I am having some R model headers made and they will be as accurate as we possibly can get them. My hunch is they will be not discernible from original. We are using an original set as a pattern and have one of the top custom header manufacturers in the country doing them.
If anyone is interested please contact me as the more we have made the better the price will be. Please do not ask me at this point what they will cost as I don't know but just contact me to say that you're interested and I will get a price based on the projected number. Email me directly at Restore@TimLea.com
Hello Tim,
Are these the Belanger four into one headers? Lemme know.
Thanks,
~Earl J
p.s. Ignor that I have the pics labled as road race headers...
Aren't those the Hooker equal length headers? Those are 1-5/8" od tubes?
The Belangers would have an ID tag welded to them that say Belanger I think?
In fact I am very sure they are an earlier set of the Hooker "equal length" headers. The driver side is spot on although the passenger side looks a little strange.
Those things are VERY difficult to get installed compared to the "standard" comp headers that they make.
Hooker says they are good for a 5% hp increase over the standard BUT the tubes are too small AND the collectors are a little low where the flange is.
Phil had posted really good pictures of an original set of Belangers he has. No word on how they fit or if they make better power though?
You want 1-3/4" od tubes for the race headers especially if you went to a stroker.
I'd like to see what Tim is making.
Quote from: shelbydoug on February 27, 2018, 06:58:32 PM
Aren't those the Hooker equal length headers? Those are 1-5/8" od tubes?
The Belengers would have an ID tag welded to them that say Belenger I think?
they dont look like the ones i have / i vote hooker esp with the ground clearance issues :o
Didn't Belanger weld a little tag on all their headers with their name on them?
Earl,
Yours do appear to be Bellangers and they are different than the Doug's sourced headers Shelby used. The passenger side header is the giveaway. look at the old catalog photos and you will see what I mean.
Hooker was not "comercially" selling headers until '67 and their offering was far different looking than Doug's or Bellangers. Headers are like finger prints , every brand looks different in one way or another.
Randy,
I know the set I have are in fact Belangers. The photos I posted are the ones I have back at my home in California. I'm presently at my other house in NY. I want to have mine duplicated. One of my future projects... see you at SAAC43.
Earl
Quote from: shelbydoug on February 27, 2018, 06:58:32 PM
In fact I am very sure they are an earlier set of the Hooker "equal length" headers. The driver side is spot on although the passenger side looks a little strange.
Those things are VERY difficult to get installed compared to the "standard" comp headers that they make.
Hooker says they are good for a 5% hp increase over the standard BUT the tubes are too small AND the collectors are a little low where the flange is.
Phil had posted really good pictures of an original set of Belangers he has. No word on how they fit or if they make better power though?
I'd like to see what Tim is making.
The ones I have Fit like no header set I have ever installed they went in with 2 very small modifications 1st was dimple near the zbar , and the 2nd was I cut the collector flange off the left side and rotated it so that the flat side was down and the top did not hit the trans cross member . when you look under the car from the side the bottom of collectors is only about 3/8 of an inch below the frame rails. nice and tidy ;D
Quote from: gt350shelb on February 28, 2018, 11:56:39 AM
Quote from: shelbydoug on February 27, 2018, 06:58:32 PM
In fact I am very sure they are an earlier set of the Hooker "equal length" headers. The driver side is spot on although the passenger side looks a little strange.
Those things are VERY difficult to get installed compared to the "standard" comp headers that they make.
Hooker says they are good for a 5% hp increase over the standard BUT the tubes are too small AND the collectors are a little low where the flange is.
Phil had posted really good pictures of an original set of Belangers he has. No word on how they fit or if they make better power though?
I'd like to see what Tim is making.
The ones I have Fit like no header set I have ever installed they went in with 2 very small modifications 1st was dimple near the zbar , and the 2nd was I cut the collector flange off the left side and rotated it so that the flat side was down and the top did not hit the trans cross member . when you look under the car from the side the bottom of collectors is only about 3/8 of an inch below the frame rails. nice and tidy ;D
Those are the Belanger's? show us some pics.
