SAAC Forum

The Cars => 1969-1970 Shelby GT350/500 => Topic started by: corbins on April 15, 2022, 10:32:30 AM

Title: Help !! I hate electrical
Post by: corbins on April 15, 2022, 10:32:30 AM
Ok, another issue. Doors closed .. connect battery and instantly all the interior lights, side markers and rear tail ight come on. Not Head lights.  I have disconnected the brake light switch, no change, disconnected the turn signal switch harness, no change, just put on a brand new nos HL switch, no change !  Driving me nuts !
Anyone have any ideas? suggestions? known causes, solutions ? Guesses ? Exorcists ?

As always thanks a lot !!
Steve
Title: Re: Help !! I hate electrical
Post by: Coralsnake on April 15, 2022, 10:38:33 AM
I believe you need to check your switches. Switch in door jambs and console switch sound like the places to start
Title: Re: Help !! I hate electrical
Post by: Lincoln tech on April 15, 2022, 10:52:06 AM
Sounds like short to power, but where? did you pull any fuses ? wiring diagram would be nice to look at to see what those circuits have in common.
Title: Re: Help !! I hate electrical
Post by: Rukiddin on April 15, 2022, 11:19:36 AM
Unplug headlight switch . Any lights on? Any aftermarket gadgets,like anti-theft ?
Title: Re: Help !! I hate electrical
Post by: corbins on April 15, 2022, 08:19:53 PM
Thanks guys! I have not yet tried pulling fuses, guess it would help Id the circuit. Door switches are new , not that means anything. I'll disconnect the HL switch tomorrow and see what happens. I do have all the wiring schematics, but to this point they have not been of much help, mainly because I'm a DA. Its almost like there's a backfeed of some sort ... really makes no sense to me . And no, no additional stuff.
 I do so hate electrical issues/problems !!
Title: Re: Help !! I hate electrical
Post by: Lincoln tech on April 15, 2022, 08:33:23 PM
When did you notice the problem? what was done to the car ? Don't believe that door jamb switches are at fault since interior lights are a separate circuit from park lamps. In my years of fixing cars I have seen crushed wire harnesses that would cause same problem your'e having due to human error, bad Ground will also cause that type of problem . Are the light that come on Bright or dim? if they are dim I would start looking at grounds, take your time you'll find it.
Title: Re: Help !! I hate electrical
Post by: Coralsnake on April 15, 2022, 08:37:29 PM
Did you change the turn signal switch?
Title: Re: Help !! I hate electrical
Post by: trotrof1 on April 15, 2022, 09:10:49 PM
The general plan when narrowing down electrical problems is to separate the circuits affected a section at a time. Using the schematic find a point in the harness to disconnect and proceed by eliminating a portion at a time. Sometimes the problem can be as simple as a bulb not installed correctly in a socket.
Title: Re: Help !! I hate electrical
Post by: Lincoln tech on April 16, 2022, 07:53:14 AM
The general plan when narrowing down electrical problems is to separate the circuits affected a section at a time. Using the schematic find a point in the harness to disconnect and proceed by eliminating a portion at a time. Sometimes the problem can be as simple as a bulb not installed correctly in a socket.
  Or a screw through the harness.
Title: Re: Help !! I hate electrical
Post by: Bill on April 16, 2022, 08:16:37 AM
Ok, another issue. Doors closed .. connect battery and instantly all the interior lights, side markers and rear tail ight come on. Not Head lights.  I have disconnected the brake light switch, no change, disconnected the turn signal switch harness, no change, just put on a brand new nos HL switch, no change !  Driving me nuts !
Anyone have any ideas? suggestions? known causes, solutions ? Guesses ? Exorcists ?

As always thanks a lot !!
Steve

Steve,

    Have you pulled the dash/gauge package off yet to look for previous owner melted/hacked wires and modifications?

