Has anyone seen this episode on MT TV? The story behind the prototype "Phil spector" Daytona Coupe. The one Dr Simeone has in his colllection. Seems the story they tell isn't the one I have read about a few times and one being in the Shelby American. So which story is true? Gary
I saw the episode yesterday and really enjoyed it. I have no previous story so I just took it at face value. Will be interested to learn more. Great show though.
The Dorks hosting it are something else.
It's funny you ask about this episode, as I (literally) just watched it this past weekend. From what they present, it matches with the stories I've read in the past about the car.
What was different in the stories you've read in the past? Just curious, as I'm not an expert on the history of this car.
is this the show with the 2 nerds, short and tall, difficult to watch so much repeating and nonsense speculation and the "curse" BS.
Would also help if they got some facts/statements correct.
They have incorrect information on a lot of things I heard last night , Ive seen pics of this car sitting outside behind John Oharas house in the late 70s
well this story was written before the court dates I believe so it is much different than the show. I thought the mother sold the car to the broker after finding an offer in the deceased Daughter's paperwork then the Daughter's male friend sued because he had been given the car from the Daughter. SAAC did a story on it way back then. this story is from July 2001. https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a15149002/death-deception-and-the-4-million-cobra-feature/
John gave his Daughter the car when he went through a divorce i also believe so he didn't give it to her upon purchase from Phil Spector. Am I right on that also? Mother got the car out of the storage unit just before it was confiscated for back storage bills. The friend went to get the car and it wasn't there IIRC. somebody got a SAAC link to the SAAC article anywhere?
Dad (was Specter's bodyguard) bought car from Spectre for $1,000. Daughter ended up with it. I don't know how. The divorce story was she would have to give ex hubby 1/2 value of car and she hated him so much she'd never sell it. I know of at least 20 offers that she turned down. One was a house in Newport Beach. The "buyer" put it in escrow and when the time came she backed out. We went and offered her a paperbag full of money. She seemed receptive and told us to come back next weekend. We went and found out she had moved. The new renters told us she worked at Tiffany's in South Coast Plaza. We went there and as soon as she saw us she came unglued and told us to get out and never come back or she'd call security. Before she committed suicide she signed the title and gave it to her friend. About a week after he went to the storage place and found mom had removed the car and sold it for 2 million. He filed stolen car report. Mom quickly spent/hid the money. Buyer ended up paying another 2 million (I heard that amount) to the friend for clear title to the car. Spectre also claimed ownership after she died but that went away quickly since he was no longer on the pink. I have pointed out on several occasions the current story on the purchase is not what went down - but it makes a cleaner story than the buyer refusing to return the car, hiding it and finally having to pay the going rate at the time.
Refer to great article is past Shelby American, sometime is the past 10? years.
Quote from: 68blk500c on March 25, 2019, 11:19:55 PM
Refer to great article is past Shelby American, sometime is the past 10? years.
YES that story is pretty much on lines with what I said and "98SVT-was 06GT" added(some parts I didn't know). There was a court hearing and spector's "OJ Simpson" Lawyer Shapiro showed up and quickly went away. The IRS was closely watching as they wanted their cut(estate tax laws at the time). So waht was said the mother paid the IRS and the male friend got waht was left of it. So the mother blew something like 1/2 mil to a mil, IRS was paid and then the guy got what was left. The Cobra shared storage space with other cars including a GEO Metro IIRC. I'll try and find the SAAC story and post the links. Simeone said he purchased the car off of Daughter before she died but that isn't truw according to court hearings that were reported and many articles from back in the day. I think if the guy held a signed over title then it wasn't bought "clean" to begin with? Just an observation? Not saying the broker or Simeone did anything wrong but the trailer park Mom probably sold it not knowing it was willed/given to the guy. Gary
This article from 2002 says Simeone bought the car from Dorothy Brand-the mother. Pretty much this is what the SAAC article said. https://autoweek.com/article/car-news/cash-settles-daytona-coupe-case-wheres-historic-racer-now
recent CNN article. Can you say FAKE NEWS?? ;D
https://www.cnn.com/style/article/shelby-daytona-cobra-coupe/index.html
The "TV story" was missing a ton of information. The whole deal was MUCH more complex and FAR more people were involved. The storage facility was less than a mile away and owned by a friend's dad. They knew the car was there and were patiently waiting to "obtain" it for non payment of storage fees . All of a sudden the back fees were paid up and the car was removed. That's when the fireworks began. IMHO Dr Simeone ( thankfully) "out monied" all the road blocks thrown at him and triumphed .
Randy
Quote from: gt350hr on March 26, 2019, 10:33:15 AM
The "TV story" was missing a ton of information. The whole deal was MUCH more complex and FAR more people were involved. The storage facility was less than a mile away and owned by a friend's dad. They knew the car was there and were patiently waiting to "obtain" it for non payment of storage fees . All of a sudden the back fees were paid up and the car was removed. That's when the fireworks began. IMHO Dr Simeone ( thankfully) "out monied" all the road blocks thrown at him and triumphed .
Randy
Yes, the writers, and researchers if there were any, should be fired. Hype writing and directing for mass consumption skewing the facts for false drama which is not needed - there was more than enough drama in the reality of this story.
Thankfully the car is now in hands of those that make sure it's preserved as part of (American) Automotive history. Thank you Dr. S!
(great museum too, go there if you ever get a chance)
^^Agreed. After the Daytona story, they went into another 'mystery' car , an Alfa, I think, and spent another 15 minutes on it, or so. All
their previous episodes covered only one car. They could have done the same here and easily had the material to do it.
