With the two R-models that recently went through the auctions, I was talking with a friend today about a few R-models that we know of and have seen in the past 5-10 years. We were looking at the registry (pages 200-232) and noticed a lot of great pictures of R-models in various stages. The photos are either in racing form, customized form or in tired old race car form.
Within the past few years there have been a variety of R-models go through different auction houses. They are mostly all very well restored and virtually perfect. Does anyone have any photos they would like to share of R-models in recent form or older condition other than the ones that have gone through auction? We can all google pictures of the auctioned cars (although I have done plenty of that over the years...and still enjoy it). Pages 208-211 of the registry have some great examples of what I am talking about, but at the same time does anyone have them in color and larger format?
I'm just a fan enjoying the details and overanalyzing these great cars.
What a great post! I'd love to know if there are any original/non restored R models. These cars had anything but an easy life. I'm sure there has got to be a few in period livery
Hi Silverton Ford,
I am pretty sure Fred Hilbert's 5R094 is not restored. He is a long time owner and has raced the car competitively back in the day. Last time I saw him run the car was at Mid American 2008, now ten years ago. I expect he is only showing the car for exhibition now and no longer running hard.
I remember seeing Fred running at Great Bend, circa 1985, with the passenger side rear fender bashed in. He was not afraid to run the car.
Cory
Quote from: sfm5s081 on March 05, 2018, 01:25:34 AM
What a great post! I'd love to know if there are any original/non restored R models. These cars had anything but an easy life. I'm sure there has got to be a few in period livery
Plenty in period livery but restored.
Parde's car is pretty much the way it has always been.
Define "Restored" Does that mean crashed and rebuilt?
Quote from: 6s1640 on March 05, 2018, 02:06:18 AM
Hi Silverton Ford,
I am pretty sure Fred Hilbert's 5R094 is not restored. He is a long time owner and has raced the car competitively back in the day. Last time I saw him run the car was at Mid American 2008, now ten years ago. I expect he is only showing the car for exhibition now and no longer running hard.
I remember seeing Fred running at Great Bend, circa 1985, with the passenger side rear fender bashed in. He was not afraid to run the car.
Cory
Cory,
When you say not restored what do you mean? overall structure, body, mechanically? We can see 5r094 has been repainted from it's factory white / blue stripes. The front "R" valance was damaged on a few occasions as show in period photos. Most noticeably at Sebring in 66 it was cracked / split in the center.
There are other sign of race incidents (bumps and scrapes) too.
Silverton,
These cars were tough, raced hard, and damaged one way or another. I have read car 5r534 is one of the more original comp cars, but even that one was restored. There's a lot of color photos from back in their race days. Are there any specific cars you are looking for?
Quote from: Richstang on March 05, 2018, 01:03:12 PM
Quote from: 6s1640 on March 05, 2018, 02:06:18 AM
Hi Silverton Ford,
I am pretty sure Fred Hilbert's 5R094 is not restored. He is a long time owner and has raced the car competitively back in the day. Last time I saw him run the car was at Mid American 2008, now ten years ago. I expect he is only showing the car for exhibition now and no longer running hard.
I remember seeing Fred running at Great Bend, circa 1985, with the passenger side rear fender bashed in. He was not afraid to run the car.
Cory
Cory,
When you say not restored what do you mean? overall structure, body, mechanically? We can see 5r094 has been repainted from it's factory white / blue stripes. The front "R" valance was damaged on a few occasions as show in period photos. Most noticeably at Sebring in 66 it was cracked / split in the center.
There are other sign of race incidents (bumps and scrapes) too.
Hi Richstang, I mean in the pure sense, like 5R002. The car is taken back to its assembly line configurations or other period specific time. The car has been repainted, repaired and altered to meet rules at the time the car was competitively ran. It has not seen the a painstakingly restoration like those performed by John Brown at Thoroughbred Restorations. Does that make more sense? I know "restoration" can mean different things to different people.
