Just curious about this...... If you sell your Shelby for $350,000 in CASH, what do you do to keep the IRS from taking a huge chunk of that?
Make sure you have enough expenses, such as storage and maintenance to offset any gains. Don't go crazy on storage cost.
Best of luck
Cory
You are going to tell them?
Quote from: 6s1640 on December 03, 2019, 12:24:03 PM
Make sure you have enough expenses, such as storage and maintenance to offset any gains. Don't go crazy on storage cost.
Best of luck
Cory
Unfortunately the IRS will not typically take your labor for maintenance into consideration just parts. Receipts of others working on your car are honored however.
Not a problem I will likely ever have, but also not a problem I would want to discuss on a public forum.
Quote from: mac on December 03, 2019, 01:26:11 PM
Not a problem I will likely ever have, but also not a problem I would want to discuss on a public forum.
You could discuss in the members only forum. But this is a good topic of concern to some of us.
Many people probably have not kept a lot of receipts. Ebay might be another problem with tax, because how many sellers who are real people that just put something on that has been in the house for years, say a vase, it might have been given to them or they bought it years ago, they don't have anything that say what their "cost" is, then they sell it.....does that mean the pay tax on what it sold for? Seems like a bad thing anymore to ty to get rid of something.
Quote from: gt350hr on December 03, 2019, 12:24:47 PM
You are going to tell them?
No way. Just wondering because I see them selling for big Money and just wondering what your LOSS would be due to the IRS taking their share. If it is worth $350,000 and you have no Leans on it because you owned for many Years, you decide to sell it now because the Prices are "Right", how much could the IRS take of that?
https://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc409
How much you pay depends on length of ownership. Legit expenses are deducted from the difference between what was paid and what it was sold for.
Best to consult a tax professional to understand best for your personal situation.
Quote from: tesgt350 on December 03, 2019, 11:44:03 AM
Just curious about this...... If you sell your Shelby for $350,000 in CASH, what do you do to keep the IRS from taking a huge chunk of that?
There is also a problem with that much cash. If you go to deposit more than $10,000, the receiving institution has to fill out a IRS form and they are notified of this deposit. A deposit of $350,000 will get their attention and you will get a visit from the IRS. The below quote if from a Google search:
"When do banks report deposits to IRS? Banks and credit unions are required to report a cash deposit of $10,000 or larger. In addition, if two transactions within a 12-month period seem related and their total exceeds $10,000 they must be reported."
I found this out when buying a late model car with cash.
Cory
That's only 70 $5,000 postal money orders ;) Consulting a tax professional as Charles suggested paramount. Money can be "rolled" into other "investments" to avoid "the big bite". If you deposit the money blindly , the IRS looks at it the same way as winning the lottery and eats up 40% or more. One legal way is starting a corporation , but again a tax expert should be involved. Their fees are a mere pittance to the potential the IRS "could get". I have a friend in a similar situation on the sale of a high six figure car. He paid six figures but less than what he sold it for so there is a "capital gain".
Randy
I think some of the high end dealers specialize in this sort of transaction -- if you buy another car from them:
"Most states require sales tax to be paid only on the difference between the price of your trade-in and the vehicle you're buying, not the full price of the next car. But this tax benefit doesn't apply if you sell your old vehicle yourself."
So, trade that car in to a specialty dealer, pay a bit more/less and drive out with another cool ride.
I'm no expert but this may also forestall the IRS getting involved as you didn't make any money. Perhaps. Tax attorney/specialist should be consulted.
Not sure how many people pay cash for a 6 figure car, but if they do and deposit to any financial institution there will be a report filed by that institution to the government. This only applies to cash. Wires, checks, etc do not trigger this report. If you report the sale on your 1040 the increase in value over your original cost plus expenses is considered a "capital gain" taxed at current rates of either 15 or 20% pending your tax bracket.
I was under the impression that checks over $10,000 were reported too. I could certainly be misinformed.
If Personal cars are subject to capital gains, we get to write off all the depreciation we suffer on all our other possessions, right?
::)
Strange how the govt people couldnt be found when we were restoring our cars, doing the diligent research to make them tangible assets. Only at the sale do they pop out and say gotcha, way to go buddy.
