Hi all,
I'm new to SAAC and have had my 1970 GT350 since last March (0F02M482299). A past owner had painted the black hood stripes a gloss black which I know is not correct for black jade cars. What I don't know is if the black used for the stripes should be a matte or a flat black. I keep seeing both being thrown out there. In my limited knowledge of paint I believe there is definitely a difference between the two. A matte has a slight gloss/sheen while flat has none.
Anyone know the definitive answer to this?
Also I'd like to make sure the stripes that were re-done by a previous owner used the correct template. Does anyone know the correct one? I found 2 online and both had different measurements for the stripes.
Attached is a picture of my current glossy stripes.
Appreciate any information anyone can share! Thanks!
Eric
Just make sure u get the pattern that the front tip is about 1 1/2''
I'm interested in what the correct answer is to your question. My '70 GT350 is also black jade and the stripes are also a gloss black. According to my records the car was repainted in 1978. In print I too see that the correct stripe finish should be a flat or matte black, but almost every picture I see of a black jade Shelby, the stripes are glossy. Any shared knowledge on this topic would be appreciated.
Dan
Quote from: Wooahbundy on January 17, 2022, 03:47:54 PM
I'm interested in what the correct answer is to your question. My '70 GT350 is also black jade and the stripes are also a gloss black. According to my records the car was repainted in 1978. In print I too see that the correct stripe finish should be a flat or matte black, but almost every picture I see of a black jade Shelby, the stripes are glossy. Any shared knowledge on this topic would be appreciated.
Dan
I don't want to get into semantics debate but Flat black and Matt black are typically perceived as the same by the car community. It is meant to be non reflective so as to better contrast with the dark but glossy Black Jade.
I rate black in 3 finishes - gloss - satin - flat. The satin color is non reflective but has a little sheen like that used on 65-66 dashes (I think Krylon calls it Semi-flat). Flat has zero sheen and is very hard to keep "flat" even the oil from your hands touching it will leave marks.
Was there some type of bulletin put out from when the VINs were changed and stripes applied?
https://www.amazon.com/Krylon-Spray-Paint-Black-Semi-Flat/dp/B0742N19Y8/ref=sr_1_1?gclid=CjwKCAiAxJSPBhAoEiwAeO_fP0kQvBgqeJrpBueCSjnoeAw_hi3vxaMsshxX8Y3_6wokE0i9Wk6kdhoCz-EQAvD_BwE&hvadid=177785295041&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9031245&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=4404253903754473333&hvtargid=kwd-13464246302&hydadcr=2079_9901513&keywords=krylon+semi+flat+black&qid=1642459069&sr=8-1
Back in the day I found that Rustoleum BBQ black had the right finish for under hood and the interior.
https://www.autozone.com/paint-and-body/specialty-paint/p/rust-oleum-hi-heat-bbq-and-stove-paint-12oz/631973_0_0?cmpid=LIA:US:EN:AD:NL:1000000:GEN:10574827360&gclid=CjwKCAiAxJSPBhAoEiwAeO_fPxpNB83pNkuLrF6HK2M_HeS8e2pgrzZn3LkeqjFZ9hkRaetwDIazShoC80wQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
Thanks for that information regarding flat and matte. I wasn't aware that they are considered the same in the car community. I have some thinking to do. I'm not a true flat black fan since it can be a little hard to maintain. It is probably the reason, like Dan said, that all repainted black jades seem to have glossy stripes. I have to admit the glossy stripe on the black jade looks great. But I would like the exterior original looking. Something for me to think about.
Thanks,
Eric
Quote from: BlackJadeGT350 on January 17, 2022, 05:59:01 PM
Thanks for that information regarding flat and matte. I wasn't aware that they are considered the same in the car community. I have some thinking to do. I'm not a true flat black fan since it can be a little hard to maintain. It is probably the reason, like Dan said, that all repainted black jades seem to have glossy stripes. I have to admit the glossy stripe on the black jade looks great. But I would like the exterior original looking. Something for me to think about.
