SAAC Forum

Deals and Appeals => Up For Auction => Topic started by: shelbymann1970 on November 24, 2021, 11:07:32 AM

Title: 8T03S187655 68 GT500 vert on BaT
Post by: shelbymann1970 on November 24, 2021, 11:07:32 AM
I'm looking at this car on Bring a Trailer and the seats appear to be comfortweave to me but not the original style shown on thecoralsnake. Is this the repo confortweave(I know comfortweave isn't correct for a vert)? Thanks. Gary

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1968-ford-mustang-shelby-gt500-convertible/?utm_source=transactionalemail&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=bat_tagged_comment#comment-7345268
Title: Re: 8T03S187655 68 GT500 vert on BaT
Post by: 67 GT350 on November 24, 2021, 02:50:03 PM
Nice looking car, not sure about your question, I had that same car (I mean identical). Wonder why with the mention of a big recon, why the yellow lettering?
Title: Re: 8T03S187655 68 GT500 vert on BaT
Post by: shelbymann1970 on November 24, 2021, 03:09:31 PM
Nice looking car, not sure about your question, I had that same car (I mean identical). Wonder why with the mention of a big recon, why the yellow lettering?
The seat fabric. It looks incorrect as not only it is comfortweave but also repo comfortweave. Just asking for clarification on this. Convertibles never got comfortweave on the seats like the FBs did in black.
Title: Re: 8T03S187655 68 GT500 vert on BaT
Post by: shelbydoug on November 24, 2021, 03:33:50 PM
Nice looking car, not sure about your question, I had that same car (I mean identical). Wonder why with the mention of a big recon, why the yellow lettering?
The seat fabric. It looks incorrect as not only it is comfortweave but also repo comfortweave. Just asking for clarification on this. Convertibles never got comfortweave on the seats like the FBs did in black.

I think that you answered your own question. You are correct.

Since when did the sill plates face the interior of the car?

It's a nice clean car with some silly little things wrong with it. I don't understand how the roll bar rake can be wrong? Does it have the right side covers? Huh?
Title: Re: 8T03S187655 68 GT500 vert on BaT
Post by: CharlesTurner on November 24, 2021, 08:26:11 PM
Convertibles should have the regular inserts, not comfortweave.

The car would have benefited from someone that knows '68's to fix all the little easy issues. 
Title: Re: 8T03S187655 68 GT500 vert on BaT
Post by: 69mach351w on November 25, 2021, 07:26:37 AM
Wow, Love the color combo!! 

Super Nice 500  ;)
Title: Re: 8T03S187655 68 GT500 vert on BaT
Post by: Bill on November 25, 2021, 08:58:58 AM
Missing weather seal on drivers door
crumple at base of drivers side of rollbar
incorrectly installed sill plates
Seat fabric

What else does everyone notice?

Bill
Title: Re: 8T03S187655 68 GT500 vert on BaT
Post by: shelbydoug on November 25, 2021, 09:03:10 AM
Missing weather seal on drivers door
crumple at base of drivers side of rollbar
incorrectly installed sill plates
Seat fabric

What else does everyone notice?

Bill

What's with the Shelby unit number in yellow ink on the firewall?
Title: Re: 8T03S187655 68 GT500 vert on BaT
Post by: Tired Sheep on November 25, 2021, 10:27:48 AM
Pillar pads on a late built car?

Asking for a friend
Title: Re: 8T03S187655 68 GT500 vert on BaT
Post by: J_Speegle on November 25, 2021, 02:53:16 PM
What's with the Shelby unit number in yellow ink on the firewall?

Possibly borrowed from another car someone saw on the internet or magazine. Unfortunately a common practice for many and likely someone will see it in this ad and reproduce it on their car or others. Easy to remove or cover if there is no documentation like some other markings
Title: Re: 8T03S187655 68 GT500 vert on BaT
Post by: shelbymann1970 on November 25, 2021, 11:24:05 PM
Missing weather seal on drivers door
crumple at base of drivers side of rollbar
incorrectly installed sill plates
Seat fabric

What else does everyone notice?

