After some reflection, numerous notes of discontentment to the forum administration, I have decided to take a break from the forum.
Previous notes to forum adminstrators went on unanswered. Even after some people were threatened with anonymous letters.
Now we have full blown trolls running forums and deleting posts when people disagree with them. If the standard is deleting posts, because you dont like the content, its time to leave. Thats not my idea of open discussion.
Apparently, there are not enough who feel like I do, so I will leave for another venue to share my opinions. I am certain some will be fine with the decision.
I am not sure if and when I will return. I plan to keep in touch with my friends by other means.
Pete
How did we arrive here? Surely this is a huge loss.
To the forum administrators, are you going to respond.
Apparently they have become cowardly, and free speech for those of us who paid for it in blood doesn't exist. The panty waist can't handle any discourse and they either remove your response or shun you. It's why I spend little time here. There are those of us who work on them and want to learn old tricks and usually intermingle them with the new. Or you have those who have deep pockets who simply have other people do their work while looking down their nose at those who owned the cars before they became valuable.
I have owned my Shelby since I was 18. It took me years to do the restoration but I personally did all but spray the paint. Those of us who physically build them and DRIVE them are a different breed. I have a stunning vehicle but it's no trailer queen or dust collector.
I am direct, but that is the honest side of me. I am not part of the entitled or a silver spoon. I don't put up with BS and I am transparent.
I am not always right, but I try to stay informed. If you're easily offended then perhaps there are other places you should be.
It only takes a few true arseholes to ruin a great place to share knowledge. I have seen a lot changes post the crash.
If you don't like my opinion or response to another you have no business removing a well thought out response, even if it is contrary to your position.
I don't go on profanity-laced responses. That would be a different story.
What you are seeing is a response to the uppity late to the party people who bought their way into the club, not those who have been actively involved before the money was in the game. We are like the athletes of old. It's for the love of the car, not the value.
Perhaps things will improve. However I'm not holding my breath with the exodus that has been noted here.
-Keith
Quote from: Coralsnake on July 23, 2019, 06:06:42 PM
After some reflection, numerous notes of discontentment to the forum administration, I have decided to take a break from the forum.
Previous notes to forum adminstrators went on unanswered. Even after some people were threatened with anonymous letters.
Now we have full blown trolls running forums and deleting posts when people disagree with them. If the standard is deleting posts, because you dont like the content, its time to leave. Thats not my idea of open discussion.
Apparently, there are not enough who feel like I do, so I will leave for another venue to share my opinions. I am certain some will be fine with the decision.
I am not sure if and when I will return. I plan to keep in touch with my friends by other means.
Pete
Pete,
Stay, we have your back.
Bill
You will be missed.An invaluable source of info. on 68s (and I am a 67 owner).Huge loss...Hopefully you will be back after some time away..Time CAN be healing..BTW:I get it...Best wishes...
I truly hope you reconsider Pete. I am a Johnny come lately but have had a deep respect for these cars since I was a young teenager. But since I have purchased my car 3.5 years ago I have depended heavily on this forum in general and Pete specifically for advice on my 68. Pete was one of the first people I reached out to when searching the car and that was well before I knew of this forum. Pete sent me free of charge just out of his kindness and love of the hobby Fogg Motors stickers and a 90 degree bracket for mounting my console. I have reached out to Pete personally when I am looking to buy a specific item that I have questions about authenticity or appropriateness for my car and he has always responded rapidly. There are countless posts that I have submitted where I look forward to seeing Pete's response.
So this is a huge loss to me and the entire community.
Corey Bowcutt
Quote from: 1967 eight barrel on July 24, 2019, 05:10:23 AM
Apparently they have become cowardly, and free speech for those of us who paid for it in blood doesn't exist. The panty waist can't handle any discourse and they either remove your response or shun you. It's why I spend little time here. There are those of us who work on them and want to learn old tricks and usually intermingle them with the new. Or you have those who have deep pockets who simply have other people do their work while looking down their nose at those who owned the cars before they became valuable.
I have owned my Shelby since I was 18. It took me years to do the restoration but I personally did all but spray the paint. Those of us who physically build them and DRIVE them are a different breed. I have a stunning vehicle but it's no trailer queen or dust collector.
I am direct, but that is the honest side of me. I am not part of the entitled or a silver spoon. I don't put up with BS and I am transparent.
I am not always right, but I try to stay informed. If you're easily offended then perhaps there are other places you should be.
It only takes a few true arseholes to ruin a great place to share knowledge. I have seen a lot changes post the crash.
If you don't like my opinion or response to another you have no business removing a well thought out response, even if it is contrary to your position.
