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SAAC HQ => Concours Talk => Topic started by: CSX 3183 on August 10, 2019, 07:15:04 PM

Title: Carb tags
Post by: CSX 3183 on August 10, 2019, 07:15:04 PM
I no longer own a Shelby, however I would like to know, since my Chemo brain won't let me remember, WHO makes concours correct carb tags for your FOMOCO Holley carb, of course after you supply the information for the tag?

Thanks in advance
Title: Re: Carb tags
Post by: Coralsnake on August 10, 2019, 07:33:57 PM
I dont think I have ever seen anyone match the font properly

Kevin Marti does make carb tags
Title: Re: Carb tags
Post by: Bob Gaines on August 10, 2019, 08:53:56 PM
I dont think I have ever seen anyone match the font properly

Kevin Marti does make carb tags
+1 . Autolite is always different when compared to a genuine.
Title: Re: Carb tags
Post by: greekz on August 10, 2019, 09:12:21 PM
Does some have a picture of a correct tag they can post?  I do not think I have ever seen a correct tag.

Greek
Title: Re: Carb tags
Post by: J_Speegle on August 10, 2019, 09:32:19 PM
Does some have a picture of a correct tag they can post?  I do not think I have ever seen a correct tag.

Greek

Any thing specific so that we can post a related or one just like what your looking for?
Title: Re: Carb tags
Post by: greekz on August 10, 2019, 09:33:57 PM
1966 and 1967 GT-350 with a 715 Holley.
Title: Re: Carb tags
Post by: J_Speegle on August 10, 2019, 10:28:38 PM
1966 and 1967 GT-350 with a 715 Holley.

Sorry no pictures of those two. Don't recall ever seeing one on one of those carbs and looking at period pictures they seem to be lacking them also.  Have seen one or more owners make one (a carb tag) in the past.


66 magazine shot. All the typical tag locations have no tag attached

(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/12/6-100819221727.jpeg)



67 GT500 were attached at the top choke bracket attachment point
Title: Re: Carb tags
Post by: Bob Gaines on August 11, 2019, 12:43:12 AM
1966 and 1967 GT-350 with a 715 Holley.
That would be a good trick given they didn't get a tag typically.
Title: Re: Carb tags
Post by: 6s1640 on August 11, 2019, 02:10:36 AM
Below is a image of a FoMoCo Holley Carb Tag for your reference.  These are from a period high rise 1966 dual quad set up, Holley LIST 3360 and 3361.

I have never seen or heard of a carb tag for the Holley LIST 3259.

Hope that helps.

Cory
Title: Re: Carb tags
Post by: Dan Case on August 11, 2019, 07:59:04 AM
I no longer own a Shelby, however I would like to know, since my Chemo brain won't let me remember, WHO makes concours correct carb tags for your FOMOCO Holley carb, of course after you supply the information for the tag?

Thanks in advance

I will make a suggestion.

I recommend that you find or take a good close up picture of an original tag or tags and include that information with your correspondence to exactly illustrate what you would like to replicate. A friend ordered a tag just by model year and assembly number and what arrived was not satisfactory with the shape of tag physically incorrect and it was stamped AUTOLITE® when originals for his car type were stamped FoMoCo®.
Title: Re: Carb tags
Post by: Dan Case on August 11, 2019, 08:04:58 AM
I agree with posts 6 and 7 as I have never found a factory installed tag on any of the Holley® "R-3259" family of carburetors between the prototypes in 1964 to the last 'assembly line' ones for the 1967 model year. I have been working on them since the 1970s for myself and others and I have handled way too many unrestored dirty old assemblies to remember. No assembly tags.
Title: Re: Carb tags
Post by: roddster on August 12, 2019, 07:02:46 PM
  I can add a little to this.  When I had Pony Carbs rebuild mine (for #0036) back around 2002, it came back with a carb tag.  I didn't send it in with one.  I always thought I lost it...somewhere.  Now I know that I didn't.
Title: Re: Carb tags
Post by: greekz on August 13, 2019, 09:09:36 PM
1966 and 1967 GT-350 with a 715 Holley.
That would be a good trick given they didn't get a tag typically.

