SAAC Forum

The Cars => 1967 Shelby GT350/500 => Topic started by: Richstang on January 07, 2019, 11:32:14 AM

Title: 67 raised taillight panel with NO lip over trunk - Anyone have one on their car?
Post by: Richstang on January 07, 2019, 11:32:14 AM
While chasing the running changes of different taillight panel versions I came across this oddity.
At first I suspected it might be a reproduction. However, those typically have a lip over the trunk which help reduce the warping and improves the seal.

So the question for anyone reading this is...Does your car have this raised panel with NO lip?
If so what is the Shelby VIN number? I'd like to track the build dates of it, if it is a production piece from LAX.
Title: Re: 67 raised taillight panel with NO lip over trunk - Anyone have one on their car?
Post by: roddster on January 08, 2019, 09:36:59 AM
  Just defining the request:  You mean that the tail light mounting area is raised slightly, and then with no sealing lip along the trunk opening  metal.  I think.
Title: Re: 67 raised taillight panel with NO lip over trunk - Anyone have one on their car?
Post by: tesgt350 on January 08, 2019, 09:44:37 AM
Quote from: roddster on January 08, 2019, 09:36:59 AM
  Just defining the request:  You mean that the tail light mounting area is raised slightly, and then with no sealing lip along the trunk opening  metal.  I think.

See Arrow.  The Fiberglass Tail Light Panel top edge looks to be about 1/2 Inch wide and does not over lap onto the Factory Tail Light panel.  The Trunk Weather Striping doe not touch it.
Title: Re: 67 raised taillight panel with NO lip over trunk - Anyone have one on their car?
Post by: Richstang on January 08, 2019, 09:54:52 AM
Yes this is a raised taillight area which is seen on the mid-year to the end of production cars adding much needed trunk space.
Typically these have the lip over the top of the metal trunk area with a notch around the metal bump stops.

Title: Re: 67 raised taillight panel with NO lip over trunk - Anyone have one on their car?
Post by: 1967 eight barrel on January 08, 2019, 10:12:12 AM
I have the flat panel with no overlapping lip. Not easy to get a seal on this type of panel to the body.

                                                                            -Keith
Title: Re: 67 raised taillight panel with NO lip over trunk - Anyone have one on their car?
Post by: Richstang on August 22, 2020, 03:42:31 PM
It been a while since this question was posted. I have still not found any other cars with the raised taillight panel and NO lip over the trunk opening.
Does anyone have/had or ever seen one of these oddities?

The SAI completion date of 3/10/67 for #1061 fits the timing as an early development car for changes to the tail panel.
Perhaps it was a prototype piece (from a new vendor?) that SAI used on a production unit to test.
Title: Re: 67 raised taillight panel with NO lip over trunk - Anyone have one on their car?
Post by: Bob Gaines on August 22, 2020, 04:46:18 PM
I just double checked and my wall art piece with tailights etc. has one of those raised no lip panels. I used it because years ago when I made it I thought that it was PO modified piece and so didn't feel bad about using it as wall art inside of on a car. I have since seen a few on cars but unfortunately the examples were all highly messed with examples that had many originality problems which didn't give me confidence in the originality of th panels. If following the progression it would have to fall into a time frame immediately after the flat panel which of course had no lip. The tailpanels with no lip had a tendency to droop in the middle having no support which was compounding the problem of sealing fumes out of the trunk and hince passenger compartment. If this was a production piece which evidence suggests it was then it must have only been used for a very short period of time . The inferior no lip design was apparently quickly upgraded thankfully.
Title: Re: 67 raised taillight panel with NO lip over trunk - Anyone have one on their car?
Post by: Richstang on August 22, 2020, 08:58:10 PM
Thanks for that info Bob. Good to know they may be a few more out there, even if in very limited numbers.

I agree, it is likely the first revision done, since all the other variations were improved with the lip over the top.

Title: Re: 67 raised taillight panel with NO lip over trunk - Anyone have one on their car?
Post by: BGlover67 on August 23, 2020, 02:02:38 PM
Thanks for posting Rich.
Title: Re: 67 raised taillight panel with NO lip over trunk - Anyone have one on their car?
Post by: Bossbill on August 25, 2020, 08:40:21 PM
Quote from: Richstang on January 08, 2019, 09:54:52 AM
Yes this is a raised taillight area which is seen on the mid-year to the end of production cars adding much needed trunk space.
Typically these have the lip over the top of the metal trunk area with a notch around the metal bump stops.
But mid-year doesn't have the steel/fiberglass trunk lid, like this car.
This car also has the later Ford twin exhaust valance.
My car has the flat panel, no lip and Ford twin exhaust valance.
Title: Re: 67 raised taillight panel with NO lip over trunk - Anyone have one on their car?
Post by: Bob Gaines on August 25, 2020, 09:16:57 PM
I don't see the raised contour on the blue cars tailpanel. It appears to be the flat variety. Which would be typical for a steel innerstructure trunklid car. I took a picture of the raised tail panel without the lip that I have for comparison. The contour is fairly pronounced . I do not see a comparable contour on the blue cars tail panel.It may be a optical illusion but i am missing it.
Title: Re: 67 raised taillight panel with NO lip over trunk - Anyone have one on their car?
Post by: Richstang on August 25, 2020, 10:31:44 PM
Regarding '67 #1061, this link below includes more photos, showing a GT stamped valance. The one photo posted here is difficult to see it at the angle it was taken.
http://www.import-connection.com/index.php?page=item&item_id=769

