Trying to fit the spare in the trunk without success, it's hanging on the inboard socket. As demonstrated in the attached photo the taillight assembly protrudes into the trunk more on the inboard side than the outboard side. I don't remember if the socket access openings are of equal or varying depth or not. If they are of varying depth then is it possible the assemblies are upside down, or swapped left and right, or something? If of equal depth then any ideas as to what's gone wrong?
Thought I'd ask before tearing it all apart.
Thanks for the help -
DGSOH
I hear you! And, I'd guess that all early 67 Shelby owners have struggled with the same issue, given the extra depth of the taillight boxes.
The best success I've had involved letting air out of the spare. Then, I was able to make it fit. It was still tight, but doable.
Hope this helps! 👍🏻
Quote from: Shelby_r_b on May 23, 2019, 06:41:12 PM
I hear you! And, I'd guess that all early 67 Shelby owners have struggled with the same issue, given the extra depth of the taillight boxes.
The best success I've had involved letting air out of the spare. Then, I was able to make it fit. It was still tight, but doable.
Hope this helps! 👍🏻
Thanks Ruben - Yes I thought about that and I'm sure it'll fit that way but... means I need to carry an air pump too : )
I didn't install the taillights myself and don't remember their shape exactly, like are they tapered fore/aft or port/starboard (oops, an old life creeping back) in some way, is there a correct top/bottom or left/right orientation and is it possible to get wrong, etc.
I almost forgot to ask - is your spare a radial tire? Those tend to be on the larger side.
I don't remember for sure if the boxes tapper at all, but I believe they don't on an early 67. They do tapper top to bottom on a later 67, presumably for this reason.
I do remember seeing the bottom of my forearms after finally getting that spare in, and they looked as if I had used them to chop wood. The top lip on the tail panel tore me up!
Even the E 70 15 speedway fit tight in the early cars with the deeper tail light boxes. Not that it will make a difference with fit of the tire but thought I would mention that the repro taillight harness in your trunk is the style for a much later car.
I did not know that they used 2 by 4's on the tail lights....Do they go on the outside of the car or inside?
Just being funny...
Quote from: Frankie on May 23, 2019, 10:35:53 PM
I did not know that they used 2 by 4's on the tail lights....Do they go on the outside of the car or inside?
Just being funny...
2 x 6's and 8's, I mean I really tried to get that spare in there! Now I'm just kidding, used to prevent the tire from wedging up against the taillight.
Quote from: Shelby_r_b on May 23, 2019, 08:35:29 PM
I almost forgot to ask - is your spare a radial tire? Those tend to be on the larger side.
I don't remember for sure if the boxes tapper at all, but I believe they don't on an early 67. They do tapper top to bottom on a later 67, presumably for this reason.
I do remember seeing the bottom of my forearms after finally getting that spare in, and they looked as if I had used them to chop wood. The top lip on the tail panel tore me up!
I have both but the Speedway is just a little taller. The BFG radial is just a little wider presenting its own challenges in a different plane.
It is normal to see the inboard sockets protrude into the trunk more than the outboard. If you are good you can file and shape the "wing" part of the inboard socket(s) to gain maybe a quarter inch or so of clearance before anyone would notice any modification. Of course if the studs are interfering they can be whacked off some (yours look like they may be sticking out a little further than typical).
the 6 studs (each side) were nipped-off with bolt cutters to shorten them - this leaves a very nasty sharp, rough edge on each. If you're not getting the car judged then you may want to shorten more and smooth the ends.
(Bob is correct on the wiring for a very early car, this early would be two loose wires from socket-to-socket. might want to fuss with the socket gaskets some too.)
This fitment issue is thought to be why the raised Shelby fiberglass tail light panel came to be, those also have shorter (not as deep) in trunk tail light box/brackets all to provide more trunk space for the spare. Note all of this because the Shelby's got a +1 wheel tire combo - 15 inch wheels and tires vs the standard Mustang 14 inch stuff - and the unique Cougar tail lights.
For a diver, anyone use a B9 style space-saver?
I asked the same question a few years back when I tried to get my spare in no. 83. I found a modern BFG radial didn't fit without removing a whole lot of air. A speedway (large Lettered) bias ply just fit with some encouragement.
Quote from: JD on May 24, 2019, 08:54:26 AM
the 6 studs (each side) were nipped-off with bolt cutters to shorten them - this leaves a very nasty sharp, rough edge on each. If you're not getting the car judged then you may want to shorten more and smooth the ends.
