SAAC Forum

To Honker:

I think your posted photo is from the Tucson races....

To Richstang:  Here's a link to the "blueprint schedule" you mentioned....also a poor copy (jpeg)(need to scroll down the page to see the blueprint):

https://www.drivingline.com/articles/davey-jordan-and-the-shelby-toyota-2000gt/

I think this is the tentative schedule noted in the "blueprint schedule"....the ones in the boxes and arrows are the ones most likely attended:

Las Vegas-February 24-25, 1968-Southern Pacific Division
Willow Springs-March 9-10, 1968-Southern Pacific Division
Tucson-March 30-31, 1968-Southern Pacific Division
Stuttgart-April 20-21, 1968-Midwest Division-blueprint shows this as an added race in hand drawn box
Kent-May 18-19, 1968-Northern Pacific Division
Road America-June 15-16, 1968-Central Division
Orange County International Raceway-June 22-23, 1968-Southern Pacific Division-blueprint shows this as an added race that is hand written in...I don't know if this race happened on that particular date.  There was a Scca National race on the following weekend (June 29-30 at Orange County).
Lime Rock-July 6-7, 1968-Northeastern Division
Bridgehampton-July 20-21, 1968-Northeastern Division
Riverside-August 3-4, 1968-Southern Pacific Division
Mid Ohio-September 7-8, 1968-Central Division-blueprint shows this event is just circled
San Diego-October 19-20, 1968-Southern Pacific Division-I think this race was cancelled and rescheduled to happen at Phoenix instead on the same date though on the Scca National schedule (although crosslinking with another site has this event happening on the 12-13th of October....so you might want to check that date also).
Riverside ARRC-November 22-24, 1968-

Many of the internet articles mention that the Toyotas were also raced at War Bonnet and Odessa...no dates are listed.  The Scca National schedule for the Odessa National (Southwest Division) race September 14-15, 1968 and the War Bonnet Scca National on September 1-2, 1968 or October 5-6, 1968.  The following link shows a photo from the San Diego Stadium National race (possible date as July 20-21 (this interferes with the Bridgehampton race) or the Regional race on October 5-6.

http://johnstraub.blogspot.com/2011/03/toyota-2000-gt-day-japan-broke-mold.html

There are no noted races in the Southeastern Division, which would mean that the Toyotas did not race in all "7" divisions during 1968, unless your research shows otherwise.

Here's a link to the final race of the season results for C-Production at Riverside ARRC-November 1968:

http://virhistory.com/cars/arrc/scans/68-res-2.jpg

The above mentioned sites are mostly free....If you are looking for coverage in "Competition Press and Autoweek" you might want to contact Allen Brown: allen@oldracingcars.com  his collection of Autoweek and several other Motorsport magazines, SCCA club magazines is quite large, but he also charges a fee for research.  As you probably know, many official SCCA records have been lost over the years, through moves, floods, etc...and many other publications going in to the later 1960's only covered the top finishers of each class.  The best luck that I've had with the IMRRC is working with Bill Green...I've had good results just on doing the driver searches.  What you are going to be looking into are SCCA National events.....not necessarily Regionals as noted in the Hagerty article about BRE.

Your best bet is to contact the International Motor Racing Research Center: https://www.racingarchives.org/ 

You can have them do a driver's search on both Scooter Patrick and Davey Jordan, or manufacturers search on the Toyota 2000 GT....1968 season, C-Production Toyota 2000 GT to be more specific.

Your second option is to join on to one of the newspaper archives sites (two of them are currently running free 7-day trials) and use similar search inquires (Shelby American, Toyota 2000 GT, Scca 1968, etc.): Newspaperarchive.com or Newspapers.com

You might want to check out this site if you haven't yet:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/643368829056155/

CSX3339

The #33 GT350 is 5R102 driven by Dan Gerber since Bob Johnson was in a Daytona Coupe at Le Mans on the same weekend as the June Sprints at Road America.

