Hello and greetings from Germany,
my name is Steve and i am a little bit of nuts :-D ...
first i must apologize my german school english.
i am interessting in Facts and pictures for the Shelby Buildings.
i found infos about the Venice Shop and also the LAX Hangars...
the Venice Shop still exist on google and some pics
the LAX Hangars are good documentaded, even with airplane pics from above
But there are some pics from the CARTER Street Building ?
i will start a Photoanlyse about how big is the Building and how are stay
the photos together...
i found Pics from early 65 production and some pics from the other Thread about
the Transporter Vehicels ... but there even a hole shoot from outside ?
or even an old Shoot from bird-view, like the LAX Hangars ?
(https://abload.de/img/a03f8cb2a130d7983eb73ugkve.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=a03f8cb2a130d7983eb73ugkve.jpg)
(https://abload.de/img/48d33b2e4880f6e9c2d23o8ko7.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=48d33b2e4880f6e9c2d23o8ko7.jpg)
(https://abload.de/img/71f3a6b3b2b1da9160e57ankcs.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=71f3a6b3b2b1da9160e57ankcs.jpg)
What your opinon on this
Steve from Germany
Hi Steve,
Welcome to our SAAC forum.
I will try to help so you can get a better understanding of the Carter Avenue building (across the road from the 1042 Princeton Drive).
Let me look for some good photos for you tonight. and a post them up here.
Rich
Here's a few Dave Freidman photo that show the Carter Avenue building exterior.
The street addresses for the three separate entrances of this building were;
- 3221 'Shelby American Inc. Sales & Finance Office' / Showroom
- 3219 Carroll Shelby Enterprises / Goodyear
- 3217 unknown at this time
Thank you very much ...
in a first step i will analyse the photos i found in the internet and i will make a simple sketch with paint programm
I hope i can find all the little Details we like on those vintage photos, like the famous George Watters Collection
or the really detective work on the Shelby Vehicle Thread.
Please inform me if such a thread from Carter Building are done in this forum, because i think there will be
a lot of time to analyse and find same and different Details ...
First Pic
(https://abload.de/img/a03f8cb2a130d7983eb73ugkve.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=a03f8cb2a130d7983eb73ugkve.jpg)
What we see:
Well, a shoot from inside carter building --- we see on the right side 5 GT350 in a row.
in the backround we see 2 big doors for cars, 1 for people, and 1 window
Second Pic
(https://abload.de/img/48d33b2e4880f6e9c2d23o8ko7.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=48d33b2e4880f6e9c2d23o8ko7.jpg)
What we see:
Pic from Inside, another angle,
in backside we see 1 big door for cars, the litte door for people and 1 Window
on front wall and one Window on sidewall
we see 3 of of the 5 GT350 in the row
in frontside we see 4 GT350, one factory Top Stripe car
and the Car next to the Top Stripe car have a Oil Can standing bevor.
3rd Pic
(https://abload.de/img/71f3a6b3b2b1da9160e57ankcs.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=71f3a6b3b2b1da9160e57ankcs.jpg)
What we see
another Angle, we see the the last 4 of the 5 GT350 standing in the row, and 3 GT350 standing on the floor,
another factory Top Stripe car
we see 4 Windows on the side wall, and the End of the Shop ??? or a partition Wall with Bricket downside
and Glass upside ...
And here the simple sketch in paint programm
(https://abload.de/img/carterbuilding-kopieegk36.png) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=carterbuilding-kopieegk36.png)
A while back, I made a rough overlay of the Shelby & surrounding buildings back in 1962-65 for another SAAC member.
It shows the relationship between the two Venice buildings.
This should also help you to understand what you find in various photos of the Carter Avenue building.
Quote from: Szabo on June 19, 2019, 07:09:55 PM
Thank you very much ...
in a first step i will analyse the photos i found in the internet and i will make a simple sketch with paint programm
I hope i can find all the little Details we like on those vintage photos, like the famous George Watters Collection
or the really detective work on the Shelby Vehicle Thread.
Please inform me if such a thread from Carter Building are done in this forum, because i think there will be
a lot of time to analyse and find same and different Details ...
First Pic
(https://abload.de/img/a03f8cb2a130d7983eb73ugkve.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=a03f8cb2a130d7983eb73ugkve.jpg)
What we see:
Well, a shoot from inside carter building --- we see on the right side 5 GT350 in a row.
in the backround we see 2 big doors for cars, 1 for people, and 1 window
Second Pic
(https://abload.de/img/48d33b2e4880f6e9c2d23o8ko7.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=48d33b2e4880f6e9c2d23o8ko7.jpg)
What we see:
Pic from Inside, another angle,
in backside we see 1 big door for cars, the litte door for people and 1 Window
on front wall and one Window on sidewall
we see 3 of of the 5 GT350 in the row
in frontside we see 4 GT350, one factory Top Stripe car
and the Car next to the Top Stripe car have a Oil Can standing bevor.
Yes, we are all very thankful to
George Watters for sharing all those great photos (and to
Kieth 'SFM66H' for spending an enormous amount of time scanning and posting each of them with detailed information on each photo).
I don't believe there are any threads that analyze the Carter Ave. building in detail. (I thought about it a while back)
Feel free to post your questions and thoughts on it.
From your above two (2) photos we see the backside of the building from the inside.
The far right window is near the outer wall, with the door entrance next, and the two garage doors near the center (of the backside) of the building.
On the other side of those two garage door is another (2nd) employee entrance door, two more windows, another (3rd employee entrance door, and finally another garage door at the corner of the building.
Here are some more Dave Freidman photos that show the backside in closer detail
In the last photo, i'm assuming the "marine shop" at the right of the photo, is Oscar's boat covers? Seems about right from your schematic drawing.
Thanks for the awesome outside pics ... and your support in my project
Never saw outside pics bevor 8)
Was the factory at this time called Shelby American ?
(When yes so the term "Shelby American Inside" gets a hole new meaning ;) )
First Fact: The Carter was not so a small building as i expected
Second Fact: My Frontside is the Backside of the Building ;D :o ;D :o
Well i will modified my Skeetch and analyse more Pics from Inside first
I guess we will have some fun here with this historic Pics
Quote from: 69mach351w on June 19, 2019, 07:48:36 PM
In the last photo, i'm assuming the "marine shop" at the right of the photo, is Oscar's boat covers? Seems about right from your schematic drawing.
I'm not with you on that one. I think the 'Oscar's Boat Covers' building in not visible in the photo with the 'Marine Shop'.
It would be on the right side of Princeton Drive out of view.
I
think the Marine shop may actually be on Lincoln blvd.
There was a 'Surf Board" shop next to it (on the left, behind the trailer camper) as seen in this Freidman photo.
Quote from: Szabo on June 19, 2019, 07:49:14 PM
Thanks for the awesome outside pics ... and your support in my project
Never saw outside pics bevor 8)
Was the factory at this time called Shelby American ?
(When yes so the term "Shelby American Inside" gets a hole new meaning ;) )
First Fact: The Carter was not so a small building as i expected
Second Fact: My Frontside is the Backside of the Building ;D :o ;D :o
Well i will modified my Skeetch and analyse more Pics from Inside first
I guess we will have some fun here with this historic Pics
'Shelby American Inc.' was written on the glass entrance doors for both Venice buildings.
I agree with your first and second facts.
I've been trying to figure out when Shelby moved into the Carter building. Was it the same time as the Princeton building. (I suspect not)
The earliest photo or info I've found on Carter Ave is from late '63. The photo has the Daytona Coupe wood buck parked on Princeton Ave with the Carter building seen in the background. Parked on the side of the Carter building is the tractor trailer used to transport the race cars. The COE cab appears to be white, not the team Viking blue paint we typically see on it...yet.
We know he leased the Princeton Drive building from Lance Reventlow sometime around September 1962.
In the Book Shelby American it is written that the Princeton Building was a little bit befor Sep. 62
i made a screen shot.
(https://abload.de/img/unbenannt2gjs6.png) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=unbenannt2gjs6.png)
Wilkommen! Viele Grüsse aus Chicago. Woher kommen Sie?
Richard E.
Quote from: Richstang on June 19, 2019, 08:32:01 PM
Quote from: 69mach351w on June 19, 2019, 07:48:36 PM
In the last photo, i'm assuming the "marine shop" at the right of the photo, is Oscar's boat covers? Seems about right from your schematic drawing.
I'm not with you on that one. I think the 'Oscar's Boat Covers' building in not visible in the photo with the 'Marine Shop'.
It would be on the right side of Princeton Drive out of view.
I think the Marine shop may actually be on Lincoln blvd.
There was a 'Surf Board" shop next to it (on the left, behind the trailer camper) as seen in this Freidman photo.
Ok, that's why I stated "I'm assuming".
Danke schön !!!
i came from "Schwäbisch Gmünd", about 50km from Stuttgart City, the Town from Mercedes Benz and Porsche also.
But my passion is about 65 - 67 Shelbys ... 8)
Szabo, thanks for your interest and assistance. I grew up near the S-A facilities and (although just a little kid at the time) I recall more than a few of those locations.
I've been to the Porsche and Mercedes facilities in Stuttgart, as well as to your area. Driven a lot through Deutschland. Love it there. Especially back when the autobahns were truly no speed limits.
Quote from: Szabo on June 19, 2019, 09:35:36 PM
Danke schön !!!
i came from "Schwäbisch Gmünd", about 50km from Stuttgart City, the Town from Mercedes Benz and Porsche also.
But my passion is about 65 - 67 Shelbys ... 8)
Koolio! I have a 10 year old son that lives in Wilhelmshaven.
Quote from: Szabo on June 19, 2019, 09:09:39 PM
In the Book Shelby American it is written that the Princeton Building was a little bit befor Sep. 62
i made a screen shot.
(https://abload.de/img/unbenannt2gjs6.png) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=unbenannt2gjs6.png)
Thanks for posting the article. That's what I've read in other articles places too.
This letterhead from Reventlow Automobiles, Inc. was dated August 10th, 1962.
I assume SAI moved in shortly after that.
Quote from: Richstang on June 20, 2019, 10:22:40 AM
Quote from: Szabo on June 19, 2019, 09:09:39 PM
In the Book Shelby American it is written that the Princeton Building was a little bit befor Sep. 62
i made a screen shot.
(https://abload.de/img/unbenannt2gjs6.png) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=unbenannt2gjs6.png)
Thanks for posting the article. That's what I've read in other articles places too.
This letterhead from Reventlow Automobiles, Inc. was dated August 10th, 1962.
I assume SAI moved in shortly after that.
Wow, I was 12 DAYS old ;D
Thank you very much for the welcome, yeah German Autobahn is nearly a trademark for Germany,
but in those Days they are Limits and Limits and too much traffic .... but on a Saturday morning
at 5 a.m. with fresh air and a Porsche Turbo from a friend ... yeah you just can have fun on the autobahn ;D
So, i came back to Part 2 of my Photoanalyse of Pics i found
4th Pic
(https://abload.de/img/435kfp.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=435kfp.jpg)
What we see
pretty same angle like Pic 3rd, nothing new to find
5th Pic
(https://abload.de/img/5wlkg4.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=5wlkg4.jpg)
What we see
the 5 GT350 in a row from another angle from Pic 1, Photographer stands
near Gate 1, looking into the building
5 Windows at the Sidewall
6th Pic
(https://abload.de/img/6zmjn3.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=6zmjn3.jpg)
What we see:
Another Pic of the "Oil Can" GT350 stands next to the Top Stripe car from Pic 3&4
Car is high jacked on the end, one Man lays down at the rear Tire
7th Pic
(https://abload.de/img/7ppjx7.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=7ppjx7.jpg)
What we see:
Side shot of the "Oil Can" GT350 from the 6th Pic, the Man stands behind and
a black Man is sitting in the Car
Attention: Very interesting for me is the backround of the pic into the
left side of the shop (left from the Photographer Point, right when you walked
from the Gates into the Shop)
there is a mobile Wall and between the window from the front stands
a COBRA, black paint (maybe black) and with a roll bar
the Sidewall is a brick wall without Windows, and seperates the GT350
Production from other parts of the building
God, i love those Detals ... ;)
8th Pic
(https://abload.de/img/8lika1.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=8lika1.jpg)
What we see:
Another pic from the "Oil Can" GT350, the black Man ist still sitting in,
the other mechanic is laying backside under the car
And we can see also the Spray Booth Cabin stand in the Middle of the Shop
Pic 9
What we see:
One GT350 getting top stripes in the Spary Booth Cabin
Last pic is the added Skeetch theme ... slowly we get an quick overview
about the Inside of the GT350 Production in Carter Street
(https://abload.de/img/carterbuilding-kopie-fvjv1.png) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=carterbuilding-kopie-fvjv1.png)
Any thougts from you guys ?
