SAAC Forum

Quote from: whiteykr on September 17, 2021, 05:46:21 AM
Scott,
You have some of the best 68 Shelby  people on here to consult with. I also offer my assistance if you need it.
Brad

I couldn't agree more.  Having talked with several of them yesterday! 

Thanks Brad

I just wanted to take a moment to thank a few members for talking with me today.

It was very helpful and exciting to learn about the apron number being present on the Passenger side too!   And yes, the last 4 digits were peaking out from the front fender.  They match the car's number and the photo from the driver's side taken at restoration. 

Nice to meet you folks.  😊

I'm trying to learn, like what happened with the Tilt-Away wheel concern.  I love that kind of thing!

I had a high level 428 CJ Cougar back in 2005.  I learned from that car that all 428 blocks did not necessarily get stamped on the back of the block.  But could be!

What I want to learn is how the panel dates can match or might not.

Quote from: shelbymann1970 on September 16, 2021, 11:02:14 AM

Quote from: Scott_Ales on September 16, 2021, 09:25:48 AM
I'm going to take another constructive shot at this...

What should a less knowledgeable but as passionate Shelby seller or representative of a seller do specifically to understand any car they are offering to the general market beforehand? 

Please do not just say call someone who knows.  I tried that...

A person accepted by the best here who are willing to get paid to physically come inspect a car.   
Can they be objective about a car without disgust for previous work or choices.  There's no need for emotions and opinions, just facts that can be supported with history and knowledge.

I was willing on this previous car, and am willing in the near future to try again.  With the caveat that what is important to me is rarely as important to others.  Which applies to everyone IMHO

There is one expert who is local to me in the Detroit area who has appraised Cobras, GT40s, Shelbys through SAAC. He also appraised the 2016 LeMans winning Ford GT for Ford motor company. getting back to the KR you sold. Many who have owned or have contributed here could possibly determine why some things were like they were on your car. Rebodies: There are many panels inside the car that date codes can be read easily. The sheet metal on any car should  have date codes that coincide with the cars build and other cars built at the same time. Your car missing the hole for tilt switch should be investigated. Was that A pillar replaced because of rust/accident? The hole filled in? Why no holes in the front apron for the tilt cannister. Again, was it a replaced panel? Some of the spot welds I saw tend to make me think some aprons were replaced. Buck tag never mounted on DS and no hole on pass side for it. If a rebody why would someone use a car with bad aprons? if indeed the welds I saw point to replacement aprons(date codes on those if present?). As a person who took the basket case shell of a 68 Shelby and did an investigation to see if it was a real car I have been through that before. Oh, Yeah, the knee pad thing is interesting. Again, date coded sheet metal as easy as looking at some of the trunk inner supports could confirm if the date codes are with in the realm of the car build. hope this helps. FYI there are a "FEW" rebodied early Shelbys running around and documented by SAAC. They bring a fraction of what a non rebodied car brings. Gary

Gary,

Please take a minute to read the tilt-away portion of the comments.  I learned so much from that experience and immediately documented there is a small divot right where that switch should be.  Under the paint.  The response by one of the BaT commenters seemed on target and made sense.  They are complicated contraptions to keep working and many have elected to replace them with tilt only versions. 

Take note of my initial response time of 11:09 pm Sept. 1st.  Then maybe read the exchange afterwards and through the next morning for additional insight to how I respond.

With regard to date coded panels.  Tell me where to look, and what panels you found unusual.  The car hasn't left our facility yet and I am curious.  Since I personally Dryce cleaned the entire underside, I was very impressed with what I saw.  Please consider also that I trained people in paintless dent removal in the late 1980s and have a keen eye still.  Even at 59. 

But mostly, I want to thank you for taking the time to communicate with me constructively.
 

Thanks, others may be at odds with me.  But I am not with them.  Everyone has something to contribute, how that is offered is sometimes off putting. 

Thank you for taking the time to share your perspective on the matter.  If you put yourself in any person's position be it a broker, dealer, family member, or not passionate corporate seller, you can certainly see the issue here.  No definitive source or process to pursue, unquantified costs needing case by case negotiation and potential availability challenges of multiple persons.  Some more than others on both points, and the difficulty of bias toward or against anything or anyone. Then there is the inter-member challenges where a person is chosen but some in the community question their knowledge or assessments.

It's a minefield. And regardless of your efforts over the past 45 years as a total gearhead and passionate brand person, your integrity WILL be challenged. 

I'm going to take another constructive shot at this...

What should a less knowledgeable but as passionate Shelby seller or representative of a seller do specifically to understand any car they are offering to the general market beforehand? 

Please do not just say call someone who knows.  I tried that...

A person accepted by the best here who are willing to get paid to physically come inspect a car.   
Can they be objective about a car without disgust for previous work or choices.  There's no need for emotions and opinions, just facts that can be supported with history and knowledge.