(Bob is correct on the wiring for a very early car, this early would be two loose wires from socket-to-socket. might want to fuss with the socket gaskets some too.)
This fitment issue is thought to be why the raised Shelby fiberglass tail light panel came to be, those also have shorter (not as deep) in trunk tail light box/brackets all to provide more trunk space for the spare. Note all of this because the Shelby's got a +1 wheel tire combo - 15 inch wheels and tires vs the standard Mustang 14 inch stuff - and the unique Cougar tail lights.
Back in the day we used to just grab the excess with a pair of vice-grips or water pump pliers and work back and forth until they snapped. The result wasn't very clean but left no sharp edges and cut line just below the face of the nut.
Yes, I think I remember a thread or 2 on the old forum about the early harness. I know it shouldn't be taped but the feeds were red and black with green and black pigtails on the repro and it seemed a reasonable compromise just to cover it all up with tape. Sadly a couple of the original sockets were damaged (like cut through the boot into the conductor, not by me) during disassembly so I had to make one of those decisions of compromise we all face on these journeys.
I was thinking about those gaskets JD, like maybe I can work them back into the boxes and get some wedge going providing I can push the housing out a little. Tell me, will the housing come loose and flop around in the box if I loosen the 6 nuts or is it like the lens flange is in part holding the housing in place as well?
Thanks!
Quote from: 67350#1242 on May 24, 2019, 08:30:25 AM
It is normal to see the inboard sockets protrude into the trunk more than the outboard. If you are good you can file and shape the "wing" part of the inboard socket(s) to gain maybe a quarter inch or so of clearance before anyone would notice any modification. Of course if the studs are interfering they can be whacked off some (yours look like they may be sticking out a little further than typical).
Thanks - that's one of the things I was after. I don't think I'll be reshaping the housing anytime soon though... it fit before (well, presumably as I've only had a steel wheel as a spare since I've owned it), it'll fit again.
Quote from: DGSOH on May 24, 2019, 03:36:59 PM
Back in the day we used to just grab the excess with a pair of vice-grips or water pump pliers and work back and forth until they snapped. The result wasn't very clean but left no sharp edges and cut line just below the face of the nut.
Yes, I think I remember a thread or 2 on the old forum about the early harness. I know it shouldn't be taped but the feeds were red and black with green and black pigtails on the repro and it seemed a reasonable compromise just to cover it all up with tape. Sadly a couple of the original sockets were damaged (like cut through the boot into the conductor, not by me) during disassembly so I had to make one of those decisions of compromise we all face on these journeys.
I was thinking about those gaskets JD, like maybe I can work them back into the boxes and get some wedge going providing I can push the housing out a little. Tell me, will the housing come loose and flop around in the box if I loosen the 6 nuts or is it like the lens flange is in part holding the housing in place as well?
Thanks!
If you loosen the 6 nuts (some) you may be able to wiggle the assembled units some but be carful. Might try some lube (liquid dish soap) and plastic tool to push the gaskets in a bit. They don't fit great.
If I remember right, the aluminum exterior trim piece captures the red lens, gasket, fiberglass rear panel and light body as an assembled unit. There is a photo of a table full of these assemble units ready to install on the rear-end of the cars in the 2011 registry. Will try and post a copy of the image.
Edit - image from SAAC Registry 2011 page 780, note what the guy is assembling not just the stacks of light units.
Quote from: JD on May 24, 2019, 04:20:41 PM
Quote from: DGSOH on May 24, 2019, 03:36:59 PM
Back in the day we used to just grab the excess with a pair of vice-grips or water pump pliers and work back and forth until they snapped. The result wasn't very clean but left no sharp edges and cut line just below the face of the nut.
Yes, I think I remember a thread or 2 on the old forum about the early harness. I know it shouldn't be taped but the feeds were red and black with green and black pigtails on the repro and it seemed a reasonable compromise just to cover it all up with tape. Sadly a couple of the original sockets were damaged (like cut through the boot into the conductor, not by me) during disassembly so I had to make one of those decisions of compromise we all face on these journeys.
I was thinking about those gaskets JD, like maybe I can work them back into the boxes and get some wedge going providing I can push the housing out a little. Tell me, will the housing come loose and flop around in the box if I loosen the 6 nuts or is it like the lens flange is in part holding the housing in place as well?
Thanks!
If you loosen the 6 nuts (some) you may be able to wiggle the assembled units some but be carful. Might try some lube (liquid dish soap) and plastic tool to push the gaskets in a bit. They don't fit great.