That is good to know.  Thanks for the clarification.
Title: Re: Carb tags
Post by: Brant on October 15, 2019, 04:24:29 PM
Here is a tag on a List 3259 Holley carb from a very late production 1966 GT350. It appears that it is the original carb to this particular car.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Iu-9zu6TDDECPQGktzi2r7rVbHY2ogtwpF670ZAKRAbR1rGRo9SrxOsDcIcUeSgN7gneTcRDbAmZkn_R0LhcAGoQgiMNS_OkAKNMN5JqDZEBifQ5U_2P8es4adMIgxQ2BNLKa18uztsIXpMR8b0tt9OXas6wlNFDcooK94QL0p1EoRRQ69NoBE2hbKKPa9PdpTuywq3A1-4JmsaIokUoiGTFTYptLnwCX8lb8c3vW11S_ZecG8s2U7jmWZ8tFLsQNh2VldepJ0i6dKuHJ753CI7lsyEWCkDoqC7JADVKEbmA_GPYkx8o27iQE87F9JIs59cnYG2p0gqz6xOcmJmVEGiyXaPdH6YM-hKJi3fw-WAgbkBMi2MqDSGBQ_R1AUm6Oq_E6YoJ6esmNgik-q6EQIcx6vJ63oNBatWzsE-XvjzkiK-dSa9cDv8V_FIFM1Bx9k1Tl6W4qJRGvkYZtZwHnm8sEOmGM2xhMcaTs2uaaa_qBRpX98bBDNBxtVEJIxGMo9HRQMvhwhN_MAxfcAu7Q0asGlj-DZEe16iazNSRIqcbstnLgRwabROuz2nypsRTmFsNZD40Zss7ytCjnSFmmCVpVDL-jiNnEwcE2ammQ3bmeJhATUaPk080KzLfnjFil5w67vul8F2rZGe8mU4LKr86Uztkg7KL-KQ_zZPCgDwLG7I0cc26iVAIFVXVU9tqCsRYZO4z-fFiFp58VyLD2CGvfg-qOXkzf-AWsKHrSRX4y9Du=w990-h708-no)
Title: Re: Carb tags
Post by: Dan Case on October 15, 2019, 05:34:45 PM
Here is a tag on a List 3259 Holley carb from a very late production 1966 GT350. It appears that it is the original carb to this particular car.


Brant,
R-3259, R-3259A, R-3259AAS, R-3259-1A, and R-3259-1AAS engineering versions wise, I have studied unrestored 1964 prototypes to 1967 ones installed by FAV® on some new GT40 road cars. I have studied unmolested and new old stock ones too many to add up. I have been looking literally since the cars were new. I have never seen a factory installed assembly tag on any of them.

To me the tag in your picture is a totally fake tag. I won't go into all the fine details to help fakers get better but some years ago I ordered a reproduction tag for a Ford 4100A carburetor from a well known company. The tag was not accurately done.  It had the same odd details as the one you have pictured.  I complained and I was told something like 'that is what I provide, take it or leave it'.

Dan
Title: Re: Carb tags
Post by: Special Ed on October 15, 2019, 08:29:20 PM
Look at the P in trademark circle instead of R  have seen that done on restamped shocks you have the look but not get in trademark R circle copy problems but with P in trademark circle u have no Problems haha
Title: Re: Carb tags
Post by: Dan Case on October 15, 2019, 08:48:21 PM
Look at the P in trademark circle instead of R  have seen that done on restamped shocks you have the look but not get in trademark R circle copy problems but with P in trademark circle u have no Problems haha

+1 That is the big detail but there are other clues. Reproduction tags are starting to show up on all types of Ford and Holley carburetors. On some HP289 application carburetors original assembly tags can be the most valuable piece of a core as so many were lost over the decades.
Title: Re: Carb tags
Post by: gt350hr on October 16, 2019, 10:48:11 AM
+2 Fake tag for sure . Like Ed noted , look at the circle R , it's a "P" , not an R for registered trademark. This would NOT fly at Ford . Just like the Shelby America vin tags. There is a guy in Fla that has nice repop FoMoCo tags for sale. I've bought a few.
   Like Dan and others I have never seen a legit S1MS or S2MS carb tag in all the years I have been doing this. The carburetor was initially supplied to SAI not Ford and the tag was a Ford deal only. It is my opinion that the lack of a call out for a tag continued on after Ford put the parts into their system after '67. Ford Parts and Service Division didn't have SAI parts until AFTER SAI ( LAX) closed.
   Cory ,
       Your tags for the 3360-3361 are a bit different than the more common FoMoCo tag. They are genuine for sure , no doubt. One of my three has a tag like that and the other two are the more common style without the "boxed" areas around the numbers.
     Randy
Title: Re: Carb tags
Post by: Blackcar on October 16, 2019, 11:30:11 AM
Does anyone recognize a tag like this ?
Title: Re: Carb tags
Post by: gt350hr on October 16, 2019, 12:06:26 PM
   Yes. Often found on carbs of that part number . Green color is correct.
Title: Re: Carb tags
Post by: Dan Case on October 16, 2019, 06:30:40 PM
   Yes. Often found on carbs of that part number . Green color is correct.

+1, except not under that screw for an assembly with an automatic choke. I would expect under the top left choke screw. You can see an old fold line in your tag pictured.
 

(http://www.clubcobra.com/photopost/data/3253/P1050950_-_Copy.JPG)

If the carburetor is from something like this example (secondary carburetor CSX31xx 427 Cobra) without a choke the tag normally went here.

