This is my first post here so go easy on me. After flowing up on a lead I stumbled across a 68 Shelby GT500KR over the holidays in my travels and need a little help and advice. I will give a description with the hopes that some of the more knowledgeable Shelby people can tell me what it may be worth. I have my thoughts but am just not up on these enough to know for sure and would like to make an educated decision before I pull the trigger. I was able to convince the seller to let it go but as of right now the seller and I are a LONG ways off on value. He has owned the car for 37 years.
It is a 63B 2+2 Fastback with luxury black interior.
Color is M or White
Trim is 5AA
Build date is mid year 1968
Axle is H for 3.50 Traction loc
Trans is 5 or Toploader 4 speed
The car is completely disassembled, needs quarters, doors, fenders, firewall repair at the pinch welds, outer wheel houses and some floor pan work. Torque boxes are iffy and I was really not able to get underneath the car to see how bad it was but will consider it to be like the topside of the car. For reasons unknown, the rear side marker reflectors were bondo'd closed. The Shelby VIN plate is intact and in good shape and still attached to the fender apron though the drivers side apron has been replaced so this is laying loose. On the bottom side of that apron I can make out the VIN and it matches the car.
The engine (short block) is not original and is a 66 428 A scratch mark and not the original 428CJ C scratch mark that would have come in the car. It has a complete running (as of 8 years ago) engine minus the smog. The Holley carb is correct but is a 1976 over the counter unit with all the correct Ford numbers but the date is incorrect. Intake is the correct C80OE-9428-C cast iron unit.
The transmission is original as I believe is the rear diff. It also for some odd reason has the 67 Shelby wheels on it and not the correct 68 wheels.
The original Lucas running lights are with the car.
This car will need a COMPLETE nut and bolt restoration with much of the sheet metal needing to be replaced. The interior is all there but not sure how much can be restored vs having to be replaced. The Shelby console is there but has a small dent in the vinyl from one of the interior panels laying across it and I am not sure that will come out.
The seller has given me a price but I believe it is worth about half of what he is asking or less in all seriousness which is why I am here asking. Any help based solely on my description would be much appreciated. I will not post the VIN number at this time as I do not want to lose the possibility of buying the car.
Thanks for any help and opinions.
Rick
yea thats a major project . are you planning on doing all the work yourself? that can be a factor
I own a high end restoration shop so that is not an issue at all. However and that being said, my time is worth money so I have to keep that in mind in the overall picture of the restoration. I am thinking very easily $100-125,000 including parts and labor for the restoration back to concours correct and that makes me VERY nervous especially with a non original short block.
Nice find but yes it's a dilemma....If you were going to end up with a more than 95% original car including factory born drive train and body once restored ....then I wouldn't mind paying a premium for the right restoration candidate. Is this a car you've always wanted or is it simply going up for sale once finished? I have no idea what the seller wants but I could easily see someone not familiar with restoration costs willing to spend $65K to $75K just to say they now own a KR in need of restoration. I mean if you can purchase for around $45K or so it might be worth it with your available resources but I doubt the seller is anywhere near this figure. I wish you well in your decision and it's nice to know these projects are still out there waiting to be found. David
How many miles on the car makes a difference also.
If what you say is correct and you sound like you have educated yourself on things that are important, I would think something around 60-65k is probably retail. I think your estimates of what needs to be done and the cost associated are spot on.
Consider this if this car were rebuilt to the highest quality and achieved national awards, it might be worth 160-170k in todays market.
So, you are not going to make any serious money, even doing the work yourself.
Rear side markers should sit on the surface of the rear quarter on a KR and not be recessed
Check out that shifter knob. That's a good sign.. ;)
chris
My guy who is famous in the Shelby/Mustang/Lightweight Fords told me that doing to car over so you want to enjoy it but not thinking too much about value will make you happy in the long run, He was RIGHT. Also, that has to work for you.
My dilemma was I had 4 deadbeats working, or looking at my car for a total of 10 years, I was so deep into it that cutting it loose was really not an option, also I wanted to prove friends wrong and get the car finished. I ended up taking to who I should have taken it to first, and it is now a beautiful car! I probably (with the market in decline factored in) have about 40K more that it was worth. If I took it to my guy right off the car I would probably be into it for a profit of 10K. But, I had the money to put into it and it makes me very happy every time I drive it.
