Hey Guys,
Seems to be too much heavy and dramatic content on the forum lately...let's lighten things up with a discussion that I think we could all benefit from...
Figured I would get on here to propose a question as to what fuels, additives, or octane boosts do you guys run in your street driven cars?
I just got done recommissioning a car which had a full tank of ethanol fuel in it for 7 years without being driven. Has taken a long time to get the car to run like these cars are supposed to run.
It goes without saying that mixing high octane race fuels in with pump gas is likely the very best way to go..but not everyone finds it practical or do-able to store race fuel in the facility where they keep their cars. I may go the route of buying individual cans of race fuel..but wanted to see what everyone else is doing.
There is no shortage of auto parts store stocked products which promise different levels of octane boost...but my research indicates that the majority of these products are garbage..most seem to either make remarkably un-achievable promises or rely on somewhat deceptive terms to fool the consumer into thinking a product is more potent than it is. For example, many promise to raise octane levels up to 10 points which is the equivalent (theoretically) raising octane levels by a full number from, say, 91 to 92. Not much of a difference and most common consumers would read the label thinking they are going to raise 87 to 97. An unreasonable expectation but your common consumer might not understand how unreasonable that is in the first place.
For me, the most important rule I follow on fuel is I run ethanol free fuels. I can get 91 ethanol free at my local Hyvee Gas and at a few QuickTrip stations around town among a few other random stations. Highest I can get around here is 91 though...every 93 station here in KC has ethanol in the fuel. I know that many debate whether or not ethanol matters as much as some say it does...but I would rather not run it in my cars, everyone has their own way of doing things though.
I have been meaning to order a few of the higher end boosters out there to give them a try but have not gotten around to choosing which ones. Last night, I stopped by the auto parts store to at least see what was offered and came across Royal Purple's Max Boost. I figured I would give it a try because of a few reasons. It was the most expensive product offered, had the most modest claims on the label, and no effort is made on the label to confuse the consumer about the difference between points and numbers. To my surprise, it did make the 66 Hertz car I was driving run much smoother at high RPMs as well as at idle and start up. Seat of the pants, the car was a bit more responsive. Nothing crazy but the car seemed to be a bit more peppy than before. Overall, seemed like the product did its job. It doesnt even make the claim that it raises octane levels by a large amount but it seems to do more than any other auto parts store product I have ever tried.
http://www.royalpurpleconsumer.com/products/max-boost-octane-booster-fuel-stabilizer/
Ive been researching some of the following brands which are mostly only available through online sources, will probably try them next as they all seem to have fairly good reviews from consumers...
Torco
https://www.amazon.com/Torco-Accelerator-32oz-Best-Additive/dp/B004ZO3VN0/ref=pd_bxgy_263_img_2?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B004ZO3VN0&pd_rd_r=d1598c78-845a-11e8-9704-3b62632c2a1e&pd_rd_w=5TqkU&pd_rd_wg=jbVNu&pf_rd_i=desktop-dp-sims&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_p=3914568618330124508&pf_rd_r=ZW2VQF24N3RHSQQMCE8J&pf_rd_s=desktop-dp-sims&pf_rd_t=40701&psc=1&refRID=ZW2VQF24N3RHSQQMCE8J
"Race Gas"
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B015HRK7ZS/ref=psdc_15718861_t3_B0055DO36Y#customerReviews
Klotz
https://www.amazon.com/Octane-Booster-16-Ounce-Pint/dp/B0055DO36Y#customerReviews
So,...what do you guys use or have experience with? Or is is smarter to just bite the bullet and start buying small quantities of race fuels to keep on hand for a more consistent and more effective way of boosting octane levels?
Kind regards,
Vern
You can get Cam 2 in 55 gallon drums
Cam ll or Sunoco
https://www.sunocoracefuels.com/tech-article/race-fuel-101-lead-leaded-racing-fuels
I use ethanol free 92 fuel in the 66 as much as possible, probably ~95% of the time. The other 5% is when I run low and there are no ethanol free stations around. I've used Klotz additive if I do have to fill up with ethanol 10%, mainly for the stabilizer in it.
Last year I pulled the carb and took it apart just to check things out and it was as spotless inside as the day it was born.
