I want to spray my undercarriage with red oxide primer. They are already epoxy primed/sealed and I just want the original look. I've gone to Sherwin Williams Automotive paints (a big supplier) and even looked at Eastwood's and it seems like nobody makes it anymore. If I go on eBay I've seen a couple "off brand" gallons and who knows if they are the lighter or that dark brownish red oxide color. Has anyone had luck tinting grey primer? Is there a national source for the correct red-oxide color? Seems like I am not having any luck in CT finding anything so far- what are you guys using?
the under primer color is not an exact match. each batch had a slightly different tint to it. since it is already sealed, you can even use spray cans for more control. any auto paint store should have it (lead free now of course) just remember you have to add "runs and defects" to be correct. phred
Go to ppg dealer and get dp74lf. You didn't say what year/palnt you are working on so I can't tell you how to tint
Thanks for the responses. I see the spray balm can's everywhere and they look very dark compared to actual cars I've owned. I didn't check PPG and didn't know that the tones could be different so that's great to know before I do anything. The cars I can see myself doing are a Feb 70 Metuchen car and a May 67 San Jose car. The 70 floors could be one of the left over paint mixes (grey tones etc) but prefer the primer look and my cars are usually drivers so being exact isn't needed but close with some personal preference mixed in is always a plus. TLEA- If there's a particular tinting I can do based on year I would like to try if you are willing to share. Thanks again, Chris
Quote from: cboss70 on September 26, 2018, 04:02:34 PM
Thanks for the responses. I see the spray balm can's everywhere and they look very dark compared to actual cars I've owned. I didn't check PPG and didn't know that the tones could be different so that's great to know before I do anything. The cars I can see myself doing are a Feb 70 Metuchen car and a May 67 San Jose car. The 70 floors could be one of the left over paint mixes (grey tones etc)
If your car was built at NJ then the floor would have been a red oxide base not one of the slop colored car s- that was a different plant
Quote from: cboss70 on September 26, 2018, 04:02:34 PMbut prefer the primer look and my cars are usually drivers so being exact isn't needed but close with some personal preference mixed in is always a plus.
IMHO nothing straight out of the can is going to be perfect or in some cases close. I'm guessing you don't have any original paint left that could be scanned and copied but that would be the best way of matching each cars original finish and the more quality locations the better front and back of the car
Quote from: cboss70 on September 26, 2018, 04:02:34 PMTLEA- If there's a particular tinting I can do based on year I would like to try if you are willing to share. Thanks again, Chris
Its not based only on the year and plant but the month or week even. Depending on both it can vary a little or allot.
Also consider that the undercarriage (firewall rearward) is a different color and or tint than from the firewall forward)
For the San Jose 67 car just getting finished, last final touches, of an article on that - as I published for the other years and plants already posted on this site and CMF, Lots of pictures and threads over there focused on that already
For a 70 NJ car I would mix 3.5 parts DP74LF and 1 part DP90LF (black) plus hardener (hardener is 2 paint to 1 hardener)
This will get you in the range
I hate the fact there are so many little details (like variations in red oxide by year etc) that I don't know! I always appreciate the education so thanks to everyone for the feedback. After a few attempts I was able to find a paint dealer a half hour away who has the PPG primer so hopefully I can do some spraying within the next week or so!
Quote from: TLea on September 26, 2018, 02:55:18 PM
Go to ppg dealer and get dp74lf. You didn't say what year/palnt you are working on so I can't tell you how to tint
+1 and tell them you need a small quantity of black tint.
Quote from: cboss70 on September 27, 2018, 11:18:48 AM
I hate the fact there are so many little details (like variations in red oxide by year etc) that I don't know! I always appreciate the education so thanks to everyone for the feedback. After a few attempts I was able to find a paint dealer a half hour away who has the PPG primer so hopefully I can do some spraying within the next week or so!
I actually like all the small details and the variations. I should say that, I really like learning about all the differences, the education of it all. It's fascinating and I want to learn about as many of the details, as I can. I wish to become a storehouse of Shelby knowledge someday, especially the '69-'70 convertible models. My second choice is the '68 convertible model and then, the '67 models.
68 floor
more
Quote from: shlb69 on December 14, 2018, 12:40:40 AM
68 floor
Nice color - all or most of the oversprays came off with the cleaning as usual. Take it that this is a NJ car. From what month if I can ask ?
I'm still confused on the primer of my 68 GT350 BUT the mention of black in the primer gives me a brief flash of light on the subject.
I can't even tell you what color the drive shaft tunnel is but now black in there makes sense. It looks more like sprayed on rust and road debris. You need an artist to try to match it. Right around the parking brake cable mounting bracket, it's border line, indescribable.
Did the painters drop acid when the were working?
[quoteI'm still confused on the primer of my 68 GT350 BUT the mention of black in the primer gives me a brief flash of light on the subject.
