I am enjoying the Carter Avenue photo and info thread, as my GT350 5006 was built there. It is likely one of the cars in photos of the early production, although impossible to know which one.
I found a coupe of sketches in my file of the interior layout of 1042 Princeton. They were made by Shelby team driver Allen Grant in 1963. I thought they may be of interest.
Great, Bill, thanks! This helps a lot.
Can you please scan the sketches as larger files so we can read all the details?
Van
Are you kidding me .... :o
I was sitting days of hours for a Sketch and make
A walk around Tour in the inside ...
With some surprises for me...
This Skeetches are the holy grail
Please allow me to use it for the walk around Tour...
Thanks for sharing
Getting closer to finding my Princeton photos. Was able to find this article in my files, from the Los Angeles Times in 2012.
FOUND THEM!! April 18, 2012 is the date on these, from my visit to Princeton buildings.
Carroll's office is on the top right, where the address numbers are located. I have interior photos too.
More...
Let's go inside...
More inside...
And more...
More more...
Let's go upstairs...
More Carroll's office...and views out his windows...
More CS's office and views out his windows...
Quote from: Side-Oilers on June 27, 2019, 02:43:05 PM
Getting closer to finding my Princeton photos. Was able to find this article in my files, from the Los Angeles Times in 2012.
Yes, a cousin of mine is one of the partners.
Let's go outside...
In back of 1042... and the front of 1040...
Last ones...
I think this is next door, at 1040. I remember just getting to stick my head inside for a moment.
Quote from: Don Johnston on June 27, 2019, 03:08:47 PM
Quote from: Side-Oilers on June 27, 2019, 02:43:05 PM
Getting closer to finding my Princeton photos. Was able to find this article in my files, from the Los Angeles Times in 2012.
Yes, a cousin of mine is one of the partners.
Wow, interesting. I hope their plan is to keep the building intact.
Thanks a lot for your Pics !!!
Those and the skeetches are just amazing, special the Office Aera and the Stair Section
Damm i will start my Princeton Walk a round tour at this point right now
Quote from: Side-Oilers on June 27, 2019, 03:15:35 PM
Quote from: Don Johnston on June 27, 2019, 03:08:47 PM
Quote from: Side-Oilers on June 27, 2019, 02:43:05 PM
Getting closer to finding my Princeton photos. Was able to find this article in my files, from the Los Angeles Times in 2012.
Yes, a cousin of mine is one of the partners.
Wow, interesting. I hope their plan is to keep the building intact.
i just wondering why nobody take some Money and make a "Venice" Shelby Shop, nearly the Bricket Wall are
original to the time ...
The shelby Hype just high in States and this Building has so much of Shelby American History
Quote from: Bill Collins on June 27, 2019, 11:52:30 AM
I am enjoying the Carter Avenue photo and info thread, as my GT350 5006 was built there. It is likely one of the cars in photos of the early production, although impossible to know which one.
I found a coupe of sketches in my file of the interior layout of 1042 Princeton. They were made by Shelby team driver Allen Grant in 1963. I thought they may be of interest.
Bill,
I'm wondering if the location of "The Famous Three Cobras Photo" is actually at the rear of 1042 (or maybe 1040?) and not in front (as the Allen Grant sketch shows.)
Notice how the building to the right, in the Cobras photo, juts out much further than the one where the cars and CS are.
However, on the front (Princeton street) side, the building is more in line with the one to the right.
Plus, all the junk visible in the photo with the Cobras looks more like a "back of the building" thing.
Please, everyone, let me know if I'm missing something or have incorrectly deduced.
Van
It would have been interesting to have the "Original Venice Crew" rent or buy the building for their production of a revised GT350R. But I can understand that the location is no longer a remote industrial tract, but apratments and office buildings. Reving up the engines and doing testing on Princeton Drive would not be appreciated. 8)
That would indeed be cool.
Probably out of $$ reach, though, as well as what you mentioned about the neighbors not liking the sounds of revving V-8s and all those "horrible" carbon emissions.
Quote from: Side-Oilers on June 27, 2019, 03:35:48 PM
Quote from: Bill Collins on June 27, 2019, 11:52:30 AM
I am enjoying the Carter Avenue photo and info thread, as my GT350 5006 was built there. It is likely one of the cars in photos of the early production, although impossible to know which one.
