SAAC Forum

The Cars => 1966 Shelby GT350/GT350H => Topic started by: Fastback66 on November 17, 2021, 01:41:45 PM

Title: Factory AC in a 66 H?
Post by: Fastback66 on November 17, 2021, 01:41:45 PM
A friend claims to have a 1966 GT350H with factory AC...I haven't seen the car in person yet.  I wasn't aware of any 66 GT350's other than the convertibles that came with AC...were there any exceptions?
Title: Re: Factory AC in a 66 H?
Post by: PrettyMuchAShelbyGuy on November 17, 2021, 01:57:34 PM
The term factory may be loosely used here. If it’s a hang on “FoMoCo” unit, likely dealer installed after delivery.  I don’t believe factory air was ever offered as an integrated system until 1967. Looking for the super experts to correct me or chime in
Title: Re: Factory AC in a 66 H?
Post by: J_Speegle on November 17, 2021, 02:22:16 PM
There are always claims always stories.

Have seen a small handful where the owner added AC as well as many other period or "factory" (Mustang) options

What's the car number?  Pretty easy to check and confirm with that information.

But think we can all predict the outcome but the car number would provide documentation. Same process any buyer would/should do if he put it up for sale
Title: Re: Factory AC in a 66 H?
Post by: Bob Gaines on November 17, 2021, 04:27:36 PM
There are always claims always stories.

Have seen a small handful where the owner added AC as well as many other period or "factory" (Mustang) options

What's the car number?  Pretty easy to check and confirm with that information.

But think we can all predict the outcome but the car number would provide documentation. Same process any buyer would/should do if he put it up for sale
+1
Title: Re: Factory AC in a 66 H?
Post by: Harris Speedster on November 18, 2021, 08:13:59 AM
A 1965 Shelby I once owned, did get documented as having AC installed by Shelby.
Also had 4 other documented oddities.
Paperwork within SAAC was found to document.

Another lady owned 65 I had from an eastern state had a dealer installed ac system. Two different worlds of documentation.
Sold it to Curt, then Curt sold to Big Jim Cowles as I recall.
Does it count when dealer installation is done, or should the systems/additions >> and other things ford offered, be removed from a car?
Respectfully,
John,
Title: Re: Factory AC in a 66 H?
Post by: Bob Gaines on November 18, 2021, 10:10:03 AM
A 1965 Shelby I once owned, did get documented as having AC installed by Shelby.
Also had 4 other documented oddities.
Paperwork within SAAC was found to document.

Another lady owned 65 I had from an eastern state had a dealer installed ac system. Two different worlds of documentation.
Sold it to Curt, then Curt sold to Big Jim Cowles as I recall.
Does it count when dealer installation is done, or should the systems/additions >> and other things ford offered, be removed from a car?
Respectfully,
John,
If the install is done prior to the dealer delivering to the first owner it is considered legitimate (as delivered) as far as concours judging goes . If it was installed AFTER it was delivered to the first owner then it is not considered as delivered. That is the typical line in the sand at least for the Mustang/Shelby venues. One day, one week ,one year or one decade may still be interesting to the cars history but too late to be considered as delivered. 
Title: Re: Factory AC in a 66 H?
Post by: J_Speegle on November 18, 2021, 02:12:58 PM
A 1965 Shelby I once owned, did get documented as having AC installed by Shelby.
Also had 4 other documented oddities.
Paperwork within SAAC was found to document........................
Does it count when dealer installation is done, or should the systems/additions >> and other things ford offered, be removed from a car?

In the example of the 65 with documentation was the car converted after the car was purchased by the first owner or possibly another owner?  Paperwork might spell out who the conversion was being done for.

Like most things its all in the details (when, where and for whom)  and and how the current owner feels about all of that. In this case do you want to own as show (judged or unjudged show) an odd ball and have dozens of people point out that "look someone added AC to ....." or something like that or something with a little more bite.

Does the owner want to preserve the cars complete history and reflect that or return it to how the car was designed to be? This is question many owners have to make since these cars were often modified and altered right out of the dealership.

Have one car that was very likely modified before it was delivered to the first customer so we're in the same boat and we each make the choice for our time with the car and life goes on. One just needs to be confident and comfortable in their choice it is theirs to make and live with. Not always an easy one though
Title: Re: Factory AC in a 66 H?
Post by: Harris Speedster on November 19, 2021, 10:00:01 AM
The lady owned 65 from back east;
not sure, or should I say, I can't remember all details.
It was a present from her husband, it had air, I almost think, 90%,  it was installed at the dealer before being picked up.
Original paint car which had 1 touch up in its life oin back tail light panel.