I don't go on profanity-laced responses. That would be a different story.
What you are seeing is a response to the uppity late to the party people who bought their way into the club, not those who have been actively involved before the money was in the game. We are like the athletes of old. It's for the love of the car, not the value.
Perhaps things will improve. However I'm not holding my breath with the exodus that has been noted here.
-Keith
Right ON Keith, I am new to this forum, although I was 17 when I bought my Shelby, (1979) I remember the likes of what this country had just gone through, and the likes were back in 2016, thank GOD it did not go that way again, I have seen posts locked up and you are right, someone sees something they don't like, like the truth and they cannot handle it! With that said, it is still a nice place to get help and information, or maybe find an honest guy who wants to sell them parts.
Its unfortunate. The forum is sliding down hill.
The definition of a troll is someone that likes to start fights on the internet.
Let's see who does that fit? Perhaps someone saying how great Corvettes are on a Shelby forum?
Or someone repeatedly posting car show information? Or a moderator deleting posts just because...
If the adult supervision has not left the room, someone needs to step up.
Pete, PM me and tell me what other forum you will be on. ( I'll keep the secret) I find your posts most informative.
I urge all here to send a message directly to Ron. I want to believe that together we can convince him to take action.
Pete and I have been going back and forth with him for days now but we are only two members.
Time to make a stand people.
Here is Ron's email ron.computerworks@gmail.com
Chris
Seems a maturing trend with enthusiast forums. Forums initiate with sharing of unique information between very experienced owners and builders. Soon grows into a valuable resource with a one of a kind knowledge base existing nowhere else. In time the forum also attracts casual fans. Typically those with a basket case they lack the resources and ambition to complete, and those having bought a restored example as a midlife, urban, status trophy. What inevitably transpires is a clash with the forums founded intent. Those with the most to offer stop participating and the forum deteriorates into jokes, family pictures, and dolts too lazy to buy a manual or use the search function. Not sure of a solution.
Pete,don't leave! I met you for the first time at SAAC 42 at Indy in the judging tent. It was great to talk to you and finally meet the keeper of "The Coral Snake" website. Your knowledge of 68 Shelby's is truly amazing and I really appreciate all that you have done and do for our club.
I'm one of the late comers, having owned my car for a mere 13 years but I know a great keeper of the flame when I see one.
Don't go Pete :(.
QSS
There's a simple solution to the problem: https://download.simplemachines.org/ (https://download.simplemachines.org/)
Pete could implement a forum on the Coralsnake site and, as the Administrator, he would control/monitor/moderate the conversation. The software that SAAC uses is free to anyone.
This is not a dig at the SAAC forum or those who run it, but in this day and age where people often "say" things behind the shield of their keyboard that they wouldn't dare say to a person's face, online conversations across all platforms too often devolve into unending kindergarten-level bickering, taunts and name-calling. I can't fix this and neither can you. All that's left to do is ignore the idiots, blowhards and provocateurs and confine our interactions with those people and entities who enlighten and improve our lives. ~Kevin
I know Pete, and respect Pete, but I do wish he would change his mind. People like him are why I participate, here. By that, I mean people who actually contribute on-topic information beneficial to our cars and events, without some separate purpose.
I happen to feel this shouldn't be a public forum, rather for members only. Will that filter some of the problems? Maybe? Will that make it easier or more effective to have some controls? Certainly. Would that make the administrator job easier? Very likely. What would be the end result? More happy members/enthusiasts while dealing with fewer problems.
It is not OK for people like Pete to leave. Wake up and make some changes, now.
"Go Team Coralsnake" i'm in big time and will be a lifetime member!
It worries me that the trolling that has been allowed to go on to the extent that valued contributors like Pete have become so frustrated that they feel that they have to leave. Nobody likes that kind of frustration. I hope that Pete reconsiders leaving and I hope that the powers to be do not let a trolling few ruin the atmosphere of preserving the Shelby Marque and the car experience as it pertains to Shelby/Ford Performance for the rest of us on this forum .
Don't be a stranger. Keep on trucking.
I'll send you a note.
Wish you well.
Feel ur pain.
ANY forum is the SUM of and QUALITY of it's members. Because this forum has become the accepted SOURCE for information regarding Shelby American vehicles it has become a 'magnet" for many . That includes my current pet peeve of OPPORTUNISTS . It is (most often) this sector that creates issues here. Baseless arguments LOADED with name calling that become a cancer to a normally strong forum have become a problem. IF left unaddressed , Pete will be the tip of the iceberg and MANY others will follow him in leaving. This of course will cause a collapse that has already been predicted by many. WE are here VOLUNTARILY for the MUTUAL BENEFIT of all. PLEASE REMEMBER THAT.