That being said, I have a friend who might be interested in the car if you don't want it or if you want a fee of some sort for it. Just saying....
Let me leave you with these two Chinese proverbs;
1) A picture is worth a thousands words ( I have two for you )
2) 1968 more Ford than Shelby
"Haoyun"
Apples and oranges.
Offer the seller $50,000 and go from there.
Without the original motor and without the integrity of all that original metal that would be replaced it's worth thinking about the project twice...
If ur going high end don't forget that a correct block dated 1968 will cost you at least 2k and the "AA" carby at least 3k If dated properly.
So that's 5k added to project .
Is the starter relay delay there?.......
Offer less than that, your time either putting it together or waiting for it to be put together is priceless
Quote from: Bigfoot on January 05, 2020, 09:33:16 PM
Offer the seller $50,000 and go from there.
Without the original motor and without the integrity of all that original metal that would be replaced it's worth thinking about the project twice...
Be careful who you take advice from here on the forum, many are enthusiasts, few are experts, some are neither ;)
It's not difficult to figure out who's who. ::)
Welcome to the forum Rick.
Chris
Quote from: FL SAAC TONY on January 05, 2020, 10:01:22 PM
Definitely agree with you apples and oranges
Just look at the 1967 Shelby prices compared to the 1968 Ford Shelby prices
Quote from: Tired Sheep on January 05, 2020, 08:39:57 PM
Apples and oranges.
Tony, the white '67 GT350 sold for that much because it was Ruben's car. Celebrity ownership always raises the value of cars. ;D
Welcome to the forum Rick
Sheep, definitely agree with you apples and oranges
Just look at the 1967 Shelby prices compared to the 1968 Ford Shelby prices
Quote from: Tired Sheep on January 05, 2020, 08:39:57 PM
Apples and oranges.
Quote from: RickN427 on January 05, 2020, 03:43:23 PM
I own a high end restoration shop so that is not an issue at all. However and that being said, my time is worth money so I have to keep that in mind in the overall picture of the restoration. I am thinking very easily $100-125,000 including parts and labor for the restoration back to concours correct and that makes me VERY nervous especially with a non original short block.
Rick consider this, most cars don't have their original motor.
Many were blown up back in the day and replaced. That's what happens when they are driven. ;D
This can/may be a contentious issue for a buyer.
Your motivation is a key factor. If you are looking to restore/drive the car, how can you put a price on that?
Obviously you don't want to be upside down in it, but sounds like you are well aware of the costs.
Lastly, most would agree that auctions are NOT the best indicator of current values.
Chris
Auctions are only a device to track current reported sales. Private sales may go undisclosed or over or under inflated.
So in essence you'll get an over all accurate prices of what a certain brand is doing. The advantage of the auction data removes the need for statistical interpretation, allowing for pricing calculations without opinion or bias. Well heck you already know this.
Remember, opinions are like belly buttons and everyone is an expert Monday morning quarter back.
Good luck in your search !
Appears to be a solid candidate for sure. Looks like it may not be an original red car?
Needs lots of bodywork. Per original post, it is a White car. Was painted red 40 plus years ago.
If you are having a shop do the work easily 1-125 for rusty car needing correct block and carb (I'm sure much more needed check radiator, fan shroud, air cleaner, snorkle that's another 10 k. Even if you bought for 50 you're already upside down. Better to invest 100 + for solid no excuses driver or 150+ for 100% concours. They are out there
Radiator, shroud, air cleaner and snorkel all there.
Rick buy it and enjoy it, if you don't someone else will. I especially love to find what you just crossed paths with its a perfect candidate for a redo. The debate continues to rage about do auctions set pricing on cars. They certainly do, that's why most real car people cant get enough of them. The greatest car collectors in the world cant wait for the auctions to find that elusive prize, or the guy that has a beer budget and champagne dreams theres something for everyone. No armchair quarterbacking experts, no Kelly blue book valuations, or even the automotive bible HEMMINGS cant compare when the auctions begin. It is a crazy circus but that's where we go for Cobras to lambos to well VW micro buses you never know whats going to show up! :)
Unless it is really cheap and complete ,I would bag it and find a more solid car that needs less body work for a bit more cash.It is definitely a base for a restoration,but not a particular solid one by appearances.There ARE other cars out there...My 2 cents.