Dave
Toluene
Available at your local paint store in 1 and 5 gallon drums.
ok what's the mix ratio 1 gallon of toluene to how many gallons of 93 octane ethanol fuel ?
what's the end octane gain?
long term effects on gasket and rubber hoses?
Quote from: 2112 on July 10, 2018, 01:28:04 PM
Toluene
Available at your local paint store in 1 and 5 gallon drums.
I'd love to run ethanol-free in my 69 shelby, but the only available option for it is 89 octane and it is a 20 minute drive from my house. I could drive 40 minutes to get 91 octane ethanol free. There are times when I am on a road tour and have no choice but to buy E10. As a result, I have just been putting E10 in all the time. I have Turbo Blue 115 octane leaded available for $9/gallon, but I was told by a friend it has ethanol in it. I need to confirm that info.
With that said, I am having fuel-related issues currently also. My fuel level in the carb bowls drops very low 4 hours after hot shut down and parking in the garage. I've had the carb apart 3 times and am beginning to think it is the transverse muffler heating the fuel in the tank and increasing the fuel pressure. My theory is it could force the fuel down into the intake if the pressure gets high enough. I recently put a new vented fuel cap on my GT350 and I am wondering if it does not vent enough. I installed a heat insulating plate under my carb temporarily, but that didn't fix the problem. Next time I drive the car, I will remove the fuel cap after hot shut off and see if the fuel drops well below my clear site plugs.
I've been looking for a reason to put real dual mufflers on my car now that my 351W makes 380 HP. The possibility the transverse muffler is heating my fuel up in the tank is the best reason so far.
Around here in Winston-Salem, we've recently been blessed with some Shell stations offering non-ETHANOL 93 for around $3.45/gallon. (That Shell Rewards program really comes in handy.) Using it in the GT350's and my track car.
Vern,
First and FOREMOST it is important to know IF you actually need more octane. For example I built a dedicated 408Ci 351W engine for my '67 Ranchero to use 87 octane ARCO ( the cheapest here in So Cal). Dyno tested and calibrated to 480 hp with Gas I purchased at the station by my house on dyno day. After 6 or so months my curiosity drove me to the local 1/8th mile drag strip ( Irwindale) to see what it would run. It ran 8.ohs or about 12.40 ( 1/4 mi equivalent). No issues and actually won the "gambler's race" with it! Feeling like Superman , I went the following week except this time I "rewarded" the engine with a tank of 91. Driving to the track was uneventful but the car ran slower and honestly felt sluggish at the track , running almost two tenths slower and 1 mph less. After a few runs I left very confused. To verify my suspicions I went back the next week with 87 and the performance was back to 8.ohs.
Bottom line the combination simply didn't "like" the extra octane.
Back to your question. "Additives" are often as expensive or more expensive that 100+ octane gas. When adding anything to existing fuel the toughest thing to accomplish is equal "blending" of the given additive. You dump it in and "hope" it mixes well. the smaller the quantity of additive , the more daunting probability of blending. A long time family friend (now RIP) worked for Conoco in the fuel lab. I asked him about racing fuels and additives and his response was "spike" gas with racing fuel before resorting to an octane additive. He explained octane additives don't always add "good things" just those that can raise octane. MBTE is one of the "bad ones" he mentioned , same one used at the pump. Royal Purple and ''Racegas" additives are high quality , trusted products. One thing is for sure Alcohol is not good is a gasoline based fuel system. Avoid it whenever possible. Before adding anything ( including tolulene) make sure you study up on the potential hazards involved. Unless you happen to be a chemist of course.
Randy
Randy is correct. I am running 89 E-free available only a mile from my home and priced the same as premium E-10 (about $3.99 here). It is only available at the pump near marinas for boating. Both the 66 GT350 and 65 Mustang GT are tuned for it and run beautifully. Mixing additives works if done correctly with proper ratio and mixed. You car is not a chemistry lab with a properly calibrated system. How much do you add when you do not have a fully empty tank? You invariably will guess or dump in the entire can. Not a good measurement. You will also get colorful readings on your plugs. Too much additive can cause an improper burn.
And besides, there is no independent verification that the octane stated at the pump is what you are actually getting. The pumps are only checked for correct dispensing volume. 8)
93 octane, non ethanol fuel without any issues and no additives.
