SAAC Forum

The Cars => 1965 GT350/R-Model => Topic started by: TJinSA on March 14, 2019, 08:39:45 PM

Title: Who installed the lockers in 65 Shelbys?
Post by: TJinSA on March 14, 2019, 08:39:45 PM
It's been my experience the 'L' stands for limited slip, not Locker. While a limited slip will drag the outside wheel if having been parked for a while, they do not have the ratcheting experience of a Locker.

While that may be true, on the early GT350s, Detroit Lockers were offered and installed, rather than Traction Locks.

Who installed the lockers in 65 Shelbys? Did SAI breakdown a rear diff and replace the spool? or did Ford install them when they built the rearend?  If it was an RPO Ford would have done it, if not, SAI did the work.  Chuck Cantwell was pretty clear when describing the coordination of the building of the basic car that Ford fltly refused to do ANYTHING that was't an RPO.
Title: Re: Who installed the lockers in 65 Shelbys?
Post by: Bob Gaines on March 14, 2019, 10:08:57 PM
It's been my experience the 'L' stands for limited slip, not Locker. While a limited slip will drag the outside wheel if having been parked for a while, they do not have the ratcheting experience of a Locker.

While that may be true, on the early GT350s, Detroit Lockers were offered and installed, rather than Traction Locks.

Who installed the lockers in 65 Shelbys? Did SAI breakdown a rear diff and replace the spool? or did Ford install them when they built the rearend?  If it was an RPO Ford would have done it, if not, SAI did the work.  Chuck Cantwell was pretty clear when describing the coordination of the building of the basic car that Ford fltly refused to do ANYTHING that was't an RPO.
Both Ford and SA installed them . It was typically a early late thing. SA did it to begin with and later they got Ford to do it.  A sure sign of a Ford install is the L on the rear end tag.
Title: Re: Who installed the lockers in 65 Shelbys?
Post by: GT350Lad on March 14, 2019, 10:31:11 PM
I have a early 66 locker installed car and it has a L on the rear end tag. On the order paperwork I got from Howard Pardee it was ordered that way from SA. That’s interesting that Ford installed it for SA, so the sequence of events is: order form came from dealer to SA, SA placed order to ford for K code car with locker?

Cheers
Title: Re: Who installed the lockers in 65 Shelbys?
Post by: TJinSA on March 14, 2019, 11:17:29 PM
The Master Parts Catalog shows a DACO no-spin spool for the full-size cars ??? I'll eat a big crow on this one.  :-X
Title: Re: Who installed the lockers in 65 Shelbys?
Post by: gt350hr on March 15, 2019, 10:36:31 AM
  Tom ,
   DAPCO = Detroit Automotive Products Co. The original name of the company. My notes are very few were done by SAI ( mainly by tag codes ).



GT350Lad

      Can you post a picture of your tag with the L on it?  My notes (again) are that '66s ordered with a locker , had the locker in the trunk . IF it came with it installed , the change would have been done at High Performance Motors (IMHO) before the sale , similar to the way radios were done. I haven't seen a C6ZX tag with the L designation in all my years of owning and studying these cars. There is always room for a first and I am anxious to add to my "I've seen that" experience.  Not doubting you at all.
   Randy
Title: Re: Who installed the lockers in 65 Shelbys?
Post by: GT350Lad on March 15, 2019, 04:01:31 PM
All good Randy I’ll find my pics, it’s not a C6ZX it’s a C5ZX tag dated very late in the year. It’s pretty beat up too

Cheers
Title: Re: Who installed the lockers in 65 Shelbys?
Post by: Brant on March 15, 2019, 08:41:41 PM
  Tom ,
   DAPCO = Detroit Automotive Products Co. The original name of the company. My notes are very few were done by SAI ( mainly by tag codes ).



GT350Lad

      Can you post a picture of your tag with the L on it?  My notes (again) are that '66s ordered with a locker , had the locker in the trunk . IF it came with it installed , the change would have been done at High Performance Motors (IMHO) before the sale , similar to the way radios were done. I haven't seen a C6ZX tag with the L designation in all my years of owning and studying these cars. There is always room for a first and I am anxious to add to my "I've seen that" experience.  Not doubting you at all.
   Randy

Here is the tag that is on 6S1066 (SA invoice shows " 'NO SPIN' REAR AXLE" at a cost of $114.50):