Quote from: 557 on January 06, 2020, 08:40:39 PM
Unless it is really cheap and complete ,I would bag it and find a more solid car that needs less body work for a bit more cash.It is definitely a base for a restoration,but not a particular solid one by appearances.There ARE other cars out there...My 2 cents.
This advice would serve most people really well.
That said,..
Like Dennis indicated,...some people love a project like this one.
Good morning Mr B,
Missed your comment, who is this celebrity we have???
Hollywood ???
Quote from: BGlover67 on January 05, 2020, 11:24:33 PM
Quote from: FL SAAC TONY on January 05, 2020, 10:01:22 PM
Definitely agree with you apples and oranges
Just look at the 1967 Shelby prices compared to the 1968 Ford Shelby prices
Quote from: Tired Sheep on January 05, 2020, 08:39:57 PM
Tony, the white '67 GT350 sold for that much because it was Ruben's car. Celebrity ownership always raises the value of cars. ;D
I have gathered enough information about the car and will likely schedule a meeting with the owner next week and see if we can come to a deal. Not likely as we are pretty far apart. If not I will likely try and find a buyer for it and make a small fee. I am just too anal about my restorations and will be in it for way more money than the car is worth. Unlike some people I just cannot cut corners on my restorations but I pay for it in the end. My last personal restoration was over 2200 hours and $200k (including my labor) and I just cannot do that again. I greatly appreciate all the advice and help I have received so far.
I feel your pain. I have done a dozen high end cars. There are no shortage of customers, but is painful. Its hard to convey that to the owners.
Buy a road car and drive it.
+ 1 exactly my sentiments
Quote from: Coralsnake on January 08, 2020, 11:02:02 AM
I feel your pain. I have done a dozen high end cars. There are no shortage of customers, but is painful. Its hard to convey that to the owners.
Buy a road car and drive it.
Walk away. There are GT 500KR's out there in Driving Condition that is worthy for Local Car Shows in the Price Range it will take you to Restore that one.
Quote from: FL SAAC TONY on January 08, 2020, 10:34:40 AM
Good morning Mr B,
Missed your comment, who is this celebrity we have???
Hollywood ???
Quote from: BGlover67 on January 05, 2020, 11:24:33 PM
Quote from: FL SAAC TONY on January 05, 2020, 10:01:22 PM
Definitely agree with you apples and oranges
Just look at the 1967 Shelby prices compared to the 1968 Ford Shelby prices
Quote from: Tired Sheep on January 05, 2020, 08:39:57 PM
Tony, the white '67 GT350 sold for that much because it was Ruben's car. Celebrity ownership always raises the value of cars. ;D
No, Ruben of course. That was his car.
The car is not all that rare or anything special. Doubtful you have any sentimental attachment. Objectively, it's rotted basket case with no financial return.
My $0.02 having built and owned my '68 for 43 years, offer $20K for the body and buy a new, R3 shell. Build a new, BBM side oiler. Put an eye stopping, flow coated paint job on the shell. Transfer all the hardware from the old body. Consider a Holley Sniper EFI and ignition. You'll have beautiful, rust free, reliable, car. Something you'd have no second thoughts to drive cross country. Fast enough to scare you and turn heads where ever you go. If you decide to sell, and honest about it's history, lot of folks looking for something other than a fragile, trail queen. Keep in mind, the highest selling, '68 auction cars were not concours restorations. Also, if familiar with the early Bronco market, those that run & dive flawlessly with professionally done up grades are commanding the highest price. You could always transfer the VIN from the rotted body. Such is legal in my state and on par with what Shelby planned to pass of with their 50th anniversary heritage restorations. Again, just my opinion.
Amount of rust in it kills it for me, find a rust free and accident free project that is mostly stock, makes for a more easy and enjoyable restoration.
Pay more at the start for a better car, and it will pay off.
Also, if you don't need to have a 68KR, a 67 GT350 will be an easier project.
Or a 66 but they are getting up there in price on projects.
JMO
IMO: Pass on it. As others here have said, it's a much better idea to buy a much better car to start with.
Even if the car was free, the amount of man hours needed here is scary.
Quote from: BGlover67 on January 08, 2020, 01:18:30 PM
Quote from: FL SAAC TONY on January 08, 2020, 10:34:40 AM
Good morning Mr B,
Missed your comment, who is this celebrity we have???