Cory
Quote from: 6s1640 on March 05, 2018, 02:06:18 AM
Hi Silverton Ford,
I am pretty sure Fred Hilbert's 5R094 is not restored. He is a long time owner and has raced the car competitively back in the day. Last time I saw him run the car was at Mid American 2008, now ten years ago. I expect he is only showing the car for exhibition now and no longer running hard.
I remember seeing Fred running at Great Bend, circa 1985, with the passenger side rear fender bashed in. He was not afraid to run the car.
Cory
Luckily Fred has been pretty consistent at bringing the car to the Mid America Shelby meet on show day the last number of years. Sometimes he has at Hallet road course but I can't say how hard he may run it.
Quote from: Richstang on March 05, 2018, 01:03:12 PM
Silverton,
These cars were tough, raced hard, and damaged one way or another. I have read car 5r534 is one of the more original comp cars, but even that one was restored. There's a lot of color photos from back in their race days. Are there any specific cars you are looking for?
Richstang - - Not anyone in particular. I guess as many and or all. I just like reading about and studying these cars. Nothing scientific going on here, although I'm very open to the differences between them as well. The history of these cars throughout the last 50+ years for each car is very fascinating.
Cory, Thank you for posting the photo of 5R094. That is great!
- Thank you, Brian
Quote from: 6s1640 on March 05, 2018, 02:33:49 PM
Quote from: Richstang on March 05, 2018, 01:03:12 PM
Quote from: 6s1640 on March 05, 2018, 02:06:18 AM
Hi Silverton Ford,
I am pretty sure Fred Hilbert's 5R094 is not restored. He is a long time owner and has raced the car competitively back in the day. Last time I saw him run the car was at Mid American 2008, now ten years ago. I expect he is only showing the car for exhibition now and no longer running hard.
I remember seeing Fred running at Great Bend, circa 1985, with the passenger side rear fender bashed in. He was not afraid to run the car.
Cory
Cory,
When you say not restored what do you mean? overall structure, body, mechanically? We can see 5r094 has been repainted from it's factory white / blue stripes. The front "R" valance was damaged on a few occasions as show in period photos. Most noticeably at Sebring in 66 it was cracked / split in the center.
There are other sign of race incidents (bumps and scrapes) too.
Hi Richstang, I mean in the pure sense, like 5R002. The car is taken back to its assembly line configurations or other period specific time. The car has been repainted, repaired and altered to meet rules at the time the car was competitively ran. It has not seen the a painstakingly restoration like those performed by John Brown at Thoroughbred Restorations. Does that make more sense? I know "restoration" can mean different things to different people.
Cory
Yes, that helps...not stripped down of every nut and bolt, just maintained for use. The repaint had me wondering.
Thanks Cory.
Quote from: silverton_ford on March 05, 2018, 02:50:59 PM
Quote from: Richstang on March 05, 2018, 01:03:12 PM
Silverton,
These cars were tough, raced hard, and damaged one way or another. I have read car 5r534 is one of the more original comp cars, but even that one was restored. There's a lot of color photos from back in their race days. Are there any specific cars you are looking for?
Richstang - - Not anyone in particular. I guess as many and or all. I just like reading about and studying these cars. Nothing scientific going on here, although I'm very open to the differences between them as well. The history of these cars throughout the last 50+ years for each car is very fascinating.
Cory, Thank you for posting the photo of 5R094. That is great!
- Thank you, Brian
My head is going to explode. That's too many options...although limiting them to color photos will narrow it down a bit. I think 5r001 and especially 5r002 can stand alone with separate threads.
Here's a few random pics of early cars that I don't believe are copyrighted.
Love this thread. That last photo above demonstrates the hard but fun lives these cars live. Would love to vintage race one some day...
Quote from: GT350Lad on March 05, 2018, 04:57:51 PM
Love this thread. That last photo above demonstrates the hard but fun lives these cars live. Would love to vintage race one some day...
You think that was hard. Check out this R-model. Maybe a little metal work and some fresh paint this car could be fixed. ;)
Cory
Cory,
That is 5R099. Dan Gerber's car. The crash scene is at the final race of 1966. Dan broke both legs in that crash.
Do you know where the picture is taken in front of the house? I think the registry says some of the parts were used on another car when it was parted out.