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/mY9iKEA8YNYaJQpCCTUVINoWktvaPZ22ZMufwzu-O7NJRmlFIyi1pfQOx1_0PvKtKR2lPYWhHuNhb594wKwvUk8oSzoFO_iP39T98C_Hxs8_Ty7k6NzVENgbgyfGoNv6HQyEMQ3RD9OaC1AeIpMtBND4TBe4iMTN_zaPrazCwq5A6yIQMp4NjZ4k6AKtFaWKKHx_XBTPDha_WZrlB2GSxan876cP5cnOyy2q8CBDH48spkee2m4JhBW24T3GdTyvl4S64C47q6oTxQdNoSQzQMAxG-t_WPtgN4TA358lbRK8fNciWuK4tLdW0FC5USYCIFY9z3Q4cuFVOrgxdZpVSRQLA0mjMGORbS75C6OKkblcF-xpSJyw4QzqsYUyzt6DZ8b-9en4F7oEdI6LPWRoLt2QzYC3H1_ZJP2Zc8zzL57PT90brnXflCNt3x2x27CGPHU28Yba2eZgo0BYhIl1iVczkG4raDgN7NJI-eSGlMfUMld4IhjjiNXtirohAUZZp1_rT9He9IBZvuoZ9UwuKuxlEvbBUQLBoVrHDZpXgrO4_NFYEbcbKpbgG7BA3OZ8wc5Nzntn5H00CkQva4xvGu1Ri2ndfPdgFT2Ue2DJAgp1HYt4CVOm6g9NP6FOupT3V6qFSGR2luV7Fn_nf2rCkxIHkUVVgsU5=w489-h378-no)
Title: Re: Who installed the lockers in 65 Shelbys?
Post by: TJinSA on March 15, 2019, 09:18:38 PM
Thanks, Brant.
Title: Re: Who installed the lockers in 65 Shelbys?
Post by: GT350Lad on March 15, 2019, 11:34:10 PM
Thanks, mine is a bit different

C5ZX-A
3L89    5LA  SP

I’ll get pics up
Title: Re: Who installed the lockers in 65 Shelbys?
Post by: TJinSA on March 16, 2019, 01:29:51 AM
Does SAAC have a list of those VINs/SFM#s known to have been delivered from San Jose with Lockers, or is that information only derived by a case by case basis looking at Billing/Invoices?  How many do they know of?
Title: Re: Who installed the lockers in 65 Shelbys?
Post by: GT350Lad on March 16, 2019, 05:09:45 AM
I am sure Howard would possibly have the figures; otherwise it’s possibly in the registry
Cheers
Title: Re: Who installed the lockers in 65 Shelbys?
Post by: Bob Gaines on March 16, 2019, 05:12:47 PM
Probably not too many got the Detroit locker C5ZX(Ford installed) in 66. Given the vast majority of cars were built on speculation the ones built with options like the locker rears were most likely limited to the buyers who were willing to wait for a special ordered vs. one that was already on the lot or in the pipeline that didn't have the locker/limited slip and have the dealer install one.    The locker was made a option for 66 starting with Job#1 according to SA memos.  The Detroit locker or the Eaton Trac-Aid limited slip were typically dealer installed as needed or requested.
Title: Re: Who installed the lockers in 65 Shelbys?
Post by: GT350Lad on March 16, 2019, 07:17:06 PM
Thanks Bob for the info. What’s the different tags mean? DSO at the start vs just the C5ZX tag?
Cheers
Title: Re: Who installed the lockers in 65 Shelbys?
Post by: GT350Lad on March 17, 2019, 02:24:25 AM
Here is tag
Cheers
Title: Re: Who installed the lockers in 65 Shelbys?
Post by: gt350hr on March 18, 2019, 11:26:36 AM
   Interesting! The tag marking procedure is consistent with '65 versus '66 "Calender year" not "model year" . Tags "before" Jan 1 do not have the DSO before the C5ZX. It is also interesting to note that the suffix changed from A (Dec '65 built) to B ( Feb '66 built). It is "my " educated opinion that the  C5ZX - B diff was ordered as a "service" third member from Ford by SAI and "changed out" . "Service" third members had a new tag in the box back then as I bought a few myself from the late Ray Wolfe (rip) at his shop in Inglewood Ca. When you bought an Equa lock or Detroit locker from Ford , there was a blank tag ( except for the L) in the box. I still have a couple of those.
      Open to other opinions / information,
            Randy
Title: Re: Who installed the lockers in 65 Shelbys?
Post by: Helmantel on April 05, 2019, 12:58:03 AM
Speaking of rear axles: where the wider drums also installed at Ford?

