I originally posted this info on the different original 66 GT350 S2MS Cobra intake manifold variations on forum 1.0 in 2008, about time I got around to reposting. This is just my observations for 66 street cars, would like to hear what others have observed.
The variations are based on three criteria shown in the photos below:
1. Firing Order location:
A. Rear pad
B. Front #5 runner
2. COBRA casting style:
A. Square in the area of the "A".
B. Angled in the area of the "A".
3. Manufacturer stamp on the bottom front casting boss:
A. OECO (stands for Offenhauser Equipment Company)
B. OFFENHAUSER
A number of people with original intakes responded with their Shelby VIN and intake styles back then, please feel free to do that here, hopefully we can update this info. Some VERY general observations on how these fit with 66 GT350 production based on those responses:
1. Rear pad firing order location was found well into production, the front runner location seems to be a fairly late thing.
2. Square casting style found primarily on early cars. I assume the switch to the angled style was to reduce potential distributor interference (?), total speculation on my part.
3. OECO manufacturer stamp also found well into production. The OFFENHAUSER stamp seems to also be a very late detail and roughly coincide with the firing order on the front
runner. For both styles there are 2-3 letters also stamped in the same location, I assume some of these are initials of whoever cast or inspected the intakes.
Ten years later there are probably more details and variations known, please post if you are aware of them...
Thanks,
Dave
(http://wasaac.org/temp/v1.jpg)
(http://wasaac.org/temp/v2.jpg)
(http://wasaac.org/temp/v3.jpg)
Hi Dave,
Very nice again. Can you ID what combination sets of the three variables you have found? There are eight possible combinations shown below. Which combinations have been observed by the community. Respondents can ID the No. combination set 1 through 8 and the SAI VIN. Is there a pattern?
I just checked a loose intake. It is a combination set No. 1. I do not know the history on it and can't say if it was OTC or an assembly line part. Based on you other observations, this would appear to be an early intake with the square COBRA casting style.
Cory
Hi! Can anyone please direct me as to where the manufacturer stamp is located?
Thanks,
Steve
By the way, which one is this one???
Steve
Steve ,
On the underside of the manifold there are two round "post looking" areas. The stamp is on one of those . As an FYI , I have seen genuine assembly line intakes that missed getting stamped with the OECO stamp. They are rare but are out there. The other inspector stamps are there , only the OECO is missing. I have also seen both "posts" stamped as opposed to all on one and even seen a drilled hole into the post.
Others will have other opinions/experiences/observations.
Randy
Quote from: kingchief on January 10, 2019, 11:30:25 AM
By the way, which one is this one???
Steve
Generally it's a '65-66 carryover intake. It is possible some of the post 252 vin cars had them but my experience is that '66 chassis cars had large letter ( S2MS) intakes. without the "notched" A.
Randy
Quote from: 6s1640 on January 10, 2019, 02:04:44 AM
Hi Dave,
Very nice again. Can you ID what combination sets of the three variables you have found? There are eight possible combinations shown below. Which combinations have been observed by the community. Respondents can ID the No. combination set 1 through 8 and the SAI VIN. Is there a pattern?
I just checked a loose intake. It is a combination set No. 1. I do not know the history on it and can't say if it was OTC or an assembly line part. Based on you other observations, this would appear to be an early intake with the square COBRA casting style.
Cory
Hi Cory,
Yeah, I was thinking about combinations when I wrote that, thanks for the chart, makes it easy! I need to find my spreadsheet from the old post which has the reported combo's. Personally I have seen combo's 1, 3, and 8. I'd be surprised if there were any 2, 4, 5, or 6 combo's but who knows. The one I'm curious about is combo 7.
Thanks,
Dave
I'm either category #7 or #8. If I can find the manufacturers casting identifier it will narrow this down.
Quote from: CSX 4133 on January 10, 2019, 01:37:32 PM
I'm either category #7 or #8. If I can find the manufacturers casting identifier it will narrow this down.
They are on the underside so if it's installed you aren't going to see it.
Mine is either a 7 or an 8. The post with the manufacturers stamp has markings that are illegible.
Quote from: shelbydoug on January 10, 2019, 01:46:47 PM
Quote from: CSX 4133 on January 10, 2019, 01:37:32 PM
I'm either category #7 or #8. If I can find the manufacturers casting identifier it will narrow this down.
They are on the underside so if it's installed you aren't going to see it.
Mmm... I'll remove the intake tomorrow then and have a look. Thank you !
Mine is #1 or #2 and is like "a '65-66 carryover intake" [like the photo above that I asked about].
