Hey all, would any of you be so kind as to share any pics of the trunk mounted reverse post autolite battery. If I remember right the correct one was a tar top but I cant remember and not sure what was the service replacement for that battery.
Thanks in advance.
Quote from: Jbarela on October 14, 2019, 11:56:38 PM
Hey all, would any of you be so kind as to share any pics of the trunk mounted reverse post autolite battery. If I remember right the correct one was a tar top but I cant remember and not sure what was the service replacement for that battery.
Thanks in advance.
It was not a tar top. The battery used was one I believe Shelby got a deal on and made a bulk order of Prestolite (according to invoice) or Autolite. Prestolite became Autolite. The batteries were a larger size like the group 24 which were needed for the long cable run to the trunk mount. I believe it was a Mopar application given the reverse post . The special Cobra vent cap assemblies were designed to be used with the special push on battery caps used on Prestolite and Autolite batteries of the era. The push on caps were enclosed in the snap together Cobra marked vented cap assembly. The vent cap assembly was to send the noxious and corrosive fumes to the outside of the car. The Cobra vented cap assembly was designed for the reverse post battery (reverse from regular Mustang battery) only given the vent tube orientation which keeps the caps from being used on a regular Mustang battery post orientation. The posts are in the way on a regular post Mustang battery. Cobra Automotive has made a reproduction of the Cobra vent cap that although is not exact is a very nice looking similar reproduction. Because of demand Cobra Automotive has made caps that will work with reverse post battery and also Cobra vent cap assemblies that will work with regular Mustang Post orientation. The problem is that the push on original and repro cap assemblies will not fit properly in the screw in openings of most vintage or modern batteries.
awsome info bob!! thanks!!! I tried searches on the web for pictures of this battery but could not find any, I am hoping someone has some good pics of what this reverse post battery looked like.
Quote from: Jbarela on October 15, 2019, 04:07:44 AM
awsome info bob!! thanks!!! I tried searches on the web for pictures of this battery but could not find any, I am hoping someone has some good pics of what this reverse post battery looked like.
Good luck with that.
If you are going for period correct, better buy a ground cable from Marti now, wind it up on a piece of 1" copper pipe real tight, zip tie it and stash it for two years. You will have a perfect pigtail ground cable.
For a factory photo, see Colin Comer's book, "The Complete Book of Shelby Automobiles, p.109. It shows what appears to be a yellow-top battery, assuming it to be a 24F since the POS terminal is right under the trunk hinge. The NEG ground wire is not in a spiral-wound pigtail. Also, in Colin's book, "Shelby Mustang 50 Years", there's a re-print of MotorTrend's review in the May 1965 issue and on p.27 of the book, it shows a pic of another trunk with a yellow top 24F battery and this time, the NEG cable IS a pigtail. Both batteries appear to be AUTOLITE.
Do we agree that is should be....?
Quote from: NC TRACKRAT on October 15, 2019, 03:35:26 PM
For a factory photo, see Colin Comer's book, "The Complete Book of Shelby Automobiles, p.109. It shows what appears to be a yellow-top battery, assuming it to be a 24F since the POS terminal is right under the trunk hinge. The NEG ground wire is not in a spiral-wound pigtail. Also, in Colin's book, "Shelby Mustang 50 Years", there's a re-print of MotorTrend's review in the May 1965 issue and on p.27 of the book, it shows a pic of another trunk with a yellow top 24F battery and this time, the NEG cable IS a pigtail. Both batteries appear to be AUTOLITE.