In magazine articles they sometimes speak of "the cars got station wagon rear axles". Is there any truth to that? I mean, did they  installe a complete 65 Fairlane stationwagon 9 inch assembly instead of the regular Mustang K code 9 inch or did they just swap the brakes and install a new center section in the Musang axle?
Title: Re: Who installed the lockers in 65 Shelbys?
Post by: gt350hr on April 05, 2019, 11:37:14 AM
  Magazine information has a tendency to "evolve" from what actually happened.  Here are the facts as I know them Two  different 9" housings were made especially for the Mustang with the 289 high performance engine option. A '65 "round back" version with a small square headed pipe plug to add fluid and a '66 version with a "half round" back plate with a large hex headed plug for filling. SAI vehicles had a special differential assembly that used these housings and added '63 Fairlane station wagon "spec" backing plates and 2-1/2 brake drums along with "Velvet Touch" metallic shoes (and high temp hardware). The '65 differentials were 3.89 with a 28 spline Detroit locker and all the "round back " version. '66 "carry overs" and "some" early '66 chassied cars ( like 6S 476 and 477 among others) had the round back housings but "most" '66's had the "half round" housing and "open differentials ( standard) The '66s DID retain the full metallic brake set up from '65. SO the axle assemblies were NOT station wagon assemblies but did have station wagon sourced brakes.
    Hope that clears it up a bit . Ask more if you are still unclear.
      Randy
Title: Re: Who installed the lockers in 65 Shelbys?
Post by: 6R07mi on April 05, 2019, 12:51:00 PM
  Magazine information has a tendency to "evolve" from what actually happened.  Here are the facts as I know them Two  different 9" housings were made especially for the Mustang with the 289 high performance engine option. A '65 "round back" version with a small square headed pipe plug to add fluid and a '66 version with a "half round" back plate with a large hex headed plug for filling. SAI vehicles had a special differential assembly that used these housings and added '63 Fairlane station wagon "spec" backing plates and 2-1/2 brake drums along with "Velvet Touch" metallic shoes (and high temp hardware). The '65 differentials were 3.89 with a 28 spline Detroit locker and all the "round back " version. '66 "carry overs" and "some" early '66 chassied cars ( like 6S 476 and 477 among others) had the round back housings but "most" '66's had the "half round" housing and "open differentials ( standard) The '66s DID retain the full metallic brake set up from '65. SO the axle assemblies were NOT station wagon assemblies but did have station wagon sourced brakes.
    Hope that clears it up a bit . Ask more if you are still unclear.
      Randy

I believe the Fairlane had a different track or leaf spring mount spread, remember the Mustang is a Falcon platform until 1967, either way the housing is a different #.
Pulling the Fairlane station wagon / taxi drum brake package and bolting it up was a simple upgrade, all C3OZ parts.

regards,

jim p
Title: Re: Who installed the lockers in 65 Shelbys?
Post by: gt350hr on April 08, 2019, 10:53:02 AM
  Correct Jim . C5ZZ and C6ZZ housings are different than the Fairlane  housings. The brakes were an easy "upgrade".
      Randy
Title: Re: Who installed the lockers in 65 Shelbys?
Post by: Helmantel on April 09, 2019, 05:39:44 AM
  Magazine information has a tendency to "evolve" from what actually happened. 

I agree. Whenever I read something about a topic that I know a lot about, and find the different errors, it reminds that those articles on topics that are new to me also must be full of errors :)

SO the axle assemblies were NOT station wagon assemblies but did have station wagon sourced brakes.
    Hope that clears it up a bit . Ask more if you are still unclear.
      Randy

That was my understanding too, but thought I'd ask to make sure now that the topic was up.
Title: Re: Who installed the lockers in 65 Shelbys?
Post by: gt350hr on April 09, 2019, 11:59:17 AM
 It's always safer to ask than assume.   I have known several magazine writers.  Often the information they were given was a bit skewed. Back in the day term station wagon was associated with heavier duty parts and IIRC even some Ford ads mentioned that station wagon sourced parts were used. Writers took that as verbatum and put it in their articles but it was actually out of context. MANY photos of parts and engines had incorrect notations back then.
   Randy
Title: Re: Who installed the lockers in 65 Shelbys?
Post by: GT350Lad on June 16, 2019, 04:15:42 AM
Thanks Randy, I only just saw your post. Appreciate the insight into the locker tags.

Cheers