Cheers,
Steve
Hi Steve,
Is your intake a small or large letter COBRA? The S1MS would suggest a small letter COBRA, which falls out of the survey. Dan Case has been watching the small letter intakes and has quite the list of variations. If you have a large letter COBRA, your intake will now add more variables to this survey, the part number on the rear runner, S1MS or S2MS.
I will also note, there is only one vacuum port on your intake, where the S2MS's that Dave is tracking has the two. Again, if your intake is a large letter, this will introduce another variable, one or two vacuum ports.
Cory
I am a combo #1
Cheers
Hi Cory,
Mine is an S1MS with small letters [Cobra]. Yes, you are correct. Mine only has one [1] vacuum port as well. I should have kept quite...never mind.
Thanks for correcting me. I apologize for the confusion on my part.
Cheers,
Steve
I purchased a really nice #8 from a good friend about a year before 6s281 made its way back into my life in Jan 17. I knew that if I ever did get my car back it would need a manifold because I remembered one of the rear mounting ears had been broken off of the original years ago. This manifold has some sentimental value because my buddy I purchased it from has since passed away. After reading this post I realize it is probably the wrong intake for 6S281, sounds like I should have a #1. What say you guys? I would appreciate a knowledgeable opinion and some good advice.
Thanks, Karl
6s281
Quote from: Karguy on January 10, 2019, 11:54:25 PM
...................After reading this post I realize it is probably the wrong intake for 6S281, sounds like I should have a #1. What say you guys? .......
Think it's early in the survey and discussion of findings but I think you might want a S1MS small Cobra one for you application given others I've seen and recorded. By the original post, though not the title, the plan apparently was not to look at all intakes installed during production but just the S2MS variations.
As a side comment - Did notice that the S2MS version with the Thermactor and coil bosses were missing from this survey verses the last discussion.
Quote from: J_Speegle on January 11, 2019, 12:26:24 AM
Quote from: Karguy on January 10, 2019, 11:54:25 PM
...................After reading this post I realize it is probably the wrong intake for 6S281, sounds like I should have a #1. What say you guys? .......
Think it's early in the survey and discussion of findings but I think you might want a S1MS small Cobra one for you application given others I've seen and recorded. By the original post, though not the title, the plan apparently was not to look at all intakes installed during production but just the S2MS variations.
As a side comment - Did notice that the S2MS version with the Thermactor and coil bosses were missing from this survey verses the last discussion.
Yes, I was just trying to focus on the standard 66 GT350 S2MS versions for this discussion, not anything rare like race versions, etc. Changed the title to reflect that. But...if you have an early car after #252 that has an original S1MS intake please post that info, may as well include those.
Jeff,
I did not include the version with thermactor and coil bosses because I was not aware they came on any 66 GT350.
Thanks for the replies so far. If you have an original intake please post the styles and car number and I'll add it to the spreadsheet, hopefully a clearer picture will emerge...
Thanks,
Dave
Karl, 6S280 has a combo set 1 (1A-2A-3A) manifold.
Thanks Roger, good to hear from you. Possible to get pictures of your S1 intake? Ive always figured 280 is my best shot for correct specs for 281.
Thanks, Karl
6s281
Quote from: Karguy on January 11, 2019, 11:37:31 PM
Thanks Roger, good to hear from you. Possible to get pictures of your S1 intake? Ive always figured 280 is my best shot for correct specs for 281.
Just a thought
Hard to tell what car was built the closest to your car especially with this subject since this was a Ford VIN related (since the intakes were installed by Ford) item. But guess since you can't get access to the Ford VIN for other cars with ease you'll have to settle for the Shelby VIN
I don't have a car but I have a combo 3 manifold.
Hey Dave,
The original intake to SFM6S1342 is a #3 combination. Also, even though it is a little bit later car, the casting/assembly dates for the original engine block are fairly early (early-mid October 1965).
Dave
I was able to examine the original engine from 6S264 today. It is not absolutely known, but it was on the car when purchased in 1980, and odds are it is the original intake-- it's a 2A. Will update WRT firing order location later.
I'm not sure if I'd sent this info previously but...
1801 has 1A -2B combination (underside not accessible at present).
2021 had an aftermarket manifold (it was setup for B Prod SCCA) so it remains unknown.
j
Thanks everyone for the continued replies, keep them coming!
James...yes, I have the info on 6S1801 from the previous survey.
Also, any very early non-carryover owners with original S1MS intakes please report those so we can include them.
