Just received a new Carter 65 canister style fuel pump and it is significantly different than the Carter pumps from 15-20 years ago! Does anyone have a better option than the new Carter pump made in Korea? The pump diameter is even bigger and just does not look close enough for my liking. I want a new pump for the trip to SAAC 44, as will be driving from Florida. Any help will be appreciated.
Thank you.
Don
gt350bp
A better option? At least an option would be to purchase a used or NOS non- Hipo fuel pump from the period and have it rebuilt so that you can use modern fuels. That is what many choose to do. Or purchase one from someone that has already found, restored and rebuilt since you have set a time limit for your need.
If you don't care about the little details you can purchase a later one with only the CARTER on the side of the main body but it will still cost the same to rebuild it so in the long run the cost different is minor. If your considering an original Hipo fuel pump - those can get expensive
Quote from: gt350bp on June 03, 2019, 03:48:22 PM
Just received a new Carter 65 canister style fuel pump and it is significantly different than the Carter pumps from 15-20 years ago! Does anyone have a better option than the new Carter pump made in Korea? The pump diameter is even bigger and just does not look close enough for my liking. I want a new pump for the trip to SAAC 44, as will be driving from Florida. Any help will be appreciated.
Thank you.
Don
gt350bp
All I have is original pumps that have been rebuilt (FYI it cost me 250.00 just to get the old crimp style rebuilt) . Here is a picture of another look a like alternative . This Carter style has the integral filter like the 65 . It was used on 64.5 on 289 hipos. It is in less demand and is rebuildable with the same carter rebuild kit Mustang vendors sell for the 67 and up Carter SB and BB fuelpumps . It it is still pricier then a generic auto parts store alternative but looks pretty darn close and you can always rebuild it yourself unlike the crimp together style. I do have this look alike core needing a rebuild kit for sale along with the assemblyline looking button top rebuilt pump . PM me for more details.
Hi Bob or Jeff!! So Can you help clear up my confusion about these pumps. Is there a definitive Carter Model# that was used on all the 65's? Some of the 65's? Maybe more than one model number? I've seen 4201-S, 4193-S.... And what is the correct MFG Name casting? "1719 CARbureTER, "Carter" or some other variant? Should it be a "Button top" or not? Thanks for the help!!!
Quote from: dockbay on July 17, 2019, 02:20:07 PM
Hi Bob or Jeff!! So Can you help clear up my confusion about these pumps. Is there a definitive Carter Model# that was used on all the 65's? Some of the 65's? Maybe more than one model number? I've seen 4201-S, 4193-S.... And what is the correct MFG Name casting? "1719 CARbureTER, "Carter" or some other variant? Should it be a "Button top" or not? Thanks for the help!!!
First off the 4201S is a 1966 fuel pump for a hipo. It doesn't have the integral fuel filter. The 3939S is the 1965 hipo fuel pump with the integral fuel filter. From the factory they would both have the CAR bure TER trademark and the button top. Both are very rare and consequently expensive fuel pumps that are in the 1500-2500.00 range restored if you can even find one . The 3911S is the non hipo version with the intergrel fuel filter .That one once installed looks identical to the 3939S with the exception of the small 1/8 tall numbers (3911S) stamped on to the side of the mounting flange. That is the one most use that don't want to invest in the more rare and expensive 3939S hipo fuelpump. Don't get me wrong in that the 3911S button top CAR bure TER marked fuel pump is getting very hard to find as a rebuildable core. It cost approximatly 250.00 to have it rebuilt and about 6 months give or take for it to get done. They typically sell restored in the 500.00 range. I hope this helps .
On all street 65's - all the same
CARbureTER with button top
All with the same stamped, on base, Carter number 3939S and date though dates will vary given the production date
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/12/6-170719144430.jpeg)
And it has the correct red star above the F, M and C on the canister. Nice piece.
Quote from: mygt350 on July 17, 2019, 03:27:21 PM
And it has the correct red star above the F, M and C on the canister. Nice piece.
FYI the repro canisters have the stars now. The color is different though.
+1
Thanks for the education!!
Try Flying Fred for quality restored HiPo fuel pumps. PM. contact info if needed.
Z
Fred did my 3939S and it's Beautiful. Fred does best job.
Thanks guys! In touch with Fred. Just in search of a good rebuildable core. Any leads would be appreciated..
Quote from: dockbay on July 23, 2019, 01:48:21 AM
Thanks guys! In touch with Fred. Just in search of a good rebuildable core. Any leads would be appreciated..
Which rebuildable core are you looking for? Are you looking for the 3939S or 3911S ?
I think this may show the color difference(s) Bob mentioned in his post above. The color more of an off white and the logo is a darker shade, almost maroon. Obtained from a great fellow forum member!
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/126-230719111657.jpeg)
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/126-230719111609.jpeg)
This cannister shown is probably too early for the GT350. Ive seen these on nos remote fuel filter adaptors and screw together pumps which would put them in 62-64 pumps - great looking NOS part nonetheless
Quote from: acman63 on July 23, 2019, 12:42:37 PM
This cannister shown is probably too early for the GT350. Ive seen these on nos remote fuel filter adaptors and screw together pumps which would put them in 62-64 pumps - great looking NOS part nonetheless
+1
I found this one in my Kraft auction ,Jan. 2020 box...$275 + shipping. Came with running engine we had for years... May '65 date. Real deal,not a cobbled fake. Nicest one We ever had as rebuildable core. Maybe it should be in classified,but answering a request....only a few requests will go unanswered.....
This has been spoken for. sold
R-Models used the mechanical pumps with SW 240-A electric pumps. I do not recall seeing any fuel pump switches on a R-Model dash, so are they wired to run when the car is running?
