding the transmission on a jack having the tail shaft set on the H pipe and then lowering the front of the transmission down on the front to get it out. Did this with out removing the exhaust. Not sure about this install?
That's what I was thinking. I don't know if it would be any different in a 500 vs a 350.
My hesitation with the h-pipe is I'm sure it's not going to come apart as easily as it went together after having been clamped and I can see myself trying to jimmy it around, beating on it with a mallet and potentially making a mess of it and the surrounding area - especially after I lose my patience with it.
The procedure is the same regardless of if GT350 or 500 . You take the H pipe loose at the exhaust manifold to drop it somewhat out of the way.
So, the answer to the original question is no, the h-pipe doesn't have to come out though I think it could be acknowledged it would be easier to remove the trans with it gone. In addition there appears to be an acceptable compromise of dropping the the h-pipe off the exhaust manifolds so as to facilitate somewhat better access to accomplish the task.
I think my needs have been met - thanks to all contributors!
Wish me luck : )
Quote from: BDT 739 on August 24, 2021, 02:18:05 PM
The question from the post was, does the h-pipe need to come out to remove the transmission. What I said was I did not remove the exhaust and I did not unbolt the H pipe from the exhaust manifold. The H pipe helped stabilize the tail of the transmission. Turning 63 it was easier back when I installed the transmission when I was 36.
My ANSWER was in regards to you wondering if things were different between GT350 and 500. As far as my commentary about lowering the H pipe by disconnecting at the exhaust manifolds to get more out of the way, that is the typical way to get it done . It was said as a matter of fact without sarcasm or other indication of malicious intent . It was meant to be helpful not hurtful .Sorry if you took it as unhelpful.
Not thought that way. I thought it was thought that the h-pipe was lowered with the transmission on it. Gravity was use to remove it and the h-pipe may be lowered when reinstalling it. Best of luck DGSOH. As always look forward to reading a your posts Bob. Very informative.
Oh my, what have I gotten myself into...
Before actually pulling the trans I decided to inspect things a little more, 2 things stand out:
- There seems to be a lot of fork free play before the throw out bearing contacts the fingers/levers - if they're even still intact. This is I what noticed on my first inspection and concluded I needed a new clutch assembly. Today I measured how much free play and it's 7/8" where the lower release lever seats in the fork.
- The weld on the lower dog of the equalizer bar is cracked and slightly separated. There's evidence of it having been cracked for some time i.e. rust/discoloration in the crack cavity but there's also evidence of further distortion i.e. shiny metal closer to the intact area but it's ever so slight. There is no significant distortion of the equalizer bar such that I would conclude that's the entire problem but admittedly there is some.
All assembled the clutch pedal moves freely i.e. does not begin to engage the clutch for about 3/4 of it's ordinary travel but bottoms out there. Pressing further does not feel like the clutch is being released but rather feels like the whole assembly is flexing.
So now a couple of questions:
- Does 7/8" seem like excessive free play? I don't remember there being that much before but who knows.
- What are the chances the clutch (pressure plate et al) is damaged such that the fork is bottoming out without releasing and the evidence of new damage, again - ever so slight, to the equalizer bar is just from me pushing on a peddle that can't travel any more?
- I see NPD has a repro equalizer bar - I know it's not exact, what are folks thoughts on these? Are there other options? Has anyone had their original repaired with success and good results?
- Any other ideas?
Oh - and the clutch and throw out bearing were new less than 1000 miles ago as were most linkage components.
I'd post pictures but - Adobe bricked my Creative Suite, they say it's too old to own - another long story I won't bore you with. The hits just keep on coming as they say.
Any and all help is greatly appreciated as always.
Thanks!
I am keeping my mouth shut!
Hahaha, I could not help using humor.
The equalizer bars (Z-bars) are known to bend on the cars and if the clutch used is of a more Heavy-duty (do you know what the current clutch set-up is?) then extra flexing and bending is likely.
Also is it the same type of clutch, there are many pages of clutch preferences and set-up on this forum.
Service manual will give all the spec's and adjustments, you have one I hope.
Quote from: JD on August 28, 2021, 09:50:11 PM
The equalizer bars (Z-bars) are known to bend on the cars and if the clutch used is of a more Heavy-duty (do you know what the current clutch set-up is?) then extra flexing and bending is likely.
Also is it the same type of clutch, there are many pages of clutch preferences and set-up on this forum.
Service manual will give all the spec's and adjustments, you have one I hope.
Thanks JD.
Yes, have read about how *fragile* the z-bar can be. Mine is a little bent but who or what isn't after 54+ years : ) But without mocking up a sample in my CAD app it's hard to tell if it's enough to be the sole cause. My gut tells me no.
Yes, same type clutch i.e. 3 lever long throw - RAM 92502 which I think is a little beefier than stock. Initially it did feel stiffer than I remember the one that was in there before resto, to the point where I called the company to inquire if what I was feeling was normal. They said yes but could reduce the clamping pressure if needed. After a little while I just didn't think about it any more.
Yes sir, I have a service manual. Back in the day I'd buy one whenever I got a new car, this was no different. The pages are falling out but still have them all. An invaluable resource.
A guy on another forum said he had a clutch where one of the levers broke and had identical symptoms, that's what my inclination was (or something like that) upon first inspection but digging deeper revealed the z-bar defect as well.
At this point I'm going to put in a repop z-bar and see where I'm at. Either way I don't want to use the original in it's current state and this will give me some time to get it repaired.