Correct Sundude (2137, not 2136)....it was late last night...and I fixed it.

I'm not going to go through the process of posting all of the old photos again but I'll present all of the facts known about both Cobras (2137 and 2142) during a specific time period (September 1963-December 1963).

2137: owned and raced by Shelby American Inc., Le Mans spec bodywork (FIA hood scoop, enlarged side vents, rear hinged shortened trunk lid), standard front fender flares with side spats, rear enlarged fender flares, 6 1/2" and 7 1/2" Halibrand Kidney Bean magnesium wheels, 3" full length side exhausts on both sides, Raydyot side rear view mirror, center support for the windshield (attaches to the top of the cowl and to the top of the windshield), single hoop roll bar mounted through the rear bodywork, exterior color black at last race under SAI (October 13, 1963-LA Times GP-Bob Bondurant at the wheel....sustained damage to the driver's side rear fender flare).

2142: run under the John Willment Autos Ltd. banner, Le Mans spec bodywork (FIA hood scoop, enlarged side vents, rear hinged shortened trunk lid), standard front fender flares with a thin aluminum fender lip extensions attached to the lower trailing edge of the fender lips (these were added at Le Mans to cover the wheel offsets not fitting under the stock flares-a rules infraction), rear fender flares were unmodified and stock in profile and shape with thin aluminum fender lip extensions attached to the lower leading edge of the fender lips (also a necessary modification done at Le Mans to cover the wheel offsets not fitting under the stock flares), 6 1/2" Dunlop magnesium front and rear wheels, dual non-full length exhausts on both sides (Willment Team modification done after Le Mans), no rear view side mirrors, no center support for the windshield, no roll bar or holes cut in the bodywork for one, number lights located on the sides of the front fenders on both sides for night time racing and identification, a bug deflector mounted across the top of the hood and hood scoop, exterior color of white with two thin dark blue stripes front to back at Le Mans (June 1963).  Once the ownership changed from Ed Hugus/SAI to John Willment the front of the nose stripes changed to the traditional Willment stripes (triple and color change to red instead of the dark blue).  2142's last race in England was the Snetterton 3-Hour enduro at the end of September of 1963 before it was to be readied and shipped off to South African Springbok races (November 1963-early January 1964).

October 1963 Ford of France had no Cobras in their stable and the Tour de Course and the Criterium des Cevennes were just around the corner (late October through mid-November).  So SAI had just finished the Riverside LA Times GP (mid-October 1963) and they were planning to attend the Hawaii races at the end of October 1963...the problem was which cars would we take for the two drivers that we have in our stable (Ken and Dave)?  The possibilities were 2127, 2136 and 2137....2127 (Gurney's Cobra) escaped the Riverside races fairly clean, 2136 (Spencer's Cobra) had a fair amount of damage to the front grill area and the driver's front fender and headlight area were crushed and 2136 (Bondurant's Cobra) had some damage to the driver's side rear fender.  This is just a guess....but Ford of France got in contact with SAI inquiring about a Cobra during this lull between upcoming races.  How they picked which cars were to be fixed and for which drivers is something I don't know about, but there was a color change in the works for the Cobras (2127 and 2136) that were scheduled to be readied for the Hawaiian races....and since they were to be repainted "Princess Blue" what would stop them from fixing the damaged bodywork on 2137 and also painting it "Princess Blue"?   All of this work and planning must have been competed in the first week after the Riverside LA Times GP so both sets of Cobras could be air freighted to their destinations in time (Hawaii and Paris, France) for the upcoming races.    The latest edition of the leaf spring Cobra Registry also notes that 2137 was lent to Ford of France for a short period of time.  Here is also some interesting news that was in Motorsport magazine covering the November 1963 Tour de Course race: J. Schlesser "only had a limited number of wheels, after his spares were held up in a Paris airport by a customs strike."  Schlesser went through all of the set of wheels and had to change tires on a few of the wheels since he didn't have extras (lost lots of time on the race due to tire issues).  Later one of the wheels got loose and while he was fixing it, the jack slipped and went through the bodywork.  Now during this time the Ford of France Cobra was Princess blue and 2142 was racing in South Africa and was still white.  (You can't be on two different Continents racing the same Cobra in different colors at the same time?  2142 still had the same Le Mans bodywork and white exterior paint (#6) at it's first South African race at Kyalami at the end of October 1963 through early November.  2142's next several races in South Africa during November and December it sprouted "modified" rear fender flares to now cover the 8 1/2" Halibrand FIA mags and an opening cut in to the front lower valance for more cooling and it was still painted white.  The fender flares that Ned keeps talking about and showing in the same photos didn't happen until later in 1964/1965 when the ownership of 2142 was transferred from John Willment to Ford of France.   

