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Messages - JohnSlack

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1
The best advice is to just hang it on the wall and buy a new one.

       Roy


That could be good advice, I know I plan on running one on my 1969 BOSS 302. But none of mine are that rusty.

However for now the 1970 BOSS has moved ahead of the 1969 due to the special project status of the engine build.


John

2
Hi all,

I was at the Portland Swamp Meet this weekend and I came across this oil pan from a buddy.  He thought I might know the story on it, but I do not.   I expect it is aftermarket.  The welds do look very professional.  It has three baffles inside.   I don't think it is a home made job.   Does anyone have a idea on the manufacture or any other info?

Thanks

Cory




Probably the most important advice on that oil pan. Either acid dip it to remove the rust or soda blast it. Using any other blast media would cause the little remnants to hide in the baffling and it may never come clean.

3
nah, he just got his copy of the Boss 302 Oil Pan & System Modification Booklet...( Really...RARE!)... ::)

The Boss 302 Oil Pan & System Modification Booklet was one of those booklets that came in cereal boxes when I was really little. You also needed the "Official Johnny Quest and Hadji" Decoder Ring. Most people never could break the code because they did not know the name of Johnny's dog was "Bandit", so typically they threw the Booklet away.

However when Road and Track got to do the drivers test on the actual Bud Moore car after the season and Bud Moore offered to let the magazine people see any part of the race engine......Except what was in the oil pan, I became obsessed. So Thanks to Johnny Quest and Scooby Doo I got answers....And apparently pictures as well.


John

4


it would seem the distributor gear loading would be an area of concern (?)

The primary pump keeps the distributor gear load pretty much even, most in 1969 also used the offset distributor which had the benefit of the rubber belt to help with any vibration.


John

5
If the rear pickup runs dry and sucks air, isn't that an issue for keeping pressure in the system without air pockets?

All of the scavenged oil is drawn into the lower section of the two stage pump. That oil is then run through the circular shaped de-aeration section that allows gravity to send the oil free from air and foam directly into the square portion of the oil pan that feeds the main pressure pump. So the main pressure pump section due to the baffling and the delivery of oil from above always has an adequate supply of oil.

The fitting on the side of the pan with the internal drain back baffle is the return from the tank that gets the oil vapor that comes in from the fitting on the side of the intake manifold.

There is a fitting on the front right side of the oil pan that was for checking oil level.

John

6
I'm not sure that anyone can call any of the fabricated pans as original with the exception of the Aviaids on the factory built R models?

Does that really matter though?

What is "original" on an "original Boss 302 Trans Am car"? There was only one from Shelby Racing. There are a bunch more Trans-Am cars then that.

Hi Shelbydoug,

I did pick my words carefully.  Period and original mean different things.  I believe the pan is a period piece, from back in the day.  I can't say it is original to any TransAm BOSS 302.  It is likely just an  over the counter part (OTC).

Thanks

Cory

Yes agreed. Very good explanation.

The development of the Boss 302 Bud Moore pans is interesting. Now you have me wondering if part of the problem with the 302 Tunnel ports blowing engines was this issue of oil being trapped in the back of the pan?  ???


Yes, as the Two Stage oiling was developed in response to that issue. There were also huge quality control issues with the Ford assembled engines themselves. Notice in the pictures provided there are NO HIGH VOLUME primary oil stage components for the actual T/A pumps. The pumps were standard volume with a higher pressure spring. The upper section of the pump is also aluminum compared to cast iron.

The last picture is of an NOS pump from Holman Moody.


John

7


The original pans were a Bud Moore development. The lowered section in the T/A oil pans allowed for a scavenge section that was on the lower part of the oil pump to pick up the oil from the rear of the pan that got trapped back there during acceleration to be brought forward run through a de-aerating centrifuge and drained back into the feed area of the pan. The pans without the lowered area were typically made by other fabricators. Even though Aviad has offered them as well. Without all of the parts the lowered section only does anything during braking.....and that may allow it to hold oil for too long.

8
1966 Shelby GT350/GT350H / Re: Alert!! Replica Stamped with 6S455
« on: April 03, 2022, 12:56:21 PM »
Personally I am not a fan of the "Replica," "Tribute," or "clones."