Thanks,
Eric
Eric not everyone but most typically as I said. I think that the main reason that the stripes get painted glossy is that the people doing it or having it done did not know any better. I know for a fact in many cases I am aware of because I have asked over the years. With no other direction it is intuitive to paint it glossy on a color that is not dark but I don't think a lot of thought typically went into the contrast difficulties of hood stripes on a 70 Black Jade repaint IMO. Basically if it is a lot less then high gloss it would pass and would contrast better too. ;)
Thanks for the insight. Gives me something to consider. As of now I know I wouldn't want to go to a true flat black.. but a lot less glossy I will consider. Wish I could see an example out there painted correctly. If there is a '70 black jade owner out there with a correct flat black stripe I'd love to see a picture if you'd be willing to share.
Eric
When I met Larry Lawrence a short time before he passed away I never thought to ask him what black was used on black jade cars. I asked him about masking but didn't about taping off the screens(he passed away before I could talk to him again as Ed asked me to ask him that). Funny in that my friend Mark Haas and I listened to him tell KK stories and about painting the B9 scoops and the problems he had with them. How he got hired and such. I also wonder if the same paint used on 70 Boss 429 hood scoops was used on the black jade cars. Gary
I found this shot of an A/S car that shows the satin finish on the black. The true flat black has zero reflection.
Those are great old pictures. Seems quite possible KK would use the same black for the 429s.
Quote from: BlackJadeGT350 on January 18, 2022, 10:23:28 PM
Those are great old pictures. Seems quite possible KK would use the same black for the 429s.
Guess your referring to the 70 Boss 429's
What black and where?
Quote from: J_Speegle on January 19, 2022, 09:36:43 PM
Quote from: BlackJadeGT350 on January 18, 2022, 10:23:28 PM
Those are great old pictures. Seems quite possible KK would use the same black for the 429s.
Guess your referring to the 70 Boss 429's
What black and where?
I made a comment that I wondered when Larry painted the black jade hood stripes if he used the same color mix as the paint for the scoops on Boss 429s(1970 of course). But then again after going to lacquer early on for 1969 Boss 429 hood scoops were 70s painted in lacquer? My assumption is that the Shelby hood stipes were painted in enamel.
Quote from: shelbymann1970 on January 20, 2022, 05:48:08 AM
Quote from: J_Speegle on January 19, 2022, 09:36:43 PM
Quote from: BlackJadeGT350 on January 18, 2022, 10:23:28 PM
Those are great old pictures. Seems quite possible KK would use the same black for the 429s.
Guess your referring to the 70 Boss 429's
What black and where?
I made a comment that I wondered when Larry painted the black jade hood stripes if he used the same color mix as the paint for the scoops on Boss 429s(1970 of course). But then again after going to lacquer early on for 1969 Boss 429 hood scoops were 70s painted in lacquer? My assumption is that the Shelby hood stipes were painted in enamel.
Given the front and back open bay doors I don't think Larry is spraying non catalyzed single stage enamel with its long set up time . No doubt a lot of dust drifting in the air through those doors that would land and get stuck in the stripes before the paint dried tack free. My money is on Lacquer paint for the stripes.
Quote from: Bob Gaines on January 20, 2022, 11:54:16 AM
Quote from: shelbymann1970 on January 20, 2022, 05:48:08 AM
Quote from: J_Speegle on January 19, 2022, 09:36:43 PM
Quote from: BlackJadeGT350 on January 18, 2022, 10:23:28 PM
Those are great old pictures. Seems quite possible KK would use the same black for the 429s.
Guess your referring to the 70 Boss 429's
What black and where?
I made a comment that I wondered when Larry painted the black jade hood stripes if he used the same color mix as the paint for the scoops on Boss 429s(1970 of course). But then again after going to lacquer early on for 1969 Boss 429 hood scoops were 70s painted in lacquer? My assumption is that the Shelby hood stipes were painted in enamel.
Given the front and back open bay doors I don't think Larry is spraying non catalyzed single stage enamel with its long set up time . No doubt a lot of dust drifting in the air through those doors that would land and get stuck in the stripes before the paint dried tack free. My money is on Lacquer paint for the stripes.