Great thread Vern -
FWIW years ago my brother-in-law bought a place in the country and his nearest neighbor was a CITGO station.
The underground tanks at the station leaked and got into his well water. He of course sued and one interesting twist was the difficulty proving that it was CITGO gas that leaked, as station owners get gasoline from different suppliers and only really pay just to be able to use the signage.
What I do is never fill up my tank all the way unless I am taking my 390 4v Cougar on a long trip. I only keep about a quarter of a tank in it at any given time and I drive my car a lot in an effort to keep fresh gas in it.
Every once-in-awhile I put in 101 octane ethanol free aviation gas that is available at a small airport that is very close to me.
Not sure if any of this is doing any good so am interested to read more responses on this thread.
- Phillip
Quote from: FL SAAC TONY on July 10, 2018, 01:32:25 PM
ok what's the mix ratio 1 gallon of toluene to how many gallons of 93 octane ethanol fuel ?
what's the end octane gain?
long term effects on gasket and rubber hoses?
Toulene
R+M/2...114
Cost...$6.50/gal
Mixtures with 92 Octane Premium10%...94.2 Octane
20%...96.4 Octane
30%...98.6 Octane
Notes: Common ingredient in Octane Boosters in a can. 12-16 ounces will only raise octane 2-3 *points*, I.e. from 92 to 92.3. Often costs $3-5 for 12-16 ounces, when it can be purchased for less than $3/gal at chemical supply houses or paint stores.
I only use 5% as my engines were built for 92 pump gas and I am just trying to ensure I have no preignition due to gasoline that is not as advertised on the pump.
+ 1
link=topic=2371.msg20328#msg20328 date=1531243945]
ok what's the mix ratio 1 gallon of toluene to how many gallons of 93 octane ethanol fuel ?
what's the end octane gain?
long term effects on gasket and rubber hoses?
[/quote]
Toulene
R+M/2...114
Cost...$6.50/gal
Mixtures with 92 Octane Premium
10%...94.2 Octane
20%...96.4 Octane
30%...98.6 Octane
Notes: Common ingredient in Octane Boosters in a can. 12-16 ounces will only raise octane 2-3 *points*, I.e. from 92 to 92.3. Often costs $3-5 for 12-16 ounces, when it can be purchased for less than $3/gal at chemical supply houses or paint stores.
I only use 5% as my engines were built for 92 pump gas and I am just trying to ensure I have no preignition due to gasoline that is not as advertised on the pump.
[/quote]
I don't want to sidetrack this excellent thread but want to offer a differing opinion. Keeping your tank filled will minimize condensation. Water is the enemy. Also, I can attest that 93 non-ETHANOL treated with STABIL as directed can last up to 2 years and still perform as intended.
Tetraethyl lead is still available this is what was removed from leaded gasoline for purchase in quart bottles 1.8oz to 1 gallon adds 5 points. Octane supreme 130 is the product.
is it possible to buy non-enthanol at the pump anywhere near Los Angeles, California?
alan
Well all good points given. First and foremost you want to give your engine what it needs. 95 percent of all cars on here will live great on gas station fuel, mash on the throttle when it is up to operating temps in the environment it will be running in, do you here a rattling or preignition sound in your engine? If not things are looking up for you most engines built today are around 9-10 to one compression ratio pump gas is just fine for this application. If you have a hot tune up in it and it just starts to make some unwanted noises you can take a little timing out of it retard the ignition. Toluene is the main component of all Fuel BOOSTERS so yes don't pay big bucks at the parts store go to your hardware store and get a gallon of it. DONT use av gas I know it smells good but it is designed for high altitude CONSTANT rpm of a airplane engine. Race engines or hot street engines need high octane levels but they need all the other STUFF that makes up race gas for hard loads and variable rpms this is why it costs 15-20 gallon depending on what your engine needs. similar to putting an oversized carb on your car all carbs are not created equal and you probably don't need an excessively large carb for most applications. Race gas has a shelf life of a few weeks so don't filler up and hope things will be good in 6 months it wont be especially where its hot on the left coast. We don't have moisture problems out west so put the least amount in that you will need that way each time you will have some bodacious fuel for your pride and joy to inhale. :)
Quote from: werthie on July 10, 2018, 05:45:24 PM
is it possible to buy non-enthanol at the pump anywhere near Los Angeles, California?
alan
Check with any stations in close proximity for non ethanol fuel, good luck.
https://www.pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=CA
Yes, good thread. I have several stations that sell 90+ ethanol free gas nearby. I shall start using it.