Hollywood ???
Quote from: BGlover67 on January 05, 2020, 11:24:33 PM
Quote from: FL SAAC TONY on January 05, 2020, 10:01:22 PM
Definitely agree with you apples and oranges
Just look at the 1967 Shelby prices compared to the 1968 Ford Shelby prices
Quote from: Tired Sheep on January 05, 2020, 08:39:57 PM
Tony, the white '67 GT350 sold for that much because it was Ruben's car. Celebrity ownership always raises the value of cars. ;D
No, Ruben of course. That was his car.
LOL. I missed this previously. Nice.
Quote from: Chris Thauberger on January 05, 2020, 11:03:38 PM
Be careful who you take advice from here on the forum, many are enthusiasts, few are experts, some are neither ;)
It's not difficult to figure out who's who. ::)
Welcome to the forum Rick.
Chris
Very true and there are many that think their car is worth more than the rest. The reality is the prices have been coming down for a few years now. Don't get the BJ BUG or the Mecum MADNESS! It usually will cost more to restore it than the worth.
And I am no expert...just been an owner since 1981.
I don't think its a re-body car...it can be fixed and be right. I am a little surprised that people on here are basically telling a person to ruin the value via "body replacement"
I have a friend who loves to restore cars like that, its not for me....but there are peeps out there that can slowly restore a car and who don't care about money or time....
Save us from those devils, Amen hallelujah !
Quote from: 67 GT350 on January 08, 2020, 04:53:29 PM
Quote from: Chris Thauberger on January 05, 2020, 11:03:38 PM
Be careful who you take advice from here on the forum, many are enthusiasts, few are experts, some are neither ;)
It's not difficult to figure out who's who. ::)
Welcome to the forum Rick.
Chris
Very true and there are many that think their car is worth more than the rest. The reality is the prices have been coming down for a few years now. Don't get the BJ BUG or the Mecum MADNESS! It usually will cost more to restore it than the worth.
And I am no expert...just been an owner since 1981.
I have never rebodied a restoration and have no intention of starting that. This car is not all that bad compared to some we have restored.
Please put doing a rebody out of our minds.
Definitely NO RE-BODY! That car clearly does not need it.
You can build the "restomod" car the suggested without a Shelby number, besides I dont think you can buy it for anything close to 20k
Quote from: 6s2020 on January 08, 2020, 04:29:49 PM
Amount of rust in it kills it for me, find a rust free and accident free project that is mostly stock, makes for a more easy and enjoyable restoration.
Pay more at the start for a better car, and it will pay off.
Also, if you don't need to have a 68KR, a 67 GT350 will be an easier project.
Or a 66 but they are getting up there in price on projects.
JMO
Quote from: 67 GT350 on January 08, 2020, 05:02:49 PM
I don't think its a re-body car...it can be fixed and be right. I am a little surprised that people on here are basically telling a person to ruin the value via "body replacement"
I have a friend who loves to restore cars like that, its not for me....but there are peeps out there that can slowly restore a car and who don't care about money or time....
Not sure who you mean by your comment, but to be clear i was not saying rebody , i am saying pass on it and get a better shelby project.
Would be prudent to quote who you are referring to as to avoid confusion.
Cheers
Read post 32
A little disappointing on a website that should be promoting the Shelby marque, in my humble opinion
Yeah ,I am not really down with taking parts off a real Shelby to build a fake one...Kinda a lack of respect for history IMHO.....
MOST of these cars don't figure financially. Even Concourse winners don't and maybe even they are further under water if the total amount of labor hours are considered as well?
There is no "Book Value" on these cars. You get what you can for them and move on.
Complete basket cases to me have ALWAYS sold for two or three times what they should have IF you start at what you think the current standard is.
I'm thinking that many who have been through this before MIGHT suggest that they experienced a scenario in which the car finished sold for about what the "core" cost plus the parts. No labor.
Many of us here, especially me, are virtually lunatic fringe and just do this stuff out of some misguided perversion of passion?
After 50 years of being involved with basically just Shelbys, I still can't explain why I stay. I can only offer that ilogic as hope to my wife. There is little sense there either?