I do most certainly feel your pain, as we trace and repair/replace such items on my 70 Shelby convertible. Stopped at the shop this past week and snapped a quick picture of the progress. Have just about everything sorted electric wise, NOS replacement turn signal switch is a bit quirky, and clock is out being restored, otherwise, everything but the AM side of the radio now works, hand written note shoved in dash actually pointed that item out, go figure. Not important, I'll send that out at a later date if I feel the need to listen to southern gospel...LOL
(https://www.saacforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=18721.0;attach=82013;image)
Bill
Title: Re: Help !! I hate electrical
Post by: Lincoln tech on April 16, 2022, 09:19:32 AM
Self powered test light ( the one with a regular old style bulb, not the electronic type or neon ) is the best tool to check for that type of problem,just follow the circuit in question to see where the power is coming from. What does it take to light a bulb? ==== voltage and ground -Yes? Those cars have very basic wiring circuits that should be fairly easy to diag. Now try the same with newer cars that have 10 or more electronic modules that are connected together and constantly talk to each other  :-\
Title: Re: Help !! I hate electrical
Post by: corbins on April 16, 2022, 09:51:29 AM
Did you change the turn signal switch?
No, not replaced.... but I did disconnect the wiring harness to it and still get all lights on when battery is connected.
When the lights come on they are bright, not dim. In fact it looks like the brake lights are on in the rear.
This harness has had some obvious repairs or re-wrapping at least.
Thanks for all the help !  Still digging :(
Title: Re: Help !! I hate electrical
Post by: 67350#1242 on April 16, 2022, 10:06:07 AM
Unplug one door jamb switch at a time and see if any change.
Title: Re: Help !! I hate electrical
Post by: Lincoln tech on April 16, 2022, 10:37:37 AM



 Start looking at anything that doesn't look factory, wires are color coded make sure they match.
Title: Re: Help !! I hate electrical
Post by: PR on April 16, 2022, 11:49:42 AM
I had all kinds of issues with my 69, I called Pete (coralsnake) and bought a complete wiring harness front to back and now Everything work perfectly, just a thought
Title: Re: Help !! I hate electrical
Post by: 67 GT350 on April 16, 2022, 02:12:16 PM
I had an issue on my Boss with turn signals blowing a fuse. What I found was weird. (maybe no connection here) When the rear bumper was installed, the license light wire was under the bracket, over time (bumps) the bracket cut into the wire, I guess somehow that was it, fixed it and no problems. Wires are demons in cars.
Title: Re: Help !! I hate electrical
Post by: gt350shelb on April 17, 2022, 08:28:06 AM
unplug wires behind radio to fuse panel pigtails   might have interior light pluged into constant 12 v pigtail back there
 
Title: Re: Help !! I hate electrical
Post by: corbins on April 17, 2022, 08:22:57 PM
unplug wires behind radio to fuse panel pigtails   might have interior light pluged into constant 12 v pigtail back there
Thanks maybe.... but all the exterior running lights come on as well

Quote
I had all kinds of issues with my 69, I called Pete (coralsnake) and bought a complete wiring harness front to back and now Everything work perfectly, just a thought.

I sure wish owner would spring for that option, I've purchased several from him as well with great success.
Title: Re: Help !! I hate electrical
Post by: corbins on April 20, 2022, 10:44:27 AM
Update.... no real luck so far tracking down this issue, BUT... i have discovered that when I disconnect the 10ga black wire of the fog light harness from the positive side of the solenoid, the lights DO go out. Should this wire go to the junction block instead ??
Title: Re: Help !! I hate electrical
Post by: Bill on April 20, 2022, 11:48:03 AM
Update.... no real luck so far tracking down this issue, BUT... i have discovered that when I disconnect the 10ga black wire of the fog light harness from the positive side of the solenoid, the lights DO go out. Should this wire go to the junction block instead ??

Are you working with all original harnesses?
I ask as 10+ years ago, working on a replacement of my center console gauge, I ran across a similar issue. Went through everything, sat down in the passenger seat and fixated on the wiring harness and plug for a moment, not really realizing at first that my subconscious was fixated on two wire colors switched in the rubber plug assembly leading from console to the dash harness. Finally saw it for my conscious self, that the two wires going from harness to harness were not lined up color wise. A simple switch (hidden splice), and all of a sudden, everything worked as it should.