6S406 currently has an S1MS manifold. Did it come with it from Shelby well I have no idea. Before I had the car restored, photos from early 2000 [furnished by Cobra Automotive] reveal that she had the S1MS manifold. Carb is dated [List-3259] 552. I shall leave this manifold on the car but I just wanted to indicate the possibility. I just cannot definitively confirm that the car had the S1MS manifold from the factory.
Cheers,
Steve
6S477 has the S2MS with a "full" A , not angled. P/N is on #8 runner and firing order ic on the "pad" in the back. Two vacuum ports , It is original to the car.
Randy
Quote from: gt350hr on January 22, 2019, 10:45:55 AM
6S477 has the S2MS with a "full" A , not angled. P/N is on #8 runner and firing order ic on the "pad" in the back. Two vacuum ports , It is original to the car.
Randy
Thanks Randy!
Quote from: kingchief on January 22, 2019, 09:26:26 AM
6S406 currently has an S1MS manifold. Did it come with it from Shelby well I have no idea. Before I had the car restored, photos from early 2000 [furnished by Cobra Automotive] reveal that she had the S1MS manifold. Carb is dated [List-3259] 552. I shall leave this manifold on the car but I just wanted to indicate the possibility. I just cannot definitively confirm that the car had the S1MS manifold from the factory.
Cheers,
Steve
Thanks Steve, 6S406 seems too late for an original S1MS but who knows. Hopefully more early owners with OE S1MS intakes will post here so we can get an idea of the spread for those.
Quote from: gt350hr on January 22, 2019, 10:45:55 AM
6S477 has the S2MS with a "full" A , not angled. P/N is on #8 runner and firing order ic on the "pad" in the back. Two vacuum ports , It is original to the car.
Randy
So we can say that early numbered cars up to 500 are having combo #1?
Cheers
Quote from: GT350Lad on January 22, 2019, 03:16:37 PM
So we can say that early numbered cars up to 500 are having combo #1?
Cheers
Not at this time IMHO
Quote from: J_Speegle on January 22, 2019, 03:18:19 PM
Quote from: GT350Lad on January 22, 2019, 03:16:37 PM
So we can say that early numbered cars up to 500 are having combo #1?
Cheers
Not at this time IMHO
Prob is a bit Early, fair enough, will see what data gets collated
Finally had a chance to compile the info from forum 1.0 and the latest results. Jeff Speegle has also been researching this subject, his observations are included as well. Thanks to Jeff for sharing his info!
Changed the version combinations (chart below) to reflect what has actually been observed, plus changed the version numbers which made more sense to me when plotting in Excel. At this time only cars which had BOTH firing order location and Cobra casting style information were included. We decided not to include the manufacturer marking since it cannot be seen when installed and there were few cars with that info, plus only one car has reported having the Offenhauser stamp so far. As a result v66.4 is not listed on the graph plot, that one car is lumped in with v66.3 until we get more info. Also included early cars after 6S253 with original S1MS intakes (v65.9) but only one car has reported that.
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/236-010420143206.jpeg)
We decided to not post individual VINs but if you reported your car's info you can easily see where it lies. If you don't have the original intake you can see what the cars around yours have...
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/236-010420142539.jpeg)
This info certainly is not meant to draw conclusions what version intake individual cars should have, only to show the information gathered so far. Thanks to all who reported! Please continue to report original intake info! With more data we can get a much clearer picture of these versions throughout 66 production and hopefully fill in the gaps, there is still a pretty big gap between v66.1 and 66.2. I will continue to update the graph as more info is reported. Also, this could easily be expanded to include 65 and 67-68 intake differences. If anyone wants to take that ball and run with it let me know, I'll be glad to help.
Thanks,
Dave
Decided to also post this graph which adds cars without Cobra casting style information AFTER 6S843 with the assumption that cars after that are very unlikely to have the 2A casting style. This data fills the graph in more as a number of owners after 6S843 only reported firing order location. Anyone with an original intake that hasn't already reported please let me know oyur SAI VIN and I'll add it. Thanks!
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/236-010420143458.jpeg)
Nicely done Dave, good discussions ahead
Quote from: GT350Lad on January 28, 2019, 05:29:12 PM
Nicely done Dave, good discussions ahead
+1, super illustration.
Great work Dave, thank you!
I wanted to add that the original engine for 1291 has a 66.2 version.
Malcolm
Hi Dave,
Here is one for you, not on your list, but still a S2MS intake. If not for the COUGAR branding, it would be a No. 8 version or your 66.4.
