My GT500 has the original carbs. They have been "rebuilt" a couple of times with mostly OK results. They leak again. I have the dreaded vapor lock and based on recommendations from this forum have acquired the spacers and hardware to reduce the vapor lock issue. Since I am taking off the carbs, I am wondering why not install replacement carbs? I can store the originals so they won't go missing for folks wanting those. Has anyone used a more recent carb setup and, if so, what have you used?
Charlie D
http://www.cobranda.com/19shgtrebjho.html
Same new BJ/BK carbs but $100s cheaper -
http://carlsfordparts.com/main.html?carbs.html~content
A couple of thoughts -
*The new carbs would allow you to put away your original carbs so if theft is a concern, that is a plus.
*The vapor lock most likely will be present no matter old or new carbs unfortunately.
*Do you feel you could trouble-shoot your carbs with the help of the forum?
*If not, I would highly recommend pulling them off the car and sending to Joe Bunetic. Joe has many satisfied customers on this website and did a great job rebuilding my BJ/BK set. (618) 402-5062 to reach Joe.
Charlie- There are many variables to your question, if you are an original guy rebuild what you have, if you need looks but not so much performance get the repops, if you want to go fast without problems or a high invoice sheet go with Edelbrocks. They come in 650 cfm or 750cfm if your engine needs that much, for approx. 700 dollars you can be trouble free, go like hell, and be happy with your ride. Good Luck. ;)
You could put a pair of 1850's on there too.
Edelbrock's? Geese! Who let that guy in here? ;D
Quote from: 427heaven on March 21, 2019, 04:44:42 PM
Charlie- There are many variables to your question, if you are an original guy rebuild what you have, if you need looks but not so much performance get the repops, if you want to go fast without problems or a high invoice sheet go with Edelbrocks. They come in 650 cfm or 750cfm if your engine needs that much, for approx. 700 dollars you can be trouble free, go like hell, and be happy with your ride. Good Luck. ;)
Are you saying the repops won't match the original carb's performance? Why not?
They will be the same performance wise, but for the cost some people might not want to spend that kind of coin on a non original set of carbs. They look original until you look closer, if its performance he is after there are many possibilities. I like Edelbrocks they are a reproduction of the vintage Carters which Cobras, Shelbys, Hemis, and everybody else used. They are economical, easy to tune, make great out of the box performance so whats not to like. The most bang for your buck... A few hundred $ VS a few thousand $ the choice is his.
The pain of the Holley's is part of the experience of the journey. Carters are mechanical secondaries. Holley's are vacuum.
That was looked at in 1963 and the Carters were largely dismissed.
You can go on a real safari with real life threats or you can go on a simulated one in Disney World and not even get your feet wet? Owning and using one of these cars is hardly a virtual reality presentation.
;D
Quote from: shelbydoug on March 22, 2019, 07:26:50 AM
Carters are mechanical secondaries.
;D
Although there were special applications (mostly racing) were Carter produced a truly mechanical secondary carburetor, I believe others in the WCFB and AFB series generally used a "weighted air valve" or in the AVS series used a "spring tension air valve" to control air volume ingress rates thru the secondaries, even though the throttle blades may be opened. :)
Scott.
At this point in my life I am a cruiser, not a racer. I want to keep the dual quad configuration because it is part of the character of the GT500. I am not someone who will erase the potential for originality, so change without destruction is OK with me. This car sat for long periods of time, then had very limited use. So I am sorting it out to make it a more reliable weekend, go get an ice cream, local drives cruiser. The repop Holleys look good, but they are expensive. I also don't like a lot of chrome shiny stuff, so the polished carbs tend to turn me off. From what I have read on the forum, the spacers will definitely help with the vapor lock, so that issue should be minimized. So any suggestions for something less costly than the repops and without the high polish would be great. If you have experience with this, even better. Thanks for any input.