Bill
Well another forum member  and I noticed a "few" things. For one the roll bar isn't mounted correctly. I believe the verts are welded in like the FBs but until I shoot by my friends house to see his or someone else comments here I would think it is a big issue. Window cranks. Console gauges, sits  high in the rear, I "like" the license plate screws  :), arm rest plugs missing. wrong a pillar interior light switch, door hinge bolts, seat fabric, dash emblem, tach not calibrated, wrong shifter handle, ignition switch not clocked correctly, hole in A pillar, no screens for speakers. wrong seat belt decals on some, wrong console ash tray, window crank knob is blue, wrong interior fasteners in some areas, wrong wheel and tire size in trunk, trunk light mounted wrong and other things going on with trunk lid, engine bay fasteners, wrong upper and lower control arms, blue overspray is horrible on the underside. I'm know there is more I missed but my main issue is with the roll bar as of now. 
Title: Re: 8T03S187655 68 GT500 vert on BaT
Post by: Tired Sheep on November 26, 2021, 08:04:43 AM
This schizophrenic forum should come to a consensus once and for all if its okay to dissect a car. Especially one that is currently for sale and the current owner did not ask for input on?

Title: Re: 8T03S187655 68 GT500 vert on BaT
Post by: Rukiddin on November 26, 2021, 08:53:19 AM
Think it will crack $200K ? My guess is $210K
Title: Re: 8T03S187655 68 GT500 vert on BaT
Post by: Bill on November 26, 2021, 02:42:48 PM
This schizophrenic forum should come to a consensus once and for all if its okay to dissect a car. Especially one that is currently for sale and the current owner did not ask for input on?

This subforum is for vehicles (Ford powered) found up for sale on the web. It's description in the forum drop down reads as follows:
Up For Auction
The place to list things that are online for Auction or Sale. (eBay, Craig's, private, etc.) They may be your items or just interesting things you have seen. Discussion IS permitted in this Forum.


Does that description leave anything out that needs to be addressed further, if so, I'm not seeing it.


Bill

PS: Just don't make your posts personal, leave them on topic and about the item being sold online.
Title: Re: 8T03S187655 68 GT500 vert on BaT /sold $200K + 5K fee
Post by: Rukiddin on November 26, 2021, 05:57:20 PM
$205K  ;)
Title: Re: 8T03S187655 68 GT500 vert on BaT
Post by: 69mach351w on November 26, 2021, 06:01:46 PM
This schizophrenic forum should come to a consensus once and for all if its okay to dissect a car. Especially one that is currently for sale and the current owner did not ask for input on?
Yea, some cut up a 66 Shelby very bad a few weeks ago and the owner came on and set them straight pretty quick, LOL !!
Title: Re: 8T03S187655 68 GT500 vert on BaT
Post by: Shelby4Life on November 26, 2021, 06:32:33 PM
Strong money for a non KR, no AC, 68 GT500 Rag with a mangled roll bar.
Title: Re: 8T03S187655 68 GT500 vert on BaT
Post by: Milo on November 26, 2021, 07:37:22 PM
Let me get this straight - a non-matching numbers (if it were, they’d surely know and prove it) automatic convertible with some obvious, albeit easy to fix, mistakes sold for a number greater than Hagerty’s valuation of a concours #1 (4-speed) car…

I mean, I’ve always felt these cars were undervalued, but wow. I’d love to hear the more experienced members thoughts on this sale and the overall market conditions of shelbys.
Title: Re: 8T03S187655 68 GT500 vert on BaT
Post by: CharlesTurner on November 26, 2021, 11:59:08 PM
Hard to explain, most of us could only guess as to why the car went that high.  Maybe the color had something to do with it?

I think if anyone looks across the board at early Mustang values (especially fastbacks), it's obvious that the market is quite strong now.  A rising tide floats all boats, so it's logical that the higher value cars like Shelby's would go up also.
Title: Re: 8T03S187655 68 GT500 vert on BaT
Post by: 5s386 on November 27, 2021, 12:11:59 AM
Does the right front top corner, where the apron and radiator support meet, look like a weld? (by the battery) I don't remember my 68 having two holes in the center of the top radiator support.
Title: Re: 8T03S187655 68 GT500 vert on BaT
Post by: Tired Sheep on November 27, 2021, 07:07:06 AM
It appears the support has been changed or modified. It appears to have grinder or cut off wheel marks on the drivers shock tower. The passenger apron is questionable. I don’t see any tilt steering hoses. Would be interesting to see if there’s a can? Both front fenders are service parts. It appears both quarters have been replaced and probably the floor pan. The console is a reproduction, the cheap export brace is hideous.