Should I continue to use sta-bill for long term protection with the ethanol free fuel???
Thanks,
Steve
Stabil is just plain cheap insurance, the Stabil 360 protects fuel tanks intentionally kept at less than full by preventing corrosion/rust issues.
https://www.goldeagle.com/product/sta-bil-360-performance/
I have a VP Racing Fuel distributor near me, so I run straight 110 leaded in both my Kirkham and KR.
Each car has an aluminum side-oiler (468-cid/10.5 compression/580hp KR; 482-cid/10.5 compression/600 hp Kirkham) and they love the extra oomph of the race gas.
Yes, it's $9/gallon, but is worth it to me. I don't put a ton of miles on my cars, and want to be able to drive them on hot days without detonation or cranky manners due to California's crappy pump gas.
Plus, who doesn't love the sweet smell of race fuel in the exhaust...and knowing you're spewing enough hydrocarbons to offset the earth-saving smugness of about 500 Priuses every time you drive it.
This might be of help, especially if you are driving to car shows:
https://www.pure-gas.org/extensions/map.html
8)
Quote from: Side-Oilers on July 10, 2018, 08:37:02 PM
I have a VP Racing Fuel distributor near me, so I run straight 110 leaded in both my Kirkham and KR.
Each car has an aluminum side-oiler (468-cid/10.5 compression/580hp KR; 482-cid/10.5 compression/600 hp Kirkham) and they love the extra oomph of the race gas.
Yes, it's $9/gallon, but is worth it to me. I don't put a ton of miles on my cars, and want to be able to drive them on hot days without detonation or cranky manners due to California's crappy pump gas.
Plus, who doesn't love the sweet smell of race fuel in the exhaust...and knowing you're spewing enough hydrocarbons to offset the earth-saving smugness of about 500 Priuses every time you drive it.
With lead added 100 octane comes out to about $4 a gallon with east coast pump prices. A 68 owners manual calls for premium fuel of 99 octane for a 390GT which had 10.5 compression.
Currently in SoCal, pump super unleaded is around $4.00/gallon where I live..and I've seen nearly $5.00 in parts of Los Angeles...Newport Beach, Beverly Hills.
Makes race fuel seem downright reasonable.
I build all my engines in the 10:1-11:1 compression ratios and run them on 92 pump (38 degrees total advance)
I only add octane boost as a safety measure against lesser grade fuels. (5-10% Toluene)
Are you actually getting benefit of 100+ octane if you aren't running 13:1 compression?
Yes I know it smells good, but so does chloroform.
Of the four Ford V8 engines I have experience with, the 302, 347, 351c, 428 (Q), the small blocks are the least sensitive to detonation and actually run rather well on even 87 pump gas. I haven't run them over 10.8:1 and would only use 87 in some kind of a pinch.
92-93 pump gas is all they need. There have been a number of fuel "articles" that show data agreeing basically with what Randy said about fuels, i.e., that the 87 actually produces more heat then 92 does and as such shows a little more power.
Bottom line, a Ford small block doesn't need racing fuel or any additives.
My first Cleveland was built with TRW 11.8:1 pop-up pistons and quench heads. It ran fine on leaded SUNOCO 103 from the pumps until that was discontinues in about 1977 or 78. After that nothing that was unleaded would keep it from running without detonation so severe that it would actually shut itself off at about 4700rpm.
Moroso fuel additive to unleaded 93 would help but it would no longer run with power all the way to the red line without pinging. It had to be limited to about 32 degrees total advance but the key was to slow down the advance curve and go back to the thick heavy "stock original" distributor advance springs.
My current 351c is right at 10.0:1 and runs fine with pump premium and medium rate advance.
My 428 is apart getting rebuilt so I can't add anything to the discussion about it but I expect the distributor advance to be slowed down and to be limited to less then 36 degrees to run hard on 93.