Quote from: 69mach351w on June 20, 2019, 10:38:27 AM
Quote from: Richstang on June 20, 2019, 10:22:40 AM
Quote from: Szabo on June 19, 2019, 09:09:39 PM
In the Book Shelby American it is written that the Princeton Building was a little bit befor Sep. 62
i made a screen shot.
Thanks for posting the article. That's what I've read in other articles places too.
This letterhead from Reventlow Automobiles, Inc. was dated August 10th, 1962.
I assume SAI moved in shortly after that.
Wow, I was 12 DAYS old ;D
I think you mean 12 days young. ;D ;)
Quote from: Szabo on June 20, 2019, 02:40:39 PM
Thank you very much for the welcome, yeah German Autobahn is nearly a trademark for Germany,
but in those Days they are Limits and Limits and too much traffic .... but on a Saturday morning
at 5 a.m. with fresh air and a Porsche Turbo from a friend ... yeah you just can have fun on the autobahn ;D
So, i came back to Part 2 of my Photoanalyse of Pics i found
4th Pic
What we see
pretty same angle like Pic 3rd, nothing new to find
5th Pic
What we see
the 5 GT350 in a row from another angle from Pic 1, Photographer stands
near Gate 1, looking into the building
5 Windows at the Sidewall
6th Pic
What we see:
Another Pic of the "Oil Can" GT350 stands next to the Top Stripe car from Pic 3&4
Car is high jacked on the end, one Man lays down at the rear Tire
7th Pic
(https://abload.de/img/7ppjx7.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=7ppjx7.jpg)
What we see:
Side shot of the "Oil Can" GT350 from the 6th Pic, the Man stands behind and
a black Man is sitting in the Car
Attention: Very interesting for me is the backround of the pic into the
left side of the shop (left from the Photographer Point, right when you walked
from the Gates into the Shop)
there is a mobile Wall and between the window from the front stands
a COBRA, black paint (maybe black) and with a roll bar
the Sidewall is a brick wall without Windows, and seperates the GT350
Production from other parts of the building
God, i love those Detals ... ;)
8th Pic
What we see:
Another pic from the "Oil Can" GT350, the black Man ist still sitting in,
the other mechanic is laying backside under the car
And we can see also the Spray Booth Cabin stand in the Middle of the Shop
Pic 9
What we see:
One GT350 getting top stripes in the Spary Booth Cabin
Last pic is the added Skeetch theme ... slowly we get an quick overview
about the Inside of the GT350 Production in Carter Street
Any thougts from you guys ?
Hey!!! I never gave a though to that inside brick wall (with no windows) running down the length of the building.
It seems you have discovered the building has two separate work areas with this area being the larger of the two.
WELL DONE!Here's a few more pictures (some of these may have been shared with me by Kieth 'SFM66H')
Now I'm wondering what was going on inside the of the second garage work area?
I'll have to look for any photos mixed in my files.
Thank you, i enjoyed the detective work on this one ...
Well, when i saw your outside photo and combined with my inside skeetch
i have this toughts:
This Inside brick wall seperatets the Shelby Enterprise from this Goodyear section
inside are 5 Windows to see, then comes a Wall, upside Bricks, upper with Glas, behind the Spray booth
Outside we see in the Goodyear section 7 to 8 Windows maybe...
So i think the Section after the 5 Windows are the Office Aera from Shelby Enterprise & Goodyear
Only thougts, no proofs find yet
To your Pics, 1st and 3rd are in my skeetch integrated, the 2nd could be behind the mobile wall on the
right side when you move from gates into building.
Good view on the Wall behind the Spray booth
I would like to integrated this one on my skeetch ...
Greets
Steve
(https://abload.de/img/carterave1f-kopieemjbu.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=carterave1f-kopieemjbu.jpg)
The front offices don't line up with the back side garage areas. If you look at my (paint program) sketch in reply #4 you will see the street addresses for the façade of the Carter Avenue building. Shelby American Inc. is on the left corner (when viewed from the front of the building on Carter Ave.). The center offices (which appear to be the largest area on the front façade) are the CS Enterprises / Goodyear offices, and I still don't know what was at 3217 on the far right.
The street addresses for the three separate entrances of the Carter Ave building were;
- 3221 'Shelby American Inc. Sales & Finance Office' / Showroom (left)
- 3219 'Carroll Shelby Enterprises Inc.' / 'Goodyear' (center)
- 3217 unknown at this time (right)
It is still possible the smaller second garage area was used as the Goodyear tire warehouse and / or storage, but they just don't line up with the office in front.
Here's a few more photos to help show that more clearly.
Here's another photo of the Carter Ave building to show how many windows there were on that side.
The darker brick at the front of the building was a higher end brick with a sharper color finish.
This might define the size of the office area but it does seem a bit small in depth.
The Princeton Drive building has this same type of higher end brick at the front of the building too.
Thanks for more of this awesome Pics ... Fantastic
on the pic with the edge behind the Dragonsnake it seems like to different sort of building are come together.
the Windows are a little bit lower in the building, maybe the darker front is only the office ...
Well i can agree with you that after the 5 Windows are comes 2 more befor the other style bricks are coming
Maybe we have here about a inner storage for parts and stuff because on your 2nd pic i see some Sort
of portal to the area behind this wall
on another pic from the other side ( will integrated tomorrow) i see the same type of portal,
i mean a big door to slide away (sorry for bad englisch).
Most logic argument for me you is that the area on the right side behind the brick wall is for goodyear stuff
and not for Shelby Production stuff
for the first i will go on with the inner pics from Shelby Production
Another quick question...
i saw some pics from the first Daytona building, pics from inside a Garage wo Sheetmetal ist coming on the
wood frame,
is it right that the hole Prototype work is done in 1042 Princeton Drive ... and then it is towed for Paint to
the Carter Building.
Quote from: Szabo on June 20, 2019, 06:23:50 PM
Thanks for more of this awesome Pics ... Fantastic
on the pic with the edge behind the Dragonsnake it seems like to different sort of building are come together.
the Windows are a little bit lower in the building, maybe the darker front is only the office ...
Well i can agree with you that after the 5 Windows are comes 2 more befor the other style bricks are coming
Maybe we have here about a inner storage for parts and stuff because on your 2nd pic i see some Sort
of portal to the area behind this wall
on another pic from the other side ( will integrated tomorrow) i see the same type of portal,
i mean a big door to slide away (sorry for bad englisch).
Most logic argument for me you is that the area on the right side behind the brick wall is for goodyear stuff
and not for Shelby Production stuff
for the first i will go on with the inner pics from Shelby Production
Another quick question...
i saw some pics from the first Daytona building, pics from inside a Garage wo Sheetmetal ist coming on the
wood frame,
is it right that the hole Prototype work is done in 1042 Princeton Drive ... and then it is towed for Paint to
the Carter Building.
Yes, The front façade of Carter has the windows sitting lower to the ground than the side of the building. That would be appropriate for an office setting where someone is sitting at a desk and could look out the window. The higher placed window of the workshop would let light in be someone passing by could not see the work inside without walking up to the window to peer inside.
As you identified 5 windows in the shop area, it does seem likely the 6th and 7th windows are still part of the workshop. It does seems they are part of the storage space behind the sliding door you mentioned.
Yes, the Daytona wooden buck and body metal fabrication was all done in the 1042 Princeton building (as was the engine building and dyno shop). I agree the paint shop work appear to all have been done over at the Carter building.
A simple detail to tell the difference between the two buildings is the darker paint on the wall. In the Carter building the darker paint ends right at the bottom edge of the windows. In the Princeton building the darker paint ends about one row below the windows.
I would kill to know the Vins of the cars in the photos
Yeah, Vin´s would be awesome, some cars has Window Stickers but i can maximes the photos
so big to can read what is on these stickers...
I found this nice coloured Photo with a Cobra Flip top, Date is sayed it is compared
for the Nassau Speed Weeks 1964...
The Cobra stand at the Princeton Building, and in the backround we see Carter Street,
on the parking lot some interessting Cars but no Shelbys or Shelby Transporter ...
Now we see clearly the darker bricks at the front of the Carter building ...
(https://abload.de/img/45881621784_03fa11ccfxijgg.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=45881621784_03fa11ccfxijgg.jpg)
One Ohter Pic i found was from former SCARAB Shop, but when this was make in
the Carter Building i found not enough Details to located where it is made...
Or the Building was not ever in this Shape and is rebuild to this quarter edge style like we see it on the other Pics.
(https://abload.de/img/17029600729_32c21de43ddkd7.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=17029600729_32c21de43ddkd7.jpg)
Good Grief!! Keep these photos coming!! I absolutely LOVE looking at these, gives you the thought of a cool time in History with these cars 8)
And keeps me thinking of ALL the times I had a chance to buy one of the early cars
(65-66), But just NEVER got things together to buy one.
And seeing a bunch of early Shelby's in a row back in the mid late 80's at the local Shelby/Mustang show put on by Jacky Jones in Cherokee NC. Shelby's, Bosses, BB's, CJ's everywhere back then. And a lot of them for sale!!!
Give me a day or two and I'll see if I can find photos from back then.
Thanks for the answer ...
i dont understand the term "Good Grief" but i think you like the Pics ;D
at the moment i find "the Henry Ford" Database with absolut impressive pics from David Friedman ...
First time i see, but i am not in the game for a few years and so i just sitting there and my wife thinks i am
nuts to sit from 8 pm to 3am bevor the laptop..
But at the Moment i am a little bit confused about all the Input in my mind
Greets
Steve
Quote from: sfm5s081 on June 21, 2019, 01:58:03 AM
I would kill to know the Vins of the cars in the photos
The only VIN I've heard thrown out is for the car in the back corner of this photo...5R002
We can see it had the rear bumper removed and appears to have the quarter roof vent out as well.
Maybe the Lemans striped car in the foreground is 5S003?
Note the gunmetal grey Jaguar E-Type parked behind the '56 or '57 VW in the color photo.
The color photo of the Flip-Top from November '64 is a great one. Not only can we see the different color bricks on the Carter building façade, but also a hint of the curved roof (as seen in the interior photos). Yes, there are no other visible Cobra's in the photo and the Shelby GT350's were not part of the story at that time. What was the bus was for?
The Reventlow Scarab color photo is confusing. I have not been able to figure out where it was taken. I do not believe it was taken at the Carter Ave building as the ground is flat in that area. We see a hint of the raised driveway with some visible bricks at the edge behind the second Scarab. One theory I have is this was taken on the left side of the Princeton Drive building. We can see a slight rise in elevation on the front parking area, yet just to the left of the shrubs there is a parking spot where the Chevy station wagon sits flat on the horizontal (in the Shelby era photos). That would also mean the second floor offices were added later after the Scarab photo was taken. We do see the electric power wires come into the building on that side. Reventlow was only in the Princeton building from about late 1960 to late 1962. I believe he owned the building and leased it to Carroll Shelby.
The big problem with my theory is the office on the second floor and also there is no garage door visible on that side of the building (in the Shelby leased era). I also don't think that land is part of the building property (unless it was a shared driveway prior to Shelby leasing the building).
My only other thought is that the Scarab photo was taken at Reventlow's Culver City shop where he was from working from 1957 through the end of the 1960 season. However that building also did not have those same shapes. It's a mystery we can put aside for this Carter Avenue focused thread if you wish. It's your thread to decide how you want to proceed.
Rich,
I think you may be correct that the second floor of the building was added after the brick portion existed. The architecture of the upper level appears like it could've been added.
I've been inside the Princeton building and went upstairs to see where CS's office supposedly was. I realize that a small SAAC group went to the facility at least once in the past 10-15 years, but I was not a part of that. I talked my way in on my own. ;D
What was the address of Reventlow's shop in Culver City? I grew up there and know the town very well.