The detailing on the car is horrible. I have a friend that could find something wrong in almost every picture.  Maybe someone just wants one really badly? It’s pretty and sometimes that’s all it takes. The forum tends to look long term investment and for correctness. Buyers can be careless and have short term outlooks.

It’s also interesting, the door tag doesn’t match the Marti report exactly.  The extra letter on the interior code is there and not on Marti?? 

This car pretty much demands pre restoration pictures. Especially when you have original Shelby parts swapped out on this scale. Bottom line...The quality of the restoration is not a very high standard for a 200k car.

Title: Re: 8T03S187655 68 GT500 vert on BaT
Post by: shelbymann1970 on November 27, 2021, 08:41:27 AM
This schizophrenic forum should come to a consensus once and for all if its okay to dissect a car. Especially one that is currently for sale and the current owner did not ask for input on?
Some ask about a car and some respond. If you have an issue with my post above well it is what it is. To be clear none of this other than the roll bar discussion has been mentioned on the auction. When you sell a car in a public forum expect people to critique it. I am very careful what I post on the actual auctions. After going over my friend's house and "discected it" as his 68 Shelby vert with no interior in it this car at auction would make me run from it on the roll bar alone. Unless someone that is a judge expert can tell me some cars had their roll bars WELDED in wrong something is going on here. Car sold for 200K. Guess comments didn't hurt it at all. We learn more about these cars and hopefully prevent prospective Shelby owners from getting burned by discussing these cars.
Title: Re: 8T03S187655 68 GT500 vert on BaT
Post by: shelbymann1970 on November 27, 2021, 08:44:09 AM
Let me get this straight - a non-matching numbers (if it were, they’d surely know and prove it) automatic convertible with some obvious, albeit easy to fix, mistakes sold for a number greater than Hagerty’s valuation of a concours #1 (4-speed) car…

I mean, I’ve always felt these cars were undervalued, but wow. I’d love to hear the more experienced members thoughts on this sale and the overall market conditions of shelbys.
Roll bars are welded in and not an easy fix. Most of the other flaws are.
Title: Re: 8T03S187655 68 GT500 vert on BaT
Post by: shelbydoug on November 27, 2021, 09:16:23 AM
Let me get this straight - a non-matching numbers (if it were, they’d surely know and prove it) automatic convertible with some obvious, albeit easy to fix, mistakes sold for a number greater than Hagerty’s valuation of a concours #1 (4-speed) car…

I mean, I’ve always felt these cars were undervalued, but wow. I’d love to hear the more experienced members thoughts on this sale and the overall market conditions of shelbys.
Roll bars are welded in and not an easy fix. Most of the other flaws are.

That still needs to be explained to me. I can't imagine how this could happen. The roll bar base can only fit to the floor pan one way?

I think though that Branda sells a replacement bar with no foot pad
firm predetermined mounting location device? (Happy now?)That would make me even wonder if this car is a rebody?
Title: Re: 8T03S187655 68 GT500 vert on BaT
Post by: Tired Sheep on November 27, 2021, 09:36:31 AM
In my opinion, which is always correct to me, you guys are fixated on the trivial. One only has to read the posts to see its a marginal restoration. Just because the restorer didn't reinstall the bar correctly does not reflect on the history of car. That's something no one has mentioned in this thread.

Everyone wants to point out one funny looking tree. Look at the forest!

There are literally dozens of things that are incorrect, why does poor assembly surprise anyone? Seriously it could be fixed in a couple of hours. You can not reverse other things which have been conveyed like replacement quarter panels and other sheet metal parts

There are no "feet" on convertible roll bar. Its just a matter of tacking it in the wrong place after the ends are shoved into the brace at the bottom. It appears the car has a lot of sheet metal replaced.