This is actually the early version of the COUGAR intake. There is a later more common version with the extra bosses near the vacuum ports, like the COBRA version. These COUGAR intakes were never original equipment, but sold though the Mercury dealers and Shelby American. I have only seen two ads for this intake, one in "How to Sharpen a Cougar Claws" brochure and dealer kit and the other in full page Competition Press ad from SAI having a sale.
From my search on the internet, I was not able to find this early version, only the later version (image below), making the early intake pretty rare.
Enjoy
Cory
Hi Cory,
Interesting intake. At some point maybe we can look these OTC versions, and even race versions, and create an "evolutionary tree".
Thanks,
Dave
Here is another of the stamping(s) on one of the underside fills... "3B" if referencing the original post.
I've been trying to help a guy with a '66 determine which he should have.
I did the following to help me, I'll post it here, it has more than just the S2MS versions but some of these others have been brought up and was trying to get a better perspective on them.
Hope this helps...may need to post a larger file (4-7-2020 image added with arrows)
There is a Cougar intake for sale right now in So Cal Craigs list. it is the later version but the price is kind of steep at $1,900. it can be found in the Inland Empire region of Craigs list under the heading of 302.
Quote from: JD on March 30, 2020, 12:05:36 AM
I've been trying to help a guy with a '66 determine which he should have.
What's the SAI VIN?
Quote from: s2ms on April 01, 2020, 01:10:32 AM
Quote from: JD on March 30, 2020, 12:05:36 AM
I've been trying to help a guy with a '66 determine which he should have.
What's the SAI VIN?
+1
Someone might have a car similar and have there original
(sorry I'm not the owner, I've been asked by him to help as this is his first Shelby and not sure he wants the number out there. The car was found after sitting for decades with the last known owner that SAAC had on file and Howard has been very helpful with verifying the car)
The Shelby VIN is a low 20XX number and the San Jose assembly date is thought to be late April '66, (that is not our speculation but a time suggested by those with more knowledge than us) sheet metal date code stampings support that.
The car has the original engine and the Ford VIN present - but it's minus the original intake (the intake that was on the engine is like the 1st one on the left in the group comparison image I posted in reply #39 which others have stated is too early for the car/engine assembly date), carb, distributor, air cleaner, water pump, timing cover. The block and heads have casting date codes of Jan 31, '66 and the issue is the engine assembly date is Feb, 10, '66 If the intake was installed at the Cleveland plant, what were they installing early February of 1966 in Cleveland.
Yes, I have been trying to ask some other owners what they have but not all are certain they have their cars' original. One owner with a Shelby VIN lower by about 100 cars' has the "later S2MS" the 4th form the left in the group comparison image I posted in reply #39, were "they" making/installing that intake at that point in time? (As a comparison the '67 GT350 I had that was one of the first 100 '67 GT350's made at San Jose in October of '66 had this same intake - were they using that from February of '66 through February of '67?)
We think that the owner needs to acquire the "right" intake for the "engine assembly date" more than the cars' VIN number - correct?
Do other owners out there have a car with an original engine and intake/carb with an assembly date around Feb 10, '66 and if so which version of intake does your car have? (silly me I thought '67's were difficult - but then it's Shelby don't look for easy)
Thanks all
JD,
According to the chart 6S20xx is most likely to have version 66.3.
Had a few more cars report since I originally posted the graph in Reply# 32 so updated that today. Also added another graph which adds cars WITHOUT Cobra casting style information AFTER 6S843 with the assumption that cars after that are very unlikely to have the 2A (square) casting style. This fills out the graph more using cars that only reported firing order location. Of course now an original 2A car after 843 will show up and blow that assumption to bits.
Thanks,
Dave
Dave - Thanks for the added input!
(Does that factor the engine assembly date of Feb 10, 1966?)
Quote from: JD on April 01, 2020, 03:05:58 PM
Dave - Thanks for the added input!
(Does that factor the engine assembly date of Feb 10, 1966?)
You bet!
The chart is based entirely on SAI VIN, obviously not the most precise way to do it but the best we can do.
Dave
Quote from: JD on April 01, 2020, 09:32:28 AM
................................. needs to acquire the "right" intake for the "engine assembly date" more than the cars' VIN number - correct?
+1 at least at this point in time. There is discussion and study to see if the engine assembly date is for the completed engine or something short of that
Dave the challenge I have for most of the data I've collected is related to the lack of assembly dates (best date we have at this point) for many of the pictures and often no clear pictures of the COBRA area to go with the other features. And because of that end up for many using the Ford VIN instead to sort data points