I know Larry had problems with the enamel on the painted scoops and the long drying time. That is why KK went with lacquer. As a youngster I was told by many painters you could paint enamel over lacquer but NEVER Lacquer over enamel in most cases.
Quote from: shelbymann1970 on January 20, 2022, 03:05:02 PM
Quote from: Bob Gaines on January 20, 2022, 11:54:16 AM
Quote from: shelbymann1970 on January 20, 2022, 05:48:08 AM
Quote from: J_Speegle on January 19, 2022, 09:36:43 PM
Quote from: BlackJadeGT350 on January 18, 2022, 10:23:28 PM
Those are great old pictures. Seems quite possible KK would use the same black for the 429s.
Guess your referring to the 70 Boss 429's
What black and where?
I made a comment that I wondered when Larry painted the black jade hood stripes if he used the same color mix as the paint for the scoops on Boss 429s(1970 of course). But then again after going to lacquer early on for 1969 Boss 429 hood scoops were 70s painted in lacquer? My assumption is that the Shelby hood stipes were painted in enamel.
Given the front and back open bay doors I don't think Larry is spraying non catalyzed single stage enamel with its long set up time . No doubt a lot of dust drifting in the air through those doors that would land and get stuck in the stripes before the paint dried tack free. My money is on Lacquer paint for the stripes.
I know Larry had problems with the enamel on the painted scoops and the long drying time. That is why KK went with lacquer. As a youngster I was told by many painters you could paint enamel over lacquer but NEVER Lacquer over enamel in most cases.
I have heard that too but it apparently still was done. One example is the over the top stripes on the 65/66 Shelby cars that were done were lacquer also.
Quote from: Bob Gaines on January 20, 2022, 04:18:57 PM
Quote from: shelbymann1970 on January 20, 2022, 03:05:02 PM
Quote from: Bob Gaines on January 20, 2022, 11:54:16 AM
Quote from: shelbymann1970 on January 20, 2022, 05:48:08 AM
Quote from: J_Speegle on January 19, 2022, 09:36:43 PM
Quote from: BlackJadeGT350 on January 18, 2022, 10:23:28 PM
Those are great old pictures. Seems quite possible KK would use the same black for the 429s.
Guess your referring to the 70 Boss 429's
What black and where?
I made a comment that I wondered when Larry painted the black jade hood stripes if he used the same color mix as the paint for the scoops on Boss 429s(1970 of course). But then again after going to lacquer early on for 1969 Boss 429 hood scoops were 70s painted in lacquer? My assumption is that the Shelby hood stipes were painted in enamel.
Given the front and back open bay doors I don't think Larry is spraying non catalyzed single stage enamel with its long set up time . No doubt a lot of dust drifting in the air through those doors that would land and get stuck in the stripes before the paint dried tack free. My money is on Lacquer paint for the stripes.
I know Larry had problems with the enamel on the painted scoops and the long drying time. That is why KK went with lacquer. As a youngster I was told by many painters you could paint enamel over lacquer but NEVER Lacquer over enamel in most cases.
I have heard that too but it apparently still was done. One example is the over the top stripes on the 65/66 Shelby cars that were done were lacquer also.
Before I posted I did a quick research and one of the comments was you could do it over "fully cured enamel" but test a small area first(hence my most cases post). I'd think Ford's paint processes back then would lead to fully cured enamel but I'm sure most body shops or KK had curing booths. KK didn't for sure and that is what led to the problems painting B9 hood scoops early on with enamel on fiberglass scoops in 1969. I sure would have wished that I asked Larry if he used lacquer on the stripes but as you mentioned Bob it would have taken a long time to dry/cure in he sprayed enamel.
Quote from: shelbymann1970 on January 21, 2022, 05:21:07 AM
Quote from: Bob Gaines on January 20, 2022, 04:18:57 PM
Quote from: shelbymann1970 on January 20, 2022, 03:05:02 PM
Quote from: Bob Gaines on January 20, 2022, 11:54:16 AM
Quote from: shelbymann1970 on January 20, 2022, 05:48:08 AM
Quote from: J_Speegle on January 19, 2022, 09:36:43 PM
Quote from: BlackJadeGT350 on January 18, 2022, 10:23:28 PM
Those are great old pictures. Seems quite possible KK would use the same black for the 429s.