If I remember right, the aluminum exterior trim piece captures the red lens, gasket, fiberglass rear panel and light body as an assembled unit. There is a photo of a table full of these assemble units ready to install on the rear-end of the cars in the 2011 registry. Will try and post a copy of the image.
That's what I'm afraid of - if all that's sandwiched together without any slop for the light body to move aft (and shim with the gasket or bushings on the studs) then I'm not sure there's anything to be gained. That's what I think I need to do, move the light body aft about 0.25" -> 0.5" to get the clearance I need for the tire.
I have the registry, I look there. All I'll need is some 100x reading glasses. We're so spoiled with technology these days : )
Thanks JD.
Quote from: 2112 on May 24, 2019, 10:53:25 AM
For a diver, anyone use a B9 style space-saver?
A BFG B9 7.75 X15 at about 1500.00 + or - would not be the most economic choice. A 7.35 X14 for a 69 B2 or 69/70 Shelby wouldn't be ether. The 1970 B2 F70 14 is just a little less pricey. There are many spacer saver alternatives that are economical and that work but just not the Boss or Shelby ones which are not practical for a driver 67 Shelby .
FYI I have a G 78 X 14 NOS space saver that a friend had in his 69 Shelby as a low price alternative (he finally stepped up ;) ) that I would sell for 35.00 plus shipping.
QuoteThat's what I'm afraid of - if all that's sandwiched together without any slop for the light body to move aft (and shim with the gasket or bushings on the studs) then I'm not sure there's anything to be gained. That's what I think I need to do, move the light body aft about 0.25" -> 0.5" to get the clearance I need for the tire.
Tightening the nuts in the trunk will pull everything inward; tail light housing, bezel, lens and the tail light panel. They can be overtightened. When I redid mine I added stop nuts to the studs that fit on the aft side of the box - this limited the distance that the assembly could be pulled inward but still allowed to snug up the nuts for a tight fit. It took some patience to get everything adjusted but now the nuts can be tightened without pulling in and distorting the tail panel. I believe you can gain some clearance there by the look of the round rubber gaskets protrusion into the trunk.
Quote from: Bob Gaines on May 24, 2019, 05:56:47 PM
FYI I have a G 78 X 14 NOS space saver that a friend had in his 69 Shelby as a low price alternative (he finally stepped up ;) ) that I would sell for 35.00 plus shipping.
P/M for more information
What a cluster.
With the lens and bezel off, the fixture housing loose and the trap door unlatched I can get the spare in – with pretty much zero clearance to spare. There are spacers on the fixture housing mounting studs except they're about 0.25" short. I'd bet if you cinched the bezel tight first the housing would land where it needed to be. Problem there is the bezel studs would be taking most of the load, probably causing the bezel to deform and crack like so many I've seen.
The cluster part is in order to fix it properly, like having appropriate length spacers, means removing the fixture housing, which means removing the tail panel, which means removing the bumper, etc..
Unless of course someone has worked through this same issue given the same parameters (car already assembled, full size spare, etc..) and is willing to share their resolution?
Thanks -
DGSOH
Question: Should the socket gaskets be fully clamped between the fixture box and the fixture? I found a photo I took at SAAC 41 and though not necessarily conclusive I'd say maybe so? I remember looking at the way mine protrude through the box and thinking they're not doing much good given the gap . In addition they've been like this since I've owned the car so I thought nothing of it.
Thanks -
DGSOH
Quote from: 67350#1242 on May 24, 2019, 08:26:18 PM
Tightening the nuts in the trunk will pull everything inward; tail light housing, bezel, lens and the tail light panel. They can be overtightened. When I redid mine I added stop nuts to the studs that fit on the aft side of the box - this limited the distance that the assembly could be pulled inward but still allowed to snug up the nuts for a tight fit. It took some patience to get everything adjusted but now the nuts can be tightened without pulling in and distorting the tail panel. I believe you can gain some clearance there by the look of the round rubber gaskets protrusion into the trunk.
Though sure to rile the purists (I'm kidding) I like this from a functional perspective.
they would be very hard to see if someone did this...
Quote from: DGSOH on May 27, 2019, 08:48:30 AM
Question: Should the socket gaskets be fully clamped between the fixture box and the fixture? I found a photo I took at SAAC 41 and though not necessarily conclusive I'd say maybe so? I remember looking at the way mine protrude through the box and thinking they're not doing much good given the gap . In addition they've been like this since I've owned the car so I thought nothing of it.
Thanks -
DGSOH
the gaskets don't sit very well or evenly from hole to hole, partly because as stated/observed above the tail light units protrude more or less depending on which hole in the series you looking at. My earlier suggestion was to try and get them to be as even as you can, that's all.