Then they park their car in with the other real cars.


John

9
Roy is correct except it doesn't have the deeper bottom rear for the scavenge section. Would make a good street or track pan. Depending on the depth there was a 9 quart and a 10 quart version.


John

10
The Lounge / Re: Street racing in California circa 1969-1970
« on: March 21, 2022, 06:52:13 PM »
Greg Shaw was the king of "Squeeze" (his nickname for Nitrous Oxide. Greg made a 300, 450, and a 600 horsepower set up for the race plane. We tested the 450 horsepower unit for a 30 minute flight duration. We carried a lot of squeeze we hardly ever used, but it was there if we needed it.
German innovation in WWII - War Emergency Power  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM-1

I don't have the time right now, however I have a great story about Greg Shaw, Dave Cornell, myself and old Nazi that used to work for Focke Wulf under Kurt Tank. It was the reason we could keep the Nitrous Oxide liquid while feeding it to a 3,350 Cubic inch engine making 4,200 plus horsepower for half an hour. Nobody else could because when a very small group of dedicated people share a secret, they stay that way.

John

11
The Lounge / Re: Street racing in California circa 1969-1970
« on: March 20, 2022, 09:05:09 PM »
At Car Craft Magazine in the early 90s, someone had the idea to do a series of stories about the "Real Truths of Street Racing Today" Or something like that.  We'd planned to report about L.A., Detroit, St Louis, and other lively venues. 

I was freelance at the time, and I (plus one other guy and a Petersen Publishing photographer) spent several weeks going to all the local SoCal illegal venues. We interviewed drivers and spectators who were typically paranoid/secretive/scary (sometimes all three.)  Or they proved to be total squirrels and racer-wanna-bes.

The whole experience was "interesting" to be part of, but the tactical mistake we made was driving a Petersen photo van, which was painted "undercover cop car" brown, with dog dish wheels, no side windows, and replete with giant roof rack platform.  No, we were not welcomed with open arms.  And, shooting flash photos out from the dark confines of the van's interior caused the people to scatter like roaches on a linoleum floor.

Night Two, we wore our Car Craft logo shirts, hats and jackets like they were some sort of gang-member-repellant shields, and it did get a bit easier to walk up to someone and ask if it's okay to take photos of them standing by their car. (But, only about 10% of those we asked, said okay. That's up from 0-1% w/o the Car Craft swag.)

The most memorable time during that story's production was one late night in Lennox area (aka South Central) when we thought the crowd was going to turn on us.  It was only because we knew one old-time racer's nickname (something like "Nitrous Bob") and said he'd vouch for us, that we survived...even though good ol' Bob wasn't there that night. 

We wisely headed back to the Valley, where the Hispanic gangs in low-riders gave off vibes more like PTA Moms in station wagons, by comparison. 

At San Fernando Road, as mentioned by others, the rowdy stuff sometimes did get out of hand...with spectators throwing food, drink cans and rocks at the racing cars. We never saw any guns, but did hear a "pop...pop...pop" once.

We went to Terminal Island and interviewed Big Willy, and he was the overlord, to be sure.  That was 30 years ago.

We ran two or three long stories in Car Craft, before we came to our senses and called it quits.  There was little chance that we'd get the real "full true story" of the inner sanctum of street racing.  Especially because the characters, the streets and the car setups vary, according to parts of the country. 

And, because no one wants to reveal/discuss/admit their knowledge of anything.

"Bottle Bob" ran a late 60s early 70s Corvette on juice, hippy reject cranky old man, was in the middle of swearing he didn't run squeeze on a pass. The solenoid stuck open and blew the mufflers off the back of the car. Sounded like a whole box of M-80s. LOL he was a character. NOT a friend, however I knew who he was.

My Chevelle had a bottle, I could disconnect it, crack open the bottom d prove it was disconnected. I could disconnect the solenoid under the hood. There was another bottle system that went through the frame rails, up through the bottom of the radiator out through the radiator hose, into the bottom of intake manifold and connected to a solenoid under the intake. That's how the nitrous oxide got to the intake manifold. The gasoline solenoid is the one on top nobody ever cared if it got disconnected.....that is how the gasoline got to the intake manifold. The radiator Greg Shaw had made over in a San Fernando radiator shop. The connections were all #6 stainless steel bulkhead fittings out of a San Fernando road surplus shop.