Van
I was thinking the added second floor for Princeton was a longshot, especially since the building to the right also has the second floor with the white stucco finish (We can see a hint of the second building in the photo with the 2 white Cobra's above).
Nice effort to get to visit inside the Princeton building! I think Kieth 'SFM66H' was part of the SAAC group visit several years ago.
West Jefferson Blvd. was the street with all the various car builder shops in the 50's - 60's. Here's a photo I found from back in the day (in the rear of the building) with the added street numbers. Also here's a second photo from 2018 of how it look now (in the front of the building). I believe it is basically unchanged.
Yep, I know that area well. Was unofficially called "Gasoline Alley" by the locals. And yes, it still looks much the same. My dad worked at nearby Hughes Aircraft, which had some of its original buildings (including where the Spruce Goose was built) saved during the massive redevelopment effort 10 years ago, but most of that giant property is now Google offices and a ton of apartments/condos.
I have some photos from my visit to Princeton, but they are on an old computer, so I will have to try and find them and will post. That was around 2010, when the owners were just starting to remodel that block of buildings. They'd already screwed up the shop portion by putting in a lot of sheetrock walls and interior rooms. Ugh.
But, in one of their architecture design renderings I saw, they had drawn a Shelby GT350 in one of the front parking places. So, a hat-tip to them for that.
What an amazing input in this thread ...
Well i just looking over 1000 Photos in this Henry Ford Database and oh my God, i saw pics from all over what
i want to see and now.
Shelby LAX Open House Pics, Carret Avenue Pics from Outside and Inside ( even some Office Pics as well)
and of course the hole Princeton Thing
I must download the hole one and make some more threads about Princeton and LAX (my masterpiece then)
So i truly be thankfull for all the input as the Princeton Building, and please Side-Oiler / Van tell us more about the visit in the Princeton Drive 1042
and inform us in this Thread
But first i will focused on the Carter Avenue Building ( this Scarab Pic is not so importand for this one)
I hopefully later i will post another Photoanlyse from Carter Building and can go outside ..
At all the cost of my nervs, my sleep and a grumpy Wife at all, i have Joy to make this one with
true Facts and give a little of my self in this hole Shelby Mysterie Facts
Hello,
here wo go again ... and because i found this awesome "Henry Ford" Pics with a
much more cleary Look Inside of Carter Building i will make a little bit fast
forward !!!
Pic 10
(https://abload.de/img/10dfksv.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=10dfksv.jpg)
The GT350 on the End of the Left Side, standing for this sliding door
(in the Cobar Pics vom HF you will see this is a Sliding Door)
Pic 11
(https://abload.de/img/11opkg1.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=11opkg1.jpg)
It´s a early at the Day Pic from Car 11 on my skeetch,
the Later "Oil Can" ones standing right from Top Stripe one
Pic 12
(https://abload.de/img/12gwkln.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=12gwkln.jpg)
one Car from the right row of the 5 Cars standing befor the Windows
i think it is Car 4 on my skeetch
Pic 13
(https://abload.de/img/13ybjuf.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=13ybjuf.jpg)
another Car from Window row, i cant find out which one it is
Pic 14 & 15
(https://abload.de/img/14wuks1.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=14wuks1.jpg)
(https://abload.de/img/15ckkzw.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=15ckkzw.jpg)
took me for a while aber i think this Car Nr. 12 from another angle,
the later "Oil Can" Car from another angle
this stake/Pale from Floor to Bottom is behind the Car,
and no other Car ist stand befor it
on the Left Edge of Pic 14 you can see a little bit of the Jacket
from Pic 8 where the Car is jacke up
Pic 16
(https://abload.de/img/16udjcw.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=16udjcw.jpg)
I look a while on it but it´s a little bit hard for me
I truly think it´s a new GT350 standing behind the mobile Wall
and of course on the right sight on the bricket wall
Pic 17
(https://abload.de/img/1781jq7.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=1781jq7.jpg)
Last Pic from the GT350 Series i found on the internet
We see two more GT350 an the bricket wall right befor
the End of the production area
between the Spary Booth and Bricket wall
So Guys, i analysed all GT350 Pics i could find on the net at this point
The Garage was pretty full at this point and so it cost me a lot of
time to make the skeetch
But i have found some Pics from the COBRA Production befor GT350 was
starting and this will be my next anlased and making some crosses
between GT350/COBRA Pics...
Also the COBRA Production was a little bit clearly and so we can find some
more Detaisl
What you think about my Work, any point of critic or maybe you see a
wrong describing
Greets Steve/Stephan
(https://abload.de/img/carterbuilding-kopie-n6kwh.png) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=carterbuilding-kopie-n6kwh.png)
WOW ... 8)
Quote from: Richstang on June 20, 2019, 05:50:56 PM
The front offices don't line up with the back side garage areas. If you look at my (paint program) sketch in reply #4 you will see the street addresses for the façade of the Carter Avenue building. Shelby American Inc. is on the left corner (when viewed from the front of the building on Carter Ave.). The center offices (which appear to be the largest area on the front façade) are the CS Enterprises / Goodyear offices, and I still don't know what was at 3217 on the far right.
The street addresses for the three separate entrances of the Carter Ave building were;
- 3221 'Shelby American Inc. Sales & Finance Office' / Showroom (left)
- 3219 'Carroll Shelby Enterprises Inc.' / 'Goodyear' (center)
- 3217 unknown at this time (right)
It is still possible the smaller second garage area was used as the Goodyear tire warehouse and / or storage, but they just don't line up with the office in front.
Here's a few more photos to help show that more clearly.
Maybe i can help a little bit of your Question for 3217
I found this Pic form a Street Cobra, when you enlarge the right corner you can See 3219 and 3217 on the glass doors,
and on both stands "Shelby American Inc."
(https://abload.de/img/thf1297164wkme.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=thf1297164wkme.jpg)
(https://abload.de/img/carter3217unkownl2jtl.png) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=carter3217unkownl2jtl.png)
What do you mean, i am right ?
Anywhere, what i dont find is a hole Frontside pic ... do you have such one ?
So, third post on one Day ... :o
i just sort by the Cobra Pics
Question: When did Shelby buy the Carter Building ??? Princeton about 1962 1/2, right ?
When I looked at the Pics i focussed on follow thougts:
Cobra production was not so fully loaded like the GT350,
we have much less Neon Lights and the Cobras are not close standing together
First Pic when we started with a little tour walk,
we stand nearly in the middle of the Room, looking in left Corner at the Brickwall and the
Front Windows, also we see one Gate...
(https://abload.de/img/18dxk2m.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=18dxk2m.jpg)
then we look at the right corner with the row of Windows, some Cobras standing at the working platforms
(https://abload.de/img/19z2jb1.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=19z2jb1.jpg)
Then wie spin a little bit and look at the Wall after the 5th Window who speperate the Room from the
aera behind ... we see the Sliding Door open and can identified some wood boxes for Engine maybe
When you count the area with Windows and the pillars and count on you will see that are two more such
sections ... (Window 6 and 7 on the outside of the building)
(https://abload.de/img/20vqjj8.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=20vqjj8.jpg)
in the middle of the production area are standing the Paint booth Box, looking at left corner you
can also look behind the sliding door to the next area, you see the wood boxes again and some
Gas bottle , so it may not only be a storeage area
(https://abload.de/img/21pejmw.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=21pejmw.jpg)
a little spin again and after the booth paint box we look again on the area with the brick wall an the partition wall
which are standing some early Cobras in two rowes, some Hood hanging on the wall
(https://abload.de/img/22tzkoc.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=22tzkoc.jpg)
i found antoher pic with a Drag Cobra at the same angle and location
look at this Goodyear Trailer 8)
(https://abload.de/img/23zskj0.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=23zskj0.jpg)
and the comparison pic with the GT350´s.
(https://abload.de/img/243uj71.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=243uj71.jpg)
last Pic is the Cobra BEFOR the last pic, notice the extinguisher on the dark / red point on the Brick wall.
(https://abload.de/img/25jsjot.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=25jsjot.jpg)
and the comparison pic with the GT350, look at this Edge of the dark point on wall, this would
be the extinguisher on the pic befor
(https://abload.de/img/26tjjxt.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=26tjjxt.jpg)
Unfortunaly i found no pics from behind the sliding door and the "Storage" Area behind the booth Paint box...
Next Step is a closer look at the outside of the Carter Building
So i hope you would like to answer a little bit, what´s your Thoughts about this.
Greets from Germany
This string is crazy great. Looking forward to seeing everyone.
Kim
With all the help of the Dave Friedman photos I think you have the inside of the Carter Ave building on the production side fairly well covered. Other than the scale of details it seems you have the cars well positioned in your sketch as we see them.
In the Cobra production photos, I noticed the engine stands in the front corner next to the single garage door. The large round painted circle on the brick wall with the fire extinguisher seem to be in more than one place (maybe three (3)?). That was a good idea by whoever set up the shop. I would consider adding the two (2) support posts in the center of the space to your sketch. I think they are centered between the two garage doors, but that would seem to interfere with the entrance to the spray booth. I suspect the spray booth was slightly off center, moved over to the left, closer to the window side wall for easy drive in access.
Finding a whole front view of the Carter Ave building has proven difficult. No luck by me with that task. We still don't know for certain when Shelby moved into Carter Avenue, but I still wonder if it was shortly after he leased 1042 Princeton Drive or at the same time (late August - Early September '62)
I'm not sure how you found the slightly larger photo of the Carter 3219 & 3217 glass doors, but well done. it does appear they both list 'Shelby American Inc.', although it is a bit blurry to read it to be 100% certain. I'd love to know what the writing below the company name said too.
Hey,
thanks for your comments ...
yeah this David Friedmann Photos and also George Watters are my Heros ...
from the GT350 Pics i dont find it in higher resolution, the Cobra pics are on the Henry Ford Database
I post two more Pics from the "COBRA Production" Time in the Carter building...
yes you are right, on the left front side (standing in the center of the room) are the engine line
(https://abload.de/img/6925792093_1e94277306q5kp1.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=6925792093_1e94277306q5kp1.jpg)
and yes on the right side there are first three posts with Cobra on it and we see another fire extingguisher at the opposite
from the one on of the left side
(https://abload.de/img/6925792777_b212c769c7u7khg.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=6925792777_b212c769c7u7khg.jpg)
hier you can see it on the "GT350" Pic
(https://abload.de/img/39ajxf.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=39ajxf.jpg)
i agree with you that the Paint Box are not standing in the middle of the room, it seems that an the Brick wall side is more space at on
the Window row.
the 2 Posts from floor to roof i added on my skeetch
(https://abload.de/img/carterbuilding-kopie-5yj09.png) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=carterbuilding-kopie-5yj09.png)
So i will finish the inner side of the Production area, but when anybody find more Details or Insidepics
please inform me ....
To your last question how about i get a larger Pic, i just enlarge the Cobra befor Carter Building Pic directly on the Henry Ford Database
and make a sreen shot. Unfortnaly it getting some more blurry when you downloaded or reloadet.
but maybe you can try it by yourself at your Computer ...
I am a little bit sad that only you answer me a little bit more words... Seems thats not so interresting for community
I have never seen those 2 into 1 cast manifolds before. I just assumed all Cobras had headers.
Szabo: Please don't be discouraged! We love this kind of stuff.
I spent most of yesterday looking for the photos of my visit to the Princeton building in 2010 or 2011. But no luck so far. I will be sure to post when I find them!
Thanks for all of your efforts on Shelby American photographic archaeology!
Van
Szabo
Great work. Keep it coming.
Rodney
Stephan 'Szabo'
I believe there are many people who are enjoying all your posts, even some who do not posts replies. Don't forget this is the time of year when many people are out enjoying the summer. This weekend we had particularly beautiful weather here in the northeastern US. Also some people just enjoy posts like this and don't have much to contribute when such a terrific effort is done.
Thanks for the reply on the photo of the Cobra in front of the Carter building. Maybe you have a larger monitor to view and save that photo in a larger size. My saved photo does not show those glass doors nearly as well. I really expected 3219 would have "Shelby Enterprises Inc." as seen on the Support vehicle F-series pick-up truck in the attached Dave Friedman photo.