I suppose you are not aware that the earliest cars got a Ford assemblyline battery typically 24 F with yellow caps. There are pictures of that car. That is not a regular production car and so it is not prudent to expect all of the same things that are on that car to be on a regular production car. Yes the spiral wrapped negative cable was typical on later rear battery cars so that the regular long Mustang cable could be reused in the trunk where the length did not need to be so long. The spiral took up the slack. The smaller assemblyine 22 F battery that came with the cars as they arrived at SA from SJ was not up to the task given the long cable run to the trunk. A 24 F Mustang battery was substituted for a short period of time. There was more then one type of battery used ;) in 65 production . At least 3 different types were used in 65 production. You must be unfamiliar with rear battery GT350's otherwise you would know that the regular Mustang battery positive post does not align with the trunk hinge. In the case of the regular Mustang positive post it is on the outboard side of the trunk hinge. The reverse post battery sets on the inboard side of the trunk hinge . Both of the different styles of battery positive posts are the same distance from the trunk hinge just opposite each other. That trunk hinge urban legend I suppose evolved to explain the need for a reverse post battery. The people that made up that false fact didn't take into consideration the business side of things. Shelby was trying to save money with the bulk purchase at a most likely highly discounted price given the odd ball Mopar application and the obsolete style of battery case they were. The reverse post batteries that were used later on in the rear battery cars was a earlier Prestolite/Autolite style case version that was most likely already obsolete when they were purchased given the style of battery caps which is why I speculate it was a money issue . The odd ball Mopar battery version instead of a regular Mustang version battery also supports that theory. The vent cap assemblies were developed at the same time specifically for those reverse post batteries given the amount of batteries purchased most likely .
Bob-
Thank you for your learned and informative dissertation on rear mounted batteries in 1965 GT350's. We can always count on you to wax eloquent with your vast knowledge about these vehicles. I'm somewhat perplexed as to why you imply that I don't know what I'm talking about. I'm just responding to the OP's request for pics. For what it's worth, I do know that the POS terminal is exactly in line and under the rear hinge on 5S071 which has been in my possession for some 25 years. You will recall, no doubt, that the earlier cars did not have the bracket for the spare tire hold-down, hence the ability to position the battery tray slightly inboard. I did not state that it rendered any safety issue or interference.
Quote from: NC TRACKRAT on October 15, 2019, 10:06:57 PM
Bob-
Thank you for your learned and informative dissertation on rear mounted batteries in 1965 GT350's. We can always count on you to wax eloquent with your vast knowledge about these vehicles. I'm somewhat perplexed as to why you imply that I don't know what I'm talking about. I'm just responding to the OP's request for pics. For what it's worth, I do know that the POS terminal is exactly in line and under the rear hinge on 5S071 which has been in my possession for some 25 years. You will recall, no doubt, that the earlier cars did not have the bracket for the spare tire hold-down, hence the ability to position the battery tray slightly inboard. I did not state that it rendered any safety issue or interference.
The OP was requesting pictures of the reverse post battery not the regular Mustang post battery that you referred to in your example. I was trying to stay on subject. Given the subject and your example I didn't think you were aware of the variations. I apologize if I offended.
Here is a picture of an original battery for a 65 Shelby. Please remember that some of the cars had Cobra battery vent caps.
Texas Swede
Quote from: texas swede on October 15, 2019, 10:27:51 PM
Here is a picture of an original battery for a 65 Shelby. Please remember that some of the cars had Cobra battery vent caps.
Texas Swede
Great pic, from the orientation of the pic is the pos post on the right or left.
Guess I dont know how to quote correctly. Tex..where is the pos post in that pic right or left side? And thanks so much for that pic, that was exactly what I was looking for, but I ended up getting a lot of great info!!
This is a reversed post battery, i.e. Chevy type. As Bob said it's called PB11 (Prestolite). Howard told me many years ago
that they found an invoice for this type of battery and that his car 5S350 came with one even when his car had a front mounted
battery.
Texas Swede
So does the autolite logo on the side in the pic face the tank or quarter panel
The Auto-Lite side is located towards the tank. Please see picture of 5R104 after restoration.
Texas Swede
That's a great pic! Which leads me to a dumb question but why are the battery cables swapped. I thought the black ground cable mounted to the post close to the rear panel, and the red cable on the post towards the front of the car? Confusing to me if this is a pic of a restored car.
Since the discussion has broadened I guess I'll add this to the thread
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/12/6-161019214524.jpeg)
Quote from: texas swede on October 15, 2019, 10:27:51 PM
Here is a picture of an original battery for a 65 Shelby. Please remember that some of the cars had Cobra battery vent caps.