Another question is what fuel pressure is normal for a car running the electric pump and mechanical pump combination. Would it be common to see a
+/- 2 psi fluctuation on the fuel pressure gauge?
All input is appreciated, as I'm still working my way through a perceived fuel pressure issue on my GT 350 Competition replica running a Mallory 110 electric pump and a new Carter canister style mechanical pump for daily driving.
Thank you
Don
gt350bp
So this NOS item looks like a good substitute but isn't a "button top". Wonder why they made several different fuel pumps that seem to serve the very same function? I guess even though this one is like new it would still need to be rebuilt to handle modern fuel?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Carter-Ford-1965-1966-1967-289-HiPo-Fuel-Pump-Mustang-Fairlane-Comet-Shelby/401757478890
Quote from: mlplunkett on November 16, 2019, 09:29:53 PM
So this NOS item looks like a good substitute but isn't a "button top". Wonder why they made several different fuel pumps that seem to serve the very same function? I guess even though this one is like new it would still need to be rebuilt to handle modern fuel?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Carter-Ford-1965-1966-1967-289-HiPo-Fuel-Pump-Mustang-Fairlane-Comet-Shelby/401757478890
It would not make sense to invest the 250.00 plus time to rebuild a pump like that given it's short comings in appearance IMO. You ether buy it to live with it as is , find a button top core to rebuild or buy a 641/2 style that is the clamshell design that uses the same rebuild Kit (about 35.00) that later carter pumps use. It is up to you based on your expectations and budget.
Quote from: gt350bp on July 24, 2019, 05:59:51 PM
R-Models used the mechanical pumps with SW 240-A electric pumps. I do not recall seeing any fuel pump switches on a R-Model dash, so are they wired to run when the car is running?
Another question is what fuel pressure is normal for a car running the electric pump and mechanical pump combination. Would it be common to see a
+/- 2 psi fluctuation on the fuel pressure gauge?
All input is appreciated, as I'm still working my way through a perceived fuel pressure issue on my GT 350 Competition replica running a Mallory 110 electric pump and a new Carter canister style mechanical pump for daily driving.
Thank you
Don
gt350bp
It depends on what window in time you are looking at. For instance some R models were fitted with a switch panel on the tunnel that controlled things like fuel pumps and even ignition switch. Others got rid of the horn switch in favor of a electric fuel pump switch. FYI ever tried to reach the ignition switch when belted in with shoulder harness ?
Bob,
Thank you for the answer. I'm wondering how the SW 240 fuel pump was wired on the early cars as delivered from Shelby American? I do not recall seeing any early R-models with separate fuel pump switches, so I assume the fuel pump is wired direct to the ignition switch? I wired my fuel pump to a separate switch with an indicator light in the dash. Fuel pump is actuated and pumps up to 6 1/2 psi for starting and running at all times, but I've been recently seeing a +/- 2 psi fuel pressure fluctuation.
I think I found the problem in the custom Fuel Safe fuel bladder molded to the R-model fuel tank, as the bladder had been degraded by the fuel available in Florida. (93 octane with up to 10% alcohol.) Just sent the fuel tank back to Fuel Safe for repair / replacement on Friday. I think there is a restriction in the fuel pick-up in the bladder, as it would not drain when the fuel line was removed. Fuel cell bladder debris was found in the fuel when finally able to drain. No debris in the fuel filters. Custom fuel cell is about 4 1/2 years old with 5 year prorated warranty.
I'm trying to determine if I want to continue using a full time electric fuel pump or only for pressurizing and priming the fuel system to get fuel to the mechanical pump? I would need to determine an electric fuel pump that allows fuel flow when not activated. Current Mallory electric fuel pump restricts fuel pressure to the mechanical pump when not energized. If a SW 240 allows flow through when not in use, I think I may want to upgrade to an original SW 240?
Any input / suggestions are appreciated.
Thank you.
Don
gt350bp
Quote from: gt350bp on November 17, 2019, 10:35:08 AM
Bob,
Thank you for the answer. I'm wondering how the SW 240 fuel pump was wired on the early cars as delivered from Shelby American? I do not recall seeing any early R-models with separate fuel pump switches, so I assume the fuel pump is wired direct to the ignition switch? I wired my fuel pump to a separate switch with an indicator light in the dash. Fuel pump is actuated and pumps up to 6 1/2 psi for starting and running at all times, but I've been recently seeing a +/- 2 psi fuel pressure fluctuation.
I think I found the problem in the custom Fuel Safe fuel bladder molded to the R-model fuel tank, as the bladder had been degraded by the fuel available in Florida. (93 octane with up to 10% alcohol.) Just sent the fuel tank back to Fuel Safe for repair / replacement on Friday. I think there is a restriction in the fuel pick-up in the bladder, as it would not drain when the fuel line was removed. Fuel cell bladder debris was found in the fuel when finally able to drain. No debris in the fuel filters. Custom fuel cell is about 4 1/2 years old with 5 year prorated warranty.
I'm trying to determine if I want to continue using a full time electric fuel pump or only for pressurizing and priming the fuel system to get fuel to the mechanical pump? I would need to determine an electric fuel pump that allows fuel flow when not activated. Current Mallory electric fuel pump restricts fuel pressure to the mechanical pump when not energized. If a SW 240 allows flow through when not in use, I think I may want to upgrade to an original SW 240?
Any input / suggestions are appreciated.
Thank you.
Don
gt350bp
The SW 240 pump does allow a mechanical pump to pull through it when off. Causes nothing bad to happen in our Cobra unless it is very hot weather or very high altitude (8,000 feet and above). On the street the only real benefit I know of is refilling carburetor bowls before restart. Our Cobra is using a 1965 factory race shop Weber 4-2V system and the carburetors will become completely dry in just a few days up here in the Rocky Mountains.