SAAC Forum

Deals and Appeals => Appeals => Topic started by: 427heaven on October 23, 2018, 06:46:43 PM

Title: Under Construction
Post by: 427heaven on October 23, 2018, 06:46:43 PM
I seem to always be in the Under construction mode. For some of us this seems to fit like a velvet glove. Many are afraid to show their pride and joy because they are in an incompleted state, so hopefully we can make this the place for the unfinished cars. Would love to see others cars and their ideas to get them where they need to be. :)
Title: Re: Under Construction
Post by: Wedgeman on October 23, 2018, 06:58:19 PM
+1
Title: Re: Under Construction
Post by: kjspeed on October 23, 2018, 08:03:00 PM
I'll take the bait! This is my 1968 S-Code Mustang GT Fastback. Car was purchased in 2009 after sitting for 17 years in the Florida weather. On the plus side, it came with the original 390 engine, C6 transmission, 9" rear end, deluxe interior with overhead console and was originally Highland Green like another famous 68 fastback. Unfortunately, there was rust everywhere. Currently the new rocker panels are tacked in and Art Morrison is about to start on a Max-G chassis to form the new foundation. I haven't settled on an engine/transmission package yet but it will definitely be an FE. Maybe a 427 dressed up to look like a 390 or maybe I'll just build the 390. Leaning towards an automatic AOD or maybe one of those new 10-speeds (but I'm sure I'd be the first to retrofit one to an FE).


I've decided that the Shelby is just too valuable to thrash the way I want to, so this car will take the punishment when the time comes. My goal is to build a car that will run very well on the track and be somewhat streetable as well. As you can see, I'm tens of thousands of dollars and years away from finishing the car but at least it's progressing now!
Title: Re: Under Construction
Post by: 427heaven on October 23, 2018, 08:10:36 PM
That's what I'm talkin about, another visionary amongst us. Can you do the metal work? I would love to see progression shots- Good Luck ;)
Title: Re: Under Construction
Post by: JD on October 23, 2018, 09:01:36 PM
I seem to always be in the Under construction mode. For some of us this seems to fit like a velvet glove. Many are afraid to show their pride and joy because they are in an incompleted state, so hopefully we can make this the place for the unfinished cars. Would love to see others cars and their ideas to get them where they need to be. :)

+2
Title: Re: Under Construction
Post by: kjspeed on October 23, 2018, 10:54:40 PM
Iím not a trained body man but Iíve stayed at a Holiday Inn before. Fortunately my son is a talented welder. That and neither one of us would admit there was anything we couldnít do. Two stubborn Irishmen. Time will tell...


The original plan called for returning the car to factory condition with the addition of updated front and rear suspension. All of the frame rails, doors, fenders, hood, quarters, torque boxes, trunk floor, rockers, cowl, firewall and front aprons have already been purchased. Then I started doing some research on what current 68 GT S-code fastbacks were going for and I realized that I would be break-even or (most likely) upside down when all was said and done. Then I saw a Mustang with an Art Morrison Max-G chassis under it and got to thinking - it might be easier to use that chassis (or another one like it) than it would be to restore the original unibody and then add updated suspension. It's also not much more expensive. And well-built restomods sitting on AME chassis command top dollar. And it should handle way better than any stock Mustang or Shelby would, even with suspension upgrades. For all those reasons, and in light of this car not being a candidate for a concours restoration I decided to take this fork in the road.


Is it stupid ambitious to attempt this having never constructed a car from the ground up before? Probably! But that never stopped me before.


For sentimental reasons the FE is non-negotiable. I have the original 390 and another one on a stand. I've seen where you can coax 500+ HP out of one and that should be enough to get it rolling. The automatic appeals to me because I have 2 other sticks already and in a drag race the slushbox will win. I'd like to run a 3.89 or higher rear gear so it launches well, but don't want to be turning 3500 RPM @ 60 MPH so I'll need an overdrive of some sort. I have a lot of work to do before I need to settle on a powertrain.