Charlie D
Quote from: charlie D on March 22, 2019, 01:13:28 PM
At this point in my life I am a cruiser, not a racer. I want to keep the dual quad configuration because it is part of the character of the GT500. I am not someone who will erase the potential for originality, so change without destruction is OK with me. This car sat for long periods of time, then had very limited use. So I am sorting it out to make it a more reliable weekend, go get an ice cream, local drives cruiser. The repop Holleys look good, but they are expensive. I also don't like a lot of chrome shiny stuff, so the polished carbs tend to turn me off. From what I have read on the forum, the spacers will definitely help with the vapor lock, so that issue should be minimized. So any suggestions for something less costly than the repops and without the high polish would be great. If you have experience with this, even better. Thanks for any input.
Charlie D
Sounds like rebuilding or at least regasketing the originals would be the most cost effective solution. Regardless of what is under the hood it could be stolen if you park the car unattended for long periods in a security . That kind of careless care taking is not typical for Shelby enthusiast's. Just my opinion .Best of luck with what ever you decide.
Quote from: pbf777 on March 22, 2019, 01:03:47 PM
Quote from: shelbydoug on March 22, 2019, 07:26:50 AM
Carters are mechanical secondaries.
;D
Although there were special applications (mostly racing) were Carter produced a truly mechanical secondary carburetor, I believe others in the WCFB and AFB series generally used a "weighted air valve" or in the AVS series used a "spring tension air valve" to control air volume ingress rates thru the secondaries, even though the throttle blades may opened. :)
Scott.
You need the whomp of the vacuum secondaries opening as part of the character of the car. Take the original engine out and put in a Cheve if you're afraid of it being stolen.
Never marry a pretty woman. Marry an ugly one. If she runs away...who cares?
Shelby Doug & Bob Gaines- I'm at work ....... having a tough day. While at lunch looked at the SAAC forum and your comments are funny + helpful. Keep up the good work! thanks for making me laugh! Fred
Edelbrock's? Geese! Who let that guy in here? (that is comedy gold!)
Quote from: rraceme on March 22, 2019, 02:25:31 PM
Shelby Doug & Bob Gaines- I'm at work ....... having a tough day. While at lunch looked at the SAAC forum and your comments are funny + helpful. Keep up the good work! thanks for making me laugh! Fred
Edelbrock's? Geese! Who let that guy in here? (that is comedy gold!)
;D
There's a pair of repop BJBK carbs for sale on the FE Forum (www.fordFE.com) for a very good price. Not Mine.
I am running the re-issue obtained via Carl's Ford Parts. He supplies everyone else as he contracts with Holley to manufacture them. They are better in many ways than the older version. If you have them rebuilt make sure the builder is well known and the throttle shaft bores are re-bushed.
-Keith
I finished the carb switch, so here's what I ended up doing. I bought a pair of Holley 4160 600 CFM carbs, one with an electric choke and one without. These are aluminum single fuel inlets with vacuum secondaries so they mimic the originals in function and are slightly lower CFM. I took the advice for the 1/4" phenolic spacer and related hardware to minimize the vapor lock issue. The new carbs come with a fuel fitting that sits sideways along side the fuel bowl, so that needed to be replaced with a straight out the side fitting in order to use my current fuel lines. The rear, manual choke, carb has a large vacuum port that points forward between the two carbs. That port is in the way of the throttle linkage, so it was removed, tapped, and plugged with 1/8 NPT plug. The base of the carb is also shaped forward where that vacuum port is and that forward shape is in the way of the flat mounting bracket for the throttle linkage. So the bracket had to be modified for clearance. I cut the bracket to mount on each side of the carb with no center section. It is still solid, but the alignment is critical to prevent binding. The next fiddly piece is the new carbs float adjustment screws are round and tall, so they interfere with the air cleaner base. I tried a 1/2" spacer, but it was too tall for the hood to close--touched. I made a spacer about 1/4" thick from some neoprene rubber and that allowed good clearance. Start up was uneventful, ran smoother than I can remember. The idle was much too high and it took a little fiddling between the idle adjustments on the carbs and the linkage to get that right.
I am now ready for a road test when the weather turns dry and will know how the vacuum secondaries work under load and if they need any adjustment. Overall, I am pleased with what I have right now. Wonderful not to have any leaky carbs! I figure I will send the original carbs out for a rebuild while that can still be accomplished and store them for someone who wants to go to a fully original setup. Thanks again to all of you who gave me part numbers and suggestions on this project, they were invaluable. Couple of photos attached.