What size tubes are they?
The Hookers actually fit well and the collectors could be cut and raised up. It's only the angling of them down that causes the issue.
I went back to the JBA's. They fixed the issue with #5/pitman arm and I went back with them primarily because of the bigger tubes but they do fit very well with no clearancing needed.
The collector is almost one full tube higher off the ground then the Hookers and they fit right in the notches is the crossmember. They were a bit pricey though. ;)
I wound up making my own z-bar. It was simpler that way since an original needed to be reinforced all over the place anyway.
One problem solved. Now just the 500 to angst about.
The R's didn't come with tri-y's?
Quote from: shelbydoug on February 27, 2018, 06:58:32 PM
. I'd like to see what Tim is making.
Authentic R model/drag car SA headers. Making them better isn't important. Making them accurate is
Quote from: TLea on February 28, 2018, 02:49:01 PM
Quote from: shelbydoug on February 27, 2018, 06:58:32 PM
. I'd like to see what Tim is making.
Authentic R model/drag car SA headers. Making them better isn't important. Making them accurate is
I don't know what those look like. Rich Leuchner had a factory drag car. I only saw the car once. I was never allowed to get within 20 feet of it.
Belanger R-Model Headers.... Wow, haven't seen these discussed in a long time.
As I understand, they came from SA on the last 10 or so R-Models in the final batch.
I bought an original set from Corey Lawson back at SAAC 31, that were from either 5R535 or at least in the used parts that came back from Peru.
They were rough and identical to the ones shown above.... uncanny to be honest. Have the numbers '636' stamped into the flanges.
I thought about having some duplicated with Brent Galloway as a spare for 5R534, but never materialized.
I since found an NOS set a few years later, which I believe to be a later set made in the late 60's or early 70's, but they're exact.
Story goes, they were purchased originally for a '67 Ranchero project I believe, but didn't fit properly.
So were never installed and became garage art until I spotted them on either eBay or Craigs List.
They were painted Hugger Orange so definitely flew under the radar!
Mark
These are the Belenger race headers that have been on the Shelby race prepped R-model engine (engine is from last batch of r-models 5R540) that has been in 6S2020 since the 60s.
sorry about poor photo, it is a photo of a photo on my old phone which i can't get off.
if it has not loaded here , go to cars for sale and look for 6S2020
It did not load....
this ongoing problem will deter many from this site.
http://www.saacforum.com/index.php?topic=444.0
Sounds like there are three versions of these headers? The Belangers that I saw all had Belanger id tags on them.
How many sets have you worked on Phil?
Just to be clear there are several variations made depending on which bending machine used at what time. We have several original sets here and although they are same shape there are slightly different manufacturing techniques. The headers made for SAI were predominately made by Dougs (Thorley)
I'm sure Randy can elaborate a lot more than I.
They are in process, as you can imagine its kind of a big deal as we are trying to make them exact and that requires special tooling. There were some made maybe 20 years ago and although they were decent the collectors had incorrect tube draw on collectors and flanges were incorrect shape
I should have fairly accurate pricing in a couple weeks
Quote from: 65shelby on April 15, 2018, 10:37:04 PM
Belanger R-Model Headers.... Wow, haven't seen these discussed in a long time.
As I understand, they came from SA on the last 10 or so R-Models in the final batch.
I bought an original set from Corey Lawson back at SAAC 31, that were from either 5R535 or at least in the used parts that came back from Peru.
They were rough and identical to the ones shown above.... uncanny to be honest. Have the numbers '636' stamped into the flanges.
I thought about having some duplicated with Brent Galloway as a spare for 5R534, but never materialized.
I since found an NOS set a few years later, which I believe to be a later set made in the late 60's or early 70's, but they're exact.
Story goes, they were purchased originally for a '67 Ranchero project I believe, but didn't fit properly.