Maybe you can start a new separate thread for the LAX airport hangers facility. I'm sure you know when the old forum crashed we lost Kieth's 'SFM66H' thread with so many of those great "George Watters" photos. Those won't be easy sketches to create for the inside of those two hangers. We will need more help to sort that out.
Quote from: Side-Oilers on June 23, 2019, 04:14:05 PM
Szabo: Please don't be discouraged! We love this kind of stuff.
I spent most of yesterday looking for the photos of my visit to the Princeton building in 2010 or 2011. But no luck so far. I will be sure to post when I find them!
Thanks for all of your efforts on Shelby American photographic archaeology!
Van
Hey Van,
Please keep digging. I don't think I've ever seen photos of the entrance or the stairs going up to the second floor offices of Princeton Drive. I know Dave Friedman had a few office pictures mixed in the photo collection, but I have no idea which building all of them were in or where they were. Only a few of them are obvious as the Carter Building (when we see the bricks and front windows.) Maybe some others who were their on the tour can chime in here with photos or more details.
Quote from: 2112 on June 23, 2019, 04:13:03 PM
I have never seen those 2 into 1 cast manifolds before. I just assumed all Cobras had headers.
I thought those were on stock early cars, others will know better.
Thank for your support and your very kindly words to never give up ...
I was a little bit stressed and have some headage from all this photos and Infos.
For me it is the most importend to get some 100% True Arguments and Pics and to analyse
them in my most best way i can do this. A very Hard way now a days where every one
can say everything in the WWW.
So i spend nearly a Week to find pics, make thougts, bring them to paper and think again ...
But it seems like we are doing this all together, when i read the George Watters Collection
Thread from SFM66H / Kieth or the Shelby Vehicels Thread from Richstang
and of course i dont answer every thread i read ...
But enough at these thougts ... Best way to come down a little bit ist getting out on fresh air
;D ;D ;D
And so i take a little outside tour of Carter Building 8)
First and most important Pic for me is from Richstang, such a drawing is wonderfull to
see how it all stands together and to arrange the pics correctly. Thanks for your PIC and Work
(https://abload.de/img/princetondrcarteravesphkgu.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=princetondrcarteravesphkgu.jpg)
Second Pics with the Remarks is also from Richstang and was for me my the oppotunity
to make the inside thing on the backside (where i ever thougt it was the frontside :o)
(https://abload.de/img/10h1k44.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=10h1k44.jpg)
Then we are going on with one of my favourite Pic, colorfull and sharp ...
(Notice this Strange Bus on the Property, we will see it later on this thread)
(https://abload.de/img/145vkm5.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=145vkm5.jpg)
After the overview of the backside i would like beginning with the parking lot,
First i thougt about 1 or 2 two rows for the employees,
but the hole space between the Carter Building and Thatcher Ave Building is
one Parking Lot, we came back for some interessing Pics from the Parking Lot.
There were almost 3 parking areas with 2 rows in every Lot ...
(https://abload.de/img/164zjlr.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=164zjlr.jpg)
(https://abload.de/img/17mhjcm.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=17mhjcm.jpg)
(https://abload.de/img/18c2kq8.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=18c2kq8.jpg)
(https://abload.de/img/1468k4t.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=1468k4t.jpg)
Even two heavy Trucks can bring new GT350 to Carter Ave ...
notice the Standpoint on the parking lot right between the brick wall and the wood wall ;)
.... on of my thoughts at this pics, when you have Shelby American right behind
your House there are always a lot of motion and noises ;D
(https://abload.de/img/991zjeg.png) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=991zjeg.png)
(https://abload.de/img/1009ckvt.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=1009ckvt.jpg)
(https://abload.de/img/101nhjr1.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=101nhjr1.jpg)
(https://abload.de/img/102e8j1n.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=102e8j1n.jpg)
One of the Pics that cost´s me a lot of time to discover where it is happend,
it´s one of the mostly known pics for Carroll Shelby and his Cobras
i notice the 3 Windows and on right Side the Garage, so first i thought about the Backside of the
Princeton Drive Building , but this was wrong, you will wait a little bit more, but the Princeton Building
never had a garage on the Backside.
Then i thougt about Carter Building with the single Garage on the right side, we are clearly now there is one
from the Pics above ...
But nope, there are only 2 Window Frames between the Backside Garage´s
and third argument why not Carter or Princeton, there is a wood wall on the right Corner ...
so i think about it and find out that the Building in the backround is the next one coming
from Thachter Ave....
Such Details drives me crazy, because i want it correctly for us all ...
Okay is it not so a Surprise like finding the Daytona Coupe in a Backyard but
for me it is important.
(https://abload.de/img/19y7ja2.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=19y7ja2.jpg)
Next Post i will do some closer View of the nearly Outside from the Building which much more
Cars and Details...
Quote from: Richstang on June 23, 2019, 06:55:46 PM
Stephan 'Szabo'
I believe there are many people who are enjoying all your posts, even some who do not posts replies. Don't forget this is the time of year when many people are out enjoying the summer. This weekend we had particularly beautiful weather here in the northeastern US. Also some people just enjoy posts like this and don't have much to contribute when such a terrific effort is done.
Thanks for the reply on the photo of the Cobra in front of the Carter building. Maybe you have a larger monitor to view and save that photo in a larger size. My saved photo does not show those glass doors nearly as well. I really expected 3219 would have "Shelby Enterprises Inc." as seen on the Support vehicle F-series pick-up truck in the attached Dave Friedman photo.
Maybe you can start a new separate thread for the LAX airport hangers facility. I'm sure you know when the old forum crashed we lost Kieth's 'SFM66H' thread with so many of those great "George Watters" photos. Those won't be easy sketches to create for the inside of those two hangers. We will need more help to sort that out.
Thank you very much Richstang, you are absolutly right in bringing some time outside, maybe driving a Shelby and just have some fun...
i would also love to see some Shelby Enterprise Pics and some of this stuff, but i never understand when there is
Shelby Enterprise or Shelby American or Shelby Goodyear ... but at the end, i am interesting in all of this Shelby stuff...
for more Scratch Building from Inside and Outside of Shelby Building ...
i am working hard on Princeton Drive and are almost done with the working area,
but i waiting hopefully for some Pics of Side-Oilers / Van for the Office Area and Entrance to Building
and LAX should be coming too, but for sure it is my Masterpiece and i needed some help and a lot of
Photos too ;D ... but i have something found for Inside drawing and with this i seem a little bit easier ... i tryed a time befor to make this Hangars in 1,64 Scale for Modelcars, but this way toooooooo biiiiiig for my Men Cave.
But i have made some Measurements and this will help beginning ...
Quote from: Szabo on June 24, 2019, 03:05:49 PM
One of the Pics that cost´s me a lot of time to discover where it is happend,
it´s one of the mostly known pics for Carroll Shelby and his Cobras
[/b]
i notice the 3 Windows and on right Side the Garage, so first i thought about the Backside of the
Princeton Drive Building , but this was wrong, you will wait a little bit more, but the Princeton Building
never had a garage on the Backside.
Then i thougt about Carter Building with the single Garage on the right side, we are clearly now there is one
from the Pics above ...
But nope, there are only 2 Window Frames between the Backside Garage´s
and third argument why not Carter or Princeton, there is a wood wall on the right Corner ...
so i think about it and find out that the Building in the backround is the next one coming
from Thachter Ave....
Such Details drives me crazy, because i want it correctly for us all ...
Okay is it not so a Surprise like finding the Daytona Coupe in a Backyard but
for me it is important.
(https://abload.de/img/19y7ja2.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=19y7ja2.jpg)
Yes, this is the building directly behind the Carter Ave building and practically sharing the same parking lot.
A few photos show the pavement is a slightly lighter color. (I've attached one of those photos below.)
We might as well call it the 'Thatcher Building' as we don't know what street address it was given at the time.
The empty dirt lot in between it and Princeton Drive appears to have a realtor 'for sale' sign on it. Also, we don't see any driveway entrances from Princeton.
Perhaps it did have a Thatcher Ave address like the Carter Ave building on the other side.
I also think the Carter Avenue building would be a very noisy building to live next to, but how cool would it have been to peek over the wall!
Thanks for the additional photos and info, guys. I'm still looking for my Princeton pix.
I wonder if the Jaguar XKE's flip-up bonnet had an influence on the flip-top Cobra's front end? Note the dark grey XKE to the far right of the photo with the flip-top.
Also notice in the parking lot shot, a '64 Barracuda and '63 or '64 Sting Ray.
In the shot of the back of the cars on the transport trucks at Carter Ave, what's that on the ground? Clumps of mud? And what dripped onto the trunklid of the car on the right-hand transport? Looks more like oil drips than mud.
Barracuda (with single over-the-top stripe?) and Sting Ray.
Mud on the trunklid (circled) or??
Why would the top car on the left transport not have a rear window? Broken in transit? Future R-Model?
Quote from: Side-Oilers on June 24, 2019, 07:34:43 PM
Mud on the trunklid (circled) or??
Why would the top car on the left transport not have a rear window? Broken in transit? Future R-Model?
Some random thoughts.
Scroll up to where you see the photo of both transporters from the side and notice that almost all the cars on the left transporter, are lacking back glass, lacking rear air extractors, and bumpers. While the one's on the transporter to the right, seem to have back glass, bumpers and the extractors. Perhaps the one's on the left became R's?
From reading about the ordering process for the 65/66's, things also evolved as the cars at SI evolved but also they learned more about what could and couldn't be done at the Ford plant. More done at Fords line = faster out the door at SA.
Quote from: Side-Oilers on June 24, 2019, 07:33:15 PM
Barracuda (with single over-the-top stripe?) and Sting Ray.
Maybe a '65 Formula S Barracuda since it was November '64. Don't know if the stripe was an option in '64.
Hard to see what year the Corvette was. Lot of interesting cars in the parking lot and on Princeton Drive.
Maybe the Jag is a coincidence, maybe not.
Man, I'd hate the ramps to be just the least bit damp and lose traction :o
That'd be a wild ride backwards!!!
Quote from: Side-Oilers on June 24, 2019, 07:34:43 PM
Mud on the trunklid (circled) or??
Why would the top car on the left transport not have a rear window? Broken in transit? Future R-Model?
That doesn't look like mud on the lower trunk lid you circled. (Maybe an oil drip. It seems more likely, but from where?
I would guess the tractor trailer had to make a wide turn into the paved parking lot and drove over the dirt field next to it. That's where the mud on the pavement is likely from.
The first batch of 'R' models were delivered on April 10th 1965. That would seem to fit the Venice location. Very well could be the 'R's'
Quote from: Richstang on June 24, 2019, 08:20:35 PM
Quote from: Side-Oilers on June 24, 2019, 07:33:15 PM
Barracuda (with single over-the-top stripe?) and Sting Ray.
Maybe a '65 Formula S Barracuda since it was November '64. Don't know if the stripe was an option in '64.
Hard to see what year the Corvette was. Lot of interesting cars in the parking lot and on Princeton Drive.
Maybe the Jag is a coincidence, maybe not.
Yep, would probably be a '65 S. Unless someone painted the stripe on a '64.
Agreed we can't see enough of the Sting Ray to determine year.
Rich: Yes, agreed on all that you pointed out.
Quote from: rhjanes on June 24, 2019, 08:19:31 PM
Quote from: Side-Oilers on June 24, 2019, 07:34:43 PM
Mud on the trunklid (circled) or??
Why would the top car on the left transport not have a rear window? Broken in transit? Future R-Model?
Some random thoughts.
Scroll up to where you see the photo of both transporters from the side and notice that almost all the cars on the left transporter, are lacking back glass, lacking rear air extractors, and bumpers. While the one's on the transporter to the right, seem to have back glass, bumpers and the extractors. Perhaps the one's on the left became R's?
From reading about the ordering process for the 65/66's, things also evolved as the cars at SI evolved but also they learned more about what could and couldn't be done at the Ford plant. More done at Fords line = faster out the door at SA.
Good eye on the cars on the left transporter not having those items. Might have been the specific reason for this photo...showing the differences in how they're arriving.
Took a closer look at the side shot of the two transporters that Szabo posted, and it looks like the cars on the left transporter also don't have FRONT bumpers.
That would seem to agree with the idea they were destined as R Models.