Some things just don't make any sense at all? ;)
Doug, the more posts I read on the forum, from those who shall remain unnamed, the more you seem like a wise old sage
+ 1
Quote from: Coralsnake on January 09, 2020, 01:09:12 PM
Doug, the more posts I read on the forum, from those who shall remain unnamed, the more you seem like a wise old sage
Quote from: Coralsnake on January 09, 2020, 01:09:12 PM
Doug, the more posts I read on the forum, from those who shall remain unnamed, the more you seem like a wise old sage
Nah. You'll come to your senses in a few minutes. I've been around so long it's probably just "suspension of disbelief" on your part? ;)
+ 1 :)
Quote from: shelbydoug on January 09, 2020, 01:48:41 PM
Quote from: Coralsnake on January 09, 2020, 01:09:12 PM
Nah. You'll come to your senses in a few minutes. I've been around so long it's probably just "suspension of disbelief" on your part? ;)
So? Any updates? Meet with seller?
I am nobody. Don't even own one....yet...make sure you contact the 68 registrar to get whatever info is known in registry.
I admire your courage. You've got the skill set so, if you can buy it right, go for it. Glad you nixed the thought of a rebody. Bring another back to life. ;)
Not yet. I intend to contact the seller back this week armed with the information I have learned and see where we are at. I will let all know. Thanks to everyone's help so far.
I'd want the 'vette back.
+1
Why not, my post count is low.
Quote from: Coralsnake on January 09, 2020, 01:09:12 PM
Doug, the more posts I read on the forum, from those who shall remain unnamed, the more you seem like a wise old sage
Quote from: Rodster-500 on January 12, 2020, 07:34:27 PM
+1
Why not, my post count is low.
Quote from: Coralsnake on January 09, 2020, 01:09:12 PM
Doug, the more posts I read on the forum, from those who shall remain unnamed, the more you seem like a wise old sage
I never thought of that? Ahha! I get it now? ;)
boom holmes !
Quote from: shelbydoug on January 12, 2020, 08:20:39 PM
Quote from: Rodster-500 on January 12, 2020, 07:34:27 PM
+1
Why not, my post count is low.
Quote from: Coralsnake on January 09, 2020, 01:09:12 PM
Doug, the more posts I read on the forum, from those who shall remain unnamed, the more you seem like a wise old sage
I never thought of that? Ahha! I get it now? ;)
Quote from: FL SAAC TONY on January 05, 2020, 08:24:48 PM
Let me leave you with these two Chinese proverbs;
1) A picture is worth a thousands words ( I have two for you )
2) 1968 more Ford than Shelby
"Haoyun"
On the first photo where it sold for 132k, where are the letters"GT" on the front fender stripes ???
Exactly, totally agree. If any of this made financial sense I would be a multi millionaire. Problem is, it doesn't make sense financially even though I do most of my own work. If you buy one of these cars, do it because you have to, you want to, and you need to, not because you think it makes financial sense.
Quote from: shelbydoug on January 09, 2020, 12:08:07 PM
MOST of these cars don't figure financially. Even Concourse winners don't and maybe even they are further under water if the total amount of labor hours are considered as well?
There is no "Book Value" on these cars. You get what you can for them and move on.
Complete basket cases to me have ALWAYS sold for two or three times what they should have IF you start at what you think the current standard is.
I'm thinking that many who have been through this before MIGHT suggest that they experienced a scenario in which the car finished sold for about what the "core" cost plus the parts. No labor.
Many of us here, especially me, are virtually lunatic fringe and just do this stuff out of some misguided perversion of passion?
After 50 years of being involved with basically just Shelbys, I still can't explain why I stay. I can only offer that ilogic as hope to my wife. There is little sense there either?
Some things just don't make any sense at all? ;)
Quote from: 69mach351w on January 13, 2020, 12:58:00 PM
Quote from: FL SAAC TONY on January 05, 2020, 08:24:48 PM
Let me leave you with these two Chinese proverbs;
1) A picture is worth a thousands words ( I have two for you )
2) 1968 more Ford than Shelby
"Haoyun"
On the first photo where it sold for 132k, where are the letters"GT" on the front fender stripes ???
Don't start asking hard questions, just be happy he can cut and paste ;)
Wait for it..... I think there is a clever come back coming...wait...wait... (https://emoticons.datahamster.com/rotfl2.gif)
We wish we knew why you are such a bitter person. Guess you are born that way.