Texas Swede
Reply #10: To be clear this is an original battery for a Cobra street and most race from about CSX2117 through CSX2589 (1963-1966) sitting on a work bench at Shelby American. It has an all plastic case. It has two adhesive back labels on it, the small one on top (very blurred in this picture) and the large one on the long side facing the camera. The design is a carry over from a Prestolite® late 1950s model. Ford purchased the Autolite® name from Prestolite's parent company in mid summer 1962. Prestolite continued to make electrical and ignition parts for Ford at least until 1983. Many of the internal ignition distributor parts Ford used up into the 1980s were made in their plant in Decatur Alabama, including dual point breaker plates for performance Fords street and race including the ones with Torrington® radial roller bearing fitted breaker plate assemblies.
(http://www.clubcobra.com/photopost/data/3253/battery3.jpg)
Reply #17: The flat washers and wing nuts in the picture (I have seen clearer better focused ones.) Jeff posted are from the production Cobra parts department the best I can tell. They were standard for CSX2201 and later Cobras. The J-bolts are not the same as CSX2201 and later Cobras. The die cast zinc wing nut is a certain specific version of Harley-Davidson® motorcycle part. I have helped multiple early 1965 GT350 owners and or their restorers find a pair of wing nuts, they are not rare or expensive. Show car wise it is best to buy extras as the bare as cast zinc die casting darken with age and exposure to battery fumes fairly quickly. (SFM5S142 and CSX2310, both unrestored early 1980s, both used the same wing nut. CSX2310 still uses its original J-bolts and wing nuts to this day. Did all early 1965 MUSTANG GT350s use the same Cobra part? I have no idea. )
(http://www.clubcobra.com/photopost/data/500/Cobra_wing_nut.jpg)
Seems like the available hardware for the trunk-mount battery is priced pretty high. Does anybody have info on where the parts might be available for a more reasonable price. Since Carrol Shelby was a master of finding affordable parts from the Ford parts bid, I figured these weren't originally some rare or expensive items.
Quote from: mlplunkett on October 18, 2019, 07:32:40 PM
Seems like the available hardware for the trunk-mount battery is priced pretty high. Does anybody have info on where the parts might be available for a more reasonable price. Since Carrol Shelby was a master of finding affordable parts from the Ford parts bid, I figured these weren't originally some rare or expensive items.
It is all relative. There is genuine and there are varying degree's of close. It depends on your expectations to determine if something is acceptable or not.
Please note that some cars used the large Ford C5 battery hold down clamp which was also used
in 67-69. My car #275, 262, 266, 277 and probably many others used this bracket.
Texas Swede
Got a photo of that clamp?
Quote from: mlplunkett on November 02, 2019, 10:41:53 AM
Got a photo of that clamp?
look in any Mustang vendors catalog.It was standard equipment 67-69 Mustang.
The trunk mount battery ground lead in all the pictures I've seen just disappears toward the corner of the trunk. Where does it actually attach to the body? Anybody got a photo of that attachment point?
Under one of the bumper bracket mounting bolt heads.
Cheers
~Earl J
Does anyone reproduce and sell only the early battery hold down bracket? If not, does anyone have a drawing or sketch? I would like to look at the possibility to reproduce if there is interest?
Don
gt350bp
I make and sell the entire kit but will sell the bracket separate
Price?
Quote from: J_Speegle on October 16, 2019, 09:46:11 PM
Since the discussion has broadened I guess I'll add this to the thread
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/12/6-161019214524.jpeg)
mmm that's how mine is
P.S Hello Jeff
Quote from: 5s116 on December 06, 2019, 02:23:31 AM
Quote from: J_Speegle on October 16, 2019, 09:46:11 PM
Since the discussion has broadened I guess I'll add this to the thread
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/12/6-161019214524.jpeg)
mmm that's how mine is
P.S Hello Jeff
That is a picture of a 68 style battery given the sticker so not period original :) .Also it is not reverse post.
Quote from: Bob Gaines on December 06, 2019, 12:17:33 PM
That is a picture of a 68 style battery given the sticker so not period original :) .Also it is not reverse post.
