I expect a lot of fireworks on this one;
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1965-ford-shelby-mustang-gt-350/?utm_source=transactionalemail&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=bat_model_notification
Location: Huntington, New York 11743
Chassis: SFM5S067
Total Mileage Unknown
Re-created as a race car in 2003
289 V8 with .030" Overbore
Jericho 4-Speed Manual Transmission
Fuel Safe Fuel Cell
Adjustable Penske Shocks
4-Wheel Disc Brakes
F.A.S.T. Cool Suit System
Listed in the Shelby Registry
Private Party or Dealer: Private Party
Model Pages: Ford Shelby Mustang, Ford Mustang 1964.5-1966
Category: American, Race Cars
This 1965 Shelby Mustang GT350 carries Shelby serial number 5S067. According to the Shelby registry, 5S067 was purchased by the original owner Robert M. Stevens of Knox, NY on 6/9/65, who subsequently wrecked the car when it was only 8 weeks old and scrapped it on 8/12/65. In 2003, he built a vintage race car based on a Mustang fastback and used this serial number, which is the car offered today. Power comes from a 289 V8 paired with a Jericho 4-speed manual transmission. The car's first race was at Watkins Glen in 2003, and it competed in SCCA events until approximately 2016. More recently, it has been extensively raced in SVRA Group 6 competition. It has been developed and maintained by Cobra Automotive of Wallingford, Connecticut, and service records covering the seller's ownership are included in the sale. This GT350 reportedly retains the original 5S067 Shelby chassis plate and is being offered in New York with some spares and a clean California title in the seller's name.
Wow, that is like opening Pandora's box! Identity theft
Hate to say it, but the tag is even a repro.
Perfect definition of an Air Car
Quote from: SCJSTU on February 25, 2019, 11:52:38 PM
Perfect definition of an Air Car
Not if the tag isn't even real! Holy cow. At least it isn't white.
I'm curious what percentage of that car is actually 5S067 ? My other thought is how does this car not have a salvage or rebuilt title ?
Quote from: CSX 4133 on February 26, 2019, 06:40:00 AM
I'm curious what percentage of that car is actually 5S067 ? My other thought is how does this car not have a salvage or rebuilt title ?
Just the NUMBERS on the RePopped Tag? What is the VIN# under the Tag?
just spoke to the magnificent carnac and he predicts the following;
also appearing soon another air car...a name came to his mind, jim, gym, mojo risin, douglas, james, lizzard, jimmie...morrison...then the magnificent carnac collapsed
Quote from: CSX 4133 on February 26, 2019, 06:40:00 AM
My other thought is how does this car not have a salvage or rebuilt title ?
no salvage titles back then . hell prob 80% of muscle cars would have them. ;)
Quote from: CharlesTurner on February 25, 2019, 10:41:48 PM
Hate to say it, but the tag is even a repro.
First thing I saw. Close but no cigar. I spent 57 years on that island and can't recall ever seeing this one.
M.
I don't think anyone has any misconceptions that this is in anyway a Shelby. It appears to be a well sorted racecar especially if Kurt Vogt is involved. Who ever buys this will shell out a check for a go fast track car, nothing more nothing less, a little tag does not make this car or any other car something it was not born to be. It would be fun to own, and the price of ownership will reflect a good vintage race car.
...... until the race car gets purchased as a race car and gets converted back to a street car and hits the auction block......
Take the tag off an sell it as a race car ;) .. Hmmmm maybe not as easy as that with a Cali title.. ahhh just go to the RMV an tell em ya made a mistake 8)
Seller posted info in the auction comments...
I think that is why it is only at $5000 currently with 6 days to go......bottom line, it is no Shelby. It certainly caught my eye this morning. My prediction, under $40,000 at the gavel.
Quote from: Grumpy on February 26, 2019, 08:00:57 AM
Quote from: CSX 4133 on February 26, 2019, 06:40:00 AM
My other thought is how does this car not have a salvage or rebuilt title ?
no salvage titles back then . hell prob 80% of muscle cars would have them. ;)
No titles (salvage or otherwise) in NY until 1973. Prior to 1973, they had transferrable registrations. The registration was the ownership document.
If the insurance company paid him off, he wouldn't own what was left anyway.
My bet is he he waited until 2003 because it is highly unlikely NY had any remaining record that it was destroyed.
If he had an old, expired registration, he could just take it into the DMV and renew it.