I found a coupe of sketches in my file of the interior layout of 1042 Princeton. They were made by Shelby team driver Allen Grant in 1963. I thought they may be of interest.
Bill,
I'm wondering if the location of "The Famous Three Cobras Photo" is actually at the rear of 1042 (or maybe 1040?) and not in front (as the Allen Grant sketch shows.)
Notice how the building to the right, in the Cobras photo, juts out much further than the one where the cars and CS are.
However, on the front (Princeton street) side, the building is more in line with the one to the right.
Plus, all the junk visible in the photo with the Cobras looks more like a "back of the building" thing.
Please, everyone, let me know if I'm missing something or have incorrectly deduced.
Van
Yeah this Pic with the "Famous Cobra" is on the front side, at backside no Garage door !!!
Maybe you want to look at my Walk around Thread from Princeton Drive, even wich more Photos
to anaylesd.
The Cobras are just finished, when you look at other Pics from the other Point we see the Shelby Hauler
just loading these Cobras for Racing
The "Junk" is something to handle Cobras on trailer or hauler or even Race Equipment
Steve,
You are correct about the three Cobras with CS being at the front of the 1042 building.
The additional photos on your other thread helped refresh my memories.
Quote from: Side-Oilers on June 27, 2019, 03:09:19 PM
Let's go outside...
Hello Side Oiler,
thanks for your Research and these good and sharp Pics from 2012,
a few i saw befor in the Internet on some Resarch by my own, or
maybe nearly from same Position at your.
Quite surprising of the unknown inside Pics from Stairs and Office Aera...
Now with these skeetches in first post we all can see clearly through this
Building like we have X-Ray
Wow. lot's happening in this thread.
First,
Thanks to Bill Collins for posting the Alan Grant floor plans! Thank you sir!
Second,
Thanks to Van 'Side-Oilers' for the 2012 Princeton Drive photos inside and out.
I was wondering what the foyer / entrance looked like. Not much room for anything other than the steps and entrances to the work spaces.
We also get an idea of how large the back lot was fro the property with the Ford pick-up camper parked next to the building...
In the Alan Grant plans it notes Carroll Shelby's office in the back on the left (when facing the front of the building). While it is a bigger room I would have to think there were some windows in there. Grant's plans may not have been 100% accurate, as the front windows don't match what we see in the 60's photos.
The three Cobra's parked to the left of the garage doors are definitely in the front. I have no doubt about that. It's just the 1042 building was stepped back a few feet from the 1040-1038 building. They were not built parallel to the street so they have a staggered fit on the property, with more ground area on the right side.
Rich,
Thanks for the additional photos of the front of the buildings. Yes, I stand corrected on the location of the three Cobras.
At the risk of my making another mistake, I'm 99.98% certain that CS's office was on the front side of the building, where the "1042" numbers are located in my photos.
Note in the Grant sketch, that the top of that drawing is the front of the building...facing Princeton Dr...which agrees with my views.
I went up the stairs to the second floor, and that was the largest and best-view office. The offices on the back side mostly had a view of the roof of the shop. I put a couple of pix of that in my earlier photo posts.
Makes sense?
Quote from: Richstang on June 27, 2019, 04:24:59 PM
Wow. lot's happening in this thread.
First,
Thanks to Bill Collins for posting the Alan Grant floor plans! Thank you sir!
Second,
Thanks to Van 'Side-Oilers' for the 2012 Princeton Drive photos inside and out.
I was wondering what the foyer / entrance looked like. Not much room for anything other than the steps and entrances to the work spaces.
We also get an idea of how large the back lot was fro the property with the Ford pick-up camper parked next to the building...
In the Alan Grant plans it notes Carroll Shelby's office in the back on the left (when facing the front of the building). While it is a bigger room I would have to think there were some windows in there. Grant's plans may not have been 100% accurate, as the front windows don't match what we see in the 60's photos.
The three Cobra's parked to the left of the garage doors are definitely in the front. I have no doubt about that. It's just the 1042 building was stepped back a few feet from the 1040-1038 building. They were not built parallel to the street so they have a staggered fit on the property, with more ground area on the right side.