Quote from: Side-Oilers on June 24, 2019, 09:18:39 PM
Took a closer look at the side shot of the two transporters that Szabo posted, and it looks like the cars on the left transporter also don't have FRONT bumpers.
That would seem to agree with the idea they were destined as R Models.
The cars without bumpers, no door guts and missing side vents would definitely be R models.
Thanks for the info, Charles.
Van
Hello,
i just finished the next part of the Walk around from Carter Building ...
We walked from the Parking Lot (last post) to the aera right befor the known
Garages ( where Cobras and later GT350´s produced)
Always a place with lot of movment and Action i decided to take a photo
with less Cars but more engines ... ;D
(https://abload.de/img/20vhj50.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=20vhj50.jpg)
Next one is are 3 Pics from a brandnew Mustang Fastback 289 right befor the building ...
i am not sure about it but when i looked at the other Photos of the film
i see a lot of Detailpics were made from the Car...
(And so i guess maybe we see a very early Car from Ford for Shelby to even
make some thoughts about GT350 development)
(https://abload.de/img/21x7k0k.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=21x7k0k.jpg)
another Notice and big surprise for me is looking behind the Stang in the
second Garage, there is a Wall between the 2 Garages :o :o :o
and i see a Car parking in it (maybe this Peter Brock Falcon Delivery Van ??? )
this Wall between Garages was later removed when i make the inside Post from me
(https://abload.de/img/22qkj7n.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=22qkj7n.jpg)
(https://abload.de/img/238vkr5.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=238vkr5.jpg)
Next Step we are going to this 3rd Garage on the backside, a big secret
at this point of my closer Look of the Buildings ...
i have never see any pic of inside this Garage, in some Pics we can see
that the Garage is open but nothing to see inside ot them
(https://abload.de/img/292rjhv.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=292rjhv.jpg)
(https://abload.de/img/31nskfl.png) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=31nskfl.png)
Looking over the GT40
(https://abload.de/img/321bk96.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=321bk96.jpg)
only Pic i found where a car is photo taken ist this coloured one from a Race Cobra
(https://abload.de/img/3337jdx.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=3337jdx.jpg)
Now we go right behind this edge of the Backside to Frontside / Carter Avenue
(https://abload.de/img/34z3js1.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=34z3js1.jpg)
some Photos from the Daytona Coupe after Painting we can expected,
i chose one from the GT40 Roadster Test Mule at Shelby American
you can see the Windows and the last section of the Brick Wall where is a little bit darker
also you can see the Lumber Yard (from the Richstangs drawing) with a lot of wood on it
(https://abload.de/img/3551kli.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=3551kli.jpg)
on this Wall we can see on some Photos there are parking Cars and trailers
and this mystery Bus at the Grass
... and even this well known big Daytona Crash is happend right befor this wall
(https://abload.de/img/110goknm.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=110goknm.jpg)
(https://abload.de/img/111uujzu.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=111uujzu.jpg)
Notice at the right Corner behind this "Hot Rod Styled Car" (sorry i don´t know
the right term or what Car this is) there stand this mystery bus from the other Pic
(https://abload.de/img/112k2k2n.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=112k2k2n.jpg)
So this was the walk around for today
in next step we going on the Frontside of Carter Building
Greets Steve / Szabo
P.S.: feel free to post any Photos for other Details from the Scenes i take
for the walkaround.
Quote from: Szabo on June 25, 2019, 03:06:58 PM
another Notice and big surprise for me is looking behind the Stang in the
second Garage, there is a Wall between the 2 Garages :o :o :o
and i see a Car parking in it (maybe this Peter Brock Falcon Delivery Van ??? )
this Wall between Garages was later removed when i make the inside Post from me
(https://abload.de/img/22qkj7n.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=22qkj7n.jpg)
(https://abload.de/img/238vkr5.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=238vkr5.jpg)
Greets Steve / Szabo
You've discovered another oddity. That wall in between the side by side garage doors is surprising!
We do not see it in the earlier Cobra photos (from the late 62-63 era) and we do not see it in the GT350 photos (from the early spring '65).
I'm baffled why they would add it and then remove it not long after it was put in.
The station wagon we see in the second garage area is a full size Ford Galaxie wagon. So it is not the Falcon delivery used by Pete Brock.
That station wagon in the shop looks like a '65 Country Sedan...and is very similar to the one seen in the photo of the Daytona that fell off the ramps.
Does that '65 Mustang fastback look like it's probably red, or blue? I'm guessing red.
For me it looks like Red too ...
but on Black and White Photos is it hard to find out
Quote from: Richstang on June 25, 2019, 04:53:50 PM
You've discovered another oddity. That wall in between the side by side garage doors is surprising!
We do not see it in the earlier Cobra photos (from the late 62-63 era) and we do not see it in the GT350 photos (from the early spring '65).
I'm baffled why they would add it and then remove it not long after it was put in.
The station wagon we see in the second garage area is a full size Ford Galaxie wagon. So it is not the Falcon delivery used by Pete Brock.
Hmm, yeah i already thinked about to, make no logic sense but maybe we have a little Time problem here...
Unfortnaly i dont came on all this Time when the Photos are taken... was it June 1965, or May 1963 or almost 1960,
for me it is just about the Buildings at the Moment...
But when i am right and this Mustang arrived as a "Test Object" then when this could happend ?
on April 17, 1964 the Mustang come up on the Market
but surley they are some pre production cars to bring it to Shelby
but when i read on http://1965gt350mustang.com/history.html
i came on struggle with all of this Datecodes ...
Only think i thougt: At which Datacode where the Cobra Pics in Shop made ?.
anyone who can describe when Cobra was produced at my postet pics ?
I am not sure at this moment, but i only saw inside pics from Cobraproduction on my posted pics,
and they are all taken at 1 Day ... same Cars at different points in the Shop
Maybe the Wall came out befor this Cobra pics are made, and later on the GT350s begin ...
Another Question i am struggle, when Production begins at Carter, and when on Princeton ?
... oh Lord, i am getting headache again :o
The hardtop and convertible were the only models built for the Mustang introduction in April 1964. The production of the fastback model did not start until late September and was introduced as a 1965 model. Based on the '1965GT350 Mustang' article it sounds like the poppy red(?) fastback showed up in Venice around August-September '64. It may have been a pilot car built, but I am not certain.
We don't know the exact dates but, the Cobra photos inside the Carter building appear to be much earlier, perhaps in 1962-63. We can see some photos of those Cobra's without the side vents. Certainly the layout of the work area was more spacious at the time. The '65 GT350s arrived very late in Venice history...I suspect in early '65.
The photo with the Mustang fastback appears to fall in somewhere in between those two time frames. That is why the wall in between the two garage doors is odd.
I love looking at the old cars in the background. There is an oval window VW and an e type jag that I found. I think I remember hearing that the workers with corvettes had to park them out of sight from the boss ;)
i loved it too... this VW Beetle Oval Window is often see in Princeton Pics and later in LAX ...
would be nice to know who drives what Car working for Shelby.
Hello,
so i am finished the last Side from the Carter Ave Building,
and it is the Front Side...
Like Richstang says it does not exist (at this Point of time) a Pic of the Hole Front side...
So i made my best and like to begin right after the last Edge and on the left Side from the Front Side
i learned that this is a King Cobra, because of the angel of the Pic we can look at the Princeton Drive to the Edege of the Paraglide Building
(https://abload.de/img/36o1j3j.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=36o1j3j.jpg)
next Pic we see the First part of the Entrance to 3321
(https://abload.de/img/37wejbm.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=37wejbm.jpg)
at the next Pic we have it coloured ( i loved this old coloured Pics )
(https://abload.de/img/39h8jm3.png) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=39h8jm3.png)
this time with hole Entrance to 3321,
Funny Fact: it seems to be a "Open Door Day" at this point, we will see
that Fact in some other Pics coming
(https://abload.de/img/38wfkl0.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=38wfkl0.jpg)
one of the most know Pics today
(https://abload.de/img/43ckkz7.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=43ckkz7.jpg)
(https://abload.de/img/44k4joj.png) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=44k4joj.png)
From the Book Shelby Cobra "The Shelby American Original Archives"
Question: maybe somone had this Book and can make me some Pics
from the content, Book ist from 1994
Some Pics we all know as Black/White is in the Book coloured,
and as i say, I still loved that. In Germany hard to find ...
(https://abload.de/img/474ejag.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=474ejag.jpg)
this time with a GT350, notice first window of the Goodyear Section of
the Building.
(https://abload.de/img/46cdjh6.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=46cdjh6.jpg)
next Pic shows the hole Goodyear Section between 3321 to 3219 Carter Ave.
Again coloured
Note: the first Windows seems not to have a Glass front, it is closed and
just seems to be a Window to match with the real Glass Window to the next
(https://abload.de/img/4876kmh.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=4876kmh.jpg)
Probaly the best Pic for a hole Shoot directly from Carter Ave.
(https://abload.de/img/50w3jtg.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=50w3jtg.jpg)
a secton shoot from the Pic befor we can see that 3219 and 3217 are both
Shelby American Section ...
For a higher Res of the Section please go to the Henry Ford Site
and enlarge the Pic, i just tryed a several time for better result, but
when i downloaded and reloadet it comes always unshaped
(https://abload.de/img/52t5kev.png) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=52t5kev.png)
After 3217 the Building goes still on at the right side, but no photos with Cars
are known...
the only shoot from 3321 was a mistake, but we can see there is another
Brick Wall section with a Window Frame, then they comes a Wall from
the next Building (the Living House area right behind Shelby Carter Building)
(https://abload.de/img/548yk1d.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=548yk1d.jpg)
So what you thing about the rework for the hole front side ...
and even the hole Walk Around of Carter Building thing
I am still struggle when Shelby produced Cars at the Building,
it is right from 62 with Cobras and to 64 with 1.st Daytona Coupe see in the Paint Booth
and of course the first 1965 GT350
I hope you enjoyed the hole Walk around thing, i will soon
start with Princenton Drive 1042 Building on a new thread
Would be nice to see some answers ...
Greets
Steve from Germany
P.S.: would love to see a good Drawing from the hole Side like the
modelcar Factory "Greenlight" sometimes do when offers ne Buildings,
but i am to noobed for something good as this....
(https://abload.de/img/51868979_101615800249w4j1v.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=51868979_101615800249w4j1v.jpg)
Are there "today, now" pics?
Good Question...
Carter Avenue as seen on the Pics are not exist in this Form anymore...
The hole Area is now with Living Houses, i looked at google Earth for this quick overview.
I am not sure about the Carter Building was stand like i drawing, must look at the Friedmann Pics for right
behind the Brick Wall ... i guess there were some Details
but maybe another Member (Richstang) can help me little bit befor i looked Hours for some Details
(https://abload.de/img/adfadfqgjnx.png) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=adfadfqgjnx.png)
Thanks Szabo & Richstang, once again for all the info. I am still searching for my lost Princeton photos.
No one swimming in the pool of the new buildings on Carter Ave ever would suspect that they are swimming on the exact spot of Cobra production!
The red outline square that Stephan 'Szabo' drew is just about as close as correct you can get from that orthographic viewpoint.
It's too bad they knocked it down, but at least the 1042 Princeton building (and the 1038-1040 building) are both still there.
With recent renovation to both of them they should be there for a while.
It looks like the cinderblock wall is still there on the small house properties with another stucco wall in front of it on the condo / apartment property.
The grassy area in between them was very likely required by code for emergency access behind the gigantic complex.
Thanks for confirmation on my drawing ...
i saw it at a praise from an Expert.
Boy a week or so befor this Point i had no clue from the hole things like they stand together.
My Wife thinks i am nuts at all to spend so much time in these Pics and story but
i learned a lot and even speaks and think in Englisch conversation puts me forward....
Glad to have these input from Forum
Greets
Steve
That entire neighborhood around Carter/Princeton is going to be changed even more in the coming years.
It is technically located all in Los Angeles, and backs up to Marina del Rey, which is also part of LA. Venice is a part of Los Angeles too, not a separate city.
There is a nearby area now called Playa Vista (where the old Hughes Aircraft Company was located, in Culver City) to the south that's the "new Silicon Valley," nicknamed "Silicon Beach." Meaning lots and lots of people moving in to serve the newly built Google, Amazon, Apple, HBO etc., buildings. Google is located inside the massive 300,000 sq/ft hangar where Howard Hughes's "Spruce Goose" was built.