The "r" word should not be speculated- only mentioned when there is proof. As an esteemed member, you should reprimand yourself.

Hans

Title: Re: 8T03S187655 68 GT500 vert on BaT
Post by: shelbymann1970 on November 27, 2021, 09:58:07 AM
Let me get this straight - a non-matching numbers (if it were, they’d surely know and prove it) automatic convertible with some obvious, albeit easy to fix, mistakes sold for a number greater than Hagerty’s valuation of a concours #1 (4-speed) car…

I mean, I’ve always felt these cars were undervalued, but wow. I’d love to hear the more experienced members thoughts on this sale and the overall market conditions of shelbys.
Roll bars are welded in and not an easy fix. Most of the other flaws are.

That still needs to be explained to me. I can't imagine how this could happen. The roll bar base can only fit to the floor pan one way?

I think though that Branda sells a replacement bar with no foot pad? That would make me even wonder if this car is a rebody?
I took pics of my friend's disassembled car yesterday. The bar is welded into a floor bracket and 2 side brackets on each side.
Title: Re: 8T03S187655 68 GT500 vert on BaT
Post by: shelbymann1970 on November 27, 2021, 10:00:26 AM
In my opinion, which is always correct to me, you guys are fixated on the trivial. One only has to read the posts to see its a marginal restoration. Just because the restorer didn't reinstall the bar correctly does not reflect on the history of car. That's something no one has mentioned in this thread.

Everyone wants to point out one funny looking tree. Look at the forest!

There are literally dozens of things that are incorrect, why does poor assembly surprise anyone? Seriously it could be fixed in a couple of hours. You can not reverse other things which have been conveyed like replacement quarter panels and other sheet metal parts

There are no "feet" on convertible roll bar. Its just a matter of tacking it in the wrong place after the ends are shoved into the brace at the bottom. It appears the car has a lot of sheet metal replaced.

The "r" word should not be speculated- only mentioned when there is proof. As an esteemed member, you should reprimand yourself.

Hans
see my pics-not an easy fix.  most of the other things yes easy fixes. Did someone mention a rebody? I was thinking extensive rust repair if you had to cut out the roll bar. pics A and B I posted show that you could cut out the bar off the brackets  and reweld it into the SAME spots no problem. It would be hard to weld it off location looking at the 3 brackets and how the bar mounts.
Title: Re: 8T03S187655 68 GT500 vert on BaT
Post by: Bob Gaines on November 27, 2021, 11:29:45 AM
If you have a 68 Shelby convertible that has the roll bar exterior cover damaged for one reason or another the typically way to fix it properly is to replace the roll bar with one from another car. Just one possible explanation for roll bar rewelding that doesn't include the "R" word.
Title: Re: 8T03S187655 68 GT500 vert on BaT
Post by: shelbymann1970 on November 27, 2021, 12:11:07 PM
If you have a 68 Shelby convertible that has the roll bar exterior cover damaged for one reason or another the typically way to fix it properly is to replace the roll bar with one from another car. Just one possible explanation for roll bar rewelding that doesn't include the "R" word.
Bob, I looked over the brackets in my friend's car yesterday and saw how I'd take it out if I had to by rubber wheeling the welds(it will not be taken out). Well to me it appears the brackets after taking out the roll bar it would be real hard to weld the new bar in wrong as the brackets provide the alignment unless someone removed the original brackets too. Am I wrong? See my pics above?
Title: Re: 8T03S187655 68 GT500 vert on BaT
Post by: Bob Gaines on November 27, 2021, 12:25:32 PM
If you have a 68 Shelby convertible that has the roll bar exterior cover damaged for one reason or another the typically way to fix it properly is to replace the roll bar with one from another car. Just one possible explanation for roll bar rewelding that doesn't include the "R" word.
Bob, I looked over the brackets in my friend's car yesterday and saw how I'd take it out if I had to by rubber wheeling the welds(it will not be taken out). Well to me it appears the brackets after taking out the roll bar it would be real hard to weld the new bar in wrong as the brackets provide the alignment unless someone removed the original brackets too. Am I wrong? See my pics above?
Don't underestimate what others can or can not do. ;)
Title: Re: 8T03S187655 68 GT500 vert on BaT
Post by: Vance on November 27, 2021, 12:31:44 PM
The comments are pretty interesting to see as I was the seller of this beautiful GT500 on BaT yesterday. I am new to this forum so I am glad to see it provided you all with entertainment and something to talk about. We had a great time and the winning bidder is super happy so that’s most important.
I am in my early 20’s so this has been a great learning experience for me. As my background is mostly Ford GTs, Ferraris, Porsches, and classic BMWs but the older muscle cars have always appealed to me.
In contrast to other cars I have been involved with, I must say it is very unappealing to the next generation of car enthusiasts how quick some of these muscle car guys are to criticize and make bizarre claims online with zero facts. It’s highly speculative. Constructive criticism is excellent and I am always open to learn more, but there has to be a better way to go about this. It would be a lot more fun for everyone if we could just appreciate each other’s like minded passion and build upon the future of the car community.