Can you remember telling me about the darker Brick Wall Section in the Carter Building ??? ;)
(i learned i little from you in just one Week or so )
Well, looking at the 1040 Princenton Drive and see exactly the same !
i think they rebuild this front section at one Point (befor Shelby American comes to Princeton)
There is even a "Mistaken" Photo Shoot from exactly this Brick Wall Frontside,
when i see it on the Data Base i will post it here...
Edith: found it.
(https://abload.de/img/6925691823_b132053f55zrkg0.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=6925691823_b132053f55zrkg0.jpg)
This thread and others of similar topic, would make a great full edition Shelby American issue or soft cover book sometime. The contributions are amazing and historically good to have while so few are left to share the fantastic details. 8)
Great idea, Don. Especially a good idea to preserve it all on paper in case Forum 2.0 goes kablooey someday.
Van
Quote from: Side-Oilers on June 27, 2019, 04:33:55 PM
Rich,
Thanks for the additional photos of the front of the buildings. Yes, I stand corrected on the location of the three Cobras.
At the risk of my making another mistake, I'm 99.98% certain that CS's office was on the front side of the building, where the "1042" numbers are located in my photos.
Note in the Grant sketch, that the top of that drawing is the front of the building...facing Princeton Dr...which agrees with my views.
I went up the stairs to the second floor, and that was the largest and best-view office. The offices on the back side mostly had a view of the roof of the shop. I put a couple of pix of that in my earlier photo posts.
Makes sense?
You were there, I'm just along for the ride looking at all these photos.
;D
I was thinking the foyer was above the reception area and Carroll's office (one of the larger rooms) was in the back left corner. I can't imagine rotating the second floor plan 180 degrees compared to the first floor.
Was there an open space / reception area when you came up the stairs with two office on each side?
Clearly the area you believe to have been Carroll's office is on the right side front corner (it would make the most sense as the best outside view of both the alley, garage door, and also a descent view across the street at the Carter building.) Lots of possibilities here. Perhaps the floor plan was not followed, or the walls were moved during that or a previous renovation.
Where was the kitchen you photographed. on the other front corner or maybe in the front center?
Such a shame, the big wigs at SAAC should buy it and make it part of Shelby History. Better hurry before Cali falls off, or worse yet becomes a sanctuary state.
Any buildings that Shelby was part of are American Automotive History....Can you imagine owning the front door glass that once was on those buildings???
Here's a few photos of the finished left side at 1040 next door.
The first two are from the front of the building looking back, while the last two are from the back center looking at the right front corner.
I wonder what they did with 1042 compared to when SA leased it?
Quote from: Szabo on June 27, 2019, 04:56:52 PM
Quote from: Richstang on June 27, 2019, 04:24:59 PM
Wow. lot's happening in this thread.
First,
Thanks to Bill Collins for posting the Alan Grant floor plans! Thank you sir!
Second,
Thanks to Van 'Side-Oilers' for the 2012 Princeton Drive photos inside and out.
I was wondering what the foyer / entrance looked like. Not much room for anything other than the steps and entrances to the work spaces.
We also get an idea of how large the back lot was fro the property with the Ford pick-up camper parked next to the building...
In the Alan Grant plans it notes Carroll Shelby's office in the back on the left (when facing the front of the building). While it is a bigger room I would have to think there were some windows in there. Grant's plans may not have been 100% accurate, as the front windows don't match what we see in the 60's photos.
The three Cobra's parked to the left of the garage doors are definitely in the front. I have no doubt about that. It's just the 1042 building was stepped back a few feet from the 1040-1038 building. They were not built parallel to the street so they have a staggered fit on the property, with more ground area on the right side.
Can you remember telling me about the darker Brick Wall Section in the Carter Building ??? ;)
(i learned i little from you in just one Week or so )
Well, looking at the 1040 Princenton Drive and see exactly the same !
i think they rebuild this front section at one Point (befor Shelby American comes to Princeton)
There is even a "Mistaken" Photo Shoot from exactly this Brick Wall Frontside,
when i see it on the Data Base i will post it here...