Even if he did turn in the original registration when he was paid by the insurance company, he could apply for a lost registration by taking a rubbing of a piece of sheetmetal that he stamped. I have yet to hear of anyone having to have a NYS Trooper look at their car to verify.
I am not sure why he would risk getting a California title if they actually inspect the cars.
It would be cool if the original owner added the tag to the car for nostalgic reasons (although I can't imagine he was that attached to the car after only 8 weeks of ownership). The fact that the car is now legally titled with the original Shelby tag leaves a lot open to speculation.
Seems to have been an unnecessary black cloud formed over this car. It looks like a great track car that stands on it's own merits without the tag.
Quote from: Grumpy on February 26, 2019, 10:43:15 AM
Take the tag off an sell it as a race car ;) .. Hmmmm maybe not as easy as that with a Cali title.. ahhh just go to the RMV an tell em ya made a mistake 8)
Isn't the 65 Shelby's Titled to the Shelby Tag under the Hood? If so, wouldn't THAT car be Titled the same way?
Quote from: tesgt350 on February 26, 2019, 02:36:58 PM
Quote from: Grumpy on February 26, 2019, 10:43:15 AM
Take the tag off an sell it as a race car ;) .. Hmmmm maybe not as easy as that with a Cali title.. ahhh just go to the RMV an tell em ya made a mistake 8)
Isn't the 65 Shelby's Titled to the Shelby Tag under the Hood? If so, wouldn't THAT car be Titled the same way?
The original car was destroyed/totaled 8 weeks after it was sold new.
Quote from: CharlesTurner on February 26, 2019, 02:39:15 PM
Quote from: tesgt350 on February 26, 2019, 02:36:58 PM
Quote from: Grumpy on February 26, 2019, 10:43:15 AM
Take the tag off an sell it as a race car ;) .. Hmmmm maybe not as easy as that with a Cali title.. ahhh just go to the RMV an tell em ya made a mistake 8)
Isn't the 65 Shelby's Titled to the Shelby Tag under the Hood? If so, wouldn't THAT car be Titled the same way?
The original car was destroyed/totaled 8 weeks after it was sold new.
Yes, I know but that still doesn't answer my Question. Just because it was Totaled does not mean an Insurance Paid it off and put it in the system as being Totaled.
If the original car still existed, then it would be a problem with both cars having the same tag... (is that what you're inferring?)
One of the comments on the BaT site mentioned that NY did not do salvage titles before 1973 and that maybe the original owner just 'waited out' the system for 35 or so years to reclaim ownership of the title.
understand what everyone is saying...but here is the conundrum
^^
Ya
Guys, why all the false outrage?
This is 'ops normal' in the R model community and everyone turns a blind eye because, uh, 'it's a race car'. Well, uh, so is this one. LEGIT
When I bought my car (a one owner 65) and also a Carryover, both for well south of $500 each I took serious look a buying an R model. They were so hacked out they qualified for junk status. Granted this was back before 'country was cool' but who is kidding who? All this nonsense about 'original sheet metal'...
A case in point, the attached R model ended up basically as a 50/50 transgender 1967 Mustang w it's entire drivetrain long gone (Sepp Reiter's car). Heck it even has a 67 grille in this interim pic. Was it Conley who initially brought it back?? Not sure. It has since been 'totally restored' as a 1965 R model and changed hands at the highest levels of value. Nary a question..... cause it's a 'race car' and they, um, 'changed engines all the time back then'.
Same w many many others. No different than this car for sale now.
Steve
SFM5S339
Quote from: CharlesTurner on February 26, 2019, 03:04:03 PM
If the original car still existed, then it would be a problem with both cars having the same tag... (is that what you're inferring?)
One of the comments on the BaT site mentioned that NY did not do salvage titles before 1973 and that maybe the original owner just 'waited out' the system for 35 or so years to reclaim ownership of the title.
No, he took the Tag off the Wrecked Shelby and used it on a Mustang (the new car), Which Title is he using since the DMV uses the Shelby Tag for the VIN#. Is the Shelby Title being used or is the Mustang Title being used, easy question to understand. If it is the Shelby Title being used for the new Body then what happened to the Mustang Title?
Quote from: tesgt350 on February 26, 2019, 04:43:44 PM
No, he took the Tag off the Wrecked Shelby and used it on a Mustang (the new car), Which Title is he using since the DMV uses the Shelby Tag for the VIN#. Is the Shelby Title being used or is the Mustang Title being used, easy question to understand. If it is the Shelby Title being used for the new Body then what happened to the Mustang Title?