I have posted a few other pictures of 5R099 that I have found on the internet. Not sure who took them.
Brian
The commentator on this video says R-model crash at Hallet, but I don't recognize the car. I expect it could be a stock GT350 in R-model trim. Any body know this car?
Cory
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDt-seNwpbc
More that I have of 5R099
More of 5R099
More of 5R099
Cory, Silverton, great photos. Thanks for sharing!
Here's a photo of the car the parts were placed on. It has the car number in the file name as 6s1570.
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/204-070318102849.jpeg)
Hi Richstang,
You beat me to posting this image, taken from an Ebay auction back in 2007. I did copy all the photos from the auction. Below is the description from that auction that talks about the Gerber R-model.
Cory
Legitimate 1966 Shelby GT350H (VIN SFR 6S1570) with a unique history.
This car was shipped by Shelby American to Hertz on March 31, 1966. Some time later in 1966 the car was stolen from Hertz and stripped. My husband's brother bought the stripped car from Marshall Motors, the Cleveland, Ohio, Shelby dealer. Along with a friend who owned 6S005, my brother-in-law bought a wrecked Shelby GT350 race car (5R099 -- the Dan Gerber car). Out of the three cars, they made two. The stock motor from 6R005 went into 6S1570 and some parts from 5R099 were installed into 6S1570 as well (for example, the roll bar and fiberglass rear package shelf).
Here are some photos of 5R104.
These photos were just posted on the Facebook site, "Remembering Mack Yates & CSX2385 & 5R104". I am not sure what the other R-models are in the backgrounds. Does anyone?
If you have an account you can look at many other photos of CSX2385 on this site: https://www.facebook.com/groups/643368829056155/ (https://www.facebook.com/groups/643368829056155/)
Wow, Great find!!!
:o
5r104 photos from back in the day are very rare. I only have three in my file, including one from the registry
The #41 appears to be 5r210 driven by Brad Brooker. These photos are possibly from the 1966 season.
5R001 was restored late 70s when Larry Zane owned it. The guy who built the motor thought it was going to be a museum piece and used hardware store nuts on the rods. One let go at Monterey. Larry had another motor we put in. He then bought a third motor from Randy Gillis that sat in my garage for three+ years. I think that one ended up going with the Donahue car thar Larry owned - it was actually a 6 cylinder car that Penske bought to replace the crashed R Model - if my memory of 30 years ago is right.
Quote from: 98SVT - was 06GT on March 09, 2018, 12:46:48 AM
5R001 was restored late 70s when Larry Zane owned it. The guy who built the motor thought it was going to be a museum piece and used hardware store nuts on the rods. One let go at Monterey. Larry had another motor we put in. He then bought a third motor from Randy Gillis that sat in my garage for three+ years. I think that one ended up going with the Donahue car thar Larry owned - it was actually a 6 cylinder car that Penske bought to replace the crashed R Model - if my memory of 30 years ago is right.
The Donahue car is hard to keep up with. Registry says 5r105 was "lightened up" so much in '65 they had to replace it with a "body in white" for the start of the '66 season. (Was that even a thing back in the mid 60's. I've never hear that term used on anything other than the 2008 and up Cobra Jets powered cars.. These were not the 50 produced each year.) I'm thinking the 6 cylinder car might be this same replacement.
Then when it was sold to Yale Kneeland for the '67 season. A wreck forced them to replace the car's front clip. Later at Marlboro on July 16th, it was rolled in practice. Parts were swapped onto a Hertz rental for the race and removed afterwards. Was that the end of this cars race history? I have to wonder how much of the current car is really 5r105?
Also what about 6s928. Is this Yale's replacement car for the rolled car in early '67?
From what I can tell it was raced though the rest of '67, all of '68, and into '69.
Well, one of the questions being raised without asking the question is how many of the R's are really the original cars?
At what point is the car just a "changeling"? The Donahue car is an example of that. No one knows what goes on "behind closed doors" right?
The Gerber car is another.
Those cars for the most part were "nickle racers" and raced hard. Historical value was hardly a consideration back in the day.
