Cheers!
It's time for birthdays...Carroll Shelby and the Coralsnake.com
Ever wonder about those dual serial numbers and why they seem to appear randomly? Do you like vintage ads? (the only type you will ever find on the website)
How about seeing 68 # 101 finished? Do you have a question about GT500 pulleys? or why they are "S" codes?
www.thecoralsnake.com/new
Nice update Pete.
Where does he find the time?
Great contribution to the hobby Pete.
Much appreciated, your the best !
Looks great - One question I have always meant to ask Pete.
The PI cylinder heads are drilled for 8 bolt holes on the exhaust so they would not work on a Shelby 428. Also, the oil pan needed for the Mustang installation is not the same as the oil pan used for the Shelby. How did those parts get installed when the engine ID was the same as a 428 PI engine?
Quote from: Coralsnake on January 09, 2020, 07:02:01 PM
Cheers!
It's time for birthdays...Carroll Shelby and the Coralsnake.com
Ever wonder about those dual serial numbers and why they seem to appear randomly? Do you like vintage ads? (the only type you will ever find on the website)
How about seeing 68 # 101 finished? Do you have a question about GT500 pulleys? or why they are "S" codes?
www.thecoralsnake.com/new
Quote from: Royce Peterson on January 09, 2020, 08:54:11 PM
Looks great - One question I have always meant to ask Pete.
The PI cylinder heads are drilled for 8 bolt holes on the exhaust so they would not work on a Shelby 428. Also, the oil pan needed for the Mustang installation is not the same as the oil pan used for the Shelby. How did those parts get installed when the engine ID was the same as a 428 PI engine?
[/quote]What do you think was different about the oil pan that was installed from Ford on the PI engine and the one you think was used on the Shelby?
As you know, engines were not built on the vehicle assembly line. They were prebuilt and shipped to New Jersey. The build sheet code for the engine is the key. Each code dictated specifically what parts should be used. I suspect no other Fords used those specific GT500 engine identifiers- 405J04 and 405J05 each probably had a specific build sheet for engine guys to follow
Love your website Pete. So much priceless info shared as well as great stories. Thanks for all you do!
Corey
Bob,
Full size cars - i.e. Police cars - did not use the same oil pan as FE's that were going into either midsize or pony cars.
Quote from: Bob Gaines on January 09, 2020, 09:19:26 PM
Quote from: Royce Peterson on January 09, 2020, 08:54:11 PM
Looks great - One question I have always meant to ask Pete.
The PI cylinder heads are drilled for 8 bolt holes on the exhaust so they would not work on a Shelby 428. Also, the oil pan needed for the Mustang installation is not the same as the oil pan used for the Shelby. How did those parts get installed when the engine ID was the same as a 428 PI engine?
What do you think was different about the oil pan that was installed from Ford on the PI engine and the one you think was used on the Shelby?
[/quote]
I looked in the Master Parts catalog and did not find anything specific regarding the 405J suffixes. Were not 405J04 and 405J05 the same suffixes used on police cars? Google was no help on this question BTW.......
Quote from: Coralsnake on January 10, 2020, 05:48:35 AM
As you know, engines were not built on the vehicle assembly line. They were prebuilt and shipped to New Jersey. The build sheet code for the engine is the key. Each code dictated specifically what parts should be used. I suspect no other Fords used those specific GT500 engine identifiers- 405J04 and 405J05 each probably had a specific build sheet for engine guys to follow
I suspect not.
Did they use a aluminum intake?
Thanks Pete for your excellent site. I am amazed at how some owners- even long time owners- have never visited the page or would quote "facts" that were contrary to what is found on your site. I love all the vintage photos and info available for anyone to see. Gary
That was the original idea. Provide basic information for everyone as a baseline.
Quote from: Coralsnake on January 10, 2020, 09:14:44 AM
That was the original idea. Provide basic information for everyone as a baseline.
Well done I think.
Great job as always pete . Just think of how GREAT it would have been if pete was a 69 Shelby guy and would have started a 69 Shelby site back 20 years ago and he could have called it Purplesnake HAHA!!!