Charlie D
You should apply for a Doctorate of Carburetor Technology. The only issue is, there are few that know or understand what you are talking about?
I do. You have my vote. Nice going...except all of that polished aluminum. I need special glasses to see it?
I stayed with the green/gold/crud original finish. It matches my Keds sneakers and cuffed Chinos better. ;D
I would go ahead and remove the mechanical choke components as they apparently serve no useful purpose; if not be sure to mechanically lock the plate in the open position, often just a section of stiff wire engaging the cable retention bracket to the choke lever arm will suffice. That is if you didn't already, as the photo does not clearly depict such, at least for my eyes anyway.
Scott.
Quote from: charlie D on June 10, 2019, 09:34:02 AM
I finished the carb switch, so here's what I ended up doing. I bought a pair of Holley 4160 600 CFM carbs, one with an electric choke and one without. These are aluminum single fuel inlets with vacuum secondaries so they mimic the originals in function and are slightly lower CFM. I took the advice for the 1/4" phenolic spacer and related hardware to minimize the vapor lock issue. The new carbs come with a fuel fitting that sits sideways along side the fuel bowl, so that needed to be replaced with a straight out the side fitting in order to use my current fuel lines. The rear, manual choke, carb has a large vacuum port that points forward between the two carbs. That port is in the way of the throttle linkage, so it was removed, tapped, and plugged with 1/8 NPT plug. The base of the carb is also shaped forward where that vacuum port is and that forward shape is in the way of the flat mounting bracket for the throttle linkage. So the bracket had to be modified for clearance. I cut the bracket to mount on each side of the carb with no center section. It is still solid, but the alignment is critical to prevent binding. The next fiddly piece is the new carbs float adjustment screws are round and tall, so they interfere with the air cleaner base. I tried a 1/2" spacer, but it was too tall for the hood to close--touched. I made a spacer about 1/4" thick from some neoprene rubber and that allowed good clearance. Start up was uneventful, ran smoother than I can remember. The idle was much too high and it took a little fiddling between the idle adjustments on the carbs and the linkage to get that right.
I am now ready for a road test when the weather turns dry and will know how the vacuum secondaries work under load and if they need any adjustment. Overall, I am pleased with what I have right now. Wonderful not to have any leaky carbs! I figure I will send the original carbs out for a rebuild while that can still be accomplished and store them for someone who wants to go to a fully original setup. Thanks again to all of you who gave me part numbers and suggestions on this project, they were invaluable. Couple of photos attached.
Charlie D
Too bad that vacuum secondaries do not have a vacuum port so that a hose can be run from on to another which equalizes the vacuum between the two like the factory duel four carburetors. It will not be quite as smooth given the secondaries might not be opening at exactly the same time like they typically do when equalized..
I also have a pair of repops I will sell for half the price of new ones.
They are bj/bk but no date codes.
Quote from: Bob Gaines on June 10, 2019, 11:21:56 AM
/quote]Too bad that vacuum secondaries do not have a vacuum port so that a hose can be run from on to another which equalizes the vacuum between the two like the factory duel four carburetors. It will not be quite as smooth given the secondaries might not be opening at exactly the same time like they typically do when equalized..
The "conversion" kit for this is: Holley # 20-28 consisting of two covers each with vacuum ports to aid in the synchronization.
Scott.
Does the conversion kit transform them from dueling to dual? (Sorry Bob I couldn't resist)
Quote from: JD on June 10, 2019, 05:47:46 PM
Does the conversion kit transform them from dueling to dual? (Sorry Bob I couldn't resist)
;D
I couldn't get the reproductions to run right no matter what was done. Holley must have went off-shore.
Drew is a noted rebuilder and one of the few that know them in and out, not to mention concours restoration and correction.
These were mine.
Look at the reason why they wouldn't then after he blueprinted them and installed them on his 427 Galaxie and tuned them.
Sadly it shows the current quality. Even some of the air bleeds were two different sizes.
http://fepower.net/simplemachinesforum/index.php?topic=7534.0