I can't even tell you what color the drive shaft tunnel is but now black in there makes sense. It looks more like sprayed on rust and road debris. You need an artist to try to match it. Right around the parking brake cable mounting bracket, it's border line, indescribable.
Did the painters drop acid when the were working?
][/quote]
Pics???
TOB
I have never seen a 1968 Shelby with a sprayed black tunnel, but I have seen several cars that have black paint sprayed over the primer in the area above the rear axle housing
+1 That's why I asked for pics.
TOB
Quote from: Coralsnake on December 14, 2018, 09:57:59 AM
I have never seen a 1968 Shelby with a sprayed black tunnel, but I have seen several cars that have black paint sprayed over the primer in the area above the rear axle housing
+1 Remember/consider that since the floor sealer/paint was applied by stationary jets mounted below the traveling body rail system all of the jets were supplied from the same source and product was applied from the firewall rearward there was not an ability to apply different colors to different sections of the main and rear floor areas.
Have seen all kinds of sprays and coatings added after. likely IMHO by owners thinking it would improve or address some issue or concern.
Sometimes it's just some owner and a rattle can. Have dozens of examples (we many of us have seen them) with brightly painted rearends from the 70-80's
Seems the thread has taken a 68 tilt :)
Quote from: Coralsnake on December 14, 2018, 09:57:59 AM
I have never seen a 1968 Shelby with a sprayed black tunnel, but I have seen several cars that have black paint sprayed over the primer in the area above the rear axle housing
I didn't say it was sprayed black. What I said was the black mixed in COULD explain the slop grey, almost galvanized effect in certain spots on the car like the tunnel and like around the emergency brake brackets.
It DOESN'T EXPLAIN the "pink" near the bell house indentation like on mine and Phil's -00212.
Quote from: J_Speegle on December 14, 2018, 03:30:11 AM
Quote from: shlb69 on December 14, 2018, 12:40:40 AM
68 floor
Nice color - all or most of the oversprays came off with the cleaning as usual. Take it that this is a NJ car. From what month if I can ask ?
Sunlit Gold i would say which is very opaque , the overspray is there, just hard to see.
Hardly , the all or most gone as usual scenario.
Much rather see these original factory floors than reproduction finishes.
After 50+ years a little wear and missing some fine overspray is fine by me.
Quote from: shelbydoug on December 14, 2018, 03:20:59 PM
.......... What I said was the black mixed in COULD explain the slop grey, ..............
Not sure how one would get the center one or two jets to spray a different color than the other spray jets all plumbed together. Just discussing :)
Quote from: 6s2020 on December 14, 2018, 04:57:32 PM
Much rather see these original factory floors than reproduction ones.
After 50+ years a little wear and missing some fine overspray is fine by me.
Just to clarify my earlier post. Yes love to see original floors that's why I've collected the same for 30 plus years. Just didn't want others to see and take away from the posting that the amount of visible overspray seen in the pictures posted was typical of a new or well restored Mustang/Shelby. The finer oversprays at least rarely hold up to any cleaning and the pinch weld overspray is not very opaque and its all but gone in the pictures - supporting that paint was removed during the process IMHO.
But again great to see the example and was only asking about the production period or date so I could label, store and compare these to others as best possible
Quote from: J_Speegle on December 14, 2018, 04:59:11 PM
Quote from: shelbydoug on December 14, 2018, 03:20:59 PM
.......... What I said was the black mixed in COULD explain the slop grey, ..............
Not sure how one would get the center one or two jets to spray a different color than the other spray jets all plumbed together. Just discussing :)
Quote from: 6s2020 on December 14, 2018, 04:57:32 PM
Much rather see these original factory floors than reproduction ones.
After 50+ years a little wear and missing some fine overspray is fine by me.
Just to clarify my earlier post. Yes love to see original floors that's why I've collected the same for 30 plus years. Just didn't want others to see and take away from the posting that the amount of visible overspray seen in the pictures posted was typical of a new or well restored Mustang/Shelby. The finer oversprays at least rarely hold up to any cleaning and the pinch weld overspray is not very opaque and its all but gone in the pictures - supporting that paint was removed during the process IMHO.
But again great to see the example and was only asking about the production period or date so I could label, store and compare these to others as best possible
Text in red...Same can be said for most restorations.
Not sure if this one ever got pinch weld paint by the look of it. Doubt cleaning only would remove it.
Would have to see before cleaning shots.
Info and photos are put up to share and you can pick and choose based on research what is applicable.
All good Jeff
Darryll
Quote from: 6s2020 on December 14, 2018, 05:29:17 PM
Not sure if this one ever got pinch weld paint by the look of it. Doubt cleaning only would remove it.
Would have to see before cleaning shots.
Info and photos are put up to share and you can pick and choose based on research what is applicable.