SUNOCO premium here is still listed at 94 in the pumps. As far as I know, SUNOCO still refines it's own fuels to it's own formula and is not a batch commodity premium sold at different stations like other "premiums" are at 92-93.
I do know that running on SUNOCO 106 leaded racing gas that you can buy at race tracks will drop the idle rpm's down about 200 rpm at idle.
It is my understanding from reviewing data in the past that octane ratings have to do with resistance to detonation. The higher the number, the higher the resistance to that.
Higher octane fuel doesn't produce more power. In fact it produces less. The higher power is obtained by running higher static compression ratios without detonation.
Interesting and informative. Thank you shelbydoug
Quote from: deathsled on July 11, 2018, 09:50:32 AM
Interesting and informative. Thank you shelbydoug
That's about what I know with the exception that there is no difference in running an aluminum head and an iron head about resistance to detonation.
Detonation is simply caused by squeezing the fuel to a point where it explodes without a spark. That is simply cylinder pressure caused by static compression ratio.
The racers adage about adding 1 compression point with an aluminum head was about equalizing horse power with the iron head.
So far there is no data that agrees with that. In fact most of the data I see on aluminum head engines is that they make more hp AND torque BUT there are so many combinations available you can no longer compare apples to apples.
I still have three gallons of Moroso fuel additive left in the garage. Anyone who wants to try it can trade me something of added value.
I personally don't like handling anything "hydrocarbon". You need "mad scientist" gloves with this stuff so that you don't absorb it through your skin. You do not want to know the long term prognosis for your health with it.
It DOES work and turns your non-leaded into 106 leaded but caution needs to prevail.
Oh...in my experience if you go over about 11.0:1 cr, a Ford starter won't be able to handle a hot engine re-start. I had to go to Tilton type race starters in every case. There is an Accell in my Pantera that you can paint blue to look stock. It works well.
A Tilton in my 68 with the 347. Lots of folks are using them in BB Mustangs as well. Once you see your starter wire and starter relay SMOKING and the engine won't quite turn over, you will get a flash back on this post for sure. ;)
Something to consider also.
Fuels are "made" from "base stocks" with very specific types and quantities of additives "blended" in to produce the final product. Different fuel companies have their own "secret" blends which can actually be analyzed in a chemical lab. Another popular "additive'' is acetone. The internet has videos of how to add it to gas for great results. All this stuff is great but "simply" pouring "X" amount into the tank is DANGEROUS. This isn't magic it's science. Off the shelf additives are on the conservative side to prevent damage to your engine. Using the chemicals by themselves "can" produce power as well as damage if the "balance" of the fuel is out of control. 100+ octane fuels should be restricted to cast iron headed engines over 11-1 and aluminum headed engines over 12-1. If the compression is less than that "I" suggest running 50/50 or 75/25 mix of pump and race gas.
427heaven brings up a valid point about AV gas. It should not be used in ''pure" form and if mixed , never more than 50/50. This wasn't always the case as we"used to" be able to run it straight out of the pump. In the last 30 years it has gone to "low lead" and the formulation lacks several "must have" components. In any case AV gas is NOT the gas of choice for performance use but mixing will allow it to work. Carburetor jetting must be adjusted . AV gas and several race gasolines are tough on rubber hoses. "Most" will cause cracking of the rubber hose after as little as a year's use and steel braided hoses ( non teflon) are the most problematic. These fuels are very "drying" and evaporate quickly.
Randy
Quote from: NC TRACKRAT on July 10, 2018, 04:21:25 PM
I don't want to sidetrack this excellent thread but want to offer a differing opinion. Keeping your tank filled will minimize condensation. Water is the enemy. Also, I can attest that 93 non-ETHANOL treated with STABIL as directed can last up to 2 years and still perform as intended.
look out for separation or phasing when blending
Very very useful info, thanks to all of the contributors for taking the time to post.
- Phillip
Awesome thread dudes! Some really great info! Thanks to all who have posted!