Will any R models restored or not restored be present at the Mid America meet this year? 5R002 possibly?
Best regards,
Richard E.
I believe that the body-in-white was rare, but a real thing. I know of a 1969 BIW that was built into a 1969 Shelby. It was assigned a state serial number.
Quote from: Coralsnake on March 21, 2018, 09:42:48 PM
I believe that the body-in-white was rare, but a real thing. I know of a 1969 BIW that was built into a 1969 Shelby. It was assigned a state serial number.
Thanks for the added input Pete.
Quote from: Coralsnake on March 21, 2018, 09:42:48 PM
I believe that the body-in-white was rare, but a real thing. I know of a 1969 BIW that was built into a 1969 Shelby. It was assigned a state serial number.
Very rare. A friend tried to buy a 69 COPO car and wasn't a big enough name then tried to buy a 69 BIW and was told they weren't offered. I believe even CS never got BIW. I think they had one R Model that was sold as a shell with a 66 # because all the parts came off to use as spares. Saleen got some BIW but also all the panels to assemble himself.
BIW do exist but are hard to track with no vin . tasca built their 69 t/a car from a biw no vin!
The Donahue car, did receive a BIW, being rebuilt, at AER Engineering, in Madison, New Jersey.
The BIW, arrived on Dollies ( like railroad train wheels ) which remained, for many years, lying
on the ground, at the rear, of AER's building.
AER"s owner, stated, the original body shell, was cut up into pieces and thrown in the dumpster.
I think there are more then a few "R's" that are only original in the VIN tag?
Quote from: Coralsnake on March 21, 2018, 09:42:48 PM
I believe that the body-in-white was rare, but a real thing. I know of a 1969 BIW that was built into a 1969 Shelby. It was assigned a state serial number.
In my previous career as a Ford parts manager, we often needed complete body assemblies to repair wrecks. These were ordered as a part thru FoMoCo Parts & Service Div, like pickup cabs & boxes. However they were not unitized serialized bodies like Mustangs so the VIN was not affected. We also sold complete "cab in white" for Ford Louisville semi trucks for a trucking company that hauled new Fords from the assembly plants in Detroit. Ther refurbished the used & rusted trucks with the BIW cabs.
I suspect the Mustang BIW were "managed" orders thru a FoMoCo district manager or direct thru a program ( special vehicle racing ) manager.
regards,
jim p
Pictures of 5R535 found online. I think these were taken a few years ago.
Quote from: silverton_ford on March 25, 2018, 11:15:50 AM
Pictures of 5R535 found online. I think these were taken a few years ago.
Interesting steering wheel choice.
A few photos of 5R100 found online, date unknown.
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/44-050618142601.jpeg)
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/44-050618142654.jpeg)
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/44-050618142730.jpeg)
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/44-050618142759.jpeg)
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/44-050618142844.jpeg)
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/44-050618142919.jpeg)
5R096 pictures found online, date unknown
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/44-050618143144.jpeg)
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/44-050618143210.jpeg)
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/44-050618143237.jpeg)
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/44-050618143301.jpeg)
5R107 found online, date unknown.
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/44-050618143406.jpeg)
5R533 found online, date unknown
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/44-050618143529.jpeg)
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/44-050618143751.jpeg)
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/44-050618143830.jpeg)
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/44-050618143906.jpeg)
The best set of photos I have found documenting an R code are the restoration photos on the Legendary Motorcars web site. Both cars have won concours honors for the originality of the restoration and both cars are owned by the family that originally sponsored the cars so historic documentation for the restorations should have been readily available. R100 and R105. Beautiful cars and a treasure trove for those who are restoring an original or, like me, interested in building a tribute car.
https://www.legendarymotorcar.com/inventory/1965-ford-mustang-shelby-gt350-r-816.aspx
https://www.legendarymotorcar.com/inventory/1965-ford-mustang-shelby-gt350-r-796.aspx
Quote from: mlplunkett on January 25, 2019, 01:32:39 PM
The best set of photos I have found documenting an R code are the restoration photos on the Legendary Motorcars web site. Both cars have won concours honors for the originality of the restoration and both cars are owned by the family that originally sponsored the cars so historic documentation for the restorations should have been readily available. R100 and R105. Beautiful cars and a treasure trove for those who are restoring an original or, like me, interested in building a tribute car.