So were never installed and became garage art until I spotted them on either eBay or Craigs List.
They were painted Hugger Orange so definitely flew under the radar!
Mark
Mark ,
The orange painted set was the "later" version Doug Thorley sold . They should have the D609 part number on them and the collector length is 6-8"s shorter than the originals supplied to SAI. Doug and I have been friends for nearly 50 years. Belangers could have been used on some R models and according to Doug it was Shel didn't pay his bill so Doug cut him off! Obviously he got paid eventually as Shelby sold Doug's headers into the '70s
Randy
Quote from: gt350hr on April 17, 2018, 10:48:41 AM
Mark ,
The orange painted set was the "later" version Doug Thorley sold . They should have the D609 part number on them and the collector length is 6-8"s shorter than the originals supplied to SAI. Doug and I have been friends for nearly 50 years. Belangers could have been used on some R models and according to Doug it was Shel didn't pay his bill so Doug cut him off! Obviously he got paid eventually as Shelby sold Doug's headers into the '70s
Randy
Any doubt as to my chief technical consultant is? LOL
Pete Disher?
Not me, I dont nothin about no headers
Quote from: TLea on April 17, 2018, 10:54:55 AM
Quote from: gt350hr on April 17, 2018, 10:48:41 AM
Mark ,
The orange painted set was the "later" version Doug Thorley sold . They should have the D609 part number on them and the collector length is 6-8"s shorter than the originals supplied to SAI. Doug and I have been friends for nearly 50 years. Belangers could have been used on some R models and according to Doug it was Shel didn't pay his bill so Doug cut him off! Obviously he got paid eventually as Shelby sold Doug's headers into the '70s
Randy
Any doubt as to my chief technical consultant is? LOL
Somebody's fingerprints have got to be in the orange paint somewhere? ???
Thanks Randy, that's great information!
'Ya don't know, what ya don't know......'
I do know that the supposed originals I have from Corey, silver and surface rust, are literally identical to Earl J's, and have 12" long collectors.
The Orange set, 'with someone's fingerprints.....lol', also have 12" long collectors. I'd have to get them down and look for the D609 part number.
They are also overall the same length with the same diameters, and same 3pt. collector flange. Maybe those believed to be originals, are Doug's as well??
I tried to post some pics but it said the post was full?????
I can email some pics if anyone's interested.
Thanks guys for all the great info!!
Mark
Quote from: 65shelby on April 17, 2018, 10:05:25 PM
Thanks Randy, that's great information!
'Ya don't know, what ya don't know......'
Maybe those believed to be originals, are Doug's as well??
Mark
OK. You've had them long enough. I'd appreciate them being returned now?
Header paint was available in many colors back then . Orange and blue were popular choices. I'm thinking "color change" Doug.
Quote from: gt350hr on April 18, 2018, 11:08:45 AM
Header paint was available in many colors back then . Orange and blue were popular choices. I'm thinking "color change" Doug.
::)
They're destined for a 5R105 Guardsman Blue tribute, that I'm building.
Don't think Mark Donohue would much approve of Chevy Orange Headers..... though he did race Camaro's!
They'll be ceramic coated in silver more than likely.
Had an offer to post pics for me so I'll forward those tonight, to further stir the pot on the Doug's vs. Belanger debate....
Mark
Quote from: 65shelby on April 19, 2018, 09:18:07 AM
Had an offer to post pics for me so I'll forward those tonight, to further stir the pot on the Doug's vs. Belanger debate....
Mark
Thought side by side would be a nice way to show them :)
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/10/6-190418223957.jpeg)
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/10/6-190418224019.jpeg)
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/10/6-190418224033.jpeg)
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/10/6-190418224056.jpeg)
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/10/6-190418224111.jpeg)
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/10/6-190418224124.jpeg)
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/8-200418111513.jpeg)
Posted for the very busy MrLea ;)
Now..... I see many differences.....