The other one which did have shelby paperwork, also had a video done of the car. Big Jim Cowles flew out to my place in Ut to verify and to buy.
Respectfully,
John

Title: Re: Factory AC in a 66 H?
Post by: gt350hr on November 19, 2021, 11:38:15 AM
     With the documentation Howard has , the answer should be easy. My guess is no. Hertz wouldn't spend the extra money to do it , plus the harmonic balancer had to be modified to use a Ford crank pulley.
Title: Re: Factory AC in a 66 H?
Post by: shelbydoug on November 19, 2021, 12:38:09 PM
In the day I saw lots of dealer installed "hang-ons" on '65s. I can't remember any '66s but none of them that I remember were HP's.

I'm not sure what an "assembly-line" 65-6 A/C would look like? Everything I ever saw in those years was a hang on.

Was there ever an in-dash unit for them?
Title: Re: Factory AC in a 66 H?
Post by: 98SVT - was 06GT on November 19, 2021, 12:57:48 PM
In the day I saw lots of dealer installed "hang-ons" on '65s. I can't remember any '66s but none of them that I remember were HP's.

I'm not sure what an "assembly-line" 65-6 A/C would look like? Everything I ever saw in those years was a hang on.

Was there ever an in-dash unit for them?

The "hang on" unit was all that was available. If you ordered AC with the car the factory installed it. If you wanted AC  later you or the dealer could install it. It was available from parts as a complete kit - for adding on to most models and trucks. For 65/6 there were two consoles one had the storage compartment cut off to clear the AC - the chrome piece they used to cover the cut is hard to find.
Title: Re: Factory AC in a 66 H?
Post by: Harris Speedster on November 19, 2021, 06:18:02 PM
Both air units I refereed to in the 65 Shelby's  were after market. The name ARA comes to mind?
An under dash unit like Ford put in 1964 full size cars is what a 65 mustang would have come with via a factory order.
Seem to recall the chrome face with ford logo changed a bit for 1966 model year mustangs ?

Bit of trivia;
sent a 1955 factory ford installed a/c system to Australia years ago. Ford Select Air as I recall was the name on the round heater/ac control panel.
 As far as ford cars go, I think 1965 was the first year for in dash Ford a/c. 99%
Not sure about Lincoln or Mercury though.
crazy I remember all that, but not what I ate for dinner on Thursday, go figure.
John
Title: Re: Factory AC in a 66 H?
Post by: J_Speegle on November 19, 2021, 07:19:32 PM
Both air units I refereed to in the 65 Shelby's  were after market. The name ARA comes to mind?
An under dash unit like Ford put in 1964 full size cars is what a 65 mustang would have come with via a factory order.
Seem to recall the chrome face with ford logo changed a bit for 1966 model year mustangs ?

And available in kit form for dealers installation. Some of the details/parts are different between factory installed parts and dealer (kit) parts

Yes there are a number of differences between factory installed 65 and 66. If dealer installed the dealer could have had either kit on the shelf. At least in later 60's this involved two kits. One for engine compartment parts and one for engine compartment parts - dependent on engine size.
Title: Re: Factory AC in a 66 H?
Post by: 98SVT - was 06GT on November 19, 2021, 09:19:56 PM
Both air units I refereed to in the 65 Shelby's  were after market. The name ARA comes to mind?
 As far as ford cars go, I think 1965 was the first year for in dash Ford a/c.
ARA was a big after market supplier. It would be reasonable for SA to send a car to one of their shops for installation since it was cheaper than Ford.
It would also put any warranty work in ARAs lap rather than having to sort out a who's paying Ford or SA problem.
Tbirds had indash AC since 1958.
Title: Re: Factory AC in a 66 H?
Post by: Bigfoot on November 19, 2021, 10:09:35 PM
Reminds me of the bench seat car……….,…rather bench seat story…..
Title: Re: Factory AC in a 66 H?
Post by: Harris Speedster on November 20, 2021, 08:50:56 AM
98 svt,
Yeah, weird that ford placed a factory check box for air in a 1955 pass car, but yet did not offer it in the bird.
Yeah, the 58 square bird was offered with that check box for a/c/.
Respectfully.
John

Title: Re: Factory AC in a 66 H?
Post by: shelbydoug on November 20, 2021, 09:06:44 AM
I'm thinking that A/C was just not a popular thing until the late '60s? There wasn't much motivation for Ford to integrate it until demand got to a certain point.
Title: Re: Factory AC in a 66 H?
Post by: J_Speegle on November 20, 2021, 07:08:43 PM
I'm thinking that A/C was just not a popular thing until the late '60s? There wasn't much motivation for Ford to integrate it until demand got to a certain point.