SunDude's photo of the Ford of France Cobra (October 1963) in what looks to be a black and white version of "Princess Blue" (I did post color photos on the old SAAC Forum showing that this particular Cobra was blue), Raydyot side mirror, Le Mans hood scoop and side vents, front fender spats, flared rear fenders, 3" full length side exhaust, center windshield support, single hoop roll  bar and Kidney Bean wheels looks to be suspiciously like 2137 not like 2142, which was still white during this time and under John Willments stewardship?

Ned is incorrect....this particular Cobra was discussed, backed up with several photos in the original SAAC Forum before it crashed....and we all agreed to the fact that the #85 Cobra at the November 1963 Tour de Course in Corsica and #84 Cobra at the November 1963 Criterium des Cevennes is CSX2137, not CSX2142.

Quote from: honker on May 09, 2020, 09:37:14 AM
I posted this in the random car pictures thread  earlier, thought it relevant here as well.

Paddock '68 Nurburgring 1000kms,  '67 or '68 Mustang behind also.   CSX ?

Mike

It's COB6041.

At the Bridgehampton Double 500 on September 20, 1964....several Cobras sprouted the "double exhaust" configuration: 2513, 2290, 2558 and 2557.  2430, Tom Payne's Cobra, ran the same exhaust in 1965....at least during the Mosport Players 200.  The reasoning behind the dual side exhaust (just a guess here)...might of had to do with what Shelby American had learned from testing the Daytona Coupe and it's version of the dual exhaust as in relation to high speed tracks (better breathing at higher RPM's?).  Unfortunately, I don't have any under hood shots of the headers, but I could guess that the double side exhaust featured 2-1 split headers (Daytona Coupe style) instead of the standard 4-1 headers that were used on most competition Cobras.

It's 2345....

The FIA cars had standard windshield assemblies and the USRRC cars could run the "smaller wrap around windshield."  Both FIA and USRRC cars ran the quick jacks front and rear (these replaced the standard bumpers).  The mag wheel sizes for both FIA and USRRC were usually 6 1/2" fronts and 8 1/2" rears (some were delivered with 7 1/2" rears, although 2431 did have a custom built set of American Racing wheels that were wider in the rear).  Both models, FIA and USRRC ran weber carbs.....brakes were the same on both (there is a note that at least one of the later built USRRC Cobras was run with street style brakes since it was to be run in SCCA A-Production).  2431 had adjustable A-arms and other special suspension parts.  Also, 2431 is noted to have experimented with vented disc brake rotors.  Most of the FIA and USRRC models also had front and rear brake scoops.  Both the FIA and USRRC seemed to run the top spec 289 race engine (usually around 380-390 HP, or more).  Side pipes varied from single to dual exit (at least on one USRRC Cobra).  I'm sure that I'm missing a few other details that the others will chime in and fill in the blanks.

Quote from: jguyer on April 22, 2020, 11:15:37 AM
For your consideration, one from 1967, one from 2011. Note: not the same cars/drivers/locations.

Is the 1967 photo from the June or August Waterford Hills races?