https://www.legendarymotorcar.com/inventory/1965-ford-mustang-shelby-gt350-r-816.aspx
https://www.legendarymotorcar.com/inventory/1965-ford-mustang-shelby-gt350-r-796.aspx
I looked at the #100 car in 2011 but was not the judge for that category. I saw numerous issues back then as I gave the car a cursory glance. I was surprised when those that were given the task of judging the car came to the conclusion they did. I am not the only one. I only mention this given the LMC write up in the link posted. There are many things that are correct but also many that were/are wrong. The pictures in the LMC slideshow illustrate a few of the incorrect issues that rub salt into the wound so to speak. I don't want to rehash old news because it received a score and that score is now in the past but for the present and in the future it should be understood that although extremely nice it is not a perfect restoration example to go by now or in the future as is implied by the LMC write up . It is undeniably a extremely nice restoration just not perfect.
That last pic in the LMC link looks like the car has an aluminum driveshaft. Did they have those back then?
Quote from: silverton_ford on June 05, 2018, 02:34:09 PM
5R096 pictures found online, date unknown
Pics were taken at Burgol Racings garage/Switzerland and at the Geneva Classics show years a decade ago (last by myself). 5R096 has been sold back to the US meanwhile.
Quote from: shelbydoug on March 22, 2018, 09:49:05 AM
I think there are more then a few "R's" that are only original in the VIN tag?
\
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I would tend ( in Part ) to agree with you Doug.
Maybe not >> only original by Vin>> but pretty dam close
respectfully submitted,
John
Quote from: Harris Speedster on January 26, 2019, 03:05:18 PM
Quote from: shelbydoug on March 22, 2018, 09:49:05 AM
I think there are more then a few "R's" that are only original in the VIN tag?
\
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I would tend ( in Part ) to agree with you Doug.
Maybe not >> only original by Vin>> but pretty dam close
respectfully submitted,
John
Well, you can usually save most of the bolts.
These photos may have been here before, maybe forum 1 ?
5R096 (X Comstock Canada) at Gus Desalus shop aprox 1983.
001 was restored when Larry Zane owned it. He had Rick Titus drive it in a few vintage races. Rick told me the other day that the current owner has it sitting in a carport and has become the new crazy chick that owned the coupe nominee.
Keep that new crazy chick away from fire!!
And pet rabbits.
Quote from: Wedgeman on October 16, 2022, 08:25:39 PM
Keep that new crazy chick away from fire!!
Quote from: deathsled on November 04, 2022, 11:38:07 PM
And pet rabbits.
Only met her twice - should have been in an institution or at least heavily medicated.
001 is sitting in storage. Has been in the same spot for many years. I have personally seen the car a few times and as late as 2019. Still in the same condition of when Larry restored it. I was very honored to be able to see the car and had a surreal moment because I realized that this is a great big World and of all places, I was standing right beside the Shelby Mustang carrying the 001 Serial Number. Wow!
Quote from: tim@hardsteel.net on November 14, 2022, 03:10:36 PM
001 is sitting in storage. Has been in the same spot for many years. I have personally seen the car a few times and as late as 2019. Still in the same condition of when Larry restored it. I was very honored to be able to see the car and had a surreal moment because I realized that this is a great big World and of all places, I was standing right beside the Shelby Mustang carrying the 001 Serial Number. Wow!
It is a big part of the history that Mustangs still enjoy today. After the engine failure at Monterey it sat in the corner of Rick Titus' shop for quite awhile. Larry came out from NJ and we stuck a fresh engine in it - he bought 2 I stored the one he got from Randy Gillis for probably 5 years before he picked it up. When we started to clean the car I sprayed the wheels and 2 of them had cracks where the spokes met the rims. One had cracks around 3 of the spokes - maybe it was a good thing it blew up rather than crashing due to a broken wheel. They were original magnesium. American hadn't started remaking the aluminum ones yet.