Tube size, tube arrangement in the collectors, slightly different configurations, etc.
A pic is worth a thousand words....
Appears what I have is later OTC Doug's versions that are both old and NOS.
These of MrLea's look spot on and original to the R-Models.
Now I'm wondering if mine will even fit.... Looks like a mock-up is in order in the Donohue car prior to any ceramic coatings!
The end result is they'll be mounted to a warmed over VIN'd '67 K-Motor with oversize 192/160 valves and an HM Solid Cam, with a set of 48 IDA Webers acquired from Jim Maxwell's 289 Cobra (with his permission of course) ;D.
It'll look good and breathe well I hope!
Thanks all for the deep dive on Belanger vs. Doug's Headers!!
Mark
Quote from: Coralsnake on April 20, 2018, 11:18:20 AM
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/8-200418111513.jpeg)
Posted for the very busy MrLea ;)
something familiar about the photo? huh
I stand educated. Thanks to all who have posted.
those look like mine ;D I will get some pictures of them on the car tommorow
There's another thing to consider here. Doug's as well as other header manufacturers were not a one-man show where one guy was sitting at one machine making headers all day long. They were constantly evolving and getting new tubing benders that were capable of doing different things. Even on the two sets of headers I have we see the weld on the number seven port as they were not able to make that bend in that direction on the machine but also one has two welds on one of the passenger side tubes because of a similar situation.
I don't think that necessarily means they were done at a different time. But very well could mean they were done on different machines at the same facility
Quote from: TLea on April 21, 2018, 11:48:25 AM
There's another thing to consider here. Doug's as well as other header manufacturers were not a one-man show where one guy was sitting at one machine making headers all day long. They were constantly evolving and getting new tubing benders that were capable of doing different things. Even on the two sets of headers I have we see the weld on the number seven port as they were not able to make that bend in that direction on the machine but also one has two welds on one of the passenger side tubes because of a similar situation.
I don't think that necessarily means they were done at a different time. But very well could mean they were done on different machines at the same facility
Just checked, yep #7 tube has the same weld.
Got photo, what to do ... what to do...LOL
I will try later to post.....
and check passenger side
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/306-220418015628.jpeg)
Not sure i could do it again, but i did it, post a frekin photo that is
Now everyone is going to run out and add the weld to theirs.
^^^^^^^ Pic
How tough is it to change plugs with these? Looks like a couple of spots are real problems?
The other thing with these equal length primaries is that in the Mustang a couple of those tubes on both sides are right up against the firewall. Do you need high heat glue on your sneakers?
Quote from: shelbydoug on April 22, 2018, 07:40:09 AM
How tough is it to change plugs with these? Looks like a couple of spots are real problems?
The other thing with these equal length primaries is that in the Mustang a couple of those tubes on both sides are right up against the firewall. Do you need high heat glue on your sneakers?
Like a lot of cars it is a bit tight to do plugs, i just modify tools to get it done. :o
I'm not affraid! '67 GT500 owner here! ;)
This is a set a friend made about 20 years ago. Planned to install them on 5s127 but have been on the wall since.
Quote from: TLea on April 17, 2018, 07:50:41 AM...The headers made for SAI were predominately made by Dougs (Thorley)
That is for the street cars. This thread started about the drag headers. Geography plays a part here too. SA drag cars were prepped by Les Ritchey who owned Performance Associates in Glendora. Bellanger was in Covina so an easy source. Gas Ronda moved to Russ Davis Ford in Covina from Downtown (LA) Motors to be near his engine builder - Les Ritchey. Les was killed in a 66 drag race at Fontana. When Bellenger closed I've heard two stories on where their jigs went. One was Hooker and the other to Mexico. I tend to think Mexico as some cheap $39 Bellenger looking headers were around in the 80s.
