The above mentioned GT350 being offered for sale in Columbus, Indiana. It has some suspicious things going on with the VIN and I wanted to alert other SAAC members that might be interested in the car. First of all, the Shelby tag has been removed, which is never a good thing. What the seller will not disclose is that there is no Ford VIN stamp under where the tag would be riveted, also a bad thing. In fact, there are no holes present in the apron to attach the tag into. The tag itself appears to have been "torn of" the apron at some point as both of the rivet holes are ripped at the edges. I realize that this may be simply he a replacement apron, all though it looks like its been on there a long time. I am not looking for endless debates about about what this may or may not mean in the grand scheme of things, what I am trying to do is save some people some heartache. Please draw your own conclusions and, as is the case with anything, be very careful when purchasing things of this nature. Please see the pictures that I have posted. Have a good day everyone.
This car? https://barnfinds.com/barn-find-1967-shelby-gt350-or-not/ (https://barnfinds.com/barn-find-1967-shelby-gt350-or-not/)
It was also on Facebook marketplace, but now removed.
Yes, that one.
This car is an authentic car.
The Ford number is on this car and there's a Marti Report available
Bret
Quote from: silverton_ford on August 06, 2019, 02:05:23 PM
It was also on Facebook marketplace, but now removed.
I still see the Facebook marketplace ad here:
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/632434837242633/
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/67909610_2863292573742156_2712545913582125056_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_oc=AQmzdAKq5cZ8wlHjtxJhoCrmeAzvliAflwjew6V0-Oy7lt8NIJc_PpqqUjz3i_eHJu8&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=275c79d19b16af1359bf37d0163981dc&oe=5DE6B09C)
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/67401791_2863288930409187_5981609534483857408_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_oc=AQnSpkTm9nwwfpy1TeQEABa8wn9CJdXIBLCzGHopiTvyPZ42ZxmAv7nVFC197dMxaIU&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=65cd12428e9b29608266f9b94f313475&oe=5DEB5716)
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/67793671_2863289010409179_8605224508070035456_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&_nc_oc=AQkr0h1_XlTPDML0Q6N5U5-e_IoYTItJgXageju_p5r1iKS80X4PpVONXGB_Gi7zuv0&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=6015b5e4973be1de1fcd0da3a9a5361f&oe=5DA2A602)
(https://barnfinds.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/1967-Shelby-Mustang-GT350-4-e1565021789453.jpg)
There is obviously no rivet holes for the tag I assume the apron was changed at some point?
As I said, I am not looking for endless debates about the authenticity of the car, I am simply offering up some knowledge I have about it. Do what you like with this information.
I just purchased another 67 from this seller.
The lime gold car is a Shelby and it doesn't have the holes for the tag.
The apron has been changed however the Ford VIN was shown to me on the passenger
apron.
The tag is original and the Shelby number is stamped on the apron.
There's nothing wrong with debate as long as it's constructive and fair....(IMO)
Bret
Excellent, enjoy your purchase Bret.
Hi 1968GT350,
I am confused. If you are not the seller, how or why do you have a photo of the SAI VIN plate? Do you have in your possession? Who has the SAI VIN plate to this car? Does the seller have the plate? You must have inspected the car and did the seller shared the SAI VIN plate with you? I wonder why he is not showing in the ad to help authenticate the car along with the Marti report? Still not absolute it is the same car, but it sure would help.
I like your advice "....be very careful when purchasing things of this nature." It does require the potential buyer to do their home work and due diligence.
Thank you for sharing.
Cory
Hi Cory,
I was seriously considering buying the car, that is why I have this information. The seller was not forthcoming, (to me), about the fender apron replacement. It was only after I demanded a picture of that area of the car that I got that picture and these facts that I am sharing. Obviously, as a result of a "past fender apron replacement", this fender apron does not have a Ford VIN in the area where the VIN tag would go. Also, there was no logical explanation, (to me), as to why there was a big block style shroud around the heater blower motor. I was also skeptical that the Shelby tag had been removed and I was concerned that the tag had appeared to be torn off the car at some point instead of carefully removed. If I sound like I am choosing my words carefully it is because I am doing exactly that. I am not accusing anyone of fraud, VIN tampering or re-bodying, I am simply stating the facts as I know them. Here are the facts; 1. The fender apron does not have a Ford VIN on it. 2; The car does not have the Shelby plate attached to it; 3. The Shelby tag that goes with the car appears to have been "less than carefully removed" from the car; and 4. The car has a big block heater motor shroud on it. All of these things, when considered in their totality caused me to have serious concerns about the car. This is my opinion as a potential buyer. If you are a re-seller that is going to do a little re-stamping and a little tag re-riveting this probably won't bother you. I guess my wish is that anyone who potentially buys this car knows these facts about it. Please draw your own conclusions in this matter and appreciate that someone has shared this information with the group.
1968GT350
Actually your concerns are valid
When I see a car without a tag I'm hoping for the holes to be there at least.
However, with some of the cars I've come across many owners take off the tag at some point.
In this case the owner found the tag in the glove compartment!
The Ford VIN is on the passenger side and the Shelby number is stamped there as well.
Along with the Shelby tag I reached the conclusion it was a real car.
Some of the comments of Facebook and Barn Find were just dumb.
It can't be a real Shelby because there's no tag?
If the pink slip doesn't say "Shelby" it's not one...?
I also should point out as a seller of these cars I tried to weed out buyers that obviously are doing nothing
but trying to run down my car.
I'm sure anyone that has sold a Shelby has had similar issues.
Bret
Heater motor shield on a 67 GT 350 is not out of the ordinary.