(http://www.clubcobra.com/photopost/data/3253/New_CSX31xx_take_off_R-2805_5_-_Copy.JPG)

Preservation Tip: The spiral lock washers on Ford and Holley screws really chew up the mounting holes in assembly tags. I found some very thin small outer diameter flat washers to use with the factory screws to prevent adding any more damage to original tags. 
Title: Re: Carb tags
Post by: Blackcar on October 16, 2019, 10:35:21 PM
   Yes. Often found on carbs of that part number . Green color is correct.
When was the end of the use of the green tags ?
Title: Re: Carb tags
Post by: gt350hr on October 17, 2019, 10:44:47 AM
   That is a difficult question as not "all" of the tags those years were green! I haven't found a reason for the green tags. Others were brass , and in later years they were anodized various colors , mainly redish purple and blue. There "had" to be a reason behind it , I simply haven't found the answer.
  Randy
Title: Re: Carb tags
Post by: Dan Case on October 17, 2019, 11:04:20 AM
   Yes. Often found on carbs of that part number . Green color is correct.
When was the end of the use of the green tags ?

I have no idea. The latest one I have a picture of is from a low mile unrestored original owner 1967 427 Cobra dated 1966 April 2nd Week.
Title: Re: Carb tags
Post by: Dan Case on October 17, 2019, 11:14:16 AM
   That is a difficult question as not "all" of the tags those years were green! I haven't found a reason for the green tags. Others were brass , and in later years they were anodized various colors , mainly redish purple and blue. There "had" to be a reason behind it , I simply haven't found the answer.
  Randy

+1 Also just for fun, after mid summer 1962 (Ford purchase the AUTOLITE® brand name in mid 1962) a service assembly might have a tag with an "AUTOLITE"® logo.  There is a service unit for a certain FE engine package or HP260 powered Cobra offered on eBay® currently made in 1962 with an Autolite tag. If had been a FoMoCo® tag I would have purchased it.

(http://www.clubcobra.com/photopost/data/3253/s-l1600_-_Copy.jpg)


My theory on the brass tags it that they helped identify service assemblies.

Dan
Title: Re: Carb tags
Post by: gt350hr on October 17, 2019, 04:03:06 PM
 That Autolite tag is darned rare! I have a note on the reason for the brass tag but I  haven't found it so



i didn't offer my information regarding it. When I rediscover where I have it , I'll post the info.
  Randy
Title: Re: Carb tags
Post by: Bigfoot on October 17, 2019, 04:56:20 PM
That green tag looks familiar. I believe when I had that set of BJ BK carbs about 8 years ago the one tag which was intact was green.
Title: Re: Carb tags
Post by: Bob Gaines on October 17, 2019, 05:01:01 PM
That green tag looks familiar. I believe when I had that set of BJ BK carbs about 8 years ago the one tag which was intact was green.
I have seen the green tags on the BJ and BK carbs numerous times however the carbs/tags that I have seen were dated typically earlier then what would be expected on 67 production.
Title: Re: Carb tags
Post by: Dan Case on October 17, 2019, 06:16:15 PM
That Autolite tag is darned rare!  Randy

I have seen a few on service replacement carburetors made before production tags started using the AUTOLITE® brand name all on the tags.  This is by date the earliest one I have come across.

Ford bought the brand name in mid 1962. The Ford 4100 family of carburetors started in the mid 1950s. 
Title: Re: Carb tags
Post by: gt350hr on October 18, 2019, 12:53:28 PM
  +1 Bob . Natural aluminum finish on late 66-67 BJ -BK carbs. "I" haven't seen a green tag on a carb after '65 ( date stamp). The stamping font differs from a Holley to an Autolite (until '69) in case no one noticed. Another reason why the S2MS tag is a fake.
Title: Re: Carb tags
Post by: Dan Case on October 18, 2019, 01:08:02 PM
  +1 Bob . Natural aluminum finish on late 66-67 BJ -BK carbs. "I" haven't seen a green tag on a carb after '65 ( date stamp). The stamping font differs from a Holley to an Autolite (until '69) in case no one noticed. Another reason why the S2MS tag is a fake.

I don't know if it applies to green painted versus bare aluminum tags or not but looking through 1960s Holley® specification documents they normally made significant changes every calendar year in time to get covered by the June printing of latest updates.  So, 1967 427 Cobra with a 1966 April 2nd week green tag, anybody got a picture of a green tag dated after that or a bright aluminum tag in the May through July 1966 time frame?
Title: Re: Carb tags
Post by: Bigfoot on October 18, 2019, 09:46:52 PM
That green tag looks familiar. I believe when I had that set of BJ BK carbs about 8 years ago the one tag which was intact was green.
I have seen the green tags on the BJ and BK carbs numerous times however the carbs/tags that I have seen were dated typically earlier then what would be expected on 67 production.

I will try to find and attach image
Title: Re: Carb tags
Post by: Bigfoot on October 18, 2019, 09:50:15 PM
It’s a September 64