Is it possible that they made more than one 1968 Shelby GT500EXP? One just recently ran across the auction block, but was a 'No Sale'.
Quote from: BGlover67 on May 25, 2018, 01:40:47 PM
Is it possible that they made more than one 1968 Shelby GT500EXP? One just recently ran across the auction block, but was a 'No Sale'.
People have made tribute ,clones, etc of the one Green Hornet for decades.
Ah ...no. All the serial numbers are known. The Green Hornet is currently undergoing a restoration. I,
I'm told it will be more historically accurate.
Now, it is possible one of the other known cars may have carried that designation. But, I can tell you it has not been up for auction.
Mr Gaines has the best conclusion...
It is a afterthought
I've been speaking with a very nice gentleman who believes that there were more than one made at the same time, and of course he has one. A very hard thing to prove, but there are some very interesting details about the car that could make you question it. Still, our '68 registrar would certainly have some information about that if it were true, right?
Well, it's like when anyone asks me about how many Shelbys were made and are still around, I always give the same answer there are more today than were ever produced.
Yes the Registrar would know.
We havent said it lately, but extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.
If he wants to prove it, I suggest starting with a Marti report. I would love to know more details.
Surprisingly, It's really not hard to prove. There are engineering inventories with lists of serial numbers. So, you cant really just say you have one, without paperwork. The engineers that built the special cars had to track them.
I'm quite certain he will not have that documentation.
Is it posibbly the black coupe? Shelby had that car built for charity much later. It was long after the vintage cars were done.
It should be considered a continuation car.
Quote from: Coralsnake on May 25, 2018, 08:50:04 PM
Is it posibbly the black coupe? Shelby had that car built for charity much later. It was long after the vintage cars were done.
It should be considered a continuation car.
The black coupe? I can sense a teaching moment is in order.
Aka, the "Black Hornet". It was built in 2002 as a tribute to the 1968 Green Hornet.
A lame attempt to capitalize on the past. I have seen some indications more than one may have been built.
Shelby didnt miss an opportunity to make a nickel
I know that both Shelby American and Ford recycled parts on their cars rather have to make them up from scratch whenever possible. So can anyone tell me where they got the parts for the independent rear suspension on the original Green Hornet? There's a pretty nice article here about the proposed use of an IRS on all Mustangs and then on the '65 GT350R's:
http://performance.ford.com/enthusiasts/newsroom/2016/03/the-inside-story-of-how-an-irs-made-for-mustang-won-le-mans.html
It never got utilized of course, but it did make it onto the GT40 efforts in '67. Were all these made by Holman Moody as a limited run or something? The car I was looking at that is claimed to be another 'found' GT500EXP had a portion of an IRS in boxes in the trunk.
I would suppose the next logical step would be tributes of tributes, clones of clones and replicas of replicas
I dont think the source of the original IRS is known.
I might suggest you have this fine gentleman contact the people currently restring the Green Hornet.
I am very suspect, until he comes around with a lot more information.
Quote from: Coralsnake on May 27, 2018, 10:41:43 AM
I dont think the source of the original IRS is known.
I might suggest you have this fine gentleman contact the people currently restring the Green Hornet.
I am very suspect, until he comes around with a lot more information.
Pete, I totally understand, and I'm very suspect too. But it is interesting to pursue this. I've already learned so much more about the EXP than I ever knew before. Thanks!
Quote from: BGlover67 on May 27, 2018, 10:20:25 AM
I know that both Shelby American and Ford recycled parts on their cars rather have to make them up from scratch whenever possible. So can anyone tell me where they got the parts for the independent rear suspension on the original Green Hornet? There's a pretty nice article here about the proposed use of an IRS on all Mustangs and then on the '65 GT350R's:
http://performance.ford.com/enthusiasts/newsroom/2016/03/the-inside-story-of-how-an-irs-made-for-mustang-won-le-mans.html
It never got utilized of course, but it did make it onto the GT40 efforts in '67. Were all these made by Holman Moody as a limited run or something? The car I was looking at that is claimed to be another 'found' GT500EXP had a portion of an IRS in boxes in the trunk.
I believe the first time around when the Green Hornet was restored that the IRS was MIA ;) . The restorer said he used parts taken from the IRS of a Thunderbird and made them work.
Not to high-jack the thread but are there any updates, photos, info,etc on the restoration of the Green Hornet?
Would love to see some in-progress photos etc. Who is doing the resto? :)
Quote from: BGlover67 on May 27, 2018, 11:06:28 AM
Quote from: Coralsnake on May 27, 2018, 10:41:43 AM
I dont think the source of the original IRS is known.
I might suggest you have this fine gentleman contact the people currently restring the Green Hornet.
I am very suspect, until he comes around with a lot more information.
Pete, I totally understand, and I'm very suspect too. But it is interesting to pursue this. I've already learned so much more about the EXP than I ever knew before. Thanks!
The "big deal" with the original is the "hub assembly". It was done at a time when except for the Corvette, no US manufacturers would do anything with an American IRS.
The source would almost have to come out of a European car to simplify and expedite things but it sure could have been milled out of alloy billet.
Certainly Miles wouldn't have patience for that and probably would have got a Jag rear out of a local junk yard and fit it into one of his "coupes".
Sometimes I hear that was a Falcon. Sometimes a Mustang. Now someone suggested it was in one of the mechanics Rancheros?
