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Benny,
You'll never get steered wrong by Randy. The man is an amazing wealth of experience and knowledge.
Thanks Randy, so it's fair to say I have an early production Shelby tach with correct rev & red line needles with upper Cobra? I really appreciate your input.6S477 has the same "top logo" tach and a "stainless' cup ( now I believe from an over the counter version) and a conventional mounting bracket that has been chrome plated. With only one owner between Hertz and me , I believe the second owner did this. I plan on painting both back to wrinkle black in the future. I have never seen any proof that chrome cups were installed on them by SAI. "I" did the one on 6S240 when I owned it because I liked the look.
Hi Randy, based on what you've said would it be fair to say the tach I have is the "over the counter version" & not the black wrinkle type directly installed buy Shelby American into 1966 GT350's?
Benny,
"I" do not believe the "top logo" was "ever" available over the counter. Production only. OTC tachs were "bottom logo" and the logo was usually larger in diameter. The "top logo tachs have never been reproduced , HOWEVER , there are some "overlay stickers" out there that "could" convert one. I do not believe this is the case with yours as the needle and red line needle are correct for an assembly line "early" tach.
Others may have a different opinion/ experience and i welcome additional input.
Randy
Hi Bob, thanks for your input & words of wisdom but I'll leave the tach in its OTC state. Although its not as desirable as assembly line black wrinkle tachs the OTC version in its own way, is still unique. I appreciate your input & thank you for your time, cheers.The only difference between the over the counter 9K tach and the assemblyline tach is the finish on the cup. You can easily refinish the chrome cup in the wrinkle black finish. It is more desirable that way. 99.9 % of people looking for the Cobra tachs want them the way they came from Shelby American. They early face style is the hardest to find and sells for the most $.That's an original Shelby tach for a 1966 GT350. And it's the early verion with the Cobra logo on top. Yes, the stainless/chrome cup usually indicates an OTC part. But once you put it inside a black wrinkle cup with a proper mounting bracket, no one will be able to tell if it's OTC or as installed at SA. Very nice tach!Hi Steve, thanks for letting me know its an early version OTC Shelby Tach for a 66 GT350. I'll leave the stainless/chrome cup in the original condition its in. Knowing its OTC, allows me to buy an original unrestored wrinkle black Shelby GT350 tacho, I just need to wait until one comes onto the market for sale, cheers.
Steve
That's an original Shelby tach for a 1966 GT350. And it's the early verion with the Cobra logo on top. Yes, the stainless/chrome cup usually indicates an OTC part. But once you put it inside a black wrinkle cup with a proper mounting bracket, no one will be able to tell if it's OTC or as installed at SA. Very nice tach!Hi Steve, thanks for letting me know its an early version OTC Shelby Tach for a 66 GT350. I'll leave the stainless/chrome cup in the original condition its in. Knowing its OTC, allows me to buy an original unrestored wrinkle black Shelby GT350 tacho, I just need to wait until one comes onto the market for sale, cheers.
Steve
6S477 has the same "top logo" tach and a "stainless' cup ( now I believe from an over the counter version) and a conventional mounting bracket that has been chrome plated. With only one owner between Hertz and me , I believe the second owner did this. I plan on painting both back to wrinkle black in the future. I have never seen any proof that chrome cups were installed on them by SAI. "I" did the one on 6S240 when I owned it because I liked the look.
.
I believe the story in the Registry says all it needs to in order for anyone to arrive at a rational conclusion as to the fact that 3232 was severely wrecked and ended up eating resurrected from essentially its paperwork, albeit using what appears to have been a genuine Cobra chassis which was presumably renumbered. As to the legal aspects of the Registry and the facts it attempts to lay out, I will only say that I and the other Registrars do our utmost to present correct details, hence none of us are afraid to appear in court to defend our printed statements. Fortunately, we have prevailed whenever we have been dragged into court by an owner who felt wronged by the facts.Thanks for your comments Ned & firm stance on correct details no matter how an owner may feel.
What's clear in my mind, is todays CSX3232 isn't the Cobra that left Shelby American in April of 1966. That's the perspective I'll take when looking at Shelby's. Thank you for the extra photos.Concerning the SAAC definition around "Present Condition", is it considered fair to call CSX3232 a "wrecked, parted out & reconstructed" or Destroyed, parted out & reconstructed Cobra? I'm asking the question based on photos & notes from the World Registry of Cobra's website & 4th Edition book & the attached photo.
I believe this is the same Destroyed Cobra.,...….
I think that if you, me, we are using a car like CSX3232 as an example, then there are several things to consider.
Certainly in the case of the comp cars, more then one have been completely re-created from the "remains" of the original. Many have been resold and personally I haven't heard of any "fraud" lawsuits involved.
It doesn't seem to be limited to original Comp Cobras that new purchasers accept the current existing car as they would the original and continue to race it?