Many of the normal family houses like those backed up to Carter, and like the ones I lived in as a kid in nearby Culver City, are $1million dollars. Crazy.
We are fortunate that the Princeton buildings have been renovated instead of torn down. Hope it stays that way.
So i finished with Inside and Outside of Carter Building
i would be pleased if you guys form the Forum
just push some Pics into the Thread ...
with every Pic and Detials we will learned more about
Carter Building...
i just will startet with these 3 Pics.
between Edge and first Entrance to 3221, these Pic was made..
(https://abload.de/img/37gekj5.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=37gekj5.jpg)
New Pic
Cobra with Engine Pic, the Cobra doesn`t stand at the point befor, but when i look on the Wall still
at Carter Frontside ... but where could this be ?
(https://abload.de/img/f17892ee95aadaf0be3b3x1kir.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=f17892ee95aadaf0be3b3x1kir.jpg)
and also another Pic from GT350 befor Carter at 3321 (was this the 1st GT350 produced)
(https://abload.de/img/83e29e64ac6d196c203b3kbjnh.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=83e29e64ac6d196c203b3kbjnh.jpg)
The Third will be the most unkown GT350 to me at this point
We see the street from Backside to Frontside, befor the Lumberjack / Wood Aera
and we see the Brick Wall with darker Front Aera and lower Window
for sure, it is Carter Building
what i know about the GT350 we see, it looks like a Prototype of GT350 with the large Filler Cap,
R-Model Backside Window ...
(https://abload.de/img/0c8f027a809140a54a19389kw2.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=0c8f027a809140a54a19389kw2.jpg)
What you think, share your thougt about that and these ...
Steve,
You keep busy! Your second photo of the Cobra with the engine stand was likely taken in between 3221 and 3219. It the picture was a little bit higher up we would likely see that Goodyear logo in the window. I don't think there is enough space on the side of 3217 for it to have been taken there.
Yes, the white car (no lemans stripes) in the rear view photo was one of the two prototypes. That one was the competition model. Here's a few other photos of it including one with a different side stripe, and different front valance openings, of coarse both never made it into production. These all appear to have photographed on the side of the Carter Ave building as you suggested.
Quote from: Richstang on June 27, 2019, 09:18:28 PM
Steve,
You keep busy! Your second photo of the Cobra with the engine stand was likely taken in between 3221 and 3219. It the picture was a little bit higher up we would likely see that Goodyear logo in the window. I don't think there is enough space on the side of 3217 for it to have been taken there.
Hey, thanks for your thougts, i looked also at this Pic for a long time..
First different Details is on the cobra, one my first 2 Pics there is one Signature on the Hardtop,
its from the Driver ... Jere Kirkpatrick
on the "Engine" Pic there are more Signature, unfortanally i cant explain what they stand,
maybe more drivers, the race team members or the victories...
second Different Details are the position befor Carter Building
first lets the Pic from 3221 like we see it on from firs Pic
and you are right, right after 3221 comes the first "Goodyear" Window ..
BUT, look at the Stones right after the Entrance of 3221, they are Stones with plants in it ...
on my last pic dont so...
(https://abload.de/img/3728jth.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=3728jth.jpg)
(https://abload.de/img/38q1k7g.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=38q1k7g.jpg)
(https://abload.de/img/f17892ee95aadaf0be3b3tfjqt.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=f17892ee95aadaf0be3b3tfjqt.jpg)
the only Spot where no Plants in Stones was were befor 3321 or even after 3217 to the end of the left side,
(https://abload.de/img/50t0k94.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=50t0k94.jpg)
when you look of that mistake Pic, and i know this is very little shown, i see this Details after 3217 ... (https://abload.de/img/54vljsf.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=54vljsf.jpg)
So i suppose the second (later) Pic stands behind 3217, and for this Point in my Resach it would be the only Pic i have after 3217 ...
but that could also be a Wrong way suggestion...
What do you think ???
Second Post is a little bit easier to clear at this "Dragonsnake" Location...
at this Point we even have not seen in the Frontside of Carter Avenue... i see some Office Pics and first i dont
notice this very much ...
meanwhile i overthought this and do some flowing images, if this Term is right...
Our standpoint at this is in a Office from Carter Avenue, we start from the left corner and slide to the right ...
(https://abload.de/img/557yjy2.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=557yjy2.jpg)
this is a "Mistake" Pic but when you overlay ist with the next you see all this little things on the Tabel,
but al little bit other than on the Pic befor... i proofed it about 10 Times, i must be the same office maybe on a
different time because Cars are not the same ...
we see a large Window in the middle in the Room, befor there ist the front parking lot for visitors and behind this
you will see this Lumber Jack Place right over the street from Carter Ave.
(https://abload.de/img/57eojbv.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=57eojbv.jpg)
second one of this Center Window Pic is much better for Detail work and so we see a Thunderbird ? stay befor
and the most notible Details are this Pics of the Section Wall at the right Corner of the Office
(https://abload.de/img/58luk5e.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=58luk5e.jpg)
next pic is showing area behind the inner door of the section wall, same Woman as befor ... litte fun action with a Manager Person or so...
notice the Pics on the Wall again
(https://abload.de/img/590rkwt.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=590rkwt.jpg)
same Wall, same Pics but we see a little bit more of the room to corner from Wall 2 to 3 (Backside Wall from Center Window)
(https://abload.de/img/6050j4c.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=6050j4c.jpg)
(https://abload.de/img/61pzkmi.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=61pzkmi.jpg)
last pic is still the corner, we see some more Pic after the Corner
(https://abload.de/img/62dtj9i.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=62dtj9i.jpg)
i found even more office pics but i am not sure if this is Carter or Princeton and so i have to decided to show
but not to located where it is exactly...
(https://abload.de/img/63jokip.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=63jokip.jpg)
(https://abload.de/img/6424jhz.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=6424jhz.jpg)
This will be the End of my Carter Ave. Resarch, do you have even some more pics from Carter
to keep the Thread alive...
Yes, 1964 Thunderbird visible out the office window. I like the wheels. Chrome reverse?
Also note the fender skirts have been removed, ala the 1962-63 Sports Roadsters.
These "mistake" photos are often among the most interesting shots on a roll...and are usually just the one or two frames you burn when starting a new roll.
Gotta love the old days of secretaries and men just having good clean fun in the office. And the cigarettes going most of the time.
Can anyone make out the titles of the magazines sitting on the desk of the blonde woman on the phone (the last photo in this group)? Looks like might be car mags, but I can't read the titles. The one on the left appears to say "'64 CARS" on the cover. It looks like an illustration from a Motor Trend issue that I remember. Maybe used here in a Petersen Publishing specialty publication (annual) about the 1964 cars.
Quote from: Szabo on June 30, 2019, 03:14:01 PM
Quote from: Richstang on June 27, 2019, 09:18:28 PM
Steve,
You keep busy! Your second photo of the Cobra with the engine stand was likely taken in between 3221 and 3219. It the picture was a little bit higher up we would likely see that Goodyear logo in the window. I don't think there is enough space on the side of 3217 for it to have been taken there.
Hey, thanks for your thougts, i looked also at this Pic for a long time..
First different Details is on the cobra, one my first 2 Pics there is one Signature on the Hardtop,
its from the Driver ... Jere Kirkpatrick
on the "Engine" Pic there are more Signature, unfortanally i cant explain what they stand,
maybe more drivers, the race team members or the victories...
second Different Details are the position befor Carter Building
first lets the Pic from 3221 like we see it on from firs Pic
and you are right, right after 3221 comes the first "Goodyear" Window ..
BUT, look at the Stones right after the Entrance of 3221, they are Stones with plants in it ...
on my last pic dont so...
(https://abload.de/img/f17892ee95aadaf0be3b3tfjqt.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=f17892ee95aadaf0be3b3tfjqt.jpg)
So I suppose the second (later) Pic stands behind 3217, and for this Point in my Research it would be the only Pic I have after 3217 ...
but that could also be a Wrong way suggestion...
What do you think ???
Steve, you are correct.
This photo of this DragonSnake (CSX2357) with the engine on the stand is definitely to the right side of the entrance of 3217 Carter Ave.
Without the short stonewall border for the plants, that could only be at the right corner of the building.
Finally we have a photo from this side of the building! Well Done!!
Here is a the same photo (in color) used for the cover of this magazine.
Looking through my Cobra photo files, there are no other photos that show the additional names added to the hardtop roof.
However this magazine website shows that this issue does have another photo of the car with all the added names. Maybe some who reads this will have a copy of this issue and posted a photo for us all. http://www.shelbyford.com/magazines.html
Great to see that photo in color! Nice find!
Hey, I know that guy who wrote the Jan 1995 Motor Trend "Secret Shelbys" article shown in the link.
Amazing Rework on the "Dragonsnake with Engine" Pic ... love the Coloured ones ...
THANK YOU VERY MUCH !!!
so you conirmed my suggestion i will this add to the Main Thread to have an overall view from Frontside
Here's a close up of the lettering on the side of the dragonsnake
Thank a lot --- aimed by means in German fixed for the races...
Any words for the office post also :-D ?
'aimed by' is an unusual choice of words to me.
I assumed it meant they were the crew who built and raced it.
I do not have much too add about the office photos.
We know some were the Carter building since we see a couple of the photos looking at the first floor windows.
Maybe they were all taken there? It is difficult to say where each photos was taken with so few to look at.
Just do some afterworks for the Carter Building ...
i will add the Birdview Pic from Side-Oiler of the HistoricAriels Homepage,
thank you very much ...
(https://abload.de/img/princetonandcarter1967kj0u.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=princetonandcarter1967kj0u.jpg)
Then i found a little bit for this Standard K-code Mustang 2+2 in back of Carter Building,
the thougs are from David Friedmann for a magazine...
Seems this was a sort of Prototype or Testmule for the GT350 Launch ...
Maybe this Section Wall, to work on the Mule and Prototype Forms for this one,
only some thougs for me... is anybody known about this Red one Pre Prototype Stang
(https://abload.de/img/unbenanntcfffu5kl2.png) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=unbenanntcfffu5kl2.png)
and for last at this moment
i found this Pics near by the Carter Building Negatives, could this be inside from Carter Building ???
i am really not sure, probbaly i would say even more NO then YES
David McDonald is given a Medaille, even we see there is a Cobra standing in forground, but what all the
other Cars there ??? i see a T-Bird too
but CS are not sale with another Cars ...
Just let me know your thougts about this Pics
(https://abload.de/img/6925742185_2c47de540bkrkds.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=6925742185_2c47de540bkrkds.jpg)
(https://abload.de/img/6779627070_5a69c4d0141vkf2.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=6779627070_5a69c4d0141vkf2.jpg)
(https://abload.de/img/6779626188_fdcf1cdc52xtk38.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=6779626188_fdcf1cdc52xtk38.jpg)
(https://abload.de/img/6925743245_be66f0615e6gkzd.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=6925743245_be66f0615e6gkzd.jpg)
Looks like a Ford dealership. Ken Miles and Dave sitting in a Cobra. Carroll also there. I would guess the older man is the dealership owner and the other man, perhaps his general manager. The award is interesting. It is pretty small and is a man throwing a disc's?! Like the Olympics. So, Dave getting an award from a So-Cal dealership for "Sportsman of the Year, XYZ Dealership"???
Szabo, thanks for posting those photos of Miles & MacDonald with Carroll, I came across those as well, "rhjanes" here is the info that was with the images.
Mike
thanks!
I just had a thought that the Ford dealer shown with MacDonald, etc., might have been Culver Ford. That dealer was located a stone's throw from the Helms Bakeries headquarters (Culver City, CA) and I've seen pix of that dealer with a 289 Cobra in the showroom.
Quote from: Side-Oilers on July 05, 2019, 09:27:33 PM
I just had a thought that the Ford dealer shown with MacDonald, etc., might have been Culver Ford. That dealer was located a stone's throw from the Helms Bakeries headquarters (Culver City, CA) and I've seen pix of that dealer with a 289 Cobra in the showroom.
I think you've identified the correct dealer of the McDonald / Miles / Shelby photo series.
Here's the pic you mentioned with a white cobra on the showroom floor next to the window. It might even be the same Cobra.