Jon
Quote from: 6s1640 on August 06, 2019, 06:21:16 PM
Hi 1968GT350,
I am confused. If you are not the seller, how or why do you have a photo of the SAI VIN plate? Do you have in your possession? Who has the SAI VIN plate to this car? Does the seller have the plate? You must have inspected the car and did the seller shared the SAI VIN plate with you? I wonder why he is not showing in the ad to help authenticate the car along with the Marti report? Still not absolute it is the same car, but it sure would help.
I like your advice "....be very careful when purchasing things of this nature." It does require the potential buyer to do their home work and due diligence.
Thank you for sharing.
Cory
Marti Report...
Awhile back I was selling a 67 and I made sure the Marti didn't show the Ford number...
However, with the allure of the internet I was asked "what I was hiding"....
Before I responded later on in the day a few internet sleuths reached the conclusion I was hiding something and
it likely wasn't a real car....
There are websites devoted to lifting your photos and starting a conversation about your car and then trying to destroy it....
Bret
Wow, that car number is really, really close to mine.
Thankfully, mine was in much better shape before I began the restoration.
And yes, mine has the heater blower motor shield as well -- a common find on GT350s.
Some of the comments of Facebook and Barn Find were just dumb.
It can't be a real Shelby because there's no tag?
If the pink slip doesn't say "Shelby" it's not one...?
[/quote]
+1 One of the most uninformed in the tread along with "its easy to tell if a car is a real Shelby" or similar comments really stood out.
As usual - this is one of the down sides of too much "information" if you can call it that. IMHO
The car and its history is a collection of facts and findings. Have no opinion of the car the thread is about nor connected to it in any known way. Just general observations.
Quote from: 1968GT350 on August 06, 2019, 07:04:00 PM
Hi Cory,
I was seriously considering buying the car, that is why I have this information. The seller was not forthcoming, (to me), about the fender apron replacement. It was only after I demanded a picture of that area of the car that I got that picture and these facts that I am sharing. Obviously, as a result of a "past fender apron replacement", this fender apron does not have a Ford VIN in the area where the VIN tag would go. Also, there was no logical explanation, (to me), as to why there was a big block style shroud around the heater blower motor. I was also skeptical that the Shelby tag had been removed and I was concerned that the tag had appeared to be torn off the car at some point instead of carefully removed. If I sound like I am choosing my words carefully it is because I am doing exactly that. I am not accusing anyone of fraud, VIN tampering or re-bodying, I am simply stating the facts as I know them. Here are the facts; 1. The fender apron does not have a Ford VIN on it. 2; The car does not have the Shelby plate attached to it; 3. The Shelby tag that goes with the car appears to have been "less than carefully removed" from the car; and 4. The car has a big block heater motor shroud on it. All of these things, when considered in their totality caused me to have serious concerns about the car. This is my opinion as a potential buyer. If you are a re-seller that is going to do a little re-stamping and a little tag re-riveting this probably won't bother you. I guess my wish is that anyone who potentially buys this car knows these facts about it. Please draw your own conclusions in this matter and appreciate that someone has shared this information with the group.
Hi 1968GT350,
You sharing information is good and appreciated. Together we are smarter. The car is what it is and the potential buyer will have to make their own determination. If what Bret says is true, it should then be easy to authenticate the car.
I understand what you said "I am not looking for endless debates....", but please recognize when you post, there will be discussion. All is good.
Take care
Cory
Right on Bret! Things you say are making good sense!
Bret is right, this is a real car. No question....I looked at this car back in January when the previous owner bought it off an older gentleman who had it from the early/mid 70s. The Shelby has the Ford VIN on the passenger side and shelby # on apron. Shelby Tag is original and was found by the previous owner in the glove box after purchase. Drivetrain is original to the car as well. The car has switched hands again to a new owner about an hour south of me that is selling it now.
If restored and the original plate was attached who would really know about the replaced inner fender?
It all come down to price...
Thanks for sharing the ad and also for posting the photos!
I think people would be shocked if they knew how many cars have had tags or numbers replaced.
They key here is disclosure, so everyone can make their own decisions.
No stitch welding on the shock towers either.
Did 67' GT 350's come fr9m the factory with engine lift hooks?
Quote from: rcgt350 on August 24, 2019, 12:18:29 PM
Did 67' GT 350's come fr9m the factory with engine lift hooks?
There are typically no engine lift hooks left on the 67 GT350 engine from the factory.
My first Shelby GT350 had the engine hooks and rear transporter hooks on the rear frame rails.I bought it off the original owner who told me it was just the way it came. He owned it from 1967 to 1980.
I had a tired old 67 GT 350 years ago...
The original engine had it's life hooks still on it.....
I am trying not to be disrespectful to anyone so please don't shoot the messenger but I have lost count of all of the previous owner 2nd hand accounts of out of the ordinary things that were supposed to be original on cars during the selling of,evaluation of or concours judging of cars. Also something found on a car by someone who isn't well versed in forensic side of dissecting the Shelby cars doesn't automatically make it confirmed evidence just anecdotal evidence at best. We don't have the provenience for the 289 hipo lift not being removed like we do for the heat shields on BB or lift hooks on BB that were supposed to be taken off according to the engineering directions. You may not have noticed but I wrote "typically" ;) to cover the possible anomaly's. None of the vintage photos of the 67 GT350 that I have ever come across or the many survivor examples over the years that I have studied supports that the lift hooks being left on typically. I also use the word "typically" because I haven't seen them all. That leaves room for the few that may have been left on by mistake. In concours judging unless you can provide reasonable proof for something extraordinary like the lift hooks on your specific car GT350 (since being on one example doesn't mean it was right for all cars in this instance) then there would be a deduction. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof/evidence.
i looked at this car and it is the real deal shelby i just wanted a gt 500,