Im willing to stick my toes into the 1969 pool
;)
The 428 PI engines show the aluminum intake being standard until late in the 1968 calendar year - about midway through the 1969 Model year. So the aluminum C7AE 9425-F (casting numbers) intake would be on every 1968 model year PI build.
Quote from: Coralsnake on January 10, 2020, 09:07:51 AM
I suspect not.
Did they use a aluminum intake?
Quote from: Special Ed on January 10, 2020, 09:53:20 AM
Great job as always pete . Just think of how GREAT it would have been if pete was a 69 Shelby guy and would have started a 69 Shelby site back 20 years ago and he could have called it Purplesnake HAHA!!!
Now there's a thought?
Well we need a non Shelby - PI build sheet
That would be intetesting to see
so ooo would the change ofdual vin plate show up as a warranty repair?
Quote from: gt350shelb on January 10, 2020, 11:24:09 AM
so ooo would the change ofdual vin plate show up as a warranty repair?
Why would it get changed out?
Im not sure Phil
I think I have information on about 80 dual serials. So we are taking about a hundred cars possibly?
Doug see memo on this page
http://www.thecoralsnake.com/dualserial
Dealers were supposed to replace the dual serial number plates.
Quote from: shelbymann1970 on January 10, 2020, 09:12:24 AM
Thanks Pete for your excellent site. I am amazed at how some owners- even long time owners- have never visited the page or would quote "facts" that were contrary to what is found on your site. I love all the vintage photos and info available for anyone to see. Gary
Pete's website is the 1st place I go when looking for info I need about '68 Shelbys. I find it's also a great place to check for fact versus fiction.
Here's an example of minutiae that can be oh so important. When I was looking for front window crank handles for my car, I cited info, crank length and casting #s included, from
Coralsnake.com only to get lots of grief and negative comments from many of the typical parts vendors. They all swore that Ford would not have made 2 different window cranks for the Mustang door windows in 1968. Front versus rear window cranks; yes. Deluxe interior versus standard interiors; No. Undaunted by their negativity, I found what I needed in junk boxes that some small time vendors had that held all kinds of door handles or window cranks.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, if Pete put it on the web, I believe it, that settles it.
Pete, Thanks for all you do for this hobby.
Steve
I never saw those letters.
To answer Phil's question, check with Vinman. He transferred the waranty info from the microfish system. There were eight rolls of it which is enough paper to fill 8 filing cabinets with.
I never saw any waranty notations about vin tags. That doesn't mean they aren't there though.
He noted the warranty information in the Registry. Not me.
It is unknown if that is the complete total of the records but considering how many invoices and IBM cards were missing I would say that there may be more documentation out there somewhere?
The letter explains a lot to me. It explains why some cars have the dual number tags still and they are higher Shelby unit numbers then others.
I would think then that -00212 SHOULD have originally been a dual number car?
Quote from: shelbydoug on January 10, 2020, 12:39:39 PM
I never saw those letters.
To answer Phil's question, check with Vinman. He transferred the waranty info from the microfish system. There were eight rolls of it which is enough paper to fill 8 filing cabinets with.
I never saw any waranty notations about vin tags. That doesn't mean they aren't there though.
I would think then that -00212 SHOULD have originally been a dual number car?
Well there are 2 invoices for the car one a dual number and a second that is not
Phil the cut off date at Smith was 15 December, before that date you probably had dual serial number plate originally
Quote from: gt350shelb on January 10, 2020, 01:35:08 PM
Quote from: shelbydoug on January 10, 2020, 12:39:39 PM
I never saw those letters.
To answer Phil's question, check with Vinman. He transferred the waranty info from the microfish system. There were eight rolls of it which is enough paper to fill 8 filing cabinets with.
I never saw any waranty notations about vin tags. That doesn't mean they aren't there though.
I would think then that -00212 SHOULD have originally been a dual number car?
Well there are 2 invoices for the car one a dual number and a second that is not
I saw a few of those invoices for more then several cars.