Kind regards,
Vern
Detonation is better described as uncontrolled combustion. It has more causes than the simple compression reason Doug mentioned. Compression "squeezes" the air and fuel mixture which adds heat because of friction between the molecules. In a "perfect world" the air fuel ratio , compression , and octane rating are all in balance and the spark makes it all explode. Other things besides the mechanical compression Doug mentioned that can cause detonation are and uncontrolled ignition source. This could be carbon build up on the top of the piston that is still glowing from the exhaust stroke. Another potential source is the compression ring for the same reason. It is also important to know that detonation is often described as the "silent killer" What you hear most often is "pre ignition" and is more closely associated with timing and octane. Pre ignition is just that ignition before the spark plug. Detonation can happen before or during normal combustion.
With respect to aluminum heads my experience is far different than Doug's. That alone doesn't mean Doug is wrong.
Aluminum heads do have the potential to reduce detonation over an iron head. The first is the "physics" part. Aluminum absorbs and dissipates heat far better than does iron as most of us already know. Heat is a product of combustion and is normally referred to as BTUs ( British Thermal Units). A higher percentage of this heat is "lost" in the aluminum head through the absorption I mentioned. Next is less "latent" ( or stored ) heat in the combustion area does reduce the "possibility" of detonation. IF all things were equal this reduction in heat would also REDUCE horsepower output when using an aluminum head! Another lesser known change is the aluminum head "pulls" heat out of the spark plug to the point where a step hotter plug is necessary to eliminate potential fouling. That can also deduce the possibility of detonation. The final factor in an aluminum head reducing detonation is they are a "modern design" where the latest technology is employed for improved combustion quality over a 50+ year old design . Combustion chamber shapes are now designed specifically to enhance "swirl " which is important in eliminating dead areas and hot spots that can cause detonation.Those improvements are also why they end up making more power along with "modern" port designs and volumes. Adding a point in compression is an accepted number by our industry when using aluminum heads.
Randy
I agree with Randy for the most part but the difference that he saw in performance between using a "Regular" pump gas, at about 87 octane and a "Premium" at 92 or 93 AND seeing a decrease in performance in the 1/4 mile IS the difference in the heat calories generated by the different octanes.
The 1.1 aluminum = 1.0 iron is not a linear graph. The higher you go, the less significant it is. An engine in iron at 10.9 would be about an aluminum at 11.1 but an iron 9.2 would be around 10.0:1 in aluminum. It's not a straight line graph. Kind of a tangent curve.
That ratio was much more significant in the old drag cars running 14 or 15 to 1 cr's.
The Regular burns hotter, therefore supplies more heat calories and the difference was 1mph faster then the Premium could do and a little less the a .1 sec faster then the Premium.
Academically, that is correct but that is a very similar proportion to iron vs. aluminum PRESUMING that the two are identical other then the materials, which frankly, is very unlikely.
Pick up a set of 4v 289 or 302 heads from '67 or '68 and look at the combustion chambers. See the little wall near the spark plug, between the valves? That's Ford's high swirl design. Nothing new there.
That design is STILL in many of the current aftermarket small block heads. Manufacturers tinker with that still.
THAT Ford designed combustion chamber is no doubt a large factor in the sensitivity or more correctly the lack of sensativity of the SB Ford to fuel octane? I'd speculate that anyway. ;)
Another thing that affects cylinder pressure is cam timing. Not being a cam designer myself, I'll use the term of dynamic compression, and leave it to everyone to go do a Google on that themselves. As I understand it though, it's kind of an art form of blowing out some of the pressure created by the static compression, through the exhaust. An art form to get the exact timing right.
I tried that on my Cleveland and all I can say is I was VERY disappointed. There wasn't enough of a change and the results of detonation were still present. Maybe even worse?
Then I went to the aluminum A3 heads. Same deal. Not enough.
MY point is that it is static compression that accounts for the vast majority of detonation. Ignition advance is involved in that but what happens is that ignition advance creates more cylinder pressure. So this is all a balancing act between all of these factors and if everyone else is like me, I'm always on the ragged edge anyway.
From what I have experienced, the ignition advance both initial and the rate are the same as for an iron head. I can't speak for others on that though.
I do agree on the spark plug heat range with aluminum heads. If for instance you were fine at a BF32 with the iron head, presuming you could use that plug type with the aluminum head, I have found I had to go hotter, up to a BF42 to keep it clean. That is absolutely gospel as far as my results are concerned. However you can sort of throw that reasoning out the window with some induction changes.