"I" urge those ( who haven't yet) that appreciate what Pete contributes to tell him "in print" to stay . We will all be better off if he does. Become a member of "The Shelby Police" and ward off those trolls that make he and others want to leave. 'DRAMA" is best left to TV.
Randy Gillis
I agree with the forum only available to active members. It will cut down on the nonsense and trolling. Keep it in the family so to speak. If you're a problem, you're out. Seems like a simple solution. Might also help the old revenue stream to the club. If you're too cheap to keep your membership, then i'm guessing what you have to say on the forum isn't constructive.
Jeff-
Pete has also kindly sent me what I was looking for awhile back at n/c. Can't let the real guys with real information go-
Pete, i'm behind you, I see the changes to. phred
Has everybody noticed how "quiet" is has become since this discussion has evolved?
That's no coincidence, shine a light and the rat scurries away.
This is and has been an administrative issue from the beginning. I wouldn't expect anything to change. That's not their stile unfortunately. It serves no purpose to leave. It will serve a purpose to stay.
I find it very sad that someone with his vast knowledge and willingness to share has decided to go silent. Although I do not have a '68 Shelby, I have always found Pete's insight priceless to those that do.
Having never met Pete, I can see through his posts, the king of person he is and the value he brings to our hobby.
It would be a shame if he truly does leave, I hope he reconsiders.
Greek
Pete...Keep in mind, if you leave "they" win. Please don't. Stick it out and let's get this mess cleaned up.
It is unfortunate it has come to this. Pete's knowledge and input to the Shelby community is invaluable and will be a discredit to this Forum to let him walk.
Stay strong Pete and don't let them get the best of you!!
There is power i the PM use it wisely. In the mean time,
SAVE PETE!
SAVE PETE!
SAVE PETE!...
Well you get the idea.
Let's get REAL
Pete leaving may be the tip of the iceberg.
But (also) of serious concern is the recent downward Slope in general. The Forum is a figment or fraction of what it once was. Just a shadow.
Many contributors left after the crash and never returned or are here merely as a ghost.
Pete is one of my best friends and I know full well what he's been through. When the people at the top don't have the back of the soldiers in the field chaos ensues. Best thing to do when that happens is peers and equals not to remain quiet. There is strength in solidarity. I more often than not get in trouble and banished for speaking out against corruption. Its no different now. Been a SAAC member for 44 years and things are heading in a downward spiral. Generally the only time things change are when people get so disgusted they act not just talk
Pete please stay the coarse. A bully never wins unless you let him!!
Chad
It's sad that it has come to this, a senior respected member of our tribe will leave for what appears to be a simple lack of decorum.
Pete is a great resource that can't be replaced.
Mike
I know (and agree) that this forum is just a shadow of what it used to be pre crash, but it's the dedication and volunteering of our regulars like Pete, Bob, Jeff, Jim, Randy, JD (and I could go on and on) that always keep me coming back. I'd like to personally thank all of them. I feel like I've completed a 'Shelby Residency' after spending the last 4 years here, but I still have tons more to learn. Where else can you go to get information like this for free? 8)
Quote from: BGlover67 on July 24, 2019, 05:46:36 PM
I know (and agree) that this forum is just a shadow of what it used to be pre crash, but it's the dedication and volunteering of our regulars like Pete, Bob, Jeff, Jim, Randy, JD (and I could go on and on) that always keep me coming back. I'd like to personally thank all of them. I feel like I've completed a 'Shelby Residency' after spending the last 4 years here, but I still have tons more to learn. Where else can you go to get information like this for free? 8)
+1
I would also thank these guys who have helped me throughout these past years with my technical and originality questions. Their help has always been greatly appreciated.
Dave
I've been here a short time, but already have learned so much from people like Bob and Pete. I would hope it continues. Thank you
Quote from: NC TRACKRAT on July 24, 2019, 01:32:45 PM
Pete...Keep in mind, if you leave "they" win. Please don't. Stick it out and let's get this mess cleaned up.
As mentioned, the forum has been on a steady decline since the crash. It doesn't help that we have some members basically treating the forum us their personal (albeit sad) Facebook page. If we don't engage or otherwise respond to their inane posts, the trolls may crawl back under the intracoastal bridges from whence they came.
Quote from: gt350hr on July 24, 2019, 01:55:33 PM
There is power i the PM use it wisely. In the mean time,
SAVE PETE!
SAVE PETE!
SAVE PETE!...