I'm not so sure about that... the decal would have been a bit smaller than the print area showing on that battery. It could be an original assembly line 22F battery, which I understand was used in the trunk of some early cars.
Later '68-up style 22F (and typical service replacement for 65-67)
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=11756.0;attach=23832)
Quote from: Dan Case on October 17, 2019, 11:42:18 AM
Quote from: texas swede on October 15, 2019, 10:27:51 PM
Here is a picture of an original battery for a 65 Shelby. Please remember that some of the cars had Cobra battery vent caps.
Texas Swede
Reply #10: To be clear this is an original battery for a Cobra street and most race from about CSX2117 through CSX2589 (1963-1966) sitting on a work bench at Shelby American. It has an all plastic case. It has two adhesive back labels on it, the small one on top (very blurred in this picture) and the large one on the long side facing the camera. The design is a carry over from a Prestolite® late 1950s model. Ford purchased the Autolite® name from Prestolite's parent company in mid summer 1962. Prestolite continued to make electrical and ignition parts for Ford at least until 1983. Many of the internal ignition distributor parts Ford used up into the 1980s were made in their plant in Decatur Alabama, including dual point breaker plates for performance Fords street and race including the ones with Torrington® radial roller bearing fitted breaker plate assemblies.
(http://www.clubcobra.com/photopost/data/3253/battery3.jpg)
Reply #17: The flat washers and wing nuts in the picture (I have seen clearer better focused ones.) Jeff posted are from the production Cobra parts department the best I can tell. They were standard for CSX2201 and later Cobras. The J-bolts are not the same as CSX2201 and later Cobras. The die cast zinc wing nut is a certain specific version of Harley-Davidson® motorcycle part. I have helped multiple early 1965 GT350 owners and or their restorers find a pair of wing nuts, they are not rare or expensive. Show car wise it is best to buy extras as the bare as cast zinc die casting darken with age and exposure to battery fumes fairly quickly. (SFM5S142 and CSX2310, both unrestored early 1980s, both used the same wing nut. CSX2310 still uses its original J-bolts and wing nuts to this day. Did all early 1965 MUSTANG GT350s use the same Cobra part? I have no idea. )
(http://www.clubcobra.com/photopost/data/500/Cobra_wing_nut.jpg)
Found several outlets selling the Baldwin AF521-WN diecast wing nut for about $1.75 or less that looks correct according to the previous post. From what I can tell it's a 7/16-20 wing nut. Is that the correct size for the carriage bolts used for the battery tie down bracket? Maybe it's a 5/16"
I was able to verify that the Baldwin item was a 7/16 nut. I'm sure that's too big. How does this one look? It's a 1/4-20 that looks like a dead ringer. Did I get it right this time?
https://cimarroncycleworks.com/Harley-Battery-Box-Brake-Rod-Dimpled-Wing-Nuts-45-Solo-WL-WLA-Servicar-RL-DL-
What size positive cable was used on the trunk mount cars?
Jim,
Do you sell the grommet for the positive cable separately and what size is the center hole
and the cable. Just checked my car #275 and the grommet center hole is 5/8" diameter and the cable
1/2". Consequently the ones I have in my car is most likely not the original type.
Texas Swede
Here's a better pic of an early '65 GT350 trunk mount battery. From Car Life magazine.
Anyone see a hold-down frame with bolts and wing-nuts in that pic? I don't. ???
Quote from: NC TRACKRAT on March 17, 2020, 09:48:56 PM
Anyone see a hold-down frame with bolts and wing-nuts in that pic? I don't. ???
Maybe a work in progress car? Looks like masking paper in the trunk.
Note the 'Autolite' lettering is not painted, which matches an early San Jose assembly line 22F I had... (which is with 003 now).
Quote from: CharlesTurner on March 17, 2020, 10:57:11 PM
Quote from: NC TRACKRAT on March 17, 2020, 09:48:56 PM
Anyone see a hold-down frame with bolts and wing-nuts in that pic? I don't. ???
Maybe a work in progress car? Looks like masking paper in the trunk.