Vance

Title: Re: 8T03S187655 68 GT500 vert on BaT
Post by: Tired Sheep on November 27, 2021, 12:43:58 PM
Vance,

Just curious what claims you find bizzare?

I cant tell you how many times sellers who just sold cars think the price they received is vindication. It is not.

Do you have pre restoration photos of the car? I will venture to say you cant document a whole lot.

Title: Re: 8T03S187655 68 GT500 vert on BaT
Post by: Tired Sheep on November 27, 2021, 12:52:39 PM
Just looked at those Branda photos...that is not typical of any original 1968 Shelby convertible roll bar installation

We can agree on one thing the moron count is pretty high around here especially since some of the more knowledgeable people have left
Title: Re: 8T03S187655 68 GT500 vert on BaT
Post by: shelbymann1970 on November 27, 2021, 01:14:31 PM
The comments are pretty interesting to see as I was the seller of this beautiful GT500 on BaT yesterday. I am new to this forum so I am glad to see it provided you all with entertainment and something to talk about. We had a great time and the winning bidder is super happy so that’s most important.
I am in my early 20’s so this has been a great learning experience for me. As my background is mostly Ford GTs, Ferraris, Porsches, and classic BMWs but the older muscle cars have always appealed to me.
In contrast to other cars I have been involved with, I must say it is very unappealing to the next generation of car enthusiasts how quick some of these muscle car guys are to criticize and make bizarre claims online with zero facts. It’s highly speculative. Constructive criticism is excellent and I am always open to learn more, but there has to be a better way to go about this. It would be a lot more fun for everyone if we could just appreciate each other’s like minded passion and build upon the future of the car community.

If you are looking to sell a rare or significant Shelby collectible, please get in touch as we are looking to build an impressive Shelby display.

Vance
AS with your comment on the auction of your Shelby  being numbers matching can you explain better than that comment as to what you are referring to(bizarre claims)? Your car here? While another poster mentioned "claims" about your Shelby no claims were made that I have seen. I asked about the seat material to start the post. Then the moderator of this forum  asked "what else do you see". I answered. If you noticed on your auction of this Shelby I posted to a friend about the roll bar fitment(shelbymann70)  and said I would investigate. If you noticed I never posted my response on the auction nor did I ever critique. The only time  sellers will ever not like my response is when they make false claims about a car or another poster does(sellers have friends  ;) ) .Feel free to look at my past comments on auctions.  So while I saw many things wrong other than your roll bar most were easy fixes like I said. I could have posted about your comment "we believe it is matching numbers". You believe? As a dealer you should know whether it is or not. I have seen many auctions on FEs on BaT where a seller was able to get pics of the block numbers if they were there. So welcome to the forum and expect cars to be critiqued from time to time. BTW my friend was interested in your car and has deep pockets hence the investigation I did on the bar for him(wife wondered why I had to go by my other friend's house yesterday with the 68 Shelby Vert).  Gary
Title: Re: 8T03S187655 68 GT500 vert on BaT
Post by: shelbymann1970 on November 27, 2021, 01:15:38 PM
Just looked at those Branda photos...that is not typical of any original 1968 Shelby convertible roll bar installation