Quote from: JD on May 27, 2019, 09:07:18 AM
the gaskets don't sit very well or evenly from hole to hole, partly because as stated/observed above the tail light units protrude more or less depending on which hole in the series you looking at. My earlier suggestion was to try and get them to be as even as you can, that's all.
Thanks JD.
So that I'm clear, the socket gaskets are, or are not, intended to be clamped between the fixture and the box?
Yes, backing nuts would be hard to see... sure would make me feel better about the whole thing too.
the gaskets fill in some of the gap between the socket and the bracket.
Quote from: BGlover67 on May 24, 2019, 12:48:49 PM
I asked the same question a few years back when I tried to get my spare in no. 83. I found a modern BFG radial didn't fit without removing a whole lot of air. A speedway (large Lettered) bias ply just fit with some encouragement.
What size BFG Brian, 225?
01375 has the early style, deep light box and the fiberglass taillight panel that does not have the metal "L" to hold the panel tight to the body. The taillight panel is supposed to be held in by the 4 studs and the clamping effect of the assembly. Sure, you betcha.
I'm doing an assembly of the car for the painter to check gaps, adjust, ad naseum and from DGSOH's picture it looks like the pop rivets on the boxes are installed from the inside of the trunk with the "bulge" of the pop rivet to the outside. I seem to recall that's how mine were installed, but I took this thing apart many years ago.
Is this direction correct?
I also seem to recall the rivets were aluminum color, not black. Correct?
I know this assembly will get put in after paint, but I might have to get clever with the top ridge of the 'glass taillight panel to get it to fit prior to my painter doing gaps.
Quote from: Bossbill on November 01, 2019, 11:16:13 PM
01375 has the early style, deep light box and the fiberglass taillight panel that does not have the metal "L" to hold the panel tight to the body. The taillight panel is supposed to be held in by the 4 studs and the clamping effect of the assembly. Sure, you betcha.
I'm doing an assembly of the car for the painter to check gaps, adjust, ad naseum and from DGSOH's picture it looks like the pop rivets on the boxes are installed from the inside of the trunk with the "bulge" of the pop rivet to the outside. I seem to recall that's how mine were installed, but I took this thing apart many years ago.
Is this direction correct?
I also seem to recall the rivets were aluminum color, not black. Correct?
I know this assembly will get put in after paint, but I might have to get clever with the top ridge of the 'glass taillight panel to get it to fit prior to my painter doing gaps.
Rivets put in from the trunk side. FYI it is not unusual for not all rivet holes to be used on the boxes . I have seen some that were held in with 2 or 3 rivets on ether side.Yes aluminum color rivets.
Quote from: Bossbill on November 01, 2019, 11:16:13 PM
01375 has the early style, deep light box and the fiberglass taillight panel that does not have the metal "L" to hold the panel tight to the body. The taillight panel is supposed to be held in by the 4 studs and the clamping effect of the assembly. Sure, you betcha.
I'm doing an assembly of the car for the painter to check gaps, adjust, ad naseum and from DGSOH's picture it looks like the pop rivets on the boxes are installed from the inside of the trunk with the "bulge" of the pop rivet to the outside. I seem to recall that's how mine were installed, but I took this thing apart many years ago.
Is this direction correct?
I also seem to recall the rivets were aluminum color, not black. Correct?
I know this assembly will get put in after paint, but I might have to get clever with the top ridge of the 'glass taillight panel to get it to fit prior to my painter doing gaps.
Yes on both points to my experience...
Thank you both!
Anyone have any external pics of the taillight panels before the bumper was attached?
Quote from: Bossbill on November 07, 2019, 01:06:01 PM
Anyone have any external pics of the taillight panels before the bumper was attached?
Do you mean one showing the pan head screws ?
Here is an image of an early car (early November 1966 Shelby completion date), still needed the screws in the lower "tabs" that are hidden by the bumper... is this what you're looking for?
Quote from: Bob Gaines on November 07, 2019, 03:36:48 PM
Quote from: Bossbill on November 07, 2019, 01:06:01 PM
Anyone have any external pics of the taillight panels before the bumper was attached?
Do you mean one showing the pan head screws ?
Ha, ha. That's partly true. But, I do try not to double dip between here and concoursmustang.com.
But what I was really looking for was the "look" of the whole back end like JD shows. How the taillight panel fits with respect to the panels around it.
And, how the panel fits around the end caps where the bumper hides that detail.
Outstanding tips & knowledge for Concour,, which I will use on my early 67
John