Note the 'Autolite' lettering is not painted, which matches an early San Jose assembly line 22F I had... (which is with 003 now).
I haven't typically seen the Autolite name painted on any of the unmolested assemblyline batteries I have seen had or seen over the years. I have seen some that were painted on restored cars but suspect that the owner thought it was the right thing to do.
By the way, where do the carriage bolts mount to?..any pics
Quote from: NC TRACKRAT on March 17, 2020, 09:48:56 PM
Anyone see a hold-down frame with bolts and wing-nuts in that pic? I don't. ???
Hello Stan,
I know where you're going with this. We had this conversation before on the old forum V1.0 before the crash. A good number of early cars DID NOT have the spare tire hold down bracket in the trunk mounted battery location. They used the 64 mustang/falcon slot version attached in the interior between the upper rear shock mounts.
Later trunk mounted battery cars HAD the spare tire bracket next to the rear mounted battery in addition to the one in the interior for the spare.
Also, if I may add. These cars without the bracket are also SOME of of the cars without the clips and bungee cord for the jack and wrench.
Cheers,
~Earl J
The early cars, at least the first 3 and first batch of 100, had the slide hold-down from San Jose spot welded to the trunk floor. This was removed by SA and re-located for the spare hold-down under the rear shelf. I don't remember exactly when, but Ford changed to the hook style setup, sometime around March IIRC. SA couldn't use these, so they left those in place and were able to acquire the slide brackets from Ford to continue with that configuration for the rear shelf spare.
Quote from: CharlesTurner on April 16, 2020, 10:26:37 AM
The early cars, at least the first 3 and first batch of 100, had the slide hold-down from San Jose spot welded to the trunk floor. This was removed by SA and re-located for the spare hold-down under the rear shelf. I don't remember exactly when, but Ford changed to the hook style setup, sometime around March IIRC. SA couldn't use these, so they left those in place and were able to acquire the slide brackets from Ford to continue with that configuration for the rear shelf spare.
109 has the slide which appears to be removed from the trunk floor to the rear shelf as there is no hook mount beside the battery tray.
Quote from: Greg on April 16, 2020, 12:25:38 PM
109 has the slide which appears to be removed from the trunk floor to the rear shelf as there is no hook mount beside the battery tray.
According to the registry, the 2nd big batch started arriving on 3/19/65 at SA. The first SFM was 5S114... so I would guess that starting with that car and all subsequent had the hook anchor.
109 was part of the large group received in Dec '64, so no way it could have the hook style.
Thanks for the pic..looks like I just need to drill the holes and push the bolts up from the bottom then?
Quote from: Jbarela on April 16, 2020, 01:33:00 PM
Thanks for the pic..looks like I just need to drill the holes and push the bolts up from the bottom then?
Just curious, are you working on a clone that doesn't have the holes or a real one where the trunk pan was changed?
Here is a drawing done by Buddy Belzer many years ago showing all holes from 5S235.
Texas Swede
Quote from: Greg on April 16, 2020, 02:25:44 PM
Quote from: Jbarela on April 16, 2020, 01:33:00 PM
Thanks for the pic..looks like I just need to drill the holes and push the bolts up from the bottom then?
Just curious, are you working on a clone that doesn't have the holes or a real one where the trunk pan was changed?
Well I wont call it a clone but rather a tribute car..
Tex..thanks for that pic..will have to print it and make heads and tables of it..
Quote from: Jbarela on April 16, 2020, 06:17:54 PM
Quote from: Greg on April 16, 2020, 02:25:44 PM
Quote from: Jbarela on April 16, 2020, 01:33:00 PM
Thanks for the pic..looks like I just need to drill the holes and push the bolts up from the bottom then?
Just curious, are you working on a clone that doesn't have the holes or a real one where the trunk pan was changed?
Well I wont call it a clone but rather a tribute car..
Tex..thanks for that pic..will have to print it and make heads and tables of it..
That is great, please post pictures of the car when you can.
Please note that the drawing shows 5S235 had the staggered battery hold down bracket holes
which means the car was equipped with the 65 Ford and 67-69 Mustang bracket.
Texas Swede