Depended on the Ford model and the price (sale) price it appears
Title: Re: Factory AC in a 66 H?
Post by: Side-Oilers on November 20, 2021, 08:39:40 PM
Both air units I refereed to in the 65 Shelby's  were after market. The name ARA comes to mind?
An under dash unit like Ford put in 1964 full size cars is what a 65 mustang would have come with via a factory order.
Seem to recall the chrome face with ford logo changed a bit for 1966 model year mustangs ?

Bit of trivia;
sent a 1955 factory ford installed a/c system to Australia years ago. Ford Select Air as I recall was the name on the round heater/ac control panel.
 As far as ford cars go, I think 1965 was the first year for in dash Ford a/c. 99%
Not sure about Lincoln or Mercury though.
crazy I remember all that, but not what I ate for dinner on Thursday, go figure.
John

My '62 T-Bird had factory in-dash A/C.  The '61 'birds did too. 

Not sure about the other Fords.
Title: Re: Factory AC in a 66 H?
Post by: Harris Speedster on November 21, 2021, 09:35:52 AM
Side oiler,
From 1958 on, all birds had a/c. May have been called std equip then. I have never witnessed a bird without?
I think ??? that it was Lincoln around 52ish ? that had factory air.
They were easy to spot, as they had these  awful looking huge R-L clear ducts in the back window.

My grandfather bought a 1964 Ford that was loaded. The a/c was under dash factory. >>> same looking ford unit was later used for 65-66 mustang to my best knowledge.
1967 appears to be the 1st Mustang with factory air?
That brings to mind, was there a check box for under dash optional air in 1965-1966 Mustang ?

I think that 1965 was the first year for true in dash a/c for most Ford brands?
My aunt purchased a new 1964 Mercury with the electric roll down back window. I have tried to visualize the car for a/c, as I am sure if she could have ordered it, she would have.
Granted, as all through auto history, I believe that Ford Lincoln or Mercury had special concepts made that factory exec's drove with A/C.

I truly am not sure of what manufacturer in the world, first had a/c in a car?
Respectfully,
John


Title: Re: Factory AC in a 66 H?
Post by: J_Speegle on November 21, 2021, 03:01:42 PM
...........
1967 appears to be the 1st Mustang with factory air?
That brings to mind, was there a check box for under dash optional air in 1965-1966 Mustang ?

That would be "1st Mustang with indash factory air"

If your referring to the forms used in ordering a 65-66 car rather than a handwritten description that used with the possible new owner then yes there was a spot on the form/car to indicate that. These forms were shared by all of the Ford passenger car lline
Title: Re: Factory AC in a 66 H?
Post by: Harris Speedster on November 22, 2021, 08:19:27 AM
Jeff,
Correct, it was the first in dash air offered, my error in detail.
All gets complicated as no consistency played out.

I am now left wondering which manufacturer in the world offered a/c first ?
Respectfully,
John




Title: Re: Factory AC in a 66 H?
Post by: shelbydoug on November 22, 2021, 09:44:05 AM
Jeff,
Correct, it was the first in dash air offered, my error in detail.
All gets complicated as no consistency played out.

I am now left wondering which manufacturer in the world offered a/c first ?
Respectfully,
John

Didn't that happen in the '30s with Chrysler?
Title: Re: Factory AC in a 66 H?
Post by: JohnB on November 22, 2021, 09:53:57 AM
Jeff,
Correct, it was the first in dash air offered, my error in detail.
All gets complicated as no consistency played out.

I am now left wondering which manufacturer in the world offered a/c first ?
Respectfully,
John

Packard!
Title: Re: Factory AC in a 66 H?
Post by: shelbydoug on November 22, 2021, 10:10:55 AM
Jeff,
Correct, it was the first in dash air offered, my error in detail.
All gets complicated as no consistency played out.

I am now left wondering which manufacturer in the world offered a/c first ?
Respectfully,
John

Packard!

What year and model? Was it a fan blowing on chunks of ice in the "ice box"?  :o
Title: Re: Factory AC in a 66 H?
Post by: JohnB on November 22, 2021, 04:30:15 PM
Jeff,
Correct, it was the first in dash air offered, my error in detail.
All gets complicated as no consistency played out.

I am now left wondering which manufacturer in the world offered a/c first ?
Respectfully,
John

Packard!