;)
Truly. The IRS always gets theirs. As a buddy of mine once said, "The IRS is an institution where it's legal to be guilty until proven innocent."
Who would think all of this just to sell a car. Its just a hobby. Really God, it is just a hobby!
Receipts,receipts,receipts. Keep EVERY one to justify the capital gains of a sale (any sale) I was happy to sell one of my cars until I was notified of the details of selling. And don't even THINK about the phony paper being sold through internet....IRS in well aware of those,and if questioned,gets really pissed about even trying to submit false records. Did you buy ANYTHING at a swap meet? Get a receipt? Haha. Expenses for travel? Yeah,right. Many of us have zero records of money spent pursuing our hobby,only a check when project is sold. No deductions unless a business-type venture. Plan very well for a $100,000 capital gains .......each person has very different situation and you MUST consult a tax expert,not HR Block part-timer or the guy on the next bar stool. IRS knows how to play the game...they wrote the rules
There is one thing you all are missing. The IRS Law was changed about three years ago, to anything over $3900.00 in cash, is now reported, put in or out taken out.
No one has even touched on the Civil Asset Forfeiture Laws and what happens if law enforcement catches you with $350K in a suitcase. Hint: they keep it all until you can prove it's legally yours. Then you might get it back. Someday. Most of it anyway.
Quote from: 427Larry on December 04, 2019, 05:33:10 AM
There is one thing you all are missing. The IRS Law was changed about three years ago, to anything over $3900.00 in cash, is now reported, put in or out taken out.
No, not changed. Still $10,000.
https://www.fincen.gov/sites/default/files/shared/CTRPamphlet.pdf
Quote from: kjspeed on December 04, 2019, 08:35:42 AM
No one has even touched on the Civil Asset Forfeiture Laws and what happens if law enforcement catches you with $350K in a suitcase. Hint: they keep it all until you can prove it's legally yours. Then you might get it back. Someday. Most of it anyway.
That's why you box it up real good and FedEx it to yourself, then when it arrives, you put it in a Safe.
Quote from: tesgt350 on December 04, 2019, 11:20:01 AM
Quote from: kjspeed on December 04, 2019, 08:35:42 AM
No one has even touched on the Civil Asset Forfeiture Laws and what happens if law enforcement catches you with $350K in a suitcase. Hint: they keep it all until you can prove it's legally yours. Then you might get it back. Someday. Most of it anyway.
That's why you box it up real good and FedEx it to yourself, then when it arrives, you put it in a Safe.
And do not use it to make big purchases.
If you think it's bad here go to Holland. I knew a guy who bought cars here and imported them. He was charged 10% of the value when he imported it. When he sold it he was charged 10% of the sale price and the buyer also got dinged for 10%. 30% on one deal went to .gov.
The $10000 only applies to cash. Nothing else.
Quote from: Hockeylife on December 04, 2019, 09:03:16 AM
Quote from: 427Larry on December 04, 2019, 05:33:10 AM
There is one thing you all are missing. The IRS Law was changed about three years ago, to anything over $3900.00 in cash, is now reported, put in or out taken out.
No, not changed. Still $10,000.
https://www.fincen.gov/sites/default/files/shared/CTRPamphlet.pdf
That may be, but that is not what my bank told me. She said they have to kept track of everything in or out on anything above $3900.00 cash, she also said I am not suppose to tell you this either.
I certainly understand trying to see how you can keep most of the "capital gains" but a friend of mine tried to "skirt" the issue and the IRS did do an audit, found it, made him pay MUCHO $$$ in fines, interest, threatened him with tax evasion/jail, attorney fee's etc.... not worth it!
Guys, just be smart, keep receipts, storage, maintenance, repairs, etc.... as some have said and pay your capital gains tax. These cars have gotten too valuable not to be seen by the IRS.
And by the way, he is on their list and he gets audited most every year now.
Quote from: Bossbill on December 03, 2019, 03:26:43 PM
I think some of the high end dealers specialize in this sort of transaction -- if you buy another car from them:
"Most states require sales tax to be paid only on the difference between the price of your trade-in and the vehicle you're buying, not the full price of the next car. But this tax benefit doesn't apply if you sell your old vehicle yourself."