Webers for instance, even with an iron head, would like you to go hotter one step. They also defy logic with what is thought to be perfect a/f ratios. Webers don't agree with those at all and use a much heavier a/f ratio.
For the sake of discussion I have NGK BP6ES plugs in my Pantera. The heat ranges aren't exactly the same as Motorcrafts but have a little wider heat range. These are right around what a BF42 would be heat wise, or a Champion F11y. Incidentally I think Champions have a wider heat range then the Motorcrafts do and the Autolites don't even enter into the discussion. Their heat range is narrower then the Motorcrafts.
At the performance levels we are talking about, static compression is the most SIGNIFICANT factor. It isn't the only factor though as Randy points out. Carbon buildup for instance will not only glow hot but closes up the chambers and raises the CR.
...and as far as me disagreeing with Randy, that's ok. That's why there are grudge matches at the strip? Grrrrrr! ;D
Now there is a saying that I remember, "age and cunning will beat youthful exuberance every time". In other words, us old guys cheat. Now considering Randy is 65 and I'm 69, who's got the edge? As a matter of fact, we have about the same amount of grey hair? BUT WE GOT HAIR! Huh? Go figure! :o
"Best" everyone! ;D
I am envious of those of you with Sunoco stations in your area. The best super unleaded that I can find in my part of SoCal is 91 octane.
$3.79 a gallon. Still envious?
Well yeah...I just paid $3.69/gal for 91 super unleaded this afternoon...the lowest price in my neighborhood.
Oh, boo-hoo. Lowest in my area for 91 E10 is $3.99. E-free 89 is now $4.19.
But the cars still roll. Lithium replacements cost lots more on those other things! 8)
It's my goal to personally use up as much gasoline as possible in my time on the planet. I don't fret the price...I just wanted to mention what it is in my area...and I've seen up to $5/gal in areas like Beverly Hills and Newport Beach.
IMHO: The best use of dead dinosaurs is in a thirsty Ford V8.
I posted earlier that I run $9/gallon 110 leaded VP Race Fuel in my two side-oilers.
Party on.
Quote from: CSX 4133 on July 10, 2018, 02:25:42 PM
93 octane, non ethanol fuel without any issues and no additives.
Ditto!!
Also where I'm at in WNC, our regular unleaded 87 is $2.71.
and our Ethanol Free 93 is $3.45
we like your views, remember more electric and fuel efficient vehicles only means much more fuels for us to use !
yours truly,
Mr 8 MPG
Quote from: Side-Oilers on July 11, 2018, 09:45:31 PM
It's my goal to personally use up as much gasoline as possible in my time on the planet. I don't fret the price...I just wanted to mention what it is in my area...and I've seen up to $5/gal in areas like Beverly Hills and Newport Beach.
IMHO: The best use of dead dinosaurs is in a thirsty Ford V8.
I posted earlier that I run $9/gallon 110 leaded VP Race Fuel in my two side-oilers.
Party on.
That's great, Tony. The next time some guy in an electric car gives me the stink eye, I'll tell him that!
Quote from: Side-Oilers on July 11, 2018, 09:45:31 PM
It's my goal to personally use up as much gasoline as possible in my time on the planet. I don't fret the price...I just wanted to mention what it is in my area...and I've seen up to $5/gal in areas like Beverly Hills and Newport Beach.
IMHO: The best use of dead dinosaurs is in a thirsty Ford V8.
I posted earlier that I run $9/gallon 110 leaded VP Race Fuel in my two side-oilers.
Party on.
Cam II unleaded racing gas in the pumps at a couple of SUNOCO stations here. $7 something a gallon. Problem is you use 1/2 a tank of gas going to get it.
Hopefully that half tank used is at WOT.
Quote from: Side-Oilers on July 12, 2018, 03:09:19 PM
Hopefully that half tank used is at WOT.
ONLY if you were TRYING to out run the police. They have Tarus SHO's here and they don't care if they break them chasing you. It lets them run the car at WOT, use a stun gun on you, hit you with the club, then hog tie you. But it's all in a good days fun.
You look like bacon frying in the pan after they stun you. You kind of wiggle around on the ground...then they get to drive your car back to the impound.
Great visuals, Doug!