What year and model? Was it a fan blowing on chunks of ice in the "ice box"?  :o

Offered as an option in 1939 for the 1940 modell.

https://carfromjapan.com/article/industry-knowledge/first-cars-with-air-conditioning/

https://thenewswheel.com/when-did-cars-first-get-air-conditioning/



Title: Re: Factory AC in a 66 H?
Post by: Harris Speedster on November 22, 2021, 06:00:55 PM
The one article mentions Kelvinator.
I guess Packard took the components from that companies refrigerator and made the car system?
Makes sense anyway?
Seems that home refrigerators were introduced in the 30's also ?
The 1930's saw record innovations, even AM radio for cars.
Shelbydoug:
funny you mention chunks of ice.
There was a swamp cooler type round cooler that hung from the side window. They did put ice in it and wind force blew the colled air into the car from the outside
Bonus point for that Doug >>>
WOW, we sure have come a long way in our lifetimes.

Title: Re: Factory AC in a 66 H?
Post by: S7MS427 on November 22, 2021, 06:22:54 PM
Shelbydoug:
funny you mention chunks of ice.
There was a swamp cooler type round cooler that hung from the side window. They did put ice in it and wind force blew the colled air into the car from the outside
Bonus point for that Doug >>>
WOW, we sure have come a long way in our lifetimes.
My dad bought one of those for our '58 Country Sedan Wagon for our long trips across the country hen the Army gave him a new assignment.  I don't remember that it worked very well.
Title: Re: Factory AC in a 66 H?
Post by: shelbydoug on November 22, 2021, 06:59:52 PM
The one article mentions Kelvinator.
I guess Packard took the components from that companies refrigerator and made the car system?
Makes sense anyway?
Seems that home refrigerators were introduced in the 30's also ?
The 1930's saw record innovations, even AM radio for cars.
Shelbydoug:
funny you mention chunks of ice.
There was a swamp cooler type round cooler that hung from the side window. They did put ice in it and wind force blew the colled air into the car from the outside
Bonus point for that Doug >>>
WOW, we sure have come a long way in our lifetimes.

Mr. grandmother had a 5 story walk up cold water flat. I remember being dropped off for her to babysit me when we had 1/2 day kindergartens.

She had an icebox that apparently was on the way out because I do remember the refrigerator there.

The old wood burning stove on the stone hearth in the kitchen that was replaced with a gas stove that you had to light with a match.

The creme de la resistance was the "junkie" who would come around in a horse drawn cart.

Seems like another persons dreams now.
Title: Re: Factory AC in a 66 H?
Post by: 6R07mi on November 23, 2021, 01:20:15 PM
Regarding a 65/66 Mustang, I would suggest the only way to document factory A/c is a production marking.

I found this when wiping the core support with detergent, my interpretation is A/C production option during build?

I solicit others with more knowledge to chime in??

regards,

jim p
Title: Re: Factory AC in a 66 H?
Post by: J_Speegle on November 23, 2021, 01:35:14 PM
....I found this when wiping the core support with detergent, my interpretation is A/C production option during build?

I solicit others with more knowledge to chime in??

What plant was the example from, what year and what exterior color was the car originally? Both factors IME come into play for a marking in that location
Title: Re: Factory AC in a 66 H?
Post by: Bob Gaines on November 23, 2021, 04:40:35 PM
Wow this topic has taken a left turn. It started out talking about a 66 GT350 application from the factory. to get back to that first line of discussion ,no there doesn't seem to be any 66 GT350 H or otherwise from the factory except the GT350 convertibles built at the end of 1966 production . I am not referring the decades later built continuation GT350 convertibles.  SA had to get a special variance from Ford to install the AC on those Hipo powered cars so that they would be covered under warranty. Howard P. has the documenting records.  Everything else would have to be later after sale dealer or Owner installed . As mentioned before if it was delivered to the first owner with AC installed then it is considered "AS Delivered" .  There might be some out there but I kind of doubt it. The Hipo required a special crank pulley for the AC . SA had them made out of aluminum at the time . I doubt a dealer would want to mess with it. Given that there might be one out there the burden of proof is on the teller of the tale. At least as it has to do with the Shelby and Mustang concours venues. Others can make up their own mind.   
Title: Re: Factory AC in a 66 H?
Post by: Steve McDonald Formally known as Mcdonas on November 23, 2021, 08:47:17 PM
You know I’d always thought that a/c was standard on all 66’s. It was air conditioned by heat through the right and left vents, plus the power of opening vent windows. Sure it wasn’t cooled air but it was conditioned by the smell of a 289  HiPo with the additional of musical notes of solid lifters
Beside that I never saw an actual  Shelby with “factory A/C”. Hang on units yes, most were Sears or some other aftermarket units
Would love to see photos of any Ford units on a 66 Shelby including the bottom pulley and belt routing with idlers and adjustment pulley