So, trade that car in to a specialty dealer, pay a bit more/less and drive out with another cool ride.
I'm no expert but this may also forestall the IRS getting involved as you didn't make any money. Perhaps. Tax attorney/specialist should be consulted.
SO, what if you sell it at Auction, there is no Trade In there? Does BJ and the others take out the Tax and send it in or send in a Report on the Sell to the IRS or do they just take their cut and let it go?
As my tax expert told me....."they write the rules,they enforce the rules,they will always win. Play by their rules and all will be OK" I have a few more cars to sell in the next few years and still can not believe what % I will pay. Tax laws change very often and you NEED to consult a tax expert to plan buying or selling. Really
With all due respect... WHY would ANYONE respond publicly to this thread? 8)
Quote from: tesgt350 on December 04, 2019, 11:20:01 AM
Quote from: kjspeed on December 04, 2019, 08:35:42 AM
No one has even touched on the Civil Asset Forfeiture Laws and what happens if law enforcement catches you with $350K in a suitcase. Hint: they keep it all until you can prove it's legally yours. Then you might get it back. Someday. Most of it anyway.
That's why you box it up real good and FedEx it to yourself, then when it arrives, you put it in a Safe.
LOL, You're kidding right? So you're gonna send $350K
CASH through the mail? LOL, tell me what kind of insurance your gonna put on the box ::)
Quote from: tesgt350 on December 04, 2019, 06:52:58 PM
Quote from: Bossbill on December 03, 2019, 03:26:43 PM
I think some of the high end dealers specialize in this sort of transaction -- if you buy another car from them:
"Most states require sales tax to be paid only on the difference between the price of your trade-in and the vehicle you're buying, not the full price of the next car. But this tax benefit doesn't apply if you sell your old vehicle yourself."
So, trade that car in to a specialty dealer, pay a bit more/less and drive out with another cool ride.
I'm no expert but this may also forestall the IRS getting involved as you didn't make any money. Perhaps. Tax attorney/specialist should be consulted.
SO, what if you sell it at Auction, there is no Trade In there? Does BJ and the others tax out the Tax and send it in or send in a Report on the Sell to the IRS or do they just take their cut and let it go?
Trade in has nothing to do with "capital gains tax"- period. Trade in's within some states can reduce "sales tax", though.
Financial institutions send you, the seller of an asset within a taxable account, an IRS Form 1099-B. They also send this same form to the IRS. This form summarizes proceeds of the sale, and may also state cost basis, if known. This provides a mechanism to compare tax returns to known sales by the IRS.
Though there are no 1099's issued for car sales, you are still obligated to report and pay capital gains tax if a gain is realized.
Just keep your cars till you die, when you die your kids can revalue your estates real estate and cars to current values and then they will not pay capital gains as long as they sell them for that stated value. That's as long as your estate stays under 10 million for each husband and wife. Another words 20 million total roughly for the pair.
Quote from: tesgt350 on December 04, 2019, 06:52:58 PM
SO, what if you sell it at Auction, there is no Trade In there? Does BJ and the others tax out the Tax and send it in or send in a Report on the Sell to the IRS or do they just take their cut and let it go?
I believe only if you live in the state where the auction is that there will be tax. I sold a car at one of the Scottsdale auctions in 2006, I simply got a check in the mail, the total after house fees. It was around $60k at the time, I never reported anything. Had enough receipts to show a loss though, so I wasn't worried if the IRS started asking questions.
Investment advisory fees are no longer tax deductible
Money earned on your primary home sale is no longer an unlimited no tax payable deal
Some states no longer allow a tax exemption on the trade in of your car, Thus you pay tax on the first 10k value of the new purchase even the first 10k was paid for by your trade in
Its only going to get worse....I had no idea there is tax payable on the profit from sale of your classic as well
Just wait until they figure how to tax you for breathing... >:(
Just be careful how you vote... :)
TOB
Quote from: Shelby73 on December 04, 2019, 10:28:12 PM
Just keep your cars till you die, when you die your kids can revalue your estates real estate and cars to current values and then they will not pay capital gains as long as they sell them for that stated value. That's as long as your estate stays under 10 million for each husband and wife. Another words 20 million total roughly for the pair.