It's been said that the thrill of the chase can be just as fun as ultimately driving the car you were looking for. I think that the process of building a one-off car like this will be almost as satisfying as driving it. I won't know for sure until I turn the key for the first time!
Title: Re: Under Construction
Post by: SNAKEBIT on October 24, 2018, 10:15:03 AM
KJ, good luck with all that. There is damn near nothing left of it. lol. I take it, you do have all the fenders and quarter panels? I'd keep all the original drivetrain, as so many cars now a days, don't have them. That 390 is good for all the power you may be thinking of. The slushbox is good for very quick shifts, if you put in a really nice shift kit. I put a 2,000 stall kit into my '69 SuperBee years ago and if I floored it, the tires would chirp at 50 mph while going into 2nd gear! Have fun.
Title: Re: Under Construction
Post by: 98SVT - was 06GT on November 29, 2018, 11:21:14 PM
Probably a toss up $18,500 for a new Dynacorn body or $18,499 to fix the one you have.
Title: another thought
Post by: vtgt500 on December 05, 2018, 09:06:13 AM
I closely inspected these at SEMA a year ago.  The alignment, fit and finish are impressive.  If hand built on a precision jig using Ford licensed data points, it could be better than OEM was 50 years ago.  If something happened to my '68, wouldn't hesitate a moment to buy an R3.
http://r3pp.com/body-shells-classic/
Title: Re: Under Construction
Post by: Bigfoot on December 05, 2018, 09:29:51 AM
Nice thread idea Dennis!
Title: Re: Under Construction
Post by: tesgt350 on December 05, 2018, 10:08:41 AM
Probably a toss up $18,500 for a new Dynacorn body or $18,499 to fix the one you have.

$18,499 to FIX that Body?  Fairy Tail Dreams.
Title: Re: Under Construction
Post by: 6R07mi on December 05, 2018, 12:59:54 PM
My TX 66 notchback going back together with Group II mods.
sat in storage in Ft Worth 1984 ~ 2008

289 +0.040" going back together with 1969 351W heads, exh ports opened up, intake ports cleaned up 
Title: Re: Under Construction
Post by: 6R07mi on December 05, 2018, 01:10:14 PM
additional photos,
re-welded aluminum intake where corrosion damaged the gasket surface
$45 oil cooler package
Title: Re: Under Construction
Post by: 2112 on December 05, 2018, 01:35:26 PM
Totally lovin the control arm upgrades and oil cooler.

Is R3PP building their own shell or are they using Dynacorn?
Title: Re: Under Construction
Post by: vtgt500 on December 05, 2018, 02:15:44 PM
Totally lovin the control arm upgrades and oil cooler.

Is R3PP building their own shell or are they using Dynacorn?

Great question.  I couldn't get a straight answer at the trade show.  Only mention was, Ford licensed vendor.  Dennis Carpenter perhaps?
Title: Re: Under Construction
Post by: vtgt500 on December 05, 2018, 02:29:08 PM
My TX 66 notchback going back together with Group II mods.
sat in storage in Ft Worth 1984 ~ 2008

289 +0.040" going back together with 1969 351W heads, exh ports opened up, intake ports cleaned up

I too had a 70's vintage Ford Muscle Parts Stage 5 Dominator 302 build.  Included '69 351W 4V heads cut for GT40 valves,  Crane roller rockers, C90Z-9424-D intake, C7FE-6250-A LeMans cam, 12.5:1 pop up pistons, and Boss 302 balancer.  The combination worked amazingly well enjoying it for many years.  Still resides on an engine stand awaiting a Falcon restoration.  Only imagine what current cam and head designs contribute.
Title: Re: Under Construction
Post by: gt350shelb on December 05, 2018, 08:51:30 PM
this is still in the collecting parts stage ......67 289 auto originally britney blue with black deluxe  interior. I bought it from a retired d/c police officer  car has a bad 80s paint job on it . but structurally it is  very clean . the vinyl roof has rusted the roof pretty bad . SO if i have to cut the roof and 1/4s off i might as well put fast back parts back (evil grin)  back to brittney blue  and black interior  331 / 347  /427  stroker small block  manual trans . daily driver kinda day 2 car  ......non resto mod   . Something that gets used all summer  and  i can take anywhere .   
Title: Re: Under Construction
Post by: SNAKEBIT on December 07, 2018, 11:31:07 AM
6R07mi, I didn't know you could put 351 heads on a 289. How much hp do you think it will make when you are finished with it? Can both Windsor and Cleveland fit on that engine? What about the 351 M. What does M stand for? I was told Mitzer.
Title: Re: Under Construction
Post by: TJinSA on December 07, 2018, 01:56:48 PM
'69 351 heads had larger ports, but also larger combustion chamber requiring pop-up pistons.  In the old Muscle Parts building guides, it was the head of choice for Stage 3 & 4 builds.  I'll find the pages and post later this weekend.
Title: Re: Under Construction
Post by: Bob Gaines on December 07, 2018, 02:22:58 PM
'69 351 heads had larger ports, but also larger combustion chamber requiring pop-up pistons.  In the old Muscle Parts building guides, it was the head of choice for Stage 3 & 4 builds.  I'll find the pages and post later this weekend.
It is a advantage for early high compression engines to be able to lower their compression ratio slightly to run better on lower octane fuels and also benefit from better breathing. Not a factor back when when premium gas was 98-100 octane but now when you are lucky to find 93 octane lower compression ratios are factor on pleasure driven cars. The 351W head would be a budget minded modification now days. Of course any of the after market aluminum heads are a better performance choice over a stock 351W head.
Title: Re: Under Construction
Post by: 6R07mi on December 07, 2018, 02:46:05 PM
6R07mi, I didn't know you could put 351 heads on a 289. How much hp do you think it will make when you are finished with it? Can both Windsor and Cleveland fit on that engine? What about the 351 M. What does M stand for? I was told Mitzer.