Well you get the idea.
I been a 66 Shelby owner and SAAC member for over 32years, and don't own a 68 but have enjoyed Pete's comments here and on his site. Like others I find it a total loss to lose people with the class that he has.
SAVE PETE
SAVE PETE
SAVE PETE
On the contrary. These forums serve little place without those who are actively restoring vehicles. Trailer queens are the fringe of this hobby, yet are treated mainstream.
I am an airline pilot for the largest airline in the world. I'm not lazy and I don't pay people to do what I am perfectly capable of.
You turned the issue into class warfare. Into the haves and have nots. Perhaps you have expanded on what the real issue is.
I was also a military officer. I don't have time for snotty people who think their crap doesn't stink because they have a "dust collector" on the mantle.
The collective is about enjoying them. Of course some ass here started on those that weren't official members of the SAAC and promoted denying access to the forum without membership. The behavior here of the last three or so years is explicitly the reason I am not currently an "official" paying member.
Some only help those who they feel can do something to benefit them in return. I have sent parts at no cost to some members of spares I had here and to those on the Concours forum. The individual who just left who I sent a message to because I was having rear fold down fitment issues told me to seek information from other forum members. He wasn't particularly polite about it.
Brian actually took my call and got measurements for me to figure out the issue. I would do the same if it helped someone.
The "brotherhood and camaraderie" doesn't exist anymore but between a few old timers who found a way to make a living off of the vehicles.
Perhaps there are a few too many snowflakes that melt at any discussion that doesn't fit in their box and any discourse what so ever offends them.
Tragic.
-Keith
You couldnt be farther off base
This as typical is going off base. Let's try and get back on target.
How many have messaged moderators in protest?
Closing this post topic would prove the point.
Quote from: 1967 eight barrel on July 25, 2019, 12:12:53 AM
On the contrary. These forums serve little place without those who are actively restoring vehicles. Trailer queens are the fringe of this hobby, yet are treated mainstream.
I am an airline pilot for the largest airline in the world. I'm not lazy and I don't pay people to do what I am perfectly capable of.
You turned the issue into class warfare. Into the haves and have nots. Perhaps you have expanded on what the real issue is.
I was also a military officer. I don't have time for snotty people who think their crap doesn't stink because they have a "dust collector" on the mantle.
The collective is about enjoying them. Of course some ass here started on those that weren't official members of the SAAC and promoted denying access to the forum without membership. The behavior here of the last three or so years is explicitly the reason I am not currently an "official" paying member.
Some only help those who they feel can do something to benefit them in return. I have sent parts at no cost to some members of spares I had here and to those on the Concours forum. The individual who just left who I sent a message to because I was having rear fold down fitment issues told me to seek information from other forum members. He wasn't particularly polite about it.
Brian actually took my call and got measurements for me to figure out the issue. I would do the same if it helped someone.
The "brotherhood and camaraderie" doesn't exist anymore but between a few old timers who found a way to make a living off of the vehicles.
Perhaps there are a few too many snowflakes that melt at any discussion that doesn't fit in their box and any discourse what so ever offends them.
Tragic.
-Keith
I have to agree with 8 barrel on most items here. There are a few who feel above the rest here because of their experiences, they are not... One man is not an island. With out naming names here there are a few who have the mantle piece cars and their contributions are very little other then busting someone's balls over that individuals contributions of lets say a vacation paradise and car shows. These couple of people HAD an incessant desire to push their agenda on others and constantly remind us of how nice their show cars are. This is a wonderful thing as there are very few that fit that category, I imagine that they paid someone heavily for that to happen. Most others actually build their cars, race them, show them, drive them and actually use them at least occasionally. Then we have a few newbies that come on here and start discussing MAGA and a few other things to stir the pot. Mama always said you want to start a shit storm just bring up politics and family and it will be on! We have a very small and passionate group of people here and we need to figure out how to keep them all around, PETE is not the tip of the iceberg here. There have been many passionate SHELBY LOVERS long before Pete, that have way more money, way more cars, and way more knowledge that have left for good. Charging admission to a club will guarantee that others will fall by the wayside. I understand that these people have a good feeling about buying a sticker for their cars from the club, or paying for someone to do a tune up on their cars but these few are the ones that don't know how to run a business or club or anything else. Lets keep it positive and actually learn from our mistakes. If you don't have ANYTHING positive to say keep it to yourselves.
We have been here many times before.
The fact is there is no club support for the forum. Complain all you want nothing will change. The current leadership has a stranglehold on the club and forum.