Just food for thought and to give you another place to double check, even if the harnesses are original, somewhere along it's history, a wire or two might have been switched by mistake.

Hope you find this helpful.

Bill
Title: Re: Help !! I hate electrical
Post by: Lincoln tech on April 20, 2022, 01:01:39 PM
Update.... no real luck so far tracking down this issue, BUT... i have discovered that when I disconnect the 10ga black wire of the fog light harness from the positive side of the solenoid, the lights DO go out. Should this wire go to the junction block instead ??
I do believe that junction block is hot all the time at least it is in my 68 , if you connect that wire to it same thing will happen, try it .
Title: Re: Help !! I hate electrical
Post by: Bob Gaines on April 20, 2022, 03:01:05 PM
Update.... no real luck so far tracking down this issue, BUT... i have discovered that when I disconnect the 10ga black wire of the fog light harness from the positive side of the solenoid, the lights DO go out. Should this wire go to the junction block instead ??
I do believe that junction block is hot all the time at least it is in my 68 , if you connect that wire to it same thing will happen, try it .
All items that draw power are typically attached to the terminal block. The positive side of the solenoid feeds power through the amp gauge and goes to the terminal  block. So yes the terminal block is hot. When the amp gauge detects current drain or charge the needle moves appropriately +or - .
Title: Re: Help !! I hate electrical
Post by: Shelbypat on April 27, 2022, 07:09:12 PM
Bulbs with 2 elements. When 1 touch the other one inside, it can cause freegame like you have.

Best of luck
Patrick
Title: Re: Help !! I hate electrical
Post by: corbins on April 27, 2022, 07:42:37 PM
thanks everyone for the suggestions. I have pulled the instrument insert and checked all its wiring and everything seems to be good. The owner is coming tomorrow and we'll keep following these suggestions. Hoping something is just plugged into a wrong place .
Title: Re: Help !! I hate electrical
Post by: shelbymann1970 on April 28, 2022, 12:29:56 PM
Bulbs with 2 elements. When 1 touch the other one inside, it can cause freegame like you have.

Best of luck
Patrick
I had that problem with my 68 Shelby I bought as a basket case. When I installed the door light housing on the pass door  it had a bulb in it from the prior owners. So when everything was wired up and I opened the doors I kept blowing fuses then  I isolated it down to my last fuse and the pass door light wire. Pulled the bulb out and shook my head...
Title: Re: Help !! I hate electrical
Post by: corbins on April 28, 2022, 07:21:08 PM
FU - so today we discover that the console wiring harness has had a new (replacement) 4 prong plug put on with some very sketchy soldering done. Will order a new one.
The other issue we discovered is that the fog light harness under dash plug may have a black and a black with yellow tracer wires reversed, the do not match up to the dash harness plug in the correct order. We are awaiting a Disher call back to verify this aspect.
Title: Re: Help !! I hate electrical
Post by: Bob Gaines on April 28, 2022, 09:37:43 PM
The 69/70 toggle switch plugs are notorious for being replaced and the source of problems. If not plugged in thoroughly and completely they will heat up and sometimes melt which requires replacement of the plug and sometimes more if catastrophic electrical fire happens. 
Title: Re: Help !! I hate electrical
Post by: Bill on April 28, 2022, 09:56:47 PM
FU - so today we discover that the console wiring harness has had a new (replacement) 4 prong plug put on with some very sketchy soldering done. Will order a new one.
The other issue we discovered is that the fog light harness under dash plug may have a black and a black with yellow tracer wires reversed, the do not match up to the dash harness plug in the correct order. We are awaiting a Disher call back to verify this aspect.