Here is where a trust comes in handy.
RE: tax at auction. I remember a few years ago AZ thought they'd go after a big chunk and tax the sales at BJ. After the lawyers got done it was set that if the car was transported out of the state for delivery to buyer no tax. If the buyer took possession in AZ they would tax the sale (I think that got changed to if it was operated on an AZ road they got the tax but not if it left on a trailer). In CA if you buy a car out of state and pay say 6% tax when you register it in CA they will charge you the difference to get to the 10% CA tax another 4%.
I've heard that Montana is a great state for classic cars.
BREAKING NEWS: Spammer makes a spam type post on an old thread, forum members then respond to posts 2+ years old. Spammers post is then deleted after being reported.
Film at 11 :o
Montana is just a good state for avoiding paying the sales tax on your purchase. There is no sales tax in Montana on most purchases, including vehicles. People start an LLC in Montana, register the car there, they may have to store it there for a year, then they can transfer the car to the state they live in and not pay the sales tax because they are just moving it from there property in Montana to the state they reside in fulltime. There are people who register their car in Montana through the LLC but don't store it there. They drive it around in their home state with Montana plates, but if your neighbor reports it you could be in trouble. Some states are cracking down on the Montana LLC program. If you've noticed collector cars with Montana plates at auctions, on TV shows, there's a good chance that's why. People do the same thing with high end motor homes as well.
Not legal advice, BUT worth talking to a tax specialist;
Selling property, you can take a trade of 1.00 more in value, and keep it on the books>> may have changed?
Selling a car, not sure if the exchange will work legally, kind of think so.
Take a trade, only an attorney can handle the money>>> worth checkking out ?
NOW FOR TAXES;
MY BUDDY FROM AUSTRALIA PASSED THIS TOO ME >>>>>>>>> ALL is true >>> enjoy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Below is Charley Reese's final column for the Orlando Sentinel... He has been a journalist for 49 years. He is retiring and this is his last column.
The article below is completely neutral, neither anti-republican nor democrat. Charlie Reese, a retired reporter for the Orlando Sentinel, has hit the nail directly on the head, defining clearly who it is that in the final analysis must assume responsibility for the judgments made that impact each one of us every day.
545 People vs. 300,000,000 People- by Charlie Reese
Politicians are the only people in the world who create problems and then campaign against them.
Have you ever wondered, if both the Democrats and the Republicans are against deficits, WHY do we have deficits?
Have you ever wondered, if all the politicians are against inflation and high taxes, WHY do we have inflation and high taxes? You and I don't propose a federal budget. The President does.
You and I don't have the Constitutional authority to vote on appropriations. The House of Representatives does!
You and I don't write the tax code. Congress does!
You and I don't set fiscal policy, Congress does!
You and I don't control monetary policy, the Federal Reserve Bank does!
One hundred senators, 435 congressmen, one President, and nine Supreme Court justices equates to 545 human beings out of the 300 million are directly, legally, morally, and individually responsible for the domestic problems that plague this country.
I excluded the members of the Federal Reserve Board because that problem was created by the Congress.
In 1913, Congress delegated its Constitutional duty to provide a sound currency to a federally chartered, but private, central bank.
I excluded all the special interests and lobbyists for a sound reason. They have no legal authority.
They have no ability to coerce a senator, a congressman, or a President to do one cotton-picking thing.
I don't care if they offer a politician $1 million dollars in cash.
The politician has the power to accept or reject it.
No matter what the lobbyist promises, it is the legislator's responsibility to determine how he votes.
Those 545 human beings spend much of their energy convincing you that what they did is not their fault.
They cooperate in this common con regardless of party.
What separates a politician from a normal human being is an excessive amount of gall.
No normal human being would have the gall of a Speaker, who stood up and criticized the President for creating deficits.
The President can only propose a budget.
He cannot force the Congress to accept it.
The Constitution, which is the supreme law of the land, gives sole responsibility to the House of Representatives for originating and approving appropriations and taxes.