The tag on the car now is a repro, clear as day. I don't see anywhere that indicates the original tag was saved from the original 5S067.
The owner stated that when he bought the car, he got a CA title in his name, which is in the auction images. That title has the Shelby number. I see no mention anywhere of the Mustang VIN. For all we know, there aren't any VIN stampings in the aprons at all. There's only a couple clues that the body used was probably manufactured around December 64/January 65. Can't even say for sure if it's a Dearborn or San Jose unibody.
Quote from: tesgt350 on February 26, 2019, 04:43:44 PM
Quote from: CharlesTurner on February 26, 2019, 03:04:03 PM
If the original car still existed, then it would be a problem with both cars having the same tag... (is that what you're inferring?)
One of the comments on the BaT site mentioned that NY did not do salvage titles before 1973 and that maybe the original owner just 'waited out' the system for 35 or so years to reclaim ownership of the title.
No, he took the Tag off the Wrecked Shelby and used it on a Mustang (the new car), Which Title is he using since the DMV uses the Shelby Tag for the VIN#. Is the Shelby Title being used or is the Mustang Title being used, easy question to understand. If it is the Shelby Title being used for the new Body then what happened to the Mustang Title?
I respectfully disagree. No the tag off the Wreaked Shelby was NOT used on the Mustang (new car). I lost count how many times Charles mentioned that it is a repro tag. I agree the tag in the picture appears to be a reproduction when you compare it to other genuine tags. It is doubtful that any part of the original car tag or otherwise is present on the re creation. I wonder if the aprons are blank or if a Ford vin is present and what car it is from . I wonder if the title to the donor car is included if other Ford VIN's not associated with the Shelby tag are present . Just some legality issues a potential buyer would want to consider if acting prudently. It is good to know all of the possible risks that these kinds of questions bring up before plunking down the money.
Quote from: 2112 on February 25, 2019, 09:39:15 PM
This 1965 Shelby Mustang GT350 carries Shelby serial number 5S067... This GT350 reportedly retains the original 5S067 Shelby chassis plate and is being offered in New York with some spares and a clean California title in the seller's name.
Bottom Line - seems like a lot of fiction based on everything discussed above ??? ::) :o
There are federal laws governing, and the legal wording may vary from state to state compounding the responsibility of, but basically as I understand it, only a registered manufacturer may assign a V.I.N. to a vehicle intended for the registration for use on public road systems; and it is looked upon with negative connotation if a person should invoke the terms: knowingly, "to taper with", "altering", "obliterating", "removes", or perhaps in this case "affixes" of such V.I.N. identification, which I feel would include from one vehicle to another, or even creating ones' own (repop plate), perhaps except, with provisions by the individual state, permitting a "Homebuilt", and this is generally identified as such on the title. ;)
Now, for "Off-Road Use Only", have at it, as it is at that point defined only as a piece of "Equipment", not a "Motor Vehicle". But, about that title? :o
And, just because someone gets by the local D.M.V. and has a title in hand which may state such, does not make such truly fact; example: how many Cobra kit/reproduction/replica/continuation or whatever are there titled and registered as 1965's even displaying "Antique" tags, and are obviously far from it! ::)
Scott.
Quote from: madeulook on February 26, 2019, 11:21:29 AM
I think that is why it is only at $5000 currently with 6 days to go......bottom line, it is no Shelby. It certainly caught my eye this morning. My prediction, under $40,000 at the gavel.
I might buy this for sub $40k. I've been looking for a dedicated vintage track car for a long while now.
QSS
Quote from: mark p on February 26, 2019, 07:17:31 PM
Bottom Line - seems like a lot of fiction based on everything discussed above ??? ::) :o
Yep, for sure!
An original below...
Quote from: Bob Gaines on February 26, 2019, 05:14:59 PM
Quote from: tesgt350 on February 26, 2019, 04:43:44 PM
Quote from: CharlesTurner on February 26, 2019, 03:04:03 PM
If the original car still existed, then it would be a problem with both cars having the same tag... (is that what you're inferring?)
One of the comments on the BaT site mentioned that NY did not do salvage titles before 1973 and that maybe the original owner just 'waited out' the system for 35 or so years to reclaim ownership of the title.