A lot can happen under multiple owner situations. I just about pulled my hair out recently dealing with the main dash harness is 2642, a combination of my bad back, and eyesight issues finally had me drop it off at a restoration shop a month or so ago. They dove into the dash-electrical issues where I physically could not. Stopped up to see the car before the holidays and was shown that they found some poorly done non factory/shelby splices and enough melted/shorted wires, that a new "correct" harness was ordered. Once they are done with that, they will take care of the leaking "rebuilt" carb, and perhaps I'll have it on the road some time this summer. Irritating yes, but at least I know when it comes back, that everything will be as it should. As I stated earlier, sometimes you just need to take a step back, review every little detail to find the items that need fixing or replacing.

Hang in there.

Bill
Title: Re: Help !! I hate electrical
Post by: corbins on May 04, 2022, 02:47:35 PM
Lord ....this is getting painful
Got a new console harness. Is anyone willing to verify my re-wire work? Old harness had been tampered with and some of the wire colors changed. I THINK I have this correct, see pics .  Thanks
Title: Re: Help !! I hate electrical
Post by: corbins on May 05, 2022, 08:56:26 AM
Comeon now :) somebody knows if this is correct . Help a brother out :)
Title: Re: Help !! I hate electrical
Post by: Coralsnake on May 05, 2022, 09:37:07 AM
You need to do a search, I have posted those pictures several times
Title: Re: Help !! I hate electrical
Post by: Coralsnake on May 05, 2022, 09:40:24 AM
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/8-130620110500.jpeg)
Title: Re: Help !! I hate electrical
Post by: shelbymann1970 on May 05, 2022, 09:40:48 AM
Comeon now :) somebody knows if this is correct . Help a brother out :)
I have these in a file at work. 
Title: Re: Help !! I hate electrical
Post by: Coralsnake on May 05, 2022, 09:41:08 AM
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/8-130620110522.jpeg)
Title: Re: Help !! I hate electrical
Post by: Coralsnake on May 05, 2022, 09:42:22 AM
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/8-130620110540.jpeg)
Title: Re: Help !! I hate electrical
Post by: Coralsnake on May 05, 2022, 09:43:27 AM
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/8-130620110635.jpeg)
Title: Re: Help !! I hate electrical
Post by: TA Coupe on May 05, 2022, 05:31:23 PM
Talk about a bundle of 🐍 🐍 🐍

         Roy
Title: Re: Help !! I hate electrical
Post by: corbins on May 05, 2022, 07:30:15 PM
Ok...thanks guys !! Looks like I got them all in correct positions at least. Plugged everything in and NO CHANGE ! All running, parking and tail lights still coming on as soon as battery is connected .
Crazy part is that there are NO fuses in the fuse box !!  Where the F are they getting power ???  Guess we'll keep digging :(

So I just went out and disconnected the fuse block completely. Hooked up battery, No interior or frt running lights ,but rear side markers and tail lights still coming on !  This is frigging crazy !!
Title: Re: Help !! I hate electrical
Post by: TA Coupe on May 05, 2022, 08:32:33 PM
I don't know if your car even has one but if it does try a new emergency flasher fuse. Or just pull it and see what happens.

         Roy
Title: Re: Help !! I hate electrical
Post by: Bill on May 05, 2022, 08:48:34 PM
Ok...thanks guys !! Looks like I got them all in correct positions at least. Plugged everything in and NO CHANGE ! All running, parking and tail lights still coming on as soon as battery is connected .
Crazy part is that there are NO fuses in the fuse box !!  Where the F are they getting power ???  Guess we'll keep digging :(

So I just went out and disconnected the fuse block completely. Hooked up battery, No interior or frt running lights ,but rear side markers and tail lights still coming on !  This is frigging crazy !!
Have you confirmed that both sides (IE: both connectors when they are plugged in) of the "4 port" connector have the same wiring color combinations coming out of them. More concerned with the 3 female/1 male 4 port connector at this point, but maybe check the others while you are at it.
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/8-130620110540.jpeg)
Title: Re: Help !! I hate electrical
Post by: corbins on May 05, 2022, 09:39:16 PM
Bill, we have discovered that the yellow/black tracer and the Black are in fact crossed in the new fog light harness that goes to the engine bay. Discussed with Pete , he indicated that it was a common issue with these harnesses, but makes no difference . 
Rear lights getting power with the fuse block completely unplugged.
Title: Re: Help !! I hate electrical
Post by: Bill on May 06, 2022, 04:02:23 AM

Rear lights getting power with the fuse block completely unplugged.