Who is the speaker of the House now?
He is the leader of the majority party.
He and fellow House members, not the President, can approve any budget they want.
If the President vetoes it, they can pass it over his veto if they agree to.
It seems inconceivable to me that a nation of 300 million cannot replace 545 people who stand convicted -- by present facts -- of incompetence and irresponsibility. I can't think of a single domestic problem that is not traceable directly to those 545 people.
When you fully grasp the plain truth that 545 people exercise the power of the federal government, then it must follow that what exists is what they want to exist.
If the tax code is unfair, it's because they want it unfair.
If the budget is in the red, it's because they want it in the red.
If the Army & Marines are in Iraq, Afghanistan, or any of the 750
US military bases in 78 other countries, it's because they want them there.
If they do not receive social security but are on an elite retirement plan not available to the people, it's because they want it that way.
There are no insoluble government problems.
Do not let these 545 people shift the blame to bureaucrats, whom they hire and whose jobs they can abolish; to lobbyists, whose gifts and advice they can reject; to regulators, to whom they give the power to regulate and from whom they can take this power.
Above all, do not let them con you into the belief that there exists a disembodied mystical forces like "the economy," "inflation," or "politics" that prevent them from doing what they take an oath to do.
Those 545 people, and they alone, are responsible.
They, and they alone, have the power.
They, and they alone, should be held accountable by the people who are their bosses, provided the voters have the gumption to manage their own employees..
We should vote all of them out of office and clean up their mess!
What you do with this article now that you have read it... is up to you.
This oldpoem might be funny if it weren't so true :
Tax his land,
Tax his bed,
Tax the table, at which he's fed.
Tax his tractor,
Tax his mule,
Teach him taxes are the rule.
Tax his work,
Tax his pay, he works for peanuts anyway!
Tax his cow,
Tax his goat,
Tax his pants,
Tax his coat.
Tax his ties,
Tax his shirt,
Tax his work,
Tax his dirt.
Tax his tobacco,
Tax his drink,
Tax him if he tries to think.
Tax his cigars,
Tax his beers,
If he cries tax his tears.
Tax his car,
Tax his gas,
Find other ways to tax his ass.
Tax all he has, then let him know that you won't be done till he has no dough.
When he screams and hollerstax him some more,
Tax him till he's good and sore.
Tax his coffin,
Tax his grave,
Tax the sod into which he's laid...
Put these words upon his tomb,
"Taxes drove me to my doom.."
When he's gone, do not relax,
It's time to apply the Inheritance tax.
Accounts Receivable Tax
Building Permit Tax
CDL license Tax
Cigarette Tax
Corporate Income Tax
Dog License Tax (No cat tax yet!)
Excise Taxes
Federal Income Tax
Federal Unemployment Tax (FUTA)
Fishing License Tax
Food License Tax
Fuel Permit Tax
Gasoline Tax (currently 44.75 cents per gallon)
Gross Receipts Tax
Hunting License Tax
Inheritance Tax
Inventory Tax
IRS Interest Charges IRS Penalties (tax on top of tax)
Liquor Tax
Luxury Taxes
Marriage License Tax
Medicare Tax
Personal Property Tax
Property Tax
Real Estate Tax
Service Charge Tax
Social Security Tax
Road Usage Tax
Recreational Vehicle Tax
Sales Tax
School Tax
State Income Tax
State Unemployment Tax (SUTA)
Telephone Federal Excise Tax
Telephone Federal Universal Service Fee Tax
Telephone Federal, State and Local Surcharge Taxes
Telephone Minimum Usage Surcharge Tax
Telephone Recurring and Nonrecurring Charges Tax
Telephone State and Local Tax
Telephone Usage Charge Tax
Utility Taxes
Vehicle License Registration Tax
Vehicle Sales Tax
Watercraft Registration Tax
Well Permit Tax
Workers Compensation Tax
STILL THINK THIS IS FUNNY?
Not one of these taxes existed 100 years ago, & our nation was the most prosperous in the world.
We had absolutely no national debt, had the largest middle class in the world, and Mom, if agreed, stayed home to raise the kids.
What in the heck happened? Can you spell 'politicians?'