Greg Shaw was the king of "Squeeze" (his nickname for Nitrous Oxide. Greg made a 300, 450, and a 600 horsepower set up for the race plane. We tested the 450 horsepower unit for a 30 minute flight duration. We carried a lot of squeeze we hardly ever used, but it was there if we needed it.

John

12
The Lounge / Re: Street racing in California circa 1969-1970
« on: March 20, 2022, 03:09:29 PM »
throwing rocks at trains is a federal offense and the railroad police have power and NO sense of humor.

The 118 freeway before it was opened both on the West end of the Valley and on the East end of Simi Valley.

Woodley by the Van Nuys airport.

East L.A. scariest night if my life.

A friend of my parents was a railroad cop - never saw the guy smile. What he really hated was stupid employees who who'd break into a shipment to steal a bottle of shampoo. It cost $1,000s to do all the paperwork and investigations then the union usually got the guy his job back.

We used the unfinished 210 in the late 60s. There was also a lot of new housing tracts being built with fresh streets. I worked at the local PD when I got my Road Runner and we'd go to Via Verde after the night shift and use the nice 4 lane road they'd built. The Sheriff came since it was their area. The badges came out and he left.

We'd use the road along the north side of Brackett airport right next to the Pomona Fairgrounds. The cops always showed up after a couple passes. We finally figured out a guy in the control tower at the airport was ratting us out.

East LA was a no-go even in the 60's.

Agreed about the railroad police and definitely about East L.A. I had never had any problems with racism growing up. We kept our race plane in a hangar at the Compton airport. Local kids would climb the airport fence, hang out and learn about airplanes. One of the kids my age was graduating the sixth grade same as I was. He was so excited he was graduating! I askfed him where he was going to Jr. High. He told me nowhere, I'm graduating! My Dad and his Crew Chief took him home and talked this mother, they told her that they thought he was an intelligent young man that deserved the opportunity of an education. She wanted to know why did a couple of nosey white men cared about her son. They talked more and she kept her son in school. We eventually moved the racer to Van Nuys airport. Years later early in race week a black man my age came to the pit area and asked for my Dad, he went into the transporter trailer talked with him for a while. They both came out and came towards me. My Dad told me who he was, it was the kid I used to play at the airport with, all grown up with a college degree and a job with the FAA. He had come to say Thank You to a nosey white man that changed his life as well as his brother and sisters lives.  So race never had been a thought for me. But 5 minutes into the experience of getting out of the car in East L.A. was a life changing moment, I found out that just because I didn't have an issue with anybody there did not mean that someone there didn't have a problem with a young 20 year old motor guy there with a big mouthed car owner/driver. Scared the Hell out of me. As I said, luckily I had met and talked with Big Willey in the San Fernando Valley on a few nights. He stepped in defused the situation with my big mouth friend, we put up our money, took the loss and went home. Never to return to East L.A.


John

13
The Lounge / Re: Street racing in California circa 1969-1970
« on: March 20, 2022, 01:27:54 AM »
My biggest years in street racing in the San Fernando Valley were 1978 through 1981, after that I was so busy with the Unlimited Air Racing that it was very sporadic.

The initial years I ran a couple of different Chevelle's with big blocks.

San Fernando road was really big primarily because where we raced was on the border between Devonshire Division and North Hollywood Division. The results was that we were so far out there that it was rare that the police would travel to the limit of their boundaries just for stupid people in hot rods. That all worked great until a new group started coming out more into beer and partying and causing mayhem than racing. They started throwing rocks at the train full of brand new cars from the Van Nuys Plant......Yeah, the feds showed up, had North Hollywood throw out a net and there was a major bust. Stupid punks throwing rocks at trains is a federal offense and the railroad police have power and NO sense of humor.

Canoga and Nordhoff from the Lumber City parking lot. The stupid thing there turned out to be that two police cars could trap everyone in the parking lot.

Sepulveda Blvd. right were it went on to the freeway if the police showed up you just went straight on the freeway and left the area.

The 118 freeway before it was opened both on the West end of the Valley and on the East end of Simi Valley.

Woodley by the Van Nuys airport.