Appears to be traces of black left along the outer surface of the convertible seat support and rearward nearer the rear wheel well. Since the black is the top layer over the body color it comes off first or is often part of undercoating if it was applied. Have removed many examples with cleaning to aggressively over the years. Thing I have an idea related to the rear rend section of the rear floor and it having black there but will share that after a little more study and possibly with the release of the 68 NJ undercarriage finishing article. ;)
Maybe we can benefit from a separate thread here or elsewhere ::) to focus just on that year and plant.
Not sure how one would get the center one or two jets to spray a different color than the other spray jets all plumbed together. Just discussing :)
It's not a different color. It just SEEMS to vary in the deep pockets of the flooring. Inconsistent is the word that best describes it.
Also, where the dividing line is from the front of the car to the rear, I can't say other then the back of the car is completely different then the front, from about the indentation in the pan where the rear seat cushions seat above.
Look at the pictures of -00212 that Phil had posted. Mine is very, very similar. I long ago just got disgusted with looking at the inconsistency and unfinished appearance and shot black 3m undercoating over it.
Recently I was washing it off of the front. The disgust has returned. I don't think that was a wise decision by me. I'll have to take the entire car apart to get the full picture.
At least with my Pantera I don't have to deal with that. The factory just embed the undercarriage in tar.
January built 1968 Shelby. Car was a little rusty, but unrestored. Black paint directly above rear axle
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/8-141218203035.jpeg)
A different 1968 Shelby also unrestored....either Jan or Feb build date. Might have been to cover bare areas? Looks to be sprayed over redox and not done by owner
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/8-141218203615.jpeg)
Mine is a 2/14/68 build date. The plot thickens? Play the music.
Maybe their version of batch paint? On mine it almost looks like the 55-7 T-birds where the painters were cleaning out the spray guns. Maybe the robots were in revolt?
The black spots like that are more of a flat dark grey, but yes, they are there.
Quote from: J_Speegle on December 14, 2018, 03:30:11 AM
Quote from: shlb69 on December 14, 2018, 12:40:40 AM
68 floor
Nice color - all or most of the oversprays came off with the cleaning as usual. Take it that this is a NJ car. From what month if I can ask ?
What makes it a New Jersey car? That red oxide primer looks almost like it has a little copper in it. Orange-ish-red with copper and a hint of black? laugh
All 1968 Shelbys were built at the New Jersey-assembly. You are not going to accurately identify specific colors over the nternet
Quote from: Coralsnake on December 14, 2018, 08:33:15 PM
A different 1968 Shelby also unrestored....either Jan or Feb build date. Might have been to cover bare areas? Looks to be sprayed over redox and not done by owner
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/8-141218203615.jpeg)
02267, 4/30/68 build very similar blacked out area on the over the axle area also.
Quote from: TLea on September 26, 2018, 02:55:18 PM
Go to ppg dealer and get dp74lf. You didn't say what year/palnt you are working on so I can't tell you how to tint
+1 and a qrt of black, same product, to tint with, should you want/need to. And you will, the straight DP74 is just too red out of the can. The black will "brown it down".
Here are pictures of the 67 GT350 we are working on. Built 05/02/67.
Wow! Thanks for posting. I've never seen that much overspray but I have seen that almost Rustoleum red primer color before.
The white seems to be under the rear Shelby bumper pads. Interesting.
Quote from: cascade-classics on December 26, 2018, 01:10:39 PM
Here are pictures of the 67 GT350 we are working on. Built 05/02/67.
Not a out of the ordinary amount of overspray on a white car . There were varying amounts . Typically on restorations restorers tend to go on the light side of the overspray spectrum. Often times too little. I tell restorers, If a Ford painter was getting good coverage on the rockers (remember they were raised up on a trolley cart) there is going to be a large amount of body color overspray on the bottom side floor pan given the type of assemblyline gun and the volume they put out.
Quote from: cascade-classics on December 26, 2018, 01:10:39 PM
Here are pictures of the 67 GT350 we are working on. Built 05/02/67.
Thanks for more pictures ;)
Quote from: shelbydoug on December 26, 2018, 01:43:40 PM
The white seems to be under the rear Shelby bumper pads. Interesting.
Painter got low and those period spray guns flowed allot during the day so lots of overspray and indirect spray. Add to that the fact that its white - a very high contrasting color as has been mentioned
Not surprising that white would show on such a car under where the rear end bumpers would later be installed - both the San Jose installed and the much later Shelby added
I'm sure the pressure they ran had a lot to do with it, hence the move to LP guns. Was the undercarriage sprayed first with the reddish-brown primer, before the body color?
Quote from: SNAKEBIT on January 09, 2019, 09:49:19 AM
I'm sure the pressure they ran had a lot to do with it, hence the move to LP guns. Was the undercarriage sprayed first with the reddish-brown primer, before the body color?
All primer sprayed before body color.
Quote from: CharlesTurner on January 09, 2019, 10:28:05 AM
All primer sprayed before body color.
+1
And firewall rearward before the firewall forward