SAAC Forum

I know a couple of people who have installed those. Good idea.

John

Quote from: JohnSlack on December 09, 2023, 10:39:19 PM

Quote from: shelbydoug on December 09, 2023, 09:21:44 PM

Quote from: gt350shelb on December 08, 2023, 10:34:40 AM
damn doug did you sleep last night 

Well...depends? There's sleep and then there's sleep.

I'm not sure why even a race car would need that much pump shot. That is really a throttle response "thing".

You know, all this talk of the "drivers" blowing up the TP's at 9,200 is kind of silly.

IF you ever actually witnessed one of those Trans Am races with the team drivers, you might come to the conclusion that it was an attempted mass suicide? 8,000 rpm was NOTHIN'! They drove the cars like the winner was the one who blew the car up first 'cause they were all tryin' their best to go boom.

The key here is that manifold and now what you can flow on today's heads.


As I said, in switching to the T/A intake from the "turd", the idle vacuum dropped and so far, I can't get it to idle down to 750 like before with 15 inches. It wants 1,100. It may be the intake characteristics.
It is kinda' unique?

It came before tunnel rams existed but has tunnel ram characteristics without looking like one?

I'll get it right. It doesn't keep me from sleeping. Don't worry about that. Yea I sleep last night.

shelbydoug, did I miss the picture of the intake manifold you are talking about? After all I showed you mine before.

The first picture is of the not used 1969 Standard Flange Holley BOSS 302 Intake Dual Plane Intake Manifold - From FoMoCo to Smokey Yunick to Roy Richards to Me - NOS

The second picture is of the latest version of the 1969 BOSS 302 Dual Dominator Intake Independent Runner Intake Manifold From FoMoCo to Shelby American to Wayne Richards to Me to Scott Thomas back to Me - NOS

The third picture is of the 1970 Bud Moore Mini-Plenum for the BOSS 302 From Bud Moore to Rick Kirk to Me - NOS

John

Side views, Note the Standard flange T/A 2x4 and the Dual Dominator are the exact same height.

Quote from: shelbydoug on December 10, 2023, 07:57:04 AM
Yours is so little.

Mine is just another C6OA. No biggie.


I don't know why the pictures are posting so large? It's too early to battle with the computer. I'm just letting it win for now.

Sorry. Mine really isn't bigger then yours.

I changed the pictures and made them larger, I also added two of it's friends since this thread is Technical Section T/A details

Quote from: shelbydoug on December 09, 2023, 09:21:44 PM

Quote from: gt350shelb on December 08, 2023, 10:34:40 AM
damn doug did you sleep last night 

Well...depends? There's sleep and then there's sleep.

I'm not sure why even a race car would need that much pump shot. That is really a throttle response "thing".

You know, all this talk of the "drivers" blowing up the TP's at 9,200 is kind of silly.

IF you ever actually witnessed one of those Trans Am races with the team drivers, you might come to the conclusion that it was an attempted mass suicide? 8,000 rpm was NOTHIN'! They drove the cars like the winner was the one who blew the car up first 'cause they were all tryin' their best to go boom.

The key here is that manifold and now what you can flow on today's heads.


As I said, in switching to the T/A intake from the "turd", the idle vacuum dropped and so far, I can't get it to idle down to 750 like before with 15 inches. It wants 1,100. It may be the intake characteristics.
It is kinda' unique?

It came before tunnel rams existed but has tunnel ram characteristics without looking like one?

I'll get it right. It doesn't keep me from sleeping. Don't worry about that. Yea I sleep last night.

shelbydoug, did I miss the picture of the intake manifold you are talking about? After all I showed you mine before.

The first picture is of the not used 1969 Standard Flange Holley BOSS 302 Intake Dual Plane Intake Manifold - From FoMoCo to Smokey Yunick to Roy Richards to Me - NOS

The second picture is of the latest version of the 1969 BOSS 302 Dual Dominator Intake Independent Runner Intake Manifold From FoMoCo to Shelby American to Wayne Richards to Me to Scott Thomas back to Me - NOS

The third picture is of the 1970 Bud Moore Mini-Plenum for the BOSS 302 From Bud Moore to Rick Kirk to Me - NOS

John

Quote from: gt350shelb on December 09, 2023, 11:05:08 AM
the list numbers on the  carbs on my intake are 4224 s
from holley web site :



Barrels   4
Booster   Straight
Brand      Holley
CFM   660
Choke   None
Emission Code   3
Finish   Gold Dichromate
Fuel   Gasoline
Fuel Inlet   Single
Material   Zinc
Model   4160
Primary Main Jet   76
Primary Pump Nozzle Size   25
Product Type   Carburetor
Secondaries   Mechanical
Secondary Pump Nozzle Size   25
Supercharged Application   No
Throttle Bore   1.688 inch
Vacuum Ports   1 timed (spark) port, 1 full, and 1 PCV port
UPC   090127000588
Part Number   0-4224

https://www.saacforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=24980.0;attach=119015;image

The huge difference that the Droste carburetors have over the standard 4224 Holley 660 center squirter is the phased progressive linkage on the secondary side. This allows the secondaries to be brought in slowly instead of 1:1 bringing them in like a drag car. You get some low RPM drivability with this feature. People can modify the slot in the 660, However if you look at the pictures you can see that the opposite side of the cam slot for the roller to react to has a bump to close the secondaries as well. This feature is important, especially on a road race car.


