Hi guys, i need your help. I have this Cobra Weber intake for over 10 years. I once bought it at a swap meet. I don't know if it is original or an older reproduction. Thank you for your help.
PM sent
I have a buddy in No. CA who has the identical intake in pic 1.
Is it original or older reproduction ?
Thanks,
BG
Quote from: oldcanuck on February 05, 2020, 11:30:09 AM
I have a buddy in No. CA who has the identical intake in pic 1.
Is it original or older reproduction ?
Thanks,
BG
PM sent.
Dan
Dan,
PM sent,
Earl J
Hush Hush stuff. 8)
PM sent!
Quote from: Iceman on January 22, 2020, 10:18:08 AM
I don't know if it is original or an older reproduction.
Quote from: oldcanuck on February 05, 2020, 11:30:09 AM
Is it original or older reproduction ?
BG
Quote from: BGlover67 on February 05, 2020, 05:47:10 PM
Hush Hush stuff. 8)
Oh well, I guess the rest of us aren't going to be privy to the answer to the question? Well, I guess those responding (via "PM") just don't want to admonish him in public for acquiring a reproduction? :'( If that is the case, that's sure nice of them. ::)
Scott.
So far I haven't got a useful answer :'(. If it's not original, why? Thanks to all, Roman
Quote from: Iceman on February 12, 2020, 01:44:40 PM
So far I haven't got a useful answer :'(. If it's not original, why? Thanks to all, Roman
Welcome to the club......
Quote from: oldcanuck on February 12, 2020, 02:26:47 PM
Quote from: Iceman on February 12, 2020, 01:44:40 PM
So far I haven't got a useful answer :'(. If it's not original, why? Thanks to all, Roman
Welcome to the club......
GEEZ: no need for that comment. Its not that easy - people send you pictures and you are supposed to tell them how you can tell when some parts are near impossible to tell by pictures. Its al ot different when you are holding it in your hand. You got a reply but one of the most knowledgeable cobra guys in the world, if he can give you an answer definitely . he will .
I'm gonna' send a PM. Anybody want one? :o
It is an original, why all the super secret stuff...........I don't know.
Dan,
Thank you very much for your comments and detailed explanation. Now I'm still a bit irritated. You wrote me the following in your PM:
All reproduction I believe. Does not match the 1964 ex-Bob Johnson system I have or the spare original intake and studs on hand.
Dan
I also know that sometimes it's difficult to see details only on pictures and it's better to compare with an original part. But if you need detailed pictures pls. tell me.
I also didn't want a big disskusion just a reply to my post not to others. I really appreciate this forum for professional and very competent contributions.
Thanks for help
I apologize.
The intake in the first post of this thread is not just like the two known originals I have. One that I have in a complete induction system has continuous history back to Bob Johnson's use. The intake in the original post might be a very late one, me commenting that is probably reproduction doesn't mean positively that it is.
I just deleted that previous long post mixing questions from two intake owners and replaced it below.
We can continue via direct contact if you wish.
Dan
COBRA lettered "Weber" intake, original or not?
Not the easiest question to answer based on most low resolution images especially when the intake is partially obscured by carburetors and ancillary components or just one to a couple of viewpoints are presented.
The common issues are covering all variants of Shelby American offerings 1963 -1967:
1) There was not an original design but several. Originally created while only 260 c.i.d. engines existed, castings changed after 289 c.i.d. engines were introduced. You probably know that there were versions with left and right bank carburetors facing different directions and versions with all the carburetors facing one way. The beginning of a complex set of possibilities to be "original".
2) Now that you have raw castings the next level of different original versions come into play in that not every intake was machined the same way. Shelby American used and sold intakes in standard and light weight machined versions. They also had versions machined for stock engines or for use with engines with milled cylinder heads. Intakes used on Shelby American team cars often, but not always, had port matching to a given cylinder head configuration depending in large measure to what racing organization the car was going to participate.
3) Owner modifications. I won't try to cover every customization of an "original" intake I have seen. Lots of the modifications, especially polishing the intake all over, confounds trying to figure out what it was when first made. Modifications include some things done during "restorations".