Snakebit, the old Ford Muscle Parts Catalog outlines the different "stage" mods for the different engine familes,
The 351W heads are a "poor mans" GT40 head upgrade, it requires different head bolts / fasteners, matching the water ports with the intake side gaskets. HP expectations are related to compression ratio, cam selection, porting, carb etc.

If competing in vintage organizations that do not allow modern aluminum heads, only period iron heads it's one option.
The fast guys are likely cheating anyway, I don't have the big budget and wanted to build a true 60's era mod motor.

Mounting a 351 C head = Boss 302, 351M ( M=Modified ) heads are not worth messing with.

regards,
jp
Title: Re: Under Construction
Post by: SNAKEBIT on December 07, 2018, 07:35:00 PM
Thanks everyone for filling me in on the 351 head info. So, the Cleveland heads are really the only ones worth using. Ok. Thanks.
Title: Re: Under Construction
Post by: 2112 on December 07, 2018, 09:21:31 PM
Thanks everyone for filling me in on the 351 head info. So, the Cleveland heads are really the only ones worth using. Ok. Thanks.

Cleveland heads can be used on a Windsor block. NASCAR has been doing that for years and has been copied by the other manufacturers. They live at high RPM's.

Of the 60's Windsor iron heads, '69 351W heads are some of the better heads but not the only good Windsor head.  😎
Title: Re: Under Construction
Post by: 427heaven on December 07, 2018, 10:07:13 PM
Thanks everyone for filling me in on the 351 head info. So, the Cleveland heads are really the only ones worth using. Ok. Thanks.
[/quot                                                                                                                                                                                                                     Cleveland heads flow better ,perform better, but remember you need a custom intake manifold like a BA track boss or street boss intake and you will need a competent machinist to modify the water ports. Also will need new headers it all ads up to some $$$$$ but you will like the results.
Title: Re: Under Construction
Post by: kjspeed on March 04, 2019, 10:56:35 AM
The new chassis arrived last week - now the fun begins!!

(https://www.saacforum.com/gallery/153-040319104929.jpeg)
(https://www.saacforum.com/gallery/153-040319105041.jpeg)
Title: Re: Under Construction
Post by: SNAKEBIT on May 21, 2019, 05:51:38 PM
Hey, nice, new frame. Is that going to be heavier than the original style one? It'll be nice and stiff.
Title: Re: Under Construction
Post by: kjspeed on May 21, 2019, 08:00:50 PM
Snakebit - The AME frame is somewhat heavier than the equivalent stock Mustang parts, but I'm going to trim weight wherever I can. Thinking of doing Lexan side windows, aluminum fender aprons & floorpan to save a little weight. Dove is building me an aluminum 427 tunnel port so that will be considerably lighter than the original 390 and have an extra 300+ HP. I'd love to bring it in under 3100 lbs. but I do want to retain the fold down back seat, install a roll bar and Vintage Air heat & A/C so that may push it a little higher. I'm sticking with the original C6 mated up to a Gear Vendor's overdrive (more weight) with a 3.89 rear gear. Hopefully that's enough to move it down the road.  8)
Title: Re: Under Construction
Post by: 67 GT350 on May 21, 2019, 09:35:16 PM
Hows this?
Title: Re: Under Construction
Post by: kjspeed on May 22, 2019, 09:01:35 AM
Yikes! Get that fellow some suspenders or one of these (https://www.duluthtrading.com/mens-longtail-t-short-sleeve-t-shirt-76020.html?dwvar_76020_color=BUR&cgid=mens-shirts-t-shirts#start=2&cgid=mens-shirts-t-shirts).

I've not seen a scale model done up as a barn find - that's pretty cool!
Title: Re: Under Construction
Post by: 67 GT350 on May 22, 2019, 10:16:29 AM
Thats what my car looked like the day I got it, I had that made, with pictures I send the guy, notice the color change that was in progress form a previous owner? Here is it today, I went through HE double hockey sticks to get that car done!
Title: Re: Under Construction
Post by: TOBKOB on May 22, 2019, 08:51:42 PM
Nice   :)

TOB