Edith: found it.
(https://abload.de/img/6925691823_b132053f55zrkg0.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=6925691823_b132053f55zrkg0.jpg)
Yes, it also has the same pointing / mortar style on the front of the building which appears to be a darker color brick in the color photographs.
Either it was done that way purposely to have a cleaner polished look,
or...
More towards your explanation, from a later renovation where the front façade was re-finished (Carter Avenue building) or redone to add the second floors (Princeton Drive buildings).
It seems this 1042 Princeton building was erected in 1959.
Here's a link with a few bits of interesting info.
https://www.mdrcondos.com/historic-shelby-building-sold/
Nice find of the realtor website about the property, Rich.
As for the different colored bricks on this building and Carter St...the first question I'd like to know the answer to is: Were the two buildings built/owned by the same person, originally? Legend has it that Reventlow owned Princeton (did he really?) and thus did he also own Carter St?
Those two buildings are similar enough to figure on some sort of tie-in. And, the presence of the darker-colored brick sections on what looks like an extension of the buildings is also very similar.
I posted these earlier, thinking they are of the inside the 1040 building, because I only have those two photos, and they were shot at the very end of my unofficial "tour" of the 1042 building. I seem to recall that I just stuck my head and camera inside the 1040 building and shot them. I did not go inside and look around.
Judging by the pix you just posted of 1040, the ground-floor interior seems to be very similar.
Thoughts?
Quote from: Frankie on June 27, 2019, 09:52:08 PM
Such a shame, the big wigs at SAAC should buy it and make it part of Shelby History. Better hurry before Cali falls off, or worse yet becomes a sanctuary state.
Any buildings that Shelby was part of are American Automotive History....Can you imagine owning the front door glass that once was on those buildings???
According to the agents involved, it was offered to the Shelby folks in Gardena but they declined. So what "big wigs" at SAAC should buy it? It would be a very expensive garage by now. And I am sure that the decibels of the toys going in and out of the neighborhood would set off car and building alarms throughout the 'hood. Not the best location for a museum now either, unfortunately. 8)
Dammm, I should've thought to offer the workers in the building $500 for that front door! A long list of interesting people have passed through there.
Quote from: Richstang on June 27, 2019, 09:44:18 PM
Quote from: Side-Oilers on June 27, 2019, 04:33:55 PM
Rich,
Thanks for the additional photos of the front of the buildings. Yes, I stand corrected on the location of the three Cobras.
At the risk of my making another mistake, I'm 99.98% certain that CS's office was on the front side of the building, where the "1042" numbers are located in my photos.
Note in the Grant sketch, that the top of that drawing is the front of the building...facing Princeton Dr...which agrees with my views.
I went up the stairs to the second floor, and that was the largest and best-view office. The offices on the back side mostly had a view of the roof of the shop. I put a couple of pix of that in my earlier photo posts.
Makes sense?
You were there, I'm just along for the ride looking at all these photos.
;D
I was thinking the foyer was above the reception area and Carroll's office (one of the larger rooms) was in the back left corner. I can't imagine rotating the second floor plan 180 degrees compared to the first floor.
Was there an open space / reception area when you came up the stairs with two office on each side?
Clearly the area you believe to have been Carroll's office is on the right side front corner (it would make the most sense as the best outside view of both the alley, garage door, and also a descent view across the street at the Carter building.) Lots of possibilities here. Perhaps the floor plan was not followed, or the walls were moved during that or a previous renovation.
Where was the kitchen you photographed. on the other front corner or maybe in the front center?
Rich,
I'm betting many of the interior walls had been moved/removed/moved again in the 50+ years since Shelby occupied Princeton.
I'm trying to remember what the upper level foyer looked like, right where the stairs end, but I can't recall anything. The fact that I didn't shoot a pix of the foyer, aside from the staircase from different angles, also has me surmising that the stairs just ended in a relatively small hall that went to the offices on either side of the stairway.
I hope that anyone else who has been in the building in recent years will chime in here.
As far as I recall, the kitchen was also on the front side of the upper floor. Can't remember if it was in the center or on the other corner. The bathroom was close to that too.
As always, I wish I'd taken more photos!