John

Quote from: TA Coupe on December 07, 2023, 11:25:24 PM
Pictures of original TA carburetors which I believe are 525C. F. M which John Slack now owns. It also shows the special linkage.
Scott, Do you have any comment on the exhaust flow on 68 hypo 289 heads? Which I read or was told flowed better than the other Exhaust ports because of the D shape.

       Roy

Roy,

I believe that those carburetors are in the 495 to 525 CFM arena. I am very happy to own them and as you know they will be finding their home on the BOSS 302 standard flange Holley T/A intake in my 1969 BOSS 302. I digress, Harold Droste reworked those carburetors at Holley for FoMoCo to use in the 1968 T/A Tunnelport program according to my conversations with Randy Gillis. Randy was very interested in the Harold Droste carburetors and similar carburetors were used at Lemans. Those carburetor had Droste serial numbers that fell on both sides of carburetors the Randy had in his possesion and had run on his big Tunnelport engine. The Carburetors have 1.250" primary and secondary venturis with 1.495" primary and secondary throttle bores. The cam slots in the linkage were custom ground by Droste to give a softer secondary opening phase. They are very nice carburetors. the only truly vintage downside is the air horns were milled off at some point. Randy said that he had found several of those carburetors complete and in pieces at the Pomona and Long Beach swap meets over the years



John

Bunkie Knudsen's KK1215 BOSS 429 prototype.

The Ultimate treasure to have!


For a 69-70 BOSS guy


John

Quote from: gt350shelb on November 26, 2023, 04:04:52 PM

There is some beautiful metal fabrication right there.

John

Quote from: deathsled on October 02, 2023, 03:12:04 PM
SAAC covers Shelbys well beyond 1970 to include new ones.  It is my contention that the Boss 302 sub forum should allow for 2012-2013 Boss 302s as well.  And may I supplement that Boss 302s are not Shelbys (unless we are looking at the 1969 Trans Am cars) so perhaps the Boss 302 sub forum should be deleted altogether to keep the forums consistent.

Being primarily a 1969-1970 BOSS 302 guy in my current ownership position I have to admit that on occasion I myself have wondered about the 2012-2013 guys posting here. However as has been brought to attention here, I am in the cheap seats by invitation because SAAC has provided the sub-forum so why not. I have joined SAAC even though I don't have the SAAC Member little avatar badge so I continue to understand that I exist in this realm as a space available passenger.

I am however cautious to not overly discuss Corvettes sinking in Florida or any other multitude of other items that seem like a device to just increase the post count.

However if it were not for Deathsled's posts this sub forum may only get used for a trash can. So being a 1969-1970 BOSS guy I am happy to read and see his posts.

John

Glyptal is actually very good at porosity issues with aluminum and magnesium castings. The biggest point with Glyptal application is cleaning the base metal prior to application. Correct application has proven in my experience to be effective against porosity in the castings even in high heat usage where the oil temperature exceeded 90-95°C on the final laps.


John

Quote from: Jbrooks on October 19, 2023, 07:50:54 PM
You guys were right to recommend sending it to Drew. Just got the carb back on the car and I have zero issues. Drew did a great job, so thank you everyone for recommending him.

Because he is that good!


John

Smokey wrote a great article on windage in "Circle Track" magazine years ago (1980's something) I couldn't find it last night. Anyway windage is not just a horsepower loss, it is a temperature changer, an efficiency robber and oil aerating monster as well that street cars can benefit from. The specialized windage trays that we had developed for the Packard/Rolls Royce Merlin were a highly guarded secret.

Here is some information from Canton;

https://blog.cantonracingproducts.com/blog/windage-how-it-affects-your-motor

Quote from: 6s1640 on October 06, 2023, 10:23:31 PM
Hi John, Coralsnake and TLea,

Thank you for your input.  Most of my experience has been with the small block windage tray.  The two designs are very different, but must work on similar principles.  I now see how the rotating crank and rods will throw the oil to the passenger side and into the slotted holes.  That makes sense now.  My goal was mostly to just ad a period Day 2 performance part to the build.  I have no plans to race, so its probably overkill.

Thank you

Cory

"Most of my experience has been with the small block windage tray."

Cory,

If I can remember I'll get to my storage unit and bring one of my Bud Moore small block windage trays to a WASAAC meeting for you to see.


John

Send it to Drew.

Quote from: 6s1640 on October 05, 2023, 03:53:26 PM
Hi all,

I'm putting together a 428 Cobra Jet and have a windage tray for an FE.  Looking at the tray in the pan compared to an oil pan without, I'm not sure it really offers any benefit. The 428 Cobra Jet oil pan does have some internal baffling.  Also the tray looks like it could actually trap more oil above the tray, with no slope to drain oil, defeating the purpose of the tray. I'm thinking of not installing it.  Any thoughts?

Cory

Cory,
If you look at the scooping effect along the right side of the picture of the windage tray you can see that the scoops are designed to capture the oil and scrape it away from the spinning connecting rods. That oil is drained down the area between the oil pan and the outside of the windage tray where gravity moves the oil towards the sump. Is it a great windage tray by today's standards? Probably not however for your usage it will be fine. It will control oil away from the spinning crankshaft and reduce the windage in your crankcase. Could that be modified to improve your results? Sure, however what is your goal?


John