The "street" headers were made by Cyclone exclusively. Drag headers were supplied by Doug . There is paperwork to substantiate this. Yes Bellanger made some Cobra headers and it IS possible Doug looked at their Mustang offering before building his version BUT they are both very distinct in design to the trained eye. Tim reviewed MANY available period catalog photos AND original examples of both , before investing in having "true" reproductions made. Even the '90s S&S repops were looked at and despite having a real set to copy , there were "allowances" made that Tim's do NOT have. This header was also an upgrade fro road race cars and were original equipment on SAI built "sedan racers" ( coupes). It is a very distinct header in a side by side comparison.
Quote from: 5s127 on January 03, 2020, 11:34:43 AM
This is a set a friend made about 20 years ago. Planned to install them on 5s127 but have been on the wall since.
I got a set of those (I believe), intended to go on one of the original 67 coupes, but I diverted them to go onto 6S296. Therein I ran into some fitment problems; if they are of the same batch, I had to make a couple of dents in attempt to fit them in the 65/6 engine bay. I had mine flat black ceramic coated before installing them, so I stopped right there, and they have been garage art since >:(
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/570-030120203416.jpeg)
There are small differences in the chassis from year to year. The 66 is tighter.
Oddly enough the pitman arm fits differently from the 66 to 67 chassis. It will clear on the 66 on the #5 tube but not the 67. Not without a big crimp to the tube.
There are also varying clearance issues with the z-bar from brand to brand and year to year even from hipo to non-hi-po.
The best advice is to fit them to the car first, THEN send them for coating. Contrary to popular opinion, you do not need a 40 pound sledge hammer. A 20 oz ball peen hammer will do fine. ;D
THEN figure out what you are going to do with spark plug wires to keep them from melting, here and there? ;)
Plug wire routing was a major issue when I ran them , I remember that very well . I HAD to run the orange silicone rubber coated wires for sure. #7 or 8 needed a 90* boot. They are difficult to install and the HiPo Z bar is a must. For the time , they were the best header out there , I tried "most" of the others including the TRUE 180* firing order set made by SAI. I think Jay Cushman still has them.
Randy
my set has a mixture of straight and 90 boots to keep the electrons away from the pipes
This thread wandered around a little so I hope it's OK to ask about the R model roadrace cars. I have always thought that all the cars had the triY headers. Did some of the cars use other headers? If so, is there any significant power gain? Is there a commercially available option that would be suitable/similar for a tribute car that won't suffer the scrutiny of concurs judging?
Quote from: mlplunkett on January 08, 2020, 11:47:36 AM
This thread wandered around a little so I hope it's OK to ask about the R model roadrace cars. I have always thought that all the cars had the triY headers. Did some of the cars use other headers? If so, is there any significant power gain? Is there a commercially available option that would be suitable/similar for a tribute car that won't suffer the scrutiny of concurs judging?
I think the team cars all used the best available which at the time were the equal length type headers that produced more HP under competition conditions that SA commissioned to be designed for competition. The privateer campaigned cars that SA sold to the public given that SA would potentially be racing against didn't always have the advantages that the team cars did . ;)
+1 The Rmodels were built with triYs , no question there ( well on my part anyway) I don't have the '65 homalogation papers so I can't check to see if they were included. I do have the '66 and up papers and they were listed.
Randy
Quote from: mlplunkett on January 08, 2020, 11:47:36 AM
This thread wandered around a little so I hope it's OK to ask about the R model roadrace cars. I have always thought that all the cars had the triY headers. Did some of the cars use other headers? If so, is there any significant power gain? Is there a commercially available option that would be suitable/similar for a tribute car that won't suffer the scrutiny of concurs judging?
You might look in to Stan's Tri-Y headers. They offer street/strip and competition versions.
http://www.stans-headers.com/tri_y.htm
Quote from: mlplunkett on January 08, 2020, 11:47:36 AM
This thread wandered around a little so I hope it's OK to ask about the R model roadrace cars. I have always thought that all the cars had the triY headers. Did some of the cars use other headers? If so, is there any significant power gain? Is there a commercially available option that would be suitable/similar for a tribute car that won't suffer the scrutiny of concurs judging?