I think about 50% of the story they told was bogus. They never said anything about Donnas Husband. and if i recall they got the time line wrong on her suicide and didnt mention the stuffed animal she was holding which was spooky. As for the sale, my friend Larry Miller called me and told he made the deal to purchase the car as he had been in contact with the agent for a couple weeks . A week later he called and told me the guy stiffed him and it sold it to someone else for what he said was less money that he had already agreed upon. He speculated that the agent must have made a side deal with the buyer who at the time was not known.
Im glad Simeone has decided not to restore it and gets it out for the public to see like he did at Goodwood - maybe we'll se it at SAAC!
The good Doctor's Foundation Museum is indeed incredible. I'm lucky to be only about 1/2 hour drive away, and thus can go almost any time.
I have heard Dr Simeone speak about the Coupe on quite a few occasions, he is pretty low-key about how he bought it. IMHO, he would prefer not to deal in hype or drama - just the cars and their important history. Promotion of the Museum is likely needed to keep attendance (and a few $$) flowing in.
Where exactly is the museum?
- Phillip
Quote from: propayne on March 26, 2019, 06:09:19 PM
Where exactly is the museum?
- Phillip
Here's a link...
https://www.simeonemuseum.org/the-collection
Address: 6825-31 Norwitch Dr, Philadelphia, PA 19153
Thanks JD, that is within striking distance plus I have family in Philly
- Phillip
Years ago i was lucky enought to have the chance to sit in that coupe & let me tell you its not designed for husky guys like me as i had to be pulled back out of that car after having a hard time just getting in the drivers seat. I went to see the lemans winning gt40 twice in last 6 months at the henry ford museum & would have a hard time deciding which special car i would really want (if i ever had the chance to choose yeah right haha). So what do you guys think which car is more valuable? & which car is more historically important ? since the coupes are much rarer than the gt40s or is racing history more important than the complete real interesting story behind the coupe ? Both cars have to rank in the top of the list of american cars.
Quote from: shelbymann1970 on March 26, 2019, 05:27:50 AM
Quote from: 68blk500c on March 25, 2019, 11:19:55 PM
Refer to great article is past Shelby American, sometime is the past 10? years.
IRS was paid and then the guy got what was left.
I don't know if he got $$ from the mom as she pretty much gave/hid it all when problems cropped up. The friend did get a (above what was paid to mom) large chunk of money from the buyer as he had legal ownership of the car - but not possession.
The car is small, a bit rough and perfect the way it is
I've been "up close and personal" to it a couple of times
Thanks to the good Doctor to making it available to see
Quote from: acman63 on March 26, 2019, 04:19:26 PM
I think about 50% of the story they told was bogus. They never said anything about Donnas Husband. and if i recall they got the time line wrong on her suicide and didnt mention the stuffed animal she was holding which was spooky. As for the sale, my friend Larry Miller called me and told he made the deal to purchase the car as he had been in contact with the agent for a couple weeks . A week later he called and told me the guy stiffed him and it sold it to someone else for what he said was less money that he had already agreed upon. He speculated that the agent must have made a side deal with the buyer who at the time was not known.
Im glad Simeone has decided not to restore it and gets it out for the public to see like he did at Goodwood - maybe we'll se it at SAAC!
+1 Jim At least 50% was bogus. This wasn't a wham bam , sold deal. The seller was "shopping" for the biggest wallet. Several people I know "had a deal" to buy it. I think when the IRS came calling with their hand out the seller became highly motivated.
None of the "in family" legal ownership drama was mentioned on the TV program. They certainly down played Donna's psychosis and all that drama. It was like "OK she's dead , now let's make money on this car and go party." Dr Simeone remained focused on ownership instead of drama and got the car.
Randy
Quote from: propayne on March 26, 2019, 06:09:19 PM
Where exactly is the museum?
- Phillip
In general, "next door" to the Philadelphia airport (PHL), off I-95 at the extreme south end of the City.
I had not read or heard anything about this car or story till this post!
Interesting to say the least and a lady who sure had some struggles.
Can't imagine being set ablaze let alone doing it to yourself!
Quote from: acman63 on March 26, 2019, 04:19:26 PMher suicide and didnt mention the stuffed animal she was holding which was spooky.
It's spookier than that she was holding her pet rabbit that she torched along with herself. I only met her twice - first seemed normal second a totally different person that you would not want living next door.
Quote from: Special Ed on March 26, 2019, 11:35:09 PM
Years ago i was lucky enought to have the chance to sit in that coupe & let me tell you its not designed for husky guys like me as i had to be pulled back out of that car after having a hard time just getting in the drivers seat. I went to see the lemans winning gt40 twice in last 6 months at the henry ford museum & would have a hard time deciding which special car i would really want (if i ever had the chance to choose yeah right haha). So what do you guys think which car is more valuable? & which car is more historically important ? since the coupes are much rarer than the gt40s or is racing history more important than the complete real interesting story behind the coupe ? Both cars have to rank in the top of the list of american cars.
If I had to say which one is more important I'd say the Daytona coupe. Why? Because without the success of the Daytona coupes would Ford had turned to Shelby to beat Enzo at LeMans? Food for thought.
I, too, am glad Dr S. got the car also as he is a godsend to our hobby buying all those cars and not hiding them away.
So is there anywhere online where the SAAC story from "back in the day" is found? If not when I get the time I'll find it and copy it and post. Gary