Hi all,
I was thumbing through the Virginia Classic Mustang website and came across a part that VCM is selling for 1966 GT350 partial spec (AKA carryover) cars. It is a protective cover/wrap that installs around the rear axle brake lines near the override traction bar brackets, assumed to be protecting the brake line from chafing. I had not seen or heard of this cover/wrap before. I have several questions:
1) Was this a brake line chafing an issue with the 1965 GT350's? Any warranty claims?
2) Was the fix only installed on the 252 partial spec GT350's according to the note with the image for the part.
3) Was the cover/wrap dropped on the GT350's after 6S252? and why was it dropped?
Below is the image and associated text. Thank you Brant for sharing and providing the wraps.
Cory
Panduit spiral wrap. Cheap and easy.
-Keith
None on #373 but who knows If there before. Keen to hear what others say
Cheers
Here was my email reply to Cory:
I have seen quite a few carryovers with this wrap on the rear brake lines as pictured.
Strangely enough, I have never seen it on a late '65 or any '66 (other than a carryover). I have never seen any written documentation from SA about this.
I saw that on one carryover car with a vin in the 180s , but it was not on any of the three I owned ( all in the 200's). The fact that Brent has seen it often is very important. The brake lines had to be "manipulated" because of the over ride brackets. It is possible that more than one person was doing the "manipulation" and took it upon himself to add the sleeving. I've never seen it on a '66 chassis car ( post #252)
Randy
Was this something used on the over ride traction bar equipped cars only?
Quote from: 1967 eight barrel on January 04, 2019, 11:56:09 PM
Was this something used on the over ride traction bar equipped cars only?
Hi 1967 eight barrel,
From what I can tell from the prior posts, it is only the first 252 66's, all with overrides that appear to have received intermittently. Gt350hr (Randy) is suggesting it might have been one individual that was putting them on, thus the
random intermittent installation. There appear to be no records from Shelby American describing the work. There appear to be no cars after 6S252 that received these protective covers. The practice was either dropped or maybe the guy quit or changed jobs.
This is the collective input so far. Thanks for the question.
Cory
Here are pictures of the originals still on 6S030:
It's definitely not a "random installation". I have observed the exact same wrap on enough cars to verify that.
I can see where there may have been some concern early on about the steel brake lines when they introduced the override brackets on the differential. It would be interesting to know if someone just finally realized they were unnecessary, or as Cory said, that guy may have quit or changed jobs. Seems very likely that that guy could still be around but I doubt we will ever know.
Just curious, is there a formal organization for former SA employees?
Karl
6s281
So being this seems limited to vehicles with over ride traction masters, do we see the panduit on 1965 vehicles as well?
6s117 still has the original wrap on the brake line. Quite weathered and fragmented, but still there.
Mike
Quote from: 1967 eight barrel on January 05, 2019, 11:22:45 AM
So being this seems limited to vehicles with over ride traction masters, do we see the panduit on 1965 vehicles as well?
No wrap on 65 is not IMHO typical.
As far as being random - maybe the wrong word. Maybe its better to state at this time that not all of those cars received the wrap. "Random seems to suggest only a few or less than fifty percent.
Note the ground off/modified bolt heads on both of 6S030's original traction bars. (GREAT photos Ruben!)
Then read this 1966 story from Bill Kolb Jr., when he was working at Larsen Ford (White Plains, New York) about the same issue they were encountering with the override traction bars on the Hertz cars:
(http://www.saacforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4282.0;attach=13739;image)
(http://www.saacforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4282.0;attach=13741;image)
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/52-050119183100.jpeg)
Quote from: SFM66H on January 05, 2019, 06:43:57 PM
Note the ground off/modified bolt heads on both of 6S030's original traction bars. (GREAT photos Ruben!)
Then read this 1966 story from Bill Kolb Jr., when he was working at Larsen Ford (White Plains, New York) about the same issue they were encountering with the override traction bars on the Hertz cars:
Believe removing and using a lathe is much more advance engineering than the typical example we find
Quote from: J_Speegle on January 05, 2019, 08:11:46 PM
Quote from: SFM66H on January 05, 2019, 06:43:57 PM
Note the ground off/modified bolt heads on both of 6S030's original traction bars. (GREAT photos Ruben!)