If memory serves me correctly, I believe that the AMP circuit is the only live feed that would bypass the fuse block. That would be the first thing I would be tracing at this point in time. Again, per my earlier post above, I do feel your frustrations.


Bill
Title: Re: Help !! I hate electrical
Post by: Coralsnake on May 06, 2022, 06:02:04 AM
If in some way you believe its a harness I sent you, please feel free to return it and I will replace it or refund your money.
Title: Re: Help !! I hate electrical
Post by: corbins on May 06, 2022, 06:30:38 AM
If in some way you believe its a harness I sent you, please feel free to return it and I will replace it or refund your money.
Not at all Pete, you discussed with owner, and if those wire colors being reversed make no difference , we're on to other things. We'll find it eventually, probably something stupid..
Title: Re: Help !! I hate electrical
Post by: Coralsnake on May 06, 2022, 06:32:08 AM
Just want you to know I stand behind any wiring I sell.
Title: Re: Help !! I hate electrical
Post by: Bill on May 06, 2022, 08:19:51 AM
Just want you to know I stand behind any wiring I sell.

Pete,

   Every harness I've purchased from you for one of my cars has been top quality and I'm constantly pointing people to you for theirs.

Bill
Title: Re: Help !! I hate electrical
Post by: Gregory177 on May 06, 2022, 08:25:36 AM
This is the new fog light connector. The wire color is reversed in connector.  Not sure if this matters or not .
Title: Re: Help !! I hate electrical
Post by: Lincoln tech on May 06, 2022, 08:53:45 AM
Did you try that test light I was talking about ????
Title: Re: Help !! I hate electrical
Post by: corbins on May 06, 2022, 07:32:30 PM
Just want you to know I stand behind any wiring I sell.
I surely know that :) Thanks
Title: Re: Help !! I hate electrical
Post by: highland green on May 07, 2022, 11:33:03 AM
I know how you are feeling. Imo, I would replace the wiring in the engine compartment, the voltage regulator and solenoid with known good replacements, then the dimer switch on the floor.Or use a new harness from Pete, not hard to install.Good luck,
Title: Re: Help !! I hate electrical
Post by: Lincoln tech on May 07, 2022, 12:02:51 PM
Keep replacing parts , eventually you might fix it  :P
Title: Re: Help !! I hate electrical
Post by: corbins on May 07, 2022, 07:50:19 PM
VR, Solinoid, engine bay harness, console harness all new. We'll just have to keep testing and try to complete a process of elimination till we stumble on whats causing this I guess.
Title: Re: Help !! I hate electrical
Post by: Lincoln tech on May 07, 2022, 08:32:45 PM
Again,you need to locate where the power that is supplied to marker light circuit first,once you get that fixed ,the interior light problem may also go away. Don't be afraid to cut suspect wires to see if problem goes away ( they can be easily reattached ) You have a short to power ,somewhere wire that is hot all the time is somehow connected to circuits affected ( someone spliced the wrong wires,smashed harness,even as I said before screw through harness ) take a closer look and open anything that doesn't look factory, another thing you can try is wiggle test harnesses, connect the battery and while someone else is watching the lights start moving harnesses until that someone yells out that they flickered or went out , do this slowly. Don't just concentrate on front of the car , check harnesses under carpets , trunk etc. Good luck.
Title: Re: Help !! I hate electrical
Post by: corbins on May 08, 2022, 03:28:04 PM
Thanks all... we have narrowed it down a bit. With the fuse block disconnected, we're still getting power to the rear. Gonna take a close look at that harness tomorrow to try and determine where it getting power.
Any and all suggestions are most welcomed :)
Steve