Judging /scrutiny on a tribute ?? I'm confused.
Quote from: TJinSA on January 03, 2020, 09:10:57 PM
I got a set of those (I believe), intended to go on one of the original 67 coupes, but I diverted them to go onto 6S296. Therein I ran into some fitment problems; if they are of the same batch, I had to make a couple of dents in attempt to fit them in the 65/6 engine bay. I had mine flat black ceramic coated before installing them, so I stopped right there, and they have been garage art since >:(
Yes every set of the 90's version we saw had dents (hammer massaging) from fitment issues. From 20 feet away they look OK but in addition to fit they lacked quite a few of the subtle details.
The comp headers we are doing are getting close but as is typical with these projects they have been a major investment in time and money. That is what makes great parts great and why so many reproduction parts are not. They are in final production now and we have fit a set to 2 different chassis. They are perfect.
Just meant to say that, while I'm trying to keep a high standard of originality, my standards aren't as high as most of you guys. This is an excellent forum and I'd love to be collecting info to preserve an original but I'm just not that fortunate. I want authentic appearance when I can get it and nearly authentic when I cant.
Judging /scrutiny on a tribute ?? I'm confused.
[/quote]
I can appreciate your effort. Nice to see that. Best of luck with your project.
Authentic means you have to beat them with a hammer to fit?
Quote from: shelbydoug on January 09, 2020, 03:11:12 PM
Authentic means you have to beat them with a hammer to fit?
That would be the tri ys. Almost every set of originals has the same dents in the same place. Theory is they were made before quick ratio pitman/idler were out. That's where they always seem to be dinged
Quote from: gt350hr on January 08, 2020, 01:31:22 PM
+1 The Rmodels were built with triYs , no question there ( well on my part anyway) I don't have the '65 homalogation papers so I can't check to see if they were included. I do have the '66 and up papers and they were listed.
Randy
Sorry to bring up such an old thread but I figured I should respond specifically to this. I own the original 65 homologation papers which were submitted by SAI for the 1965 GT350. Every picture present on the papers shows prototype parts and even the cars pictured are the two styling prototypes which were received by Shelby American before the initial 3 GT350s arrived at SAI.
The papers do show prototype versions of Tri-Y headers in two photographs..they are similar to the production headers but have much shorter collectors among other clear differences.
Just thought I'd throw that out there.
Vern
What's the big deal? You only need a small hammer to fit them.
They were intended as race cars not Concourse contestants. Get over it.
Actually I have had this issue with the Pitman arms on other headers. JBA's to be specific. Apparently no one noticed the difference between the clearances needed for the Shelby pitman arms and the stock needing additional clearances on those tubes?
In my case since they were not tri-y's, the #5 tube prevented the car from turning left and needed to be relocated.
I am just mentioning this here just in case someone else runs into this situation, you shouldn't be shocked?
https://historicdb.fia.com/sites/default/files/car_attachment/1601034601/homologation_form_number_191_group_gt.pdf
I never came back and posted here but I have about four sets of the R model Trans Am headers. They were also used on some of the late cobras. They are not just close they are 100% exact and perfect in every way. Contact me if interest
Quote from: TLea on January 21, 2023, 05:08:52 PM
I never came back and posted here but I have about four sets of the R model Trans Am headers. They were also used on some of the late cobras. They are not just close they are 100% exact and perfect in every way. Contact me if interest
Those were the headers that you had made, right?
I don't remember you ever posting pictures of them here? Can you or at least post the link to them? Are they 1-3/4" primaries? 2"? Equal length? Header nerds need to know? Ooops! That's me! ::)
Quote from: shelbydoug on January 22, 2023, 07:41:59 AM
Quote from: TLea on January 21, 2023, 05:08:52 PM
Those were the headers that you had made, right?
