Looking for some help/ideas on what to do with a 67 fastback that has an unreadable VIN. Long story short my brother bought a 67 fastback shell in 1987. No parts on it. No title, in PA. Being 22 at the time he never did anything with the title issue. Made the car a roller and had an engine and trans in it. It has sat until now. I started looking into getting a title and discovered the one digit in the consecutive unit number was stamped so bad you cannot read it. You can just see the bottom edge. Both fender aprons are stamped the same way. So now we don't know what the VIN really is. Reached out to Kevin Marty and told them what was going on. When I spoke with them on the phone it sounded like it would be no problem to figure it out knowing what color the car was and what engine was in it. Sent them a picture of the VIN and they instantly said sorry we can't help you. So now I am thinking it's stolen or something. Had the police check all the possible combinations it could be and came up with it is not stolen but no previous registration info on any of them. Not sure what to do now. Don't really want it to end up with some state issued reconstructed VIN tag on it but that might be my only choice.
First off I am not surprised Marti indicated "they" could help and then did not.
Police said that the vehicle was never registered in PA or entire USA based on all the possible combinations it could be?
Finally build that track car?
For some reason I've seen more '67s with front clips then any other year. Easily a dozen or more.
I say just avoid it.
Just a thought or two
Is it worth the investment to purchase ten Marti reports. One for each possible iteration of the VIN. Would the visible clues on the shell possibly assist with matching the shell to a report. I.E. colour or date codes on sheetmetal?
Also, and I don't know how you would go about it, can you get the metal scanned in some way? I am thinking I have seen people discover hidden stampings (due to damage) with some sort of scan
Exactly. Less than $300 and you would have the ability to figure it out.
Quote from: pmustang on November 27, 2021, 09:52:19 AM
Just a thought or two
Is it worth the investment to purchase ten Marti reports. One for each possible iteration of the VIN. Would the visible clues on the shell possibly assist with matching the shell to a report. I.E. colour or date codes on sheetmetal?
Also, and I don't know how you would go about it, can you get the metal scanned in some way? I am thinking I have seen people discover hidden stampings (due to damage) with some sort of scan
Quote from: Bigfoot on November 27, 2021, 07:42:26 AM
First off I am not surprised Marti indicated "they" could help and then did not.
Police said that the vehicle was never registered in PA or entire USA based on all the possible combinations it could be?
They ran all of the combinations and did not come up with any of them being currently registered. I believe they meant in the country.
Quote from: shelbydoug on November 27, 2021, 09:40:12 AM
For some reason I've seen more '67s with front clips then any other year. Easily a dozen or more.
I say just avoid it.
It has the original front clip. Just a poorly stamped VIN from the factory.
Quote from: pmustang on November 27, 2021, 09:52:19 AM
Just a thought or two
Is it worth the investment to purchase ten Marti reports. One for each possible iteration of the VIN. Would the visible clues on the shell possibly assist with matching the shell to a report. I.E. colour or date codes on sheetmetal?
Also, and I don't know how you would go about it, can you get the metal scanned in some way? I am thinking I have seen people discover hidden stampings (due to damage) with some sort of scan
I was considering buying the reports for all of them. As far as I know there are no other hidden VINs , just the front aprons.
If the '67 Registrar is not willing to help you out in determining the Ford number as a potential buyer then I would suggest that there is more to it then you think and just avoid the car altogether.
On my '67, I can't speak for all, the Ford VIN is stamped on both aprons.
Just a thought.... since it is fairly close to the northern border, maybe it originally came out of Canada ?
Also..... isn't there somewhere else on a '67 shell where the factory hid a VIN number for law enforcement ?
I believe he is referring to a non Shelby. Marti has factory records and could easily assist if he wanted to. Ordering the reports could also get him there.
Dave
Quote from: shelbydoug on November 27, 2021, 10:11:44 AM
If the '67 Registrar is not willing to help you out in determining the Ford number as a potential buyer then I would suggest that there is more to it then you think and just avoid the car altogether.
On my '67, I can't speak for all, the Ford VIN is stamped on both aprons.
It belongs to my brother, just trying to get a title.
No door tag clues ?
It was just a shell, no doors.
@1109RWHP
Ok, not to be long winded but:
Stolen vehicle records in NCIC (FBI national records) and CLEAN (PA state records) must be validated annually by the investigating agency or they are purged. I can't remember if there is a maximum amount of time the entry can stay in the data base even if validated. This means it's not impossible for the vehicle to have been stolen at some point, reported and entered in the system, and there still wouldn't be a record of it anymore.
PennDot periodically purges vehicle records if title/registration isn't maintained on the vehicle. Registration plates "go dead" in the system 3 years, I think, after last registration. I can't remember how long the record stays in the system until completely purged.
PennDot participates in a national system called National Motor Vehicle Title Information System, but their records would come from the states and I doubt they'd go back to 1967, you'd have to check. https://vehiclehistory.bja.ojp.gov/
If you have no title, in PA, you can apply for a duplicate (if you are the titled owner) or petition the court in the county you live in to award ownership. You can do this without an attorney, but it's usually easier to get one. Obviously that costs money. I haven't done it myself, but I don't think it's too hard or too expensive. Here is one attorney, near Harrisburg, I found online that specializes in this. (I don't know him and can't vouch for him. I just did a Google search) http://www.vintageautomotive.net/?tag=no-car-title-in-pa
Once you establish legal ownership, you can apply to PennDot for a title. In this situation you may, or may not, need to apply for a modified, specially constructed, or reconstructed title, depending upon what you were going to do with the vehicle. PennDot would determine that.
The unreadable portion of the VIN could be a poor stamping or indicate it was altered. I would think if all the stamped VINs were altered there would be some obvious evidence of that. If it is altered, it will be required by law to have a state issued VIN affixed to ever be titled in PA. If it were established that the VIN was altered, the vehicle could be seized by the police until ownership could be established.
I'd say your choices at this point are talk to a "tag agent" and start the process or speak to an attorney familiar with this sort of thing. Bottom line is you want to make sure it is legally yours before putting any money into it. (that part I do know from personal experience ;) )
It the vin number has no rivet holes at each end then it would not be a Shelby.
Quote from: 1109RWHP on November 27, 2021, 10:01:05 AM
Quote from: pmustang on November 27, 2021, 09:52:19 AM
Just a thought or two
Is it worth the investment to purchase ten Marti reports. One for each possible iteration of the VIN. Would the visible clues on the shell possibly assist with matching the shell to a report. I.E. colour or date codes on sheetmetal?
Also, and I don't know how you would go about it, can you get the metal scanned in some way? I am thinking I have seen people discover hidden stampings (due to damage) with some sort of scan
I was considering buying the reports for all of them. As far as I know there are no other hidden VINs , just the front aprons.
I doubt you would find 10 viable marti reports for what you are looking for. Think about it. It would mean 10 cars built with the same engine and body style as yours in a row? What are the odds? You might even find out there is only 1 car with the viable vin. Gary
To remind others who choose not read from the start that in reply #1 the OP says " Long story short my brother bought a 67 fastback shell in 1987" . It is a regular Mustang shell. It is not implied in anyway that this is/was a Shelby . It is posted in the discussion area rather then under any Shelby heading.