#1061 was built at Ford SJ 2/14/67 and completed by SAI 3/10/67.
I believe the stamped GT rear valances start appearing on the Ford SJ built cars around early February.
The SAI change notice was sent, and marked received by Ford on 1/25/67. It asked for an immediate running change.

We've seen the tail light panel changes start at SAI (including this car) around early March and continue with the other variations until around mid May. I've was working with JD and Dave, identifying and detailing all the changes, and sorting out when they happened. We have not been able to revisit this as a team since the new registry was put in motion.

The Hybrid hoods and trunks, appear to linger a little bit longer in the production run than initially thought, but this is also ongoing research.
As an example, Dave Mathews found a car completed in the middle of March with the hybrid parts, so #1061 does fit the pattern here.

I'm finding that trying to segment these cars into three distinctive groups (early, mid, and late builds), does not work well to define all the numerous running changes.


Title: Re: 67 raised taillight panel with NO lip over trunk - Anyone have one on their car?
Post by: Richstang on August 26, 2020, 07:57:50 PM
The attached close up photo, pulled from the link posted above, should help clear up any doubts over the type of tail light panel we see on #1061.

Notice the curved recesses between the top edge of the panel and taillights. These curves are enhanced by the white painted stripes. Also, there are shadows created by the raised panel surfaces. These areas are all highlighted in the circles drawn on the photo.

(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/204-260820195056.jpeg)
Title: Re: 67 raised taillight panel with NO lip over trunk - Anyone have one on their car?
Post by: 67 GT350 on August 26, 2020, 08:02:09 PM
Trying to remember but I think 2195 had that also.
Title: Re: 67 raised taillight panel with NO lip over trunk - Anyone have one on their car?
Post by: Bob Gaines on August 26, 2020, 09:43:21 PM
Quote from: Richstang on August 26, 2020, 07:57:50 PM
The attached close up photo, pulled from the link posted above, should help clear up any doubts over the type of tail light panel we see on #1061.

Notice the curved recesses between the top edge of the panel and taillights. These curves are enhanced by the white painted stripes. Also, there are shadows created by the raised panel surfaces. These areas are all highlighted in the circles drawn on the photo.

(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/204-260820195056.jpeg)
The larger picture help convince me of the contour.Thank you. I would have been convinced of a flat tailpanel otherwise. It was a optical illusion for me that no contour could be seen in the smaller picture.
Title: Re: 67 raised taillight panel with NO lip over trunk - Anyone have one on their car?
Post by: Bob Gaines on August 26, 2020, 09:50:52 PM
Quote from: 67 GT350 on August 26, 2020, 08:02:09 PM
Trying to remember but I think 2195 had that also.
It would most likely have the contoured tail panel like all others built about 1000 cars before 2195 and to the end of production. What would be a oddity however is if it didn't have the lip like it should have in the time frame 2195 was built in . Since the cars were not finished in strict order you sometimes have early cars ending up with features typically seen on later production cars but you would not typically have later cars being finished off with earlier discontinued features.   
Title: Re: 67 raised taillight panel with NO lip over trunk - Anyone have one on their car?
Post by: JD on August 26, 2020, 10:31:25 PM
Quote from: Bob Gaines on August 26, 2020, 09:43:21 PM
Quote from: Richstang on August 26, 2020, 07:57:50 PM
The attached close up photo, pulled from the link posted above, should help clear up any doubts over the type of tail light panel we see on #1061.

Notice the curved recesses between the top edge of the panel and taillights. These curves are enhanced by the white painted stripes. Also, there are shadows created by the raised panel surfaces. These areas are all highlighted in the circles drawn on the photo.

(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/204-260820195056.jpeg)
The larger picture help convince me of the contour.Thank you. I would have been convinced of a flat tailpanel otherwise. It was a optical illusion for me that no contour could be seen in the smaller picture.

Seems that the raised amount is a bit less than the next/later version(s) that have the top lip that got riveted and was covered by the deck lid - yes?

Also the cut-outs for the exhaust tips on this car don't seem quite correct for the GT Dual Exhaust valance, maybe they were the hand-cut (early version) modified when restored?  attached another view of the back...
Title: Re: 67 raised taillight panel with NO lip over trunk - Anyone have one on their car?
Post by: Bob Gaines on August 27, 2020, 12:09:11 AM
I would be interested in knowing what kind of light boxes were used. The thin ons or the thick ones.