Then read this 1966 story from Bill Kolb Jr., when he was working at Larsen Ford (White Plains, New York) about the same issue they were encountering with the override traction bars on the Hertz cars:
Believe removing and using a lathe is much more advance engineering than the typical example we find
+1. Crude to say in the least.
yep i have seen this on carry overs also
Great pics, what an era, thanks for sharing.
A minor clarification to the material used on this modification: PANDUIT has their version but back in the '60's, the product was called SPIRAP from AMP Incorporated. It's still available from TYCO Connectivity, the company that acquired AMP Incorporated. It's made of NYLON and available in black or white and in various diameters.
https://www.te.com/usa-en/plp/spirap/Znj4.html
Quote from: Bob Gaines on January 05, 2019, 08:17:54 PM
Quote from: J_Speegle on January 05, 2019, 08:11:46 PM
Quote from: SFM66H on January 05, 2019, 06:43:57 PM
Note the ground off/modified bolt heads on both of 6S030's original traction bars. (GREAT photos Ruben!)
Then read this 1966 story from Bill Kolb Jr., when he was working at Larsen Ford (White Plains, New York) about the same issue they were encountering with the override traction bars on the Hertz cars:
Believe removing and using a lathe is much more advance engineering than the typical example we find
+1. Crude to say in the least.
Hi Bob,
Was this clearance problem with the bolt head cured with the kinked override traction bar?
Thanks
Cory
As far as being random - maybe the wrong word. Maybe its better to state at this time that not all of those cars received the wrap. "Random seems to suggest only a few or less than fifty percent."
Since the 65 / 66 production seems to be a series of running changes as feedback from the fielded cars worked it's way back to SAI and I don't think it's logical that a line worker would institute an additional modification on their own.
It would be interesting if someone like Chuck Cantwell or another person very involved in the production could recall when & why this was introduced for a short time of the override bar production ?
I wondered if when they had to pull the brake line away from the axle housing to allow a gap for the axle bracket to be welded, and then push it back close to the housing they noticed the risk of the 2 parts rubbing, and then later determined it was unneccessary?
Or the decision to change to underride bars, they knew it wouldn't be needed soon.
Theory's that beg knowledgeable input ???
regards,
jim p
Quote from: 6R07mi on January 06, 2019, 01:05:07 PM
As far as being random - maybe the wrong word. Maybe its better to state at this time that not all of those cars received the wrap. "Random seems to suggest only a few or less than fifty percent."
Since the 65 / 66 production seems to be a series of running changes as feedback from the fielded cars worked it's way back to SAI and I don't think it's logical that a line worker would institute an additional modification on their own.
It would be interesting if someone like Chuck Cantwell or another person very involved in the production could recall when & why this was introduced for a short time of the override bar production ?
I wondered if when they had to pull the brake line away from the axle housing to allow a gap for the axle bracket to be welded, and then push it back close to the housing they noticed the risk of the 2 parts rubbing, and then later determined it was unneccessary?
Or the decision to change to underride bars, they knew it wouldn't be needed soon.
Theory's that beg knowledgeable input ???
regards,
jim p
The problem is that many of these nuance details where not very memorable by themselves . Unless something else that was more memorable was associated with the detail like a expensive fix , accident etc. I am sure it is hard for them to believe what is expected of them to remember so many decades after the fact.
6s007 & 6s018 both had remnants of wrap
Quote from: TLea on January 06, 2019, 11:14:19 PM
6s007 & 6s018 both had remnants of wrap
Thanks, Tim. Below is my running list – now including the cars you identified. All carryovers.
6s007
6s018
6s030
6s033
6s117
6s135
6s161
Any more out there?
It seems odd that they would produce over 500 1965 GT350s with over-rides without this wrap. Then put some on a few cars and drop the idea. This is one we may never solve. As was previously mentioned, this is a minor item to remember 50-plus years later.
Steve
Steve,
You can add 6S188, to the list, as it had the wrap, too.
Doug
and 6s118 had remains
You mean a bench grinder isn't considered advanced? ;D ;D If you think that's bad, take a look at how the 1967 Shelby tail light openings are cut!
-Keith
Thanks for the additional cars. Here's the updated list:
6s007
6s018
6s030
6s033
6s117
6s118
6s135
6s161
6s188
There's no telling how many other cars may have received that wrap, and it went missing over the years or was casually discarded during repairs or restoration.
Steve