Guess your referring to the 70 Boss 429's
What black and where?
I made a comment that I wondered when Larry painted the black jade hood stripes if he used the same color mix as the paint for the scoops on Boss 429s(1970 of course). But then again after going to lacquer early on for 1969 Boss 429 hood scoops were 70s painted in lacquer? My assumption is that the Shelby hood stipes were painted in enamel.
Given the front and back open bay doors I don't think Larry is spraying non catalyzed single stage enamel with its long set up time . No doubt a lot of dust drifting in the air through those doors that would land and get stuck in the stripes before the paint dried tack free. My money is on Lacquer paint for the stripes.
I know Larry had problems with the enamel on the painted scoops and the long drying time. That is why KK went with lacquer. As a youngster I was told by many painters you could paint enamel over lacquer but NEVER Lacquer over enamel in most cases.
I have heard that too but it apparently still was done. One example is the over the top stripes on the 65/66 Shelby cars that were done were lacquer also.
Before I posted I did a quick research and one of the comments was you could do it over "fully cured enamel" but test a small area first(hence my most cases post). I'd think Ford's paint processes back then would lead to fully cured enamel but I'm sure most body shops or KK had curing booths. KK didn't for sure and that is what led to the problems painting B9 hood scoops early on with enamel on fiberglass scoops in 1969. I sure would have wished that I asked Larry if he used lacquer on the stripes but as you mentioned Bob it would have taken a long time to dry/cure in he sprayed enamel.
Gary ,if still unsure and since Larry is gone RIP ask any painter who has sprayed lacquer and un catalyzed enamel what he thinks is being used given the open doors and other background look of the spray booth in the picture . ;)
I'd bet on Lacquer just by the issues Larry had painting enamel and the picture I wonder if taken like that for the photo op only. Larry was very young when hired off the Wixom line to paint at KK as they thought he painted at the Wixom facility when he was hired. Someone said "hey, I know a painter who works at the Wixom plant". Well Larry was painting motor cycle tanks with his dad at the time as a side job IIRC. LOL
Are the paint booth doors just opened for the photos? Enamel was single stage back then. There were different mixes of solvent for use in different temps. Catylist came about with the Synthetic Enamels (also for different temp ranges). Ford had a controlled enviroment and baked the cars. Spraying light coats of lacquer over baked enamel (or a few years old garage job) usually works. The thin coats let the solvent flash off before it can eat into the enamel. A heavy coat may cause either to lift. Prepping fresh glass parts is tricky even though wet sanded and wiped down the glass could still be emitting fumes that cause enamel to be effected due to its slow cure time. Lacquer would help reduce that because it will blend better with the fiberglass solvents such as acetone. Or were these parts made by the chopped glass heat cured in male/female molds method? Chrysler had to buy back a bunch of the early Viper coupes because they got the FG mix wrong and it emitted fumes in the interior and caused the glue holding interior parts to fail.
I ended up getting my stripes painted flat black. They look fantastic. I liked the glossy before but this looks way better on the black jade. Now I know why they originally had them flat for black jade cars.
Eric
^^ Bitchin' looking GT350, sir! I agree that the flat black stripes make it extra sharp.
Thank you very much!
Quote from: BlackJadeGT350 on February 15, 2022, 09:03:00 PM
I ended up getting my stripes painted flat black. They look fantastic. I liked the glossy before but this looks way better on the black jade. Now I know why they originally had them flat for black jade cars.
Eric
Looks great! Nicely done.
Love the contrast - gorgeous car!
- Phillip
Quote from: Side-Oilers on February 15, 2022, 10:02:43 PM
^^ Bitchin' looking GT350, sir! I agree that the flat black stripes make it extra sharp.
+1. Nice.
I appreciate all the nice comments. I really went back-and-forth on the decision of repainting them. Ended up being very glad I did.
Before and after photos.