The wall, supports, and materials all seem to be a match. Nicely done!
Thanks Rich, glad that proved out.
Seeing that pix you posted jogged my memory further. The photo you posted was (I believe) from the 1964 yearbook from Culver City High School, which was my H.S. too (but I attended many years later.)
I'd been searching through old CCHS yearbooks online and that's where I saw that Cobra pix originally. I posted it somewhere when I found it (four or five years ago) so perhaps that's how you found it too.
I found it searching through 'Bing' under 'Cobra Dealerships'.
It appears to have been posted on 'Pinterest.jp', where everyone copies and posts photos.
If that was your find originally shared, thanks for that too!
I couldn't find that dealer photo on the forum, maybe another lost item from version 1.0.
:'(
It's great to have someone from the area where this all started. Culver City seems to be the center point of that movement.
Lol, you guys impress me with the information and photos and especially your memories and how you find all the photos and compare to other photos to nail down locations.
Keep the info rolling 8) 8)
Thanks guys, it's all part of the fun. Although, I'm sure many/most/all of our spouses think we're nuts.
Quote from: Side-Oilers on July 06, 2019, 01:22:23 PM
Thanks guys, it's all part of the fun. Although, I'm sure many/most/all of our spouses think we're nuts.
Are families are probably happy we're not out getting in trouble and off the couch staring at the TV's.
It's when we're in the garage they start worrying. ;D
;D
What a detectiv work on this ... Great !!!
so you have proofed it is not inside Carter Ave.
Thank you very much ...
Just to further corroborate: I located a 1964 yearbook from Culver City High School, and found the same photo of the white 289 Cobra on Culver Motors' showroom.
Long Time no action in the Carter Street Thread
but I found a new pic for Carter Street ...
i think normally nobody could clearly say where the Daytona stand ...
but throu this thread and a closer view we can clearly say it right at the front edge from Carter Avenue
ready to drive the long sideway through the Backside where the Workshop Garage was ...
on the opposite street we can see the long lumberjack aera with a lot of wood
on Flickr, where i found the Pic it is spoken that this Daytona is CSX2300 nearly befor the Race
from Daytona Continental 2000km in 1965 ... anybody have a proof on that ?
and maybe a funny fact on this one ... look at the Mustang Convertible in the Backround, wears some
5 Spoke Cragar ? oder Torq Thrust ? Wheels ...
(https://abload.de/img/8657043053_909f3b7aafuojho.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=8657043053_909f3b7aafuojho.jpg)
it is the same one standing behind the Prototyp R Model in Princeton Drive ...
defentily a Shelby Employee drive it ...
(https://abload.de/img/6779581414_ee978ce6bdkmkw6.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=6779581414_ee978ce6bdkmkw6.jpg)
Feel free to share every Thougts you have - keep the Thread alive !
The convertible with torque thrusts and whitewalls is certainly different.
The Daytona in the driveway does appear to be CSX2300.
Each of the Daytona's are slightly unique in some of the features, but it should be noted they do change on each car over time.
For the Daytona Continental in '65 notice this Daytona Coupe has two cowl vents that are very tall and round.
The hood vent (left side) is also tall and round and is not facing completely forward, but rather slightly angled towards the right side. It's really obvious in this top view on the embankment
Quote from: Side-Oilers on July 12, 2019, 02:46:48 PM
Just to further corroborate: I located a 1964 yearbook from Culver City High School, and found the same photo of the white 289 Cobra on Culver Motors' showroom.
Nice!
Hello again...
i still do research on all sites, discover magazines and looking for the little breadcrumbs
on an old Car Life Special Edition Magazine i found a pic i never saw befor ...
Unfortuenally no exact Date was on the Cover ... only Copyright on 1965 was standing ...
so i must do some other research and for sure when the Special Editon is from Car Life so maybe do some
advertisment in his own monthly magazine...
i found several Advertisment for the Special Edition, the earlist was described to found the Special Edition
on 18. May 1965 ...
so the Pic was surley made befor ...
but lets have a look on the Pic ...
(https://abload.de/img/mustangacompleteguide5gkad.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=mustangacompleteguide5gkad.jpg)
(https://abload.de/img/mustangacompleteguidettk8s.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=mustangacompleteguidettk8s.jpg)
i found this very interessting ...
when i looked at this upper pic i am suggesting this one on the backside Carter Ave. Parking lot ...
you can see this Parking Edge bricks on the ground ...
the hole Place is a little bit hectic organised
on the foreground i think there are 2 GT350 R, maybe the first one every made ... the back panels are have this
enlarged darker aera which we all now from 5R001 and 5R002 ...
and on the backside we see the hole lot full of GT350 ... i think this should be the first produced in Carter Ave.
and i think are about 30 - 40 GT350´s
What you think about this ?
Do you agree with me or have opposite thoughts ...
Let me just know ...
(https://abload.de/img/mustangacompleteguides1ka9.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=mustangacompleteguides1ka9.jpg)
Nice photos from the Car Life Magazine. I recall discussing these with Kieth SFM66H a few years ago.
The cover photo MIGHT have been at the GT350 introduction at Riverside on Jan 27, 1965. I do NOT have proof of that guess
I would agree the top B&W photo appears to be in the back lot of the Carter Ave building.
My guess is we are looking from the side driveway near the back corner with the R models in the foreground.
The two bottom photos appear to be 5r002. This might be at Willow Springs or Riverside for testing, likely in January of 1965 also.
Thanks for quick answer ...
looking all my research was made already :D
for me all is new but i cant detail what i see...
for the angle of photo is taken i would say that it was right out of the garage gate from backside ..
when you look at this parking bricks on the floor, there are standing vertical to the photographer
i think on this pic it is clearier to see
(https://abload.de/img/19y7ja2.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=19y7ja2.jpg)
OK, I see what you mean.
The cement parking blocks appear across a level horizon. That should indicate a straight view from the back of the building as they separate each row of parking areas. Since we don't see any dirt or driveway, that might be on the side of the building with the cinderblock wall. Maybe from out of one of the garage doors as you said.
;D
Quote from: Szabo on August 02, 2019, 03:30:48 PM
(https://abload.de/img/mustangacompleteguide5gkad.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=mustangacompleteguide5gkad.jpg)
My first GT350 sighting was at RIR. There was one parked next to a snackbar on the outside of the esses.
Neat that you remember you first sighting...and exactly where at the track.
8)
The earliest I can recall seeing a Shelby in person (not in a magazine) was a Brittany Blue '67 Shelby in Ridgewood, NJ.
It was in the showroom at Village Ford in the '80s. I was still riding my bike around at that point...
Quote from: Richstang on August 02, 2019, 04:27:59 PM
Nice photos from the Car Life Magazine. I recall discussing these with Kieth SFM66H a few years ago.
The cover photo MIGHT have been at the GT350 introduction at Riverside on Jan 27, 1965. I do NOT have proof of that guess
Considering there's a GT in the background, I'd have to guess it was sometime later.
Quote from: Richstang on August 02, 2019, 06:45:52 PM
Neat that you remember you first sighting...and exactly where at the track.
8)
15 year old kid into all things car. I got my first one in 8th grade when I traded my 1/4 midget for a 28 Dodge. Our Boy Scout troop took Riverside posters around to all the stores in town to put in their windows. We got in for free - the esses and turn 6 were my favorite spots.
What address and building did I go to By the LA airport in 70/71 to buy my Goodyear racing tires from Shelby for my Datsun 2000??
Still found new pics when i am on research for other Threads ...
on a backtime story in Shelby Annual 2008 i found an new one, a GT350 standing on jacks and become the new steering Wheel.
(https://abload.de/img/11ed5750cd518ca6ffc8ebdjqk.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=11ed5750cd518ca6ffc8ebdjqk.jpg)
Floor protectors (cardboard or paper?) and plastic seat covers! That's not something I've ever noticed before.
:o
Thanks again for sharing these photos.
:)
Quote from: Richstang on August 25, 2019, 06:31:12 PM
Floor protectors (cardboard or paper?) and plastic seat covers! That's not something I've ever noticed before.
Shelby needed something (though not complete or heavy duty) to at least minimize possible additional work and at least dirt/grease.
Unfortunately the sill plates were left exposed
Quote from: Szabo on August 02, 2019, 03:30:48 PM
Hello again...
i still do research on all sites, discover magazines and looking for the little breadcrumbs
on an old Car Life Special Edition Magazine i found a pic i never saw befor ...
Unfortuenally no exact Date was on the Cover ... only Copyright on 1965 was standing ...
so i must do some other research and for sure when the Special Editon is from Car Life so maybe do some
advertisment in his own monthly magazine...
i found several Advertisment for the Special Edition, the earlist was described to found the Special Edition
on 18. May 1965 ...
so the Pic was surley made befor ...
but lets have a look on the Pic ...
(https://abload.de/img/mustangacompleteguide5gkad.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=mustangacompleteguide5gkad.jpg)
(https://abload.de/img/mustangacompleteguidettk8s.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=mustangacompleteguidettk8s.jpg)
i found this very interessting ...
when i looked at this upper pic i am suggesting this one on the backside Carter Ave. Parking lot ...
you can see this Parking Edge bricks on the ground ...
the hole Place is a little bit hectic organised
on the foreground i think there are 2 GT350 R, maybe the first one every made ... the back panels are have this
enlarged darker aera which we all now from 5R001 and 5R002 ...
and on the backside we see the hole lot full of GT350 ... i think this should be the first produced in Carter Ave.
and i think are about 30 - 40 GT350´s
What you think about this ?
Do you agree with me or have opposite thoughts ...
Let me just know ...
(https://abload.de/img/mustangacompleteguides1ka9.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=mustangacompleteguides1ka9.jpg)
Steve: I have that magazine...somewhere. I'll do some digging and see if I can locate it.
Sometimes you only find 1 new Pic but every little Breadcrumbs show
a little bit more of the full story ...
Always a Question for Carter Building was the Frontside and what where
after the third door to 3217 ...
I have this 2 Pics befor ...
"The Mistaken one" shows the hole front and you see that after the third door
only a few Palm canvers shown then it comes to a brick Wall
(https://abload.de/img/54nqjnu.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=54nqjnu.jpg)
"The Dragonsnake" stands right after 3217 and shows another window and some different brick wall
(https://abload.de/img/f17892ee95aadaf0be3b3hbkhm.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=f17892ee95aadaf0be3b3hbkhm.jpg)
Right between there comes the New Pic from Peter Brock sign some skeetches on a table
right befor the Frontside in the Parking Lot
no hiding, prototyp thing nowadays :-D
(https://abload.de/img/558lkeh.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=558lkeh.jpg)
we have a very good look on the textur and structur of the Building and the window
and to the wall comes at the right ...
My Thoughts are that after 3217 there was the "Design"Buero for Peter Brock,
no proofed detail but i suggest so.
Not very sensationell, but a little breadcrumb in this hole puzzle.
Greets from Germany
Steve
Stephan,
Excellent photo find!
This is the first photo I've seen on that right side of the building next to the entrance door for 3217 Carter Ave.
I do believe the third door was part of Shelby American Inc. We just don't know exactly what that office was used for.
Maybe it was the design studio or Pete Brock's "Special Projects" office.
Quote from: Szabo on August 02, 2019, 03:30:48 PM
Hello again...
i still do research on all sites, discover magazines and looking for the little breadcrumbs
(https://abload.de/img/mustangacompleteguides1ka9.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=mustangacompleteguides1ka9.jpg)
Hello again,
i found another little Pic on the 10.000 Mile Test from 5S007 in Sport Car Graphic, printed June 1965
we can see another outside Production Pic from early Shelby GT350 Production on Carter Avenue
it fit very good to the one befor ...
in the backround we can see the Plastiglide Building (left) and Princeton Drive 1042 (right)
(https://abload.de/img/21jxkn8.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=21jxkn8.jpg)
i searched the Peterson Archiv and found very nice and interessting Pics from
production of the first Shelbys inside the Carter Building
because the Reporter looks similar in every pic showed and the numbers from Peterson
are chronologically given i think the pics was made all on one shoot ...