The North end of Woodley just south of Rinaldi...that was a great spot until one night the Desk Sargent came out of Devonshire, shut us down and told us all, "I know I am not going to stop you hoodlums from drag racing on the streets. But I AM going to stop you from racing on this street"! He then explained that there was a judge from Van Nuys courthouse that lived a block away from where we were. That ended that because the judge called the Division and said "End this noise".

Winnetka by the drive in.

East L.A. scariest night if my life. We went down there to race a friend of mine's Chevelle I had done the engine for and we looked the car over and agreed to race. The guy said he was going to stop and put some slicks on......A different car same color but really different showed up and my friend started calling him a cheater. I told him to shut up and take the loss. Things were not good until Big Willey came over and recognized me and straightened everything out. My friend raced got his doors blown off and we paid $1,500 for the adventure. I never went street racing in East L.A. again.....ever.

There were other places but that was long long ago in a far off land.

I would like to say my respects for Officer Larry Ball who pulled me over many times, always was firm but nice. He was blown up defusing a bomb in 1986 and that made me realize that these officers really had more important things to do than chase us away from street racing.

I still love hot rodding, not a fan of street racing.


John

14
SAAC Forum Discussion Area / Re: GO RAMS!!!
« on: February 02, 2022, 01:46:58 PM »
Maybe the best, most exciting set of playoff games ever....

My friends and I were talking about that.  Ive been watching since I was a little kid and I don't ever recall seeing such great divisional games followed by such two amazing championship games.  Became a lifelong Cowboy fan, in an all Cincy fan house, while living in Detroit and now residing in LA.  I still don't know who Ill pull for. 

If the Bengals win at least it will be entertaining to watch all the instant Bengal fans crawl out of the woodwork.  They will finally be able to put away their Patriot, Seahawks, and Saints jerseys now.

Now that is funny, Sad but Funny.

15
SAAC Forum Discussion Area / Re: GO RAMS!!!
« on: February 02, 2022, 01:43:56 PM »
I grew up in the San Fernando Valley, a couple of times we would go to the colosseum to see the Rams play with my Dad. I noticed that most of the fans were having other discussions and generally distracted. By the 4th quarter the aisles looked like the game was over as everyone was trying to beat the traffic. As I got older I went with friends only to get the same impression. I thought that football fans were just.....blah...blah...blah.

Then the Oakland Raiders became the Los Angeles Raiders, (Traitors according to the Oakland fanbase) my best friend and I decided to go all in, we went to the pre-season game vs. the Green Bay Packers. The Colosseum was packed with fans from Los Angeles out to see the new team and also from the Oakland Raiders fans that came down from Oakland for the game. Oh! My! Gosh! This was a new level of football fans, something I'd never experienced before. Halfway through the first quarter there was a Packers fan halfway down the stands from us cheering his team. Someone from Oakland stood up yelled down at him to "Sit the "F" down or he was going to tear off his head and s#√π in the hole". My best friend looked at me and said "Well, it's a different fanbase now." Yep, everyone was there for a pre-season game until the end of the fourth quarter......not sure if it wasn't out of fear of the Oakland fanbase that travelled down.

Georgia Frontier left a bad taste in my mouth for the Rams and for years my favorite football team was "whoever is playing the Rams." Living in California, never liked the Chargers, never liked the 49ers, and eventually the Raiders fans scared the hell out of me.

Years go by we moved to Western Washington and I became a Seahawks fan. Even this year I watched all the games as we had a bummer of a year. Over the last few years I no longer hate the Rams, but don't love them either. Now my two favorite teams are the Seahawks and whoever is playing the 49ers (the only team the Hawks beat twice this year, YAY!). I thought for sure that Dallas would stop the forty whiners...nope. Next I was positive that the Packers would beat the whiners.... nope, dang! The Rams had been beat twice this year by the 49ers and they were my last dismal hope to keep SF out of the Super Bowl, sigh, I checked the score part way through whiners on top, Dang this is my nightmare coming true. Later that evening I find out that the Rams beat the whiners in the game that was move up or go home. So now I can say thank you to the Rams for preventing that outcome.


So to that I say "Go Rams!" For one game. But I think the Bengals will win.

Go Hawks!


John

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