Maybe it belonged to one of the strippers at one of the strip joints down the road?
The suspension arms are just made up of DOM (drawn over mandrel) steel tube like is used on motorcyle frames welded to bushing sockets. Probably 3/16" thick wall. That's what I use but other wall thicknesses are readily available from steel suppliers.
It isn't any mystery.
Besides that, the hard part from the engineering standpoint was getting the lengths of them to work with the "stock mounting locations" that they wanted to use. That's where Claus Arnig came in with the "Ford computer".
That thing must have been amazing to watch work with all of the IBM punch cards they had to use to make it work?
I don't think anyone has identified the hub assembly itself such as coming from Jaguar, etc., but I may be wrong on that. Ask Dwayne. It's like he dedicated his life to reproducing the thing accurately.
The rap against the IRS was that several shops built and tried them including Mark Donahue and Roger Penske when they were running the Camaro. Virtually EVERYONE said it was a waste of time since the cars weren't even a second a lap faster around a track.
As far as the "Green Hornet" restoration shop taking stamped steel control arms off of an IRS T-bird or even a current production vehicles is a terrible idea.
That stuff is so thin and cheaply made you are risking life and limb. The arms twist and bend like pretzels. They are really garbage and to put any kind of a high power drive line through them is dumber then the manufacturers are, which is pretty dumb.
The original Fred Goodell design most likely resembled Carling's reproduced design. The concept is certainly the same and the pick up points depend on the Mustang chassis, and those didn't vary.
No stamped steel arms in that. All DOM thick wall steel tubing.
The cool thing with that "original Ford design" were the pin drive knock off wheels that were designed for it BUT so far, I haven't seen any of those wheels on a retro fitted car. Not yet. ;D
As soon as I get pics, I will share.
The Hornet's IRS is being remade by Duane Carling. I spent some time talking with Duane and he assures me that he has the original Klaus Arning design for the IRS that would have been used in the Hornet. As far as current project photos, we are limited to what we can share at this time. The car has been professionally photgraphed, videoed and documented from the time it rolled into the shop. There will be several articles released soon about the entire build. There will be specifc detailed articles about the engine and the Conelec EFI, the paint and body and also the IRS. The car will be unveiled at the MCACN show in November. So make plans to be there and check it out. I can say for sure this will not be a trailer queen. Craig dirves his cars hard... He took me for a ride a few weeks ago in a SCJ convert that that I won't soon forget.
Quote from: BGlover67 on May 25, 2018, 01:40:47 PM
Is it possible that they made more than one 1968 Shelby GT500EXP? One just recently ran across the auction block, but was a 'No Sale'.
Craig Jackson is the current owner of the Green Hornet. Ye some time ago he did run it across the block where it did not meet reserve. No surprise there. As Pete said is is currently being restored to higher standards/authenticity than ever before. I hear the fuel injection will be working too!
Quote from: billups67 on May 29, 2018, 11:08:16 PM
The Hornet's IRS is being remade by Duane Carling. I spent some time talking with Duane and he assures me that he has the original Klaus Arning design for the IRS that would have been used in the Hornet. As far as current project photos, we are limited to what we can share at this time. The car has been professionally photgraphed, videoed and documented from the time it rolled into the shop. There will be several articles released soon about the entire build. There will be specifc detailed articles about the engine and the Conelec EFI, the paint and body and also the IRS. The car will be unveiled at the MCACN show in November. So make plans to be there and check it out. I can say for sure this will not be a trailer queen. Craig dirves his cars hard... He took me for a ride a few weeks ago in a SCJ convert that that I won't soon forget.
I'm certainly not the expert here on this subject BUT as I recall in the interview that Fred Goodell did for SAAC (maybe 10 years ago) he referred to "his" design for the "IRS" in that car.
How much variation there is, is probably in the hub/carrier and I think I recall Goodell referring to a "modified Ford 9" 'pumpkin' "?
Considering there are no known surviving pictures of it, going with Duane's is a great choice. He is "THE" man on the IRS now. I don't think anyone would challenge his knowledge of the subject.
Pete Brock didn't.
There are going to be very few who would know the differences between the two now.
I think there are pictures, see Colin Comer's book
Quote from: Coralsnake on May 31, 2018, 07:34:57 AM
I think there are pictures, see Colin Comer's book
A book? Sure. I have a book. Maybe two in fact? Not that one though.
Maybe YOU could post them? ;D
Maybe Colin will, he is on the forum!
Quote from: Coralsnake on May 31, 2018, 09:44:04 AM
Maybe Colin will, he is on the forum!
Does he know the secret to posting pictures?
Posting pictures really isn't that hard these days.
1) Click on the 'Gallery' heading at the top. Then go to 'Add Picture'. Then pick the bottom choice 'User Gallery'.
2) Under 'Select Gallery' choose 'My Gallery'. The click the box 'Add Picture'. It will bring you to a new page.
3) Add a title, a description if you wish and click the 'Browse' box to upload your image. Then click 'Ad Image' box. Then click on your saved image and copy the BB code.
4) Past that code in your forum post and the image will magically appear. ;D
Here is a link to some history of the '68 EXP 500 in a past article in Hemmings. https://www.hemmings.com/magazine/mus/2006/09/EXP-500---1968-Shelby-Mustang/1330691.html