The Pics later was used to for different articels but the Reporter ( i think it is John Christy ??? )
edith: it was LeRoi "Tex" Smith
has nearly every Shelby Part in the Hand and photographed
let´s start with some pics which are well known
(https://abload.de/img/942496scr_wm_8fe9a878jbk4g.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=942496scr_wm_8fe9a878jbk4g.jpg)
(https://abload.de/img/942497scr_wm_c0c8c62547k3w.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=942497scr_wm_c0c8c62547k3w.jpg)
the Parts that are used
(https://abload.de/img/935836scr_wm_51a6c80b0xjio.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=935836scr_wm_51a6c80b0xjio.jpg)
(https://abload.de/img/942844scr_wm_481aed59v1kwh.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=942844scr_wm_481aed59v1kwh.jpg)
(https://abload.de/img/942413scr_wm_1aa3a1fag7jms.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=942413scr_wm_1aa3a1fag7jms.jpg)
(https://abload.de/img/942416scr_wm_d1f9a957dekvr.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=942416scr_wm_d1f9a957dekvr.jpg)
(https://abload.de/img/942419scr_wm_4c56acd9yekd9.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=942419scr_wm_4c56acd9yekd9.jpg)
(https://abload.de/img/942421scr_wm_80809f04jhj8b.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=942421scr_wm_80809f04jhj8b.jpg)
(https://abload.de/img/942422scr_wm_ba151304d9k8i.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=942422scr_wm_ba151304d9k8i.jpg)
(https://abload.de/img/942426scr_wm_19d5584bx4jgr.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=942426scr_wm_19d5584bx4jgr.jpg)
(https://abload.de/img/942445scr_wm_616588ca1xk09.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=942445scr_wm_616588ca1xk09.jpg)
(https://abload.de/img/942477scr_wm_49256eace9jxc.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=942477scr_wm_49256eace9jxc.jpg)
(https://abload.de/img/942485scr_wm_460807e9ngkkf.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=942485scr_wm_460807e9ngkkf.jpg)
(https://abload.de/img/942488pre_wm_8e59e48f6rk6x.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=942488pre_wm_8e59e48f6rk6x.jpg)
Three 2-V Induction Cobra Kit ???
(https://abload.de/img/942486scr_wm_86d4712c5xjtw.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=942486scr_wm_86d4712c5xjtw.jpg)
even a Competion Model was made ( 5001 or 5002)
(https://abload.de/img/942453scr_wm_93dbbdcarejaz.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=942453scr_wm_93dbbdcarejaz.jpg)
and one was finished for a little Sit in ...
(https://abload.de/img/942490scr_wm_12516e58s7k7x.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=942490scr_wm_12516e58s7k7x.jpg)
(https://abload.de/img/942491scr_wm_ea75d43f4yj8z.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=942491scr_wm_ea75d43f4yj8z.jpg)
Guess I always thought side pipe extended out bit more than the example in the pic with guy installing 5 spokes.. Looks like pipe may be cut at a slight angle?
The orignal Petersen contact sheets would have had the photographer's name written on the back. IDK if that information was connected to the digital images. As for the editor type holding the parts it sure looks like LeRoi "Tex" Smith, who was a Hot Rod feature editor during that time.
Dual-four-barrels (Carters) vs single Holley... and A/C?
...also, what are these two units?
Quote from: JD on December 12, 2020, 07:35:26 PM
...also, what are these two units?
Orange upper right unit would be the remote reservoir for the power steering used on early 65 and 64 1/2 Mustangs with that option
Looks like it was a very loaded up Mustang they were using. Has power brakes as well as the AC and PS
Other box may be a control box for sensors and such for testing and recording information. Seen similar on other Ford test vehicles
Couple observations from the first parts pic...
Gray color header gaskets
White carb base gaskets
Light color rocker cover gaskets, look like regular cork.
Also, looks like a label on the long battery cable near the attachment at the solenoid. Anyone seen one before and know what was on it?
Quote from: CharlesTurner on December 13, 2020, 01:41:04 AM
Also, looks like a label on the long battery cable near the attachment at the solenoid. Anyone seen one before and know what was on it?
Don't see it again in the engine compartment pictures. Challenge is knowing what cars are in the pictures and when this was all going on so one could apply the details to the original set or individual car(s)
Yes noticed the gaskets in that one picture also guessing very early cars maybe before they got all the supply lines/provider groups up and established
What kind of car are you guys thinking that is?
The color of the fender looks awful dark to be a GT350?
In one of the pictures, it shows the pass side side pipe. Is that typical of how pipe was cut ??
Quote from: J_Speegle on December 13, 2020, 04:58:36 AM
Quote from: CharlesTurner on December 13, 2020, 01:41:04 AM
Also, looks like a label on the long battery cable near the attachment at the solenoid. Anyone seen one before and know what was on it?
Don't see it again in the engine compartment pictures. Challenge is knowing what cars are in the pictures and when this was all going on so one could apply the details to the original set or individual car(s)
Yes noticed the gaskets in that one picture also guessing very early cars maybe before they got all the supply lines/provider groups up and established
In this picture Jeff.
Charles, rather than a label on the battery cable, it appears to be heat-shrink tubing used as a strain relief.
In the picture of the guy holding the dual 4 manifold that car has air conditioning. Did you guys notice that
Quote from: Scott b on December 13, 2020, 01:29:19 PM
In the picture of the guy holding the dual 4 manifold that car has air conditioning. Did you guys notice that
Yes as mentioned - did you notice its a Mustang. Possibly not a K code though it did at the time of the pictures have a dual point but like the valve covers and intake that could be added. Likely another test mule for ideas and testing given the other details
Quote from: Bob Gaines on December 13, 2020, 11:21:15 AM
In this picture Jeff.
Yes and was comparing it to picture (in that reply) #6 thinking that possibly they were taken during the same photo shoot
Hello,
WOW, thanks for that massive replys and information
I am not the technical type and can´t give any information to you about
cable, wiring, gasket, manifolds etc.
But i found out that the INSIDE Pics showed the first GT350 ever build,
the cars was finished befor 25.01.1965
also the pics was made and posted in CAR Craft Magazin May 1965
and also on a GT350 Reprint Sales Version
the Potograph was Pat Brollier as it stands on the Petersen HP.
for this "dark painted Mustang" I only have a few guesses ...
Whenever I read about such a Mustang, I think of two pictures in this context
One appears in the backyard during the last Cobra 289 production
(https://abload.de/img/6779679118_dac424f71bgwki5.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=6779679118_dac424f71bgwki5.jpg)
the other is featured on these "Cobra Kit" advertisements
(https://abload.de/img/ff6532b071c89e27d7d24hbkk1.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=ff6532b071c89e27d7d24hbkk1.jpg)
both have that eye-catching "C" chrome trim from the fender over the door and back to the fender.
The red early production/prototype was discussed in another thread. It's from the Dave Friedman collection of pictures taken that day if I recall correctly. One of a dozen or so pictures
Fastback was missing some trim parts in the interior screws missing and such that they had not figured out or not available at the time it was loaned to Shelby
Another angle from the set
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/14/6-131220175744.jpeg)
As the possibility of it being the same car as used in the ads (Ford or Shelby) it would be much easier to confirm if the one didn't have the 1965 plate on the rear of the car. There was a likely proto type red fastback used for the Mustang sales brochure with the pinstripe and red interior also. Don't recall if one was used in the filmstrips also that year.
Quote from: J_Speegle on December 13, 2020, 05:17:36 PM
As the possibility of it being the same car as used in the ads (Ford or Shelby) it would be much easier to confirm if the one didn't have the 1965 plate on the rear of the car. There was a likely proto type red fastback used for the Mustang sales brochure with the pinstripe and red interior also. Don't recall if one was used in the filmstrips also that year.
It looks like a Ford ad, so probably no way to know for sure.
The Mustang fastback at Carter Ave was probably a test mule and not the PR car in the Ford 'Autolite" ad.
The ad / PR car could be the same car in the attached photo. (Matching '1965' license plate)
The 'C' shaped pinstriping was found on many of the '65 Mustangs, so not very special or rare (not chrome trim).
Going through some pictures today looking for other things and found a linked one of the pictures in reply #126 with another we've seen before. Posted picture is in the upper left hand corner
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/14/6-151220211545.jpeg)
Worker's even still under the car :)
Nice detective work Jeff! ;D ;D
Thank you very much,
this is a 100 % perfect match.
So we can say that the (most) inside pics from Petersen Archiv match exactly
at the same time with other inside garage pics from several sources.
i will make also some tryes for match/linkes pics
But for sure the cars in the inside pics are the very first Shelby build
(Advanced Prototypes)
in the Carter Garagae and all was finished befor 25 Januar 1965
Quote from: Szabo on December 16, 2020, 04:20:17 PM
But for sure the cars in the inside pics are the very first Shelby build
(Advanced Prototypes)
in the Carter Garage and all was finished before 25 January 1965
According to SA records (and what is in the SAAC '65 registry), the first big batch of cars started arriving on Dec 18th through the end of the month. The advanced prototypes were not all started on before other higher number cars. For instance, 021/022 were started the same day as 004/011.
The records show that 004 was finished first on 1/19/65 and the rest of the advanced prototypes, 005-014, were finished on 1/25/65. It seems a bit odd that 10 cars would be reported as all finished the same day. Maybe they were waiting on some parts to arrive or it was an oversight to keep up with when they were actually completed?
A 1965 Mustang at SAI Venice with probably more SAI TLC and 'provenance' than any of our 'SFM5' cars.
So early I would think it was most probably a FoMoCo car. But it could have been a dealer's car or a customer's car.
At this stage of research nobody knows whose car this is or where it came from (or where or went).
Over the years we've had a few+ non Shelby VIN Mustangs on here that were claimed as either special 'prototypes' prepped by SAI or SAI 'customer cars'. These claims have been routinely derisively dismissed as baloney. Now we see there was at least one.
When the nascent SAAC purloined those docs from Gardena (in what 1975-1976?) they purported in have the shipping docs detailing VINs shipped to SAI (but their circumspection over the years leads long term observers to question the depth of their findings).
Unfortunate for the owner of this car if it exists!
Quote from: camp upshur on December 17, 2020, 05:10:39 PM
A 1965 2+2 at SAI Venice with probably more SAI TLC and 'provenance' than any of our 'SFM5' cars.
Did I miss something in the pictures that suggested the dark car in the picture was a fastback rather than a coupe or an early convertible (before the braces) ?
Thank you. Corrected.
Your point is well taken: 1965 Shelby American prepared Mustangs may well include any body variant.
Thanks for the new input ...
i found another pic, little different to the first i post,
we can see the running horse from a standard Mustang better.
in no other "Group" Pic inside the garage i can see a dark paint standard mustang.
(https://abload.de/img/942487scredjuc.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=942487scredjuc.jpg)
another advertisment from FOMOCO with Shelby Parts, COBRA Valve Covers and 2-4v induction kit
(https://abload.de/img/36e0239dc54edd0e86b99cfj9k.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=36e0239dc54edd0e86b99cfj9k.jpg)
The csr in question does not have to be a prototype or Shelby project.
Hey,
after 2 years i want just to take the dust of it...
no big found but whenever i found a new Pic for Carter Ave. Building i just posted
here and save it for future ...
in a 1987 Mag called "Shelby American Cobra / Mustang Guide Hot Rod Automotive Series 1"
is a new to me Pic from the very first GT350 Pic which i doesnt know from Petersen Archive,
even they owend the Hot Rod Magazin
so i have to learned it again, there is always a little bit more to see :-D
(https://abload.de/img/1987saicobramustanggu1pj3a.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=1987saicobramustanggu1pj3a.jpg)
(https://abload.de/img/1987saicobramustangguflk1e.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=1987saicobramustangguflk1e.jpg)
Looks like the same oddly cropped picture as the one below. Not sure where mine came from but likely of the same origin. Does appear to be the area just in front of the paint booth
(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/17/6-190422175942-173011158.jpeg)
Your are absolutly right
Same Pic, and position left side between Windows and Paint Booth
the working on a Cobra is also nice to see ...
do you have any more pics ???
Greets from Germany
Stephan
I'll only be impressed if you can tell us the serial numbers of those cars. ....
Hello Rickmustang,
sorry for dont impressed you ... for me it is not possible to post the Serial Nr.
but i would do it when i can it :)
i have just fun to find a "new to me Pic" and post some pics.
;)
;)
Great pics "of the day!"