No, he took the Tag off the Wrecked Shelby and used it on a Mustang (the new car), Which Title is he using since the DMV uses the Shelby Tag for the VIN#. Is the Shelby Title being used or is the Mustang Title being used, easy question to understand. If it is the Shelby Title being used for the new Body then what happened to the Mustang Title?
I respectfully disagree. No the tag off the Wreaked Shelby was NOT used on the Mustang (new car). I lost count how many times Charles mentioned that it is a repro tag. I agree the tag in the picture appears to be a reproduction when you compare it to other genuine tags. It is doubtful that any part of the original car tag or otherwise is present on the re creation. I wonder if the aprons are blank or if a Ford vin is present and what car it is from . I wonder if the title to the donor car is included if other Ford VIN's not associated with the Shelby tag are present . Just some legality issues a potential buyer would want to consider if acting prudently. It is good to know all of the possible risks that these kinds of questions bring up before plunking down the money.
I understand it is a Repop Tag, I misspoke when I said he took it off the Shelby, He used the Shelby VIN# from the Shelby. If there is a Mustang VIN# any where on that Car and there is no Mustang Title for that VIN# and all you get is the Title with the Shelby VIN#, can't the FBI come in and take the Car?
Quote from: tesgt350 on February 27, 2019, 07:46:40 AM
I understand it is a Repop Tag, I misspoke when I said he took it off the Shelby, He used the Shelby VIN# from the Shelby. If there is a Mustang VIN# any where on that Car and there is no Mustang Title for that VIN# and all you get is the Title with the Shelby VIN#, can't the FBI come in and take the Car?
Guess it depends on what the rules are for race cars. The auction car is clearly not street legal.
Isn't this why SAAC still exists, to protesct history, heritage, and give credit to the honest and discredit the dishonest.
No matter what a fool and his money shall soon part.... :o
FYI: It's at $23,456 this morning....might go over 40K. No mention of horsepower but Cobra Automotive lowest is way more than any massaged K code. It would be one fun car to run on the track.
I had to laugh when I read the add... Comes with a 9k tach. Anyone who has ever seen or heard one of Kurt Vogt's race cars knows it will need every bit of that 9k tach ;D Good luck on a well sorted race car I'm sure.
I just sold one of my race cars last month.
It sold it with a bill of sale and no title or registration. It had a VIN, but since it is not to be used or titled for street use and is currently illegal for that use (no lights, etc) it doesn't need to be titled or registered.
I'd venture to say that half of the race cars in my racing Conference aren't titled.
When I bought my Boss it did not have a title since the state (Alabama) it came from treated old, used cars like appliances. Alabama didn't care about "ownership" -- they only cared that it had a tag or registration so they could tax it for road use. A title did not exist. When I bought it my state required a notorized release of interest from the owner as they considered a title to be the "ownership" document.
And in this state they needed that ownership document to issue a title and registration.
The release of legal interest sufficed, in this case.
Personally, the owner should just hang on to the title and put it in a frame.
The car stands on its own as a race car and the whole Shelby tag deal just muddies the water.
Somebody should buy the car for its intended purpose, destroy the tag and create a wall hanging for the title.
$30,000 with 3 days to go....
Quote from: madeulook on March 01, 2019, 09:25:39 AM
$30,000 with 3 days to go....
Surely the reserve is way more than that. Seems it would take at least 6 figure to duplicate this build. There should be zero value placed on the plate/title.
The action happens in the last few minutes.
I think it has to be a $70,000 car. $65K if he is desperate.
with this california title this could be a great opportunity for someone to make a substantial return on investment
understand that saac will not recognize its validity, but to a very wealthy person in the usa, europe or asia that will keep it locked up, use it sparingly and show to their friends as a trophy
friends or people who dont understand what a shelby is or are removed or unaware of saac, it truly wont matter
to make it perfectly clear we are not bidding or have an interest in this vehicle
the phrase today is R.O.I.
Quote from: FL SAAC TONY on February 26, 2019, 03:13:28 PM
understand what everyone is saying...but here is the conundrum
$32,500 - 23 hours to go
The seller hasn't done himself any favors in marketing this Mustang. No details or pictures of the underside, brakes or suspension. No details or specifics on the engine/transmission and explanation of Cobra Automotives involvement in the car. No video's of the car on track or even idling. I'd be surprised if it brings more than 58k.
less than 2 hrs to go. No price increase yet from the $32.5
51K bid, reserve not met.