I don't remember you ever posting pictures of them here? Can you or at least post the link to them? Are they 1-3/4" primaries? 2"? Equal length? Header nerds need to know? Ooops! That's me! ::)
Yes and pictures were never posted. Regarding tube size/length please refer back to my original post saying they are exactly like the originals 100%. Not made for header nerds but made for those who are trying to restore in our model, Trans Am or cobra back to exactly the way it was
Quote from: TLea on January 22, 2023, 09:35:36 AM
Quote from: shelbydoug on January 22, 2023, 07:41:59 AM
Quote from: TLea on January 21, 2023, 05:08:52 PM
Those were the headers that you had made, right?
I don't remember you ever posting pictures of them here? Can you or at least post the link to them? Are they 1-3/4" primaries? 2"? Equal length? Header nerds need to know? Ooops! That's me! ::)
Yes and pictures were never posted. Regarding tube size/length please refer back to my original post saying they are exactly like the originals 100%. Not made for header nerds but made for those who are trying to restore in our model, Trans Am or cobra back to exactly the way it was
:(
I am sad that I do not qualify for access to that information. Bummer.
Quote from: camp upshur on January 21, 2023, 03:02:24 PM
https://historicdb.fia.com/sites/default/files/car_attachment/1601034601/homologation_form_number_191_group_gt.pdf
FYI, these are the FIA homologation forms...I have the original SCCA forms which were done considerably earlier than these. Only throwing that out there for clarification so as to not confuse the two. They do share one of the same pics of the prototype tri-ys (although mine is not a photocopy, its an original so its crystal clear and detailed) but otherwise the forms have very little in common.
Kind regards,
Vern
Considerably earlier?
This FIA submission is dated February 9, 1965.
The debut of the R model was February 14, 1965 at Green Valley.
It pre-dates the introduction of the R model as a race car.
Intent is to get usable docs available to fellow owner/enthusiasts.
Still trying to figure out what the aforementioned 'mystery headers' look like ;)
Steve A
5S339
Quote from: camp upshur on January 23, 2023, 12:38:52 AM
Still trying to figure out what the aforementioned 'mystery headers' look like ;)
Steve A
5S339
That information is proprietary...still.
Quote from: shelbydoug on January 23, 2023, 07:43:11 AM
Quote from: camp upshur on January 23, 2023, 12:38:52 AM
Still trying to figure out what the aforementioned 'mystery headers' look like ;)
Steve A
5S339
That information is proprietary...still.
They are pictured in the posted FIA papers as I said above. When I get a second I can upload a better picture.
Vern
Quote from: camp upshur on January 23, 2023, 12:38:52 AM
Considerably earlier?
This FIA submission is dated February 9, 1965.
The debut of the R model was February 14, 1965 at Green Valley.
It pre-dates the introduction of the R model as a race car.
Intent is to get usable docs available to fellow owner/enthusiasts.
Still trying to figure out what the aforementioned 'mystery headers' look like ;)
Steve A
5S339
Obviously I am a little slow here but I thought I said above that they were the same as the picture present in the FIA papers at the link above.
In terms of dates...yea, the SCCA certs are what I would call "considerably earlier" in the timeline of the GT350. The certs themselves are undated, however, they were done using a 1964 SCCA Production Category Recognition Form which with the "1964" "XXXXd" and "1965" typed above that. Further, a hand signed letter from Ray Geddes at FoMoCo tp Carroll Shelby at the 1042 address giving Ford's formalized approval of the "Cobra Mustang" program and as well as a letter from Carroll Shelby were sent with these forms to James Kaiser at the CT office of the SCCA. The letters are dated Oct 5th and 6th of 1964 respectively.
Clearer pic below of the prototype tri-ys....they are funky and cool for sure.
Kind regards,
Vern
PS- Shelby American initially wanted to put cowl induction on the new "Cobra Mustang"....just throwing that out there for any of you who are still reading ;)