If they don't relinquish control to folks willing to make it go again, the only option is for departing members to start fresh with a new organization. When there is a new Shelby Autos Enthusiast Group started, I'll write a membership check.
SAAC and the forum are comatose and if you don't believe that you are fooling yourself.
Many have left after the crash realizing that. Pete and the other great folks here are/were trying to keep it going but are burning out.
I think their efforts and energy would be better well spend starting something new that is more of a membership based organization, promoting the cars and limited public access.
Well,I still like MY car,so there's that....Wasn't it supposed to be about "old fords"???
Well said, it is all about the cars that most love!
I bought a 67 Shelby in 1981 for 2500.00 and miss those days. Don't need the money they are worth, I like the pleasure they give!
Exactly. I don't think anyone who left after the forum crash ran out and sold their cars. ;)
What is being talked about here is the lack of an organized effort to offer enthusiasts a place to gather and share information as well as document and promote the cars.
Sure a club and a forum isn't necessary for the enjoyment of the cars, but sure helps bring folks together. More importantly in the long run may allow for the interest in these cars to continue to the next generation as well as finding new care takers when owners need to make that decision.
The future is the big picture that has to be considered otherwise SAAC, the cars and interest will slowly fade into oblivion as we are seeing happen in front of us.
Don't believe me, ask anyone who was active in Forum 1.0 compared to today.
it's very sad when a guy with the passion and knowledge (Pete) would leave the forum due to bunch of b.s.
I hope that Pete will reconsider and stay.
Also important to note that history isn't static(and never has been)..New ,more accurate information about these cars,build techniques,etc.is uncovered all the time and IMHO this forum is a key resource for disseminating this information quickly,which,personally has been very important in determining what is "right"for my car.. Any dilution of said resource quite frankly blows...... :o
Why not band together and come up with a solution for the problems that cause members to leave? Complaining is EASY , trolls do it all the time.
Quote from: 1967 eight barrel on July 25, 2019, 12:12:53 AM
I am an airline pilot for the largest airline in the world. I'm not lazy and I don't pay people to do what I am perfectly capable of.
You turned the issue into class warfare. Into the haves and have nots. Perhaps you have expanded on what the real issue is.
I was also a military officer. I don't have time for snotty people who think their crap doesn't stink because they have a "dust collector" on the mantle.
-Keith
Wow, aren't you self important.
Just like the snobs I meet at SAAC events in Rockland, Maine, Watkins Glen and Lime Rock. Time for the forum to take a flush.
We ARE being heard and things WILL change , I am confident of that . Our complaint person is not named Helen Waite so they DON'T "go to hell and wait".
Randy
Let's keep this discussion constructive and civil... de-personalize it.
All comments, peeves, criticism and suggestions are always welcome at pitcrew@saac.com
Thanks
Quote from: gt350hr on July 25, 2019, 07:52:08 PM
We ARE being heard and things WILL change , I am confident of that . Our complaint person is not named Helen Waite so they DON'T "go to hell and wait".
Randy
LOL
We really need to get the rotflmoa emoticon back.
Here is the full quote, not just a piece of it, and I like it!
"On the contrary. These forums serve little place without those who are actively restoring vehicles. Trailer queens are the fringe of this hobby, yet are treated mainstream.
I am an airline pilot for the largest airline in the world. I'm not lazy and I don't pay people to do what I am perfectly capable of.
You turned the issue into class warfare. Into the haves and have nots. Perhaps you have expanded on what the real issue is.
I was also a military officer. I don't have time for snotty people who think their crap doesn't stink because they have a "dust collector" on the mantle.
The collective is about enjoying them. Of course some ass here started on those that weren't official members of the SAAC and promoted denying access to the forum without membership. The behavior here of the last three or so years is explicitly the reason I am not currently an "official" paying member.
Some only help those who they feel can do something to benefit them in return. I have sent parts at no cost to some members of spares I had here and to those on the Concours forum. The individual who just left who I sent a message to because I was having rear fold down fitment issues told me to seek information from other forum members. He wasn't particularly polite about it.
Brian actually took my call and got measurements for me to figure out the issue. I would do the same if it helped someone.
The "brotherhood and camaraderie" doesn't exist anymore but between a few old timers who found a way to make a living off of the vehicles.
Perhaps there are a few too many snowflakes that melt at any discussion that doesn't fit in their box and any discourse what so ever offends them.
Tragic."
I have chosen to end this public discussion.
I feel the point has been made and the forum administration has responded.
Thank you to all who supported my position.
If you feel like I do, you now have options.
http://www.saacforum.com/index.php?topic=6763.msg57236;topicseen#msg57236
Lets get back to the cars
-Pete