We can agree on one thing the moron count is pretty high around here especially since some of the more knowledgeable people have left
I think the Branda bar is made so you can use it in a 68 or 69-70 hence his way of doing it. 69-70s are bolted to the sides. No weld. I've owned a few. Gary
Title: Re: 8T03S187655 68 GT500 vert on BaT
Post by: JohnHouston on November 30, 2021, 11:10:52 AM
It appears the support has been changed or modified. It appears to have grinder or cut off wheel marks on the drivers shock tower. The passenger apron is questionable. I don’t see any tilt steering hoses. Would be interesting to see if there’s a can? Both front fenders are service parts. It appears both quarters have been replaced and probably the floor pan. The console is a reproduction, the cheap export brace is hideous.

The detailing on the car is horrible. I have a friend that could find something wrong in almost every picture.  Maybe someone just wants one really badly? It’s pretty and sometimes that’s all it takes. The forum tends to look long term investment and for correctness. Buyers can be careless and have short term outlooks.

It’s also interesting, the door tag doesn’t match the Marti report exactly.  The extra letter on the interior code is there and not on Marti?? 

This car pretty much demands pre restoration pictures. Especially when you have original Shelby parts swapped out on this scale. Bottom line...The quality of the restoration is not a very high standard for a 200k car.

I'm feeling a little naïve here . . .. no dog in this hunt, but in need of a teachable moment . . .perhaps you can educate me on this . .. How can one tell service replacement fenders from the originals?  And what was the tip off on quarter replacement?  I've certainly seen bad replacement jobs, but nothing jumped out to me on this one.

Many thanks!

John (old but still learning)
Title: Re: 8T03S187655 68 GT500 vert on BaT
Post by: Tired Sheep on November 30, 2021, 11:23:02 AM
Date codes on the front fenders are in the service replacement format. One letter two numbers representing the year.

(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/14-301121112904.png)

Rear quarters look at the attachment in the door jambs, welds are not factory spot welds

Overall this restoration is amateurish, the paint work is particularly distracting

Title: Re: 8T03S187655 68 GT500 vert on BaT
Post by: shelbymann1970 on November 30, 2021, 12:33:00 PM
Tired sheep you went deeper than I did on the car. Thanks for the close up pic and mentioning how fenders are date coded. The lack of paint with gray primer showing is indicative of your thoughts on the paint. Pic 157 is interesting also. Pic 114 shows the other quarter and I cannot comprehend how you could paint that door jamb and not get paint the the out quarter panel lip(still has gray primer) but the recessed area it is welded to had full paint on it? That has me baffled. See pic below. Just expanding on your paint comment here.
Title: Re: 8T03S187655 68 GT500 vert on BaT
Post by: J_Speegle on November 30, 2021, 01:46:10 PM
......................Pic 114 shows the other quarter and I cannot comprehend how you could paint that door jamb and not get paint the the out quarter panel lip(still has gray primer) but the recessed area it is welded to had full paint on it? That has me baffled. See pic below. Just expanding on your paint comment here.

Odd choice of where they taped off the car/repair at one point I would guess and not rolling the spray gun or making a pass to cover the area. Easier to see this on the drivers side picture of the same area above
Title: Re: 8T03S187655 68 GT500 vert on BaT
Post by: shelbymann1970 on November 30, 2021, 02:16:43 PM
......................Pic 114 shows the other quarter and I cannot comprehend how you could paint that door jamb and not get paint the the out quarter panel lip(still has gray primer) but the recessed area it is welded to had full paint on it? That has me baffled. See pic below. Just expanding on your paint comment here.

Odd choice of where they taped off the car/repair at one point I would guess and not rolling the spray gun or making a pass to cover the area. Easier to see this on the drivers side picture of the same area above
I thought the same thing Jeff after posting that they had to have done some rear quarter panel paintwork after the initial but for primer to be in the jamb when you would think just a scuffing of the paint or using rope tape  on the jamb and not painting anything in the jamb would make more sense. Just another car mystery on a process. I had the same issue with a car in the same manner in the door jamb but the area wasn't taped off as the prior owner said the rear quarter was repainted since the resto. I blew some paint into the jamb to make it look better to cover the primer.