I would interpret that situation of two invoices as, it was intended for -00212 to have the dual numbers. The two invoices suggest that the car initially had the dual number vin tag and that was changed before it was shipped to the dealer. The invoices matching the vin tags.
The window sticker is one of the carbon copies from the invoice and they generally show the dealer the car was being shipped to.
The exceptions to that on '68s is the Hertz cars. Those don't show retail prices but a discounted price that I'd have to describe as "discounted" or maybe that was the cost to Shelby to produce the car?
I've ONLY seen one '68 Hertz invoice, and no, it wasn't mine. ;)
What would change that view would be if the car did have a waranty invoice from the selling dealer to change the tag.
You have to ask Vinnie if he has seen even one AND how else would a dealer document the change and request payment otherwise?
Another great and helpful update to your site, Pete.
As unique and kinda cool the dual serial number cars are, I'd prefer to have a single number.
The DMV, insurance company inspectors, and any nosy LEO would likely cause you to spend a lot of time 'splainin why your Shelby has two VINs.
I have another letter I can post up
Quote from: Royce Peterson on January 10, 2020, 09:02:52 AM
Bob,
Full size cars - i.e. Police cars - did not use the same oil pan as FE's that were going into either midsize or pony cars.
Quote from: Bob Gaines on January 09, 2020, 09:19:26 PM
Quote from: Royce Peterson on January 09, 2020, 08:54:11 PM
Looks great - One question I have always meant to ask Pete.
The PI cylinder heads are drilled for 8 bolt holes on the exhaust so they would not work on a Shelby 428. Also, the oil pan needed for the Mustang installation is not the same as the oil pan used for the Shelby. How did those parts get installed when the engine ID was the same as a 428 PI engine?
What do you think was different about the oil pan that was installed from Ford on the PI engine and the one you think was used on the Shelby?
[/quote]Ok I thought you were inferring that AO Smith changed the oil pan. Sorry I assumed that you were aware that the engine code specifically designated how the engine was built.
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/8-100120182933.jpeg)
more supporting documentation
maybe we should split the dual vin off into its own thread / and i will share invoices and dates of mine
Quote from: Coralsnake on January 10, 2020, 01:39:41 PM
Phil the cut off date at Smith was 15 December, before that date you probably had dual serial number plate originally
this may explain why the door tag is missing
Pete, is there mention on your site when they switched over from the "Shelby American" plate to the "Shelby Automotive" plate under the hood? Gary
Its not listed, but the change at Smith was March 1
Quote from: Coralsnake on January 11, 2020, 10:43:36 AM
Its not listed, but the change at Smith was March 1
Thanks
Pete, awesome job. thank you for keeping it real!!!
chris
I would like to believe the letters / numbers after the 428PI engine code specified the Shelby 428 only engine parts. So far documenting that is something that I have found no evidence for. Ford was a very process driven organization then. I expect there is documentation, it just needs to be found.
Quote from: Bob Gaines on January 10, 2020, 05:50:24 PM
Quote from: Royce Peterson on January 10, 2020, 09:02:52 AM
Bob,
Full size cars - i.e. Police cars - did not use the same oil pan as FE's that were going into either midsize or pony cars.
Quote from: Bob Gaines on January 09, 2020, 09:19:26 PM
Quote from: Royce Peterson on January 09, 2020, 08:54:11 PM
Looks great - One question I have always meant to ask Pete.
The PI cylinder heads are drilled for 8 bolt holes on the exhaust so they would not work on a Shelby 428. Also, the oil pan needed for the Mustang installation is not the same as the oil pan used for the Shelby. How did those parts get installed when the engine ID was the same as a 428 PI engine?
What do you think was different about the oil pan that was installed from Ford on the PI engine and the one you think was used on the Shelby?
Ok I thought you were inferring that AO Smith changed the oil pan. Sorry I assumed that you were aware that the engine code specifically designated how the engine was built.
[/quote]
add this to the fogg page :)
That is still cool. I have a Fogg car so can really appreciate that.
Quote from: cbrown on January 11, 2020, 08:29:20 PM
Pete, awesome job. thank you for keeping it real!!!
chris
+1
Excellent information as always. Thanks.