4) Reproductions of sorts. I will hazard a guess that at least five or six companies or individuals have made their own interpretation of casting patterns and how they were machined. Copies were for sale nationally mail order or phone in order by 1980-81. Being "old" or the seller had it for three decades doesn't count as evidence of originality.
a. Most of the reproductions are fairly easy to detect if out by themselves because their makers were not really trying to made absolute direct copies.
b. There is a version somebody created that can be very hard to detect as being a post production copy without having the one in question sitting right beside a known original.
1963-67 made "original", not all the simple without seeing them in person out by themselves or getting a really good set of pictures of them out by themselves. Some reproductions are so far off one picture of them upside down is enough to make a firm opinion. There is one reproduction so close it takes thorough study to feel confident you have spotted it.
So? The so what is being comfortable with your expenditure or your sale as there can be a large difference in market value in genuine 1960s pieces and everything else. Some people prefer original period pieces and some are satisfied if something looks great when in use. Market wise, the most valuable original intakes are ones that have never been modified in any way including glass bead blasting. Unmolested after leaving Shelby American originals are the easiest to authenticate even if you plan modifying them.
Yes, on a case by case basis I have done authentication in detail with marked up macro pictures and commentary for sellers and potential buyers. I can offer opinions. There are so many variables in "original" and "reproduction" that global how to tell anything from anything else would be impractical in my opinion.
Ok, I'll bite.
These manifolds appear to have no provisions for a thermostat. Did they use a restrictor or restriction somewhat like these Moroso units for regular housings?
(https://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/large/mor-63440.jpg?rep=False)
Quote from: Bossbill on February 13, 2020, 08:15:45 PM
Ok, I'll bite.
These manifolds appear to have no provisions for a thermostat. Did they use a restrictor or restriction somewhat like these Moroso units for regular housings?
(https://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/large/mor-63440.jpg?rep=False)
Bill,
No these manifolds do not have provisions for a thermostat. From what I've seen and experienced on cobras is the upper radiator hose went from the "Y" water neck to the temp sender (Smiths/early & S/W later) then to the radiator.
When these Webered cobras started venturing on to the streets guys like Jim Inglese developed external inline housings. Even earlier I recall owners sticking smaller diameter thermostats directly into the upper hose. Dan can elaborate on this with more info.
My personal experience currently is running an external thermostat housing that has ports to direct coolant flow to the water pump bypass as well as the heater/defroster just before the thermostat thereby allowing the thermostat to function as it should this being a street driven car.
Some guys run without a thermostat on the track which I understand, but the ones that attemp it on the street... I dunno.
That's my take.
Cheers,
~Earl J
Again, just my opinion running an original type Weber manifolds on the street just works better with a thermostat.
The first attached photos are mine. The unit and hoses are routed that way to clear the fan. Definitely NOT original, but I can drive in stop and go commuter traffic without over heating issues. I also run an R Model radiator and R Model oil cooler assembly which aids in keeping the temperature in check.
The last photo is a modern version of a "Y" waterneck with a built-in provision for a thermostat, cast and developed for the the BOSS302 Bud Moore Mini or Cross Boss manifold. This was designed and built by one of the guys on the BOSS forum. It also happens to fit the Cobra Weber manifold. Cast with the Ford oval (nice detail touch) This is not an OEM piece.
~E
Earl,
Somewhere back a long time ago I read an article where a Cobra owner described a Ford tractor in hose thermostat in his car's upper radiator hose in the late 1960s or maybe early 1970s. Sounded interesting. When we installed the play engine in our red car I bought a new old stock Ford tractor thermostat. It was indicated that it started opening at 160°F, which was the stock Cobra unit rating. I tested it in slowly heating stirred hot water and it started opening right at 160°F. I made two modifications. The outer diameter has a narrow flange formed in for the tractor application that I removed. With the flange gone the unit fit inside the hose very well. The second was add a ring of tiny drilled holes around the valve seat near the tube wall to let air or coolant through. As made the valve was a pretty good seal. My ring of holes helped get the air out during first fill and lets a little water circulate all the time to bring warming water to the thermostat.
I think it works pretty well I think, even when we were caught in an unpredicted snow storm during a tour in the Rocky Mountains. The only external evidence something extra is in the circuit is a hose clamp where the thermostat is. I will add, that our heater is connected and working so some coolant is always passing through that heat exchanger also. I would think that engine warm up would be a little quicker without a heater side circuit.