Quote from: Side-Oilers on July 11, 2018, 09:45:31 PM
It's my goal to personally use up as much gasoline as possible in my time on the planet. I don't fret the price...I just wanted to mention what it is in my area...and I've seen up to $5/gal in areas like Beverly Hills and Newport Beach.
IMHO: The best use of dead dinosaurs is in a thirsty Ford V8.
I posted earlier that I run $9/gallon 110 leaded VP Race Fuel in my two side-oilers.
Party on.
LOL, I LOVE IT 8)
Thanks to CSX 4133's link earlier in this thread, I see that a gas station just up the road from me has ethanol free gas.
The only issue is it is 87 octane.
So, I'm wondering - is it best to:
• Continue using the 93 octane pump gas with ethanol in my freshly rebuilt 390 4v, which it was tuned for and which I drive regularly.
• Fill it up with the ethanol free 87 octane and then add a can of octane booster (and if so, which brand).
• Mix half 87 ethanol free gas with 101 octane ethanol free aviation gas (which is also just up the road at a small airport).
- Phillip
Quote from: propayne on July 14, 2018, 08:46:51 AM
Thanks to CSX 4133's link earlier in this thread, I see that a gas station just up the road from me has ethanol free gas.
The only issue is it is 87 octane.
So, I'm wondering - is it best to:
• Continue using the 93 octane pump gas with ethanol in my freshly rebuilt 390 4v, which it was tuned for and which I drive regularly.
• Fill it up with the ethanol free 87 octane and then add a can of octane booster (and if so, which brand).
• Mix half 87 ethanol free gas with 101 octane ethanol free aviation gas (which is also just up the road at a small airport).
- Phillip
I would think that if you can retune the engine to run on 87 it will just make the engine run hotter since 87 produces more heat then 92.
10% ethanol is not destroying your car 15% would be more of an issue.
Leave it alone. Run Premium.
E-gas is a major problem if you do not drive your car every couple of weeks as it separates in the tank and destroys old rubber hoses and gaskets. Stabilizers help prevent problems , but far better to try to use e-free fuel. I tuned my cars for the local 89 octane e-free and no trouble. When the gas tank on our 65 Mustang was drained after using e-10 92 octane, all kinds of water came out with the fuel. The car was only run every three to four weeks without stabilizer. 8)
Quote from: Don Johnston on July 14, 2018, 03:27:37 PM
E-gas is a major problem if you do not drive your car every couple of weeks as it separates in the tank and destroys old rubber hoses and gaskets. Stabilizers help prevent problems , but far better to try to use e-free fuel. I tuned my cars for the local 89 octane e-free and no trouble. When the gas tank on our 65 Mustang was drained after using e-10 92 octane, all kinds of water came out with the fuel. The car was only run every three to four weeks without stabilizer. 8)
I'm not arguing but I want to point out that perhaps the worst blend of chemical compounds is for high octane leaded racing gas. NONE of these blends will be a perfect product.
The more people that are asked, the more there will be people that have issues will ALL blends of gas. The fact of the matter is the nature of any is that it is not intended to have stability over long periods of time. It's intended for you to use it within a "normal period of time" ( I hate the term normal).
I personally have found 10% ethanol unleaded Premium as stable as anything I've ever used.
I would tell you that if you choose to use SUNOCO Cam II unleaded racing gas, use it up within about 30 days. It will still run your engine after that but you will loose some of the octane raising additives.
One of the advantages of unleaded premium is that it runs way cleaner then leaded fuels. It doesn't leave the same type of deposits that leaded does. Anyone who reads the plugs in their engines can clearly see that.
Leaded leaves a mess and the compounds that remain in the exhaust sytem from it not only are corrosive and dangerous to the environment, but they are a health hazard TO YOU because you are the one most exposed to them from driving the car with that fuel.
The bottom line is that unleaded with ethanol is not a bad compromise and works pretty well.
I've owned my 68 GT350 since 1971, and experienced the switch over from leaded to unleaded. I have not experienced ANY of the published issues with that car by using unleaded. The high octane leaded caused lots of problems.
This is just my experience and I agree that others will have their own personal experiences BUT if you heard that this happeded to others and it didn't happen to you, you are just promoting the story of Chicken Little and in my view, the sky is not falling with ethanol.