So reconstructions of a twisted basket case race car seems to be more acceptable then a street car? It should also be noted that it may in fact be the SAAC Cobra Registry that coined the phrase, "air car", i.e., one that is constructed completely out of thin air, not even an original bolt.
Having said that, what is the acceptable level of replacement on a wreck like this? Records are attempted to be kept and the decision is up to the potential new purchaser?
It may even be a legal fact, that legally if you own the "title" in some way to a vehicle, that you have the car? I'd need a legal opinion on that but this potentially could be somewhat of a "thorny point" on the "Morrison 500", not to insult or accuse Brett of anything at all since he owns that California Registration. That's another subject though.
When I mentioned a car to our Cobra Registrar, and it might have been this one, his reply to me was "I want you to be aware that what you are looking at is not the car that left Shelby American". I think that says a lot if not all, so anyone interested in buying an "original" Cobra has to make a determination of how satisfied they are with what the car currently is?
Your last paragraph sums it up nicely, its not the car that left Shelby American & the individual needs to determine how satisfied they are with the car & its history. I like the style of the Cobra Registrar.
You will like Ned. He's a great guy. We call him the Scud missile.
It may even be a legal fact, that legally if you own the "title" in some way to a vehicle, that you have the car? I'd need a legal opinion on that but this potentially could be somewhat of a "thorny point" on the "Morrison 500", not to insult or accuse Brett of anything at all since he owns that California Registration. That's another subject though.I still have some titles of cars I junked in the late 60s. We'd drive around and buy junkers for $10-15 and take them direct to the scrap metal dealer for $45. Those cars no longer exist so the titles are worthless unless someone is willing to commit a felony by stamping the VIN on another car. At that time a quirk existed in CA law. If I sold a car to a junkyard I was required to give them the title (or statement as to why I didn't have it). That title went to the state and was cancelled showing the car as junked. A scrap metal dealer was not required to obtain a title. The scrap yard was paying about $20 more per car than a junkyard. Those cars were being sent as scrap metal to Japan. If I had the title to a car and someone else had possession of the car the courts would have to figure out that one.
I know of at least one case where a person borrowed money from another SAAC member and gave them the title to their 65 GT350 as collateral. Hard times continued and he sold the car with a duplicate title he got from DMV after saying he had lost the original. In DMVs eyes the original title was now worthless as it had been replaced with a new one. It's hard to say what a court would find. The seller committed fraud. The person who loaned the money did not protect their interest by filing a lien with DMV and being listed as legal owner on the title.
The registration from Morrison's car is nothing more than a Rock and Roll or Shelby collectible. It has zero value as to the ownership of the car - only the title matters. Every year CA DMV issues new registration paperwork along with your tag. If someone was able to get into the DMV archives and check they would probably find that the Morrison car was junked. One interesting point is that CA DMV closed their doors to their historical records when it was discovered that Cobras that had been junked in the 60s and 70s were turning up with fresh MSOs and being registered as original cars. The "Air Cobra" scheme only came to light when the original owner of one of the junked cars came forward. He had purchased and still had the wreckage of his 427 Cobra that he purchased new, totaled, surrendered the title to the insurance (who notified DMV car was destroyed) and then purchased the wreckage back from the insurance company. The owner of the aircar had it seized by the CHP and after all was said and done his $250,000 investment was turned into a $50,000 kit car with a CA assigned VIN. He had no recourse since it was an all cash purchase - of course with such a small circle of Cobra buyers/restorers/sellers it was easy to figure out who had access to DMV records, who had the ability to create a Cobra from a pile of tubing and aluminum sheet and who was the logical broker for the dead guys car. Yes all (rumored to be 28) air Cobras just happened to come from estates of dead people whose kids always demanded cash and to remain unknown.
I think that if you, me, we are using a car like CSX3232 as an example, then there are several things to consider.
Certainly in the case of the comp cars, more then one have been completely re-created from the "remains" of the original. Many have been resold and personally I haven't heard of any "fraud" lawsuits involved.
It doesn't seem to be limited to original Comp Cobras that new purchasers accept the current existing car as they would the original and continue to race it?
So reconstructions of a twisted basket case race car seems to be more acceptable then a street car? It should also be noted that it may in fact be the SAAC Cobra Registry that coined the phrase, "air car", i.e., one that is constructed completely out of thin air, not even an original bolt.
Having said that, what is the acceptable level of replacement on a wreck like this? Records are attempted to be kept and the decision is up to the potential new purchaser?
It may even be a legal fact, that legally if you own the "title" in some way to a vehicle, that you have the car? I'd need a legal opinion on that but this potentially could be somewhat of a "thorny point" on the "Morrison 500", not to insult or accuse Brett of anything at all since he owns that California Registration. That's another subject though.
When I mentioned a car to our Cobra Registrar, and it might have been this one, his reply to me was "I want you to be aware that what you are looking at is not the car that left Shelby American". I think that says a lot if not all, so anyone interested in buying an "original" Cobra has to make a determination of how satisfied they are with what the car currently is?
, cheers.