I was willing on this previous car, and am willing in the near future to try again.  With the caveat that what is important to me is rarely as important to others.  Which applies to everyone IMHO

Thank you Vern,

We trying to share something I have found very useful in a very open way. 

When should I show up for sentencing?

One of my more interesting observations through the years, loudest forum voices have no real names presented.

Thank you sir.

Quote from: shelbydoug on September 15, 2021, 08:42:14 AM

Quote from: Scott_Ales on September 15, 2021, 08:35:38 AM
So that's your reply? 

You don't want to create solutions, just keep things the way they are?

If that is the consensus, I will offer it in my next presentation.

Reached out to the most knowledgeable Shelby group for guidance after my last sale but they weren't interested to assist.

By the way, I'm not trying to win.

You seem to be looking for some sort of a medal? Save your effort. We don't do that here but we do know how to deal with trolls and if you keep pushing it you could be declared one and suffer the consequences.

You are not winning friends here. Don't you have something else to do?

You've made your position very clear, no need to vote more than once.  I'm hanging around for consensus.

Here's another one ...

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1967-shelby-gt500-6/

So that's your reply? 

You don't want to create solutions, just keep things the way they are?

If that is the consensus, I will offer it in my next presentation.

Reached out to the most knowledgeable Shelby group for guidance after my last sale but they weren't interested to assist.

By the way, I'm not trying to win. 

I'm still here reading...

Why?  It won't be the last Shelby I bring to market nor was it the first.  Did all this type of commentary occur when I was selling them 20 years ago for 1/4 the price?  I suppose it was.  The irony is, this EXACT mentality has happened so many times in my career I can't even count them. My former or still current world record results include, Riva wood boats, BMW M6, Lamborghini Countach, Mercedes 107 body conv., Military Humvees, various pieces of construction equipment, and many more. There is always a forum complaining about the new high sales result.  And it ALWAYS comes from the entrenched old guard.  Never the new to the space or freshly minted wealth persons.  As in, slow down there young man, not so fast. Let me tell you why you shouldn't buy that car or pay that much.  Put your dreams on hold and we'll find you a better car.  Or, join us over here where we are the guardians of the value world for all things Shelby.  We're the only ones who know and will flex when we want.  What some of you fail to respect is, not everyone is drinking your "Originality is more valuable" Kool-Aid.  All you have to do is look at the Resto-Mod market to see that. 

My craft is presentation.  I've made it a point to "Present" better than most of my competitors.  I've never shied away from valuable guidance and over the last 20+ years have happily paid for it when possible.  All I have EVER tried to do is present the facts. 

Take your attitude hat off for one moment and think this through.  What has this group done to offer guidance or knowledge before going to market?  Because I tried.  Is this the best you can do?  Grind the platform, seller, presenter, buyer to a pulp then throw in suspicion in the end to cap it off? 

If you want to be the great "Protectors" you claim, create a vetting solution.  Bitching and accusing is not a solution.  Here is my challenge, tell me specifically what you want me to do when the next Shelby lands in my care.  I understand the wealth of knowledge and value you have collectively on this brand.  But poke around a bit to discover how I have accomplished some unusual results in the presentation field. 

Open your minds and look for common ground and solutions.  The alternative isn't worth my time. 

Okay ladies and gentlemen, before you start torturing me...
Please understand that my first car was a 1971 Mustang Mach 1 bought in 1977 for $3,200.  351 C, 4 spd, AC, ram air, green with black sport int.  Then a 1975 Euro Pantera in 1983 for $16k, and then a 1978 F150 short box 4x4 for 1984.  So I'm a Ford guy all the way. 

I spent over 3 months preparing for this BaT offering.  I contacted two people in your direct community to fully understand what this car was.  Even paid one to come look at the car.  I won't name them, they know who they are.  One actually told me they knew the history but never got back to me what they knew.  I finally gave up.  Did the best I could with what I could find alone. 

I stated early in the commentary this was an OVER restored car.  You folks use the term "Concours" where I believe you would be better served saying "Judged".  The level of finishes on this car are absolutely WAY past factory.  I have a close friend from Iowa who has an original 1969 Mustang Mach 1 his father bought new.  I know what they should look like. 

The bizarre reality in reading this thread is the complete disregard for resto-mod Shelby cars that bring $300k and more.  Do you see that originality desire is an experience for some not all?  If you want a documented original car, then buy it.  If you want a different ownership experience and find those buying opportunities are fewer, you have to pay more.  I'm certain we all agree different people desire different things and experiences.  The person that bought this car had a black/black KR on his bucket list for a very long time.  Are you really going to disparage his acquisition because it doesn't fit your desires?  Just because he isn't interested in judging?

Why don't you folks spend some energy offering an objective vetting process for those like myself who would be happy to pay for it before offering a car?  Instead of armchair complaining how the rest of the world is wrong.  Or worse, accusing me of shill bidding.  My passionate car wife of 40 years and I found that incredibly offensive and distasteful.   Especially coming from Ford people.  We've been nothing but champions for the brand these past 40+ years.