May God have mercy on you
Quote from: Chris Thauberger on January 13, 2020, 03:19:16 PM
Quote from: 69mach351w on January 13, 2020, 12:58:00 PM
Quote from: FL SAAC TONY on January 05, 2020, 08:24:48 PM
Let me leave you with these two Chinese proverbs;
1) A picture is worth a thousands words ( I have two for you )
2) 1968 more Ford than Shelby
"Haoyun"
On the first photo where it sold for 132k, where are the letters"GT" on the front fender stripes ???
Don't start asking hard questions, just be happy he can cut and paste ;)
Well that's about what you can expect from mr simon (tony), if you don't know just say so. There's no shame in not knowing.
Now lets stay on topic.
69mach351w, I don't know why the 'GT' is missing from the rocker stripe.
Do you suppose that had something to do with the low selling price?
I wonder what else was missing for this particular KR vert to sell at such a low price?
Heck, maybe it's not even a Shelby. Might be a clone. Would be a high price for a clone.
I would expect if this was a 4 speed the price would be well north of 135,000.00 even with the 10 spokes.
JMHO
Its half time and what a game !
How you doing sour puss?
I even even heard at the auction someone suggests that the 68 Shelbys should be renamed 68 Shemans
Why ?
Because the 68 Shelbys like yours tanked at Mecum with the exception of a select few.
Stop high jacking this thread, this guy just want an opinion on a vehicle he found.
Hasta manana senorita tank !
Quote from: Chris Thauberger on January 13, 2020, 09:27:10 PM
Well that's about what you can expect from mr simon (tony), if you don't know just say so. There's no shame in not knowing.
Now lets stay on topic.
69mach351w, I don't know why the 'GT' is missing from the rocker stripe.
Do you suppose that had something to do with the low selling price?
I wonder what else was missing for this particular KR vert to sell at such a low price?
Heck, maybe it's nor even a Shelby. Might be a clone. Would be a high price for a clone.
I would expect if this was a 4 speed the price would be well north of 135,000.00 even with the 10 spokes.
JMHO
Yes, that is indeed all I wanted to do. As a newbie and certainly no expert on Mustangs let alone Shelby's I just needed some advice and not a bunch of unrelated bickering. Thanks to those that helped but let's move on and stop this. We are grown ups, let's start acting like some.
+1
good luck on your venture
Quote from: RickN427 on January 13, 2020, 10:53:17 PM
Yes, that is indeed all I wanted to do. As a newbie and certainly no expert on Mustangs let alone Shelby's I just needed some advice and not a bunch of unrelated bickering. Thanks to those that helped but let's move on and stop this. We are grown ups, let's start acting like some.
QuoteYes, that is indeed all I wanted to do. As a newbie and certainly no expert on Mustangs let alone Shelby's I just needed some advice and not a bunch of unrelated bickering. Thanks to those that helped but let's move on and stop this. We are grown ups, let's start acting like some.
And we wonder why the hobby is slowing dying. Too many peeing contest and replys just to try to up our count. JMHO :(
TOB
No, that is not the correct answer
"You can't sell an old man's car to a young man" is true for a reason. Buyers tend to get vintage cars they lusted after as kids—so Volkswagen Golfs and Buick GNs are popular again, 30 or 40 years on. Conversely, the Midel T or 1968 Lincoln Continental your dad kept parked in the garage for years may not be as appealing. The times they are changing ...
Quote from: TOBKOB on January 14, 2020, 08:51:05 AM
QuoteYes, that is indeed all I wanted to do. As a newbie and certainly no expert on Mustangs let alone Shelby's I just needed some advice and not a bunch of unrelated bickering. Thanks to those that helped but let's move on and stop this. We are grown ups, let's start acting like some.
And we wonder why the hobby is slowing dying. Too many peeing contest and replys just to try to up our count. JMHO :(
TOB
Good talk Rick.
Glad you see what's going on...
PM me with any further questions as the static gets heavy on the forum at times ;)
QuoteNo, that is not the correct answer
::)
TOB
Dont be influenced by the trolls. The pendulum will swing back.
Some older reproduction stripe kits sometimes omitted the "GT". No big deal